massraider
Footballguy
We're getting actual concept cars now. It's really exciting.
Going to be a major leaning curve for me.
Going to be a major leaning curve for me.
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Electric Cars (Tesla and Others) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter WampusCat43
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I saw two Rivians the other day. The first was "Oh, look, a Rivian!" and then the second.... about an hour or so later.... "What? Another Rivian?!" Seems like there are more brands coming around all the time too but haven't seen many on the road. Our burb will have your occasional super car, sports cars, and luxury cars. Plenty of Tesla's which seemed to flood the area about 5 years ago or so. But the Rivian is the only other 'new brand' I have seen.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Wait.... you? Snarky? Surely, you must be kidding.No offense taken, because I am a snarky guy.
But I was being 100% genuine. Those headlights are brutal.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Same. The rest of the vehicle looks nice and then.... boom.... these gawd awful headlights.
Instinctive
Footballguy
It doesn't impact my thinking at all. I don't find it relevant.
(ETA: which isn't meant to kill the question or line of discussion, I just don't really have much more thought on it)
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
In case anyone reading this thread lives under a rock, Cybertruck deliveries tomorrow, starting at 3 PM EST. Includes release of specs and opening day pricing.
Livestream on X
Will update post if I find a non-X version. Possibly through ir.tesla.com, but the formal link currently leads to X.
Livestream on X
Will update post if I find a non-X version. Possibly through ir.tesla.com, but the formal link currently leads to X.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I had an issue with my new/used Rivian. I called the company and was on hold 3 minutes before someone picked up. They routed my call to the appropriate person who picked up in about 2 minutes. We discussed the issue and then hung up. 15 minutes later I get a call back from the same Rivian employee saying I discussed our call with another colleague and they had another suggestion so they wanted to reach out and let me know.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'll be reading through this thread more soon, but just got a VW id.4
The whole EV/charging thing is something I'm going to have to learn. Especially with some road trips coming up.
Any specific tips, places to look (in this thread or elsewhere), etc would be appreciated.
The whole EV/charging thing is something I'm going to have to learn. Especially with some road trips coming up.
Any specific tips, places to look (in this thread or elsewhere), etc would be appreciated.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
PlugShare is a good app
Thanks. Can you elaborate on your buying process and why you chose that one?
gianmarco
Footballguy
Sure. It's a little complicated.
First, we have typically leased vehicles for the last decade plus. But, then Covid happened, the car market changed, inventory was short, so, consider that with the backdrop.
Ignoring my son's car which we got in June of 2022, we had 2 cars at that time. A sedan that was being leased and was ending in April, 2023 and a Hyundai Palisade that is a 4 year lease since Dec 21. The Palisade lease wasn't a great one, but given market conditions, we were lucky to even get a vehicle at that time. We love the Palisade, though.
Knowing how hard it was to get a car, I decided shortly after getting my son's car to put an order for a vehicle months ahead in the hopes we could get it in time the other lease was ending in April 2023. I figured 8 months was enough. We started considering EVs. I looked at quite a few, including Teslas, but since it was my wife that was going to drive it primarily, and she isn't the most tech savvy person, she just wasn't a fan of how tech involved it was. So, after looking at several other options, I had it narrowed down to the Kia EV6, the Hyundai Ioniq, and the VW id.4. I didn't like the way the Ioniq looked, the EV6 was almost impossible to get and even to order, so I decided on the VW id.4.
That order was place in early August, 2022. Things changed over the next few months when it became clear that it might not be ready in time for April (and, while we could get by with my son's car as well, I didn't want to have to deal with that), and I ended up getting lucky in being able to get the C8 I did. But, since the market was still crazy with markups for vehicles and inventory low, I just kept the order for the id.4. I figured I might be able to get it and flip it since they still didn't have any available on any lots, or, at least help the dealership out by getting them a car. They sold us my son's car without any markup and were one of the only dealers at that time NOT marking up cars.
Well, it just came in. Over a year later. And I had no intention on keeping it at this point, but with inventory back up, the dealer was offering it below MSRP plus the lease deal was taking off a significant amount due to being an EV (over $9K off the cost of the vehicle), plus my Palisade had some equity if I just gave it up to them and ended the lease early plus it's the Sign and Drive event so I even got a month off, so the financial of it made sense. The Palisade and VW are about the same in value of the cars, but I'm saving a considerable amount per month with this new lease and is more in line with terms I'm used to getting. So, I pulled the trigger.
Since this came up suddenly, I just haven't really looked into or researched EVs or about owning them in over a year. So here I am. The road trip issue is the biggest thing. But, we'll see how it goes.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I've driven a BMW i3 for the last 6 years; once you go electric you never go back. You are going to absolutely love your id.4. Enjoy!
gianmarco
Footballguy
So, just some questions/thoughts off the top of my head:
1) She doesn't have to drive much at all. Do we NEED a tier 2 charger for the house? I'm thinking of trying without to start and can always add. Realistically she won't really drive more than 200 miles in 2 weeks most of the time. Range on the model we got is just under 300.
2) So, how do charging stations work? Are they usually full? Do you reserve them? What's a good price? Are there any free options that are reasonable? We do get Electrify America for free however there's only a couple in our area and none of them are close (like 20-30 minutes away and not in directions we ever go).
3) For a road trip, how much extra time to allot? What if we get there and they are full?
4) I read briefly that Tesla is going to open up to non-tesla cars. Is this a good option? Can it be used now with some of those converters?
Driving the car isn't an issue and I like the way it feels. My biggest thing to learn is all about charging as you can see above: best ways to be efficient and be cost-effective.
1) She doesn't have to drive much at all. Do we NEED a tier 2 charger for the house? I'm thinking of trying without to start and can always add. Realistically she won't really drive more than 200 miles in 2 weeks most of the time. Range on the model we got is just under 300.
2) So, how do charging stations work? Are they usually full? Do you reserve them? What's a good price? Are there any free options that are reasonable? We do get Electrify America for free however there's only a couple in our area and none of them are close (like 20-30 minutes away and not in directions we ever go).
3) For a road trip, how much extra time to allot? What if we get there and they are full?
4) I read briefly that Tesla is going to open up to non-tesla cars. Is this a good option? Can it be used now with some of those converters?
Driving the car isn't an issue and I like the way it feels. My biggest thing to learn is all about charging as you can see above: best ways to be efficient and be cost-effective.
Thanks. Can you elaborate on that car and pros and cons? If you were to get another one today, what would you get?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
1. I don’t have a tier 2 charger at home. If she only drives 200 miles every two weeks you don’t need one. I charge mine for free at work but there are also level two chargers all over the place. Library has one, my kids school has two, grocery stores have them.
2. I’m not in a big city and there are free level two chargers all over the place. Fast charge you have to pay for.
the moops
Footballguy
How long of a road trip? For us, we just make sure to map out a grocery store or restaurant that is close by. So we just charge up while doing something productive
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Here's the problem with public charging, last weekend the prices on my trip ranged from free to about 90 cents per kilowatt. The Telsa superchargers at 36-38 cents per kilowatt are going to put you at 81 kw x .37 / 270 = .111 per mile vs $3 / .111 = 27 miles to the gallon. Not sure what your local power rate is, but we are 11 cents a kw. If you're not charging at home then an EV is going to cost more than an ICE. Also our local power company covers the cost to install home charging.
I'd only road trip in a Tesla right now. It will be huge when others can use the Telsa superchargers. With Tesla its a brief detour and 40 minutes, with others it can be well out of your way to charge and you're looking at an hour. I did several road trips this fall in a Telsa. Even then add 20% to your travel time, probably 30%+ for most other EVs. Only reason I did it was to see if I'd like an EV. Go rent a car for your road trip. Really that's the smart thing for both ICE and EV owners.
I've heard you can non-Tesla charge at some Tesla stations. Here's an article. https://www.consumerreports.org/car...rchargers-work-for-non-tesla-evs-a4713673565/
BassNBrew
Footballguy
https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bo...08224,-92.86830679831291&zoom=7&filters=party
Map of current Tesla superchargers open to non Teslas. It's bleak right now. That will change in 2024 as Elon wants more of the gov't dole.
Map of current Tesla superchargers open to non Teslas. It's bleak right now. That will change in 2024 as Elon wants more of the gov't dole.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Thanks for all this.
I do plan on charging at home. The only time I won't is if it's free while out locally or when we have to travel.
Over the next 4-5 months, we will take roughly 5-6 road trips that are about 3-4 hours in length, ~225-250 miles for most. Just long enough that I doubt we make it in one charge, especially during winter months. And since these are weekend trips during school with kids activities, time is always going to be precious and I can't risk running into an issue. So, just trying to plan ahead.
I figured it'll just cost us to charge during these trips, which defeats the purpose of the EV, but the rest of the time, it'll just be done at home.
gianmarco
Footballguy
You can see my response above, but these are 3-4 hour trips that are just at the limit or past the range.
Instinctive
Footballguy
So curves differ by car, but general principles:
1. A better route planner is an app that can show you a route with chargers before you leave
2. Plugshare is an app that has reviews and updates on charger availability and reliability
3. The lower "SOC" (State of Charge?) % the battery is, the faster it can charge. So, for example, if I'm willing to stop more on a 700 mile trip, I can take the car from 60% to 20% with more stops and spend less time charging.
4. The faster you go after like 45mph, the worse efficiency you get. Exponentially. Just something to be aware of, as it means 'the range" is usually around 70% of what "the range" is stated at.
the moops
Footballguy
You aren't charging your car for free at home though. Yes, it is almost always cheaper to charge at home, but the difference does in no way eliminate the purpose of getting an EV
gianmarco
Footballguy
Oh, I know. But charging at home is much cheaper than charging outside of home unless I can find a free charging station and, at prices I pay at home, it's the equivalent of 90-100mpg.
You aren't charging your car for free at home though. Yes, it is almost always cheaper to charge at home, but the difference does in no way eliminate the purpose of getting an EV
So, what I meant was that I wasn't going to just look to charge outside of the house. I was responding to BnB statement that not charging at home makes it more expensive than an ICE and he's right. And the only time I plan to do that and pay for it is on the these few road trips.
the moops
Footballguy
It only makes it more expensive if that is all you do though. If you are only doing it 5 or 6 times every 4-5 months that is not enough to offset the savings of charging at home the other 95% of the time
culdeus
Footballguy
For 1) it will pay for it in lower electricity cost at some point. Charging at 110V simply is less efficient.
2) 39c/kwh is about the baseline to expect. You can't reserve any that I know of. Some places have free charging. Don't rely on these unless at your workplace.
3) Use ABetterRoutePlanner.com to see what they suggest, it is usually spot on.
4) MagicDock is what you are after, these are very rare but would expect them to be reliable
List of Tesla Superchargers with magic docks installed
This list may get too long too fast, but at least for the moment I will attempt to compile a list of the Tesla Superchargers that have had magic docks installed. Please post a comment if you hear of any others. Site Location FCI thread TMC thread Turning Stone Resort Casino Verona, NY...
discuss.fastcharger.info
Seems to be maintained list of where magic dock exists. I know you can take NACS to CCS, but I don't know how that works or if I would trust it.
Nugget
Footballguy
I do a 270 mile one way trip from Lawrence to Ames quite regularly. I have taken my MachE, but I usually swap with my daughter. It takes about an extra 1-1.5 hours for the normally 4 hour drive. I usually charge for 45 minutes and it gets me 50-60%. Slows down often after I’m at 80%. There are places on my route that work, but they have been down and in use at times. I will lose up to 40% range between freezing temperatures and strong winds.
I found a fantastic charging station for free in Iowa City, and there are a couple that worked well in KC. My daughter takes the ICE vehicle to St. Louis - she isn’t confident in working the apps.
Highly recommend adding about 50% more time to the potential drive and mapping out different plans in case something goes wrong.
BlackCrowes
Footballguy
Nugget
Footballguy
Multiple. Ford has their own app that handles charging and billing. I have used the charge point app to verify if the chargers are operating - I’ve seen conflicting info. The free charger in Iowa city wanted to use some Shell app to get the charger started - even though there was no cost.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Tesla is non-union. I’m not sure the good old government in its current state has any interest in Musk. Quite the opposite.
culdeus
Footballguy
This is incentives for charging infrastructure that was part of the IRA.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I’m very intimate with the chips act, the IRA and the bipartisan infrastructure plan. We were instrumental in getting it passed.
Trust me- it ain’t for non-union companies.
(I’m good with that because it benefits my members but I’m just being real.)
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
@gianmarco Good advice above. I'll add two things. The first might be obvious, but if you can find free L2 charging near somewhere you go regularly that can be fantastic and the cheapest by far. Work, gym, etc.
But, still not a bad idea to put in an L2 at home. It may not be too difficult depending on how your home/garage/parking area is configured. Some dryer plug circuits can be used, etc. There is also a Federal Tax Credit like the EV credit that will cover up to 30% of the cost of the device and installation. You can buy a good L2 charger for around $400. I use and highly recommend this one. It can charge up to 48 amps hardwired or 40 amps through a 14-50 plug, which will require a 60 amp breaker. But, the cool thing is you can limit its output with the software if you can't support that much draw. Service to my garage is limited and not easily upgradeable so I limit it to 23 amps and it will charge my Mach E overnight just fine.
But, still not a bad idea to put in an L2 at home. It may not be too difficult depending on how your home/garage/parking area is configured. Some dryer plug circuits can be used, etc. There is also a Federal Tax Credit like the EV credit that will cover up to 30% of the cost of the device and installation. You can buy a good L2 charger for around $400. I use and highly recommend this one. It can charge up to 48 amps hardwired or 40 amps through a 14-50 plug, which will require a 60 amp breaker. But, the cool thing is you can limit its output with the software if you can't support that much draw. Service to my garage is limited and not easily upgradeable so I limit it to 23 amps and it will charge my Mach E overnight just fine.
massraider
Footballguy
Nugget
Footballguy
This is the exact same charger my parents have for their MachE. They bought it in December last year and are approaching 1700 miles.
I rent a townhouse and I do not have a L2 charger. I top off at my parents house when I visit (45 miles away) and I will occasionally use the chargers out our local sports park. I have spent a total of 36.32 on charging over the last 3 months outside of my house - I average about 1K miles a month on my MachE.
Nugget
Footballguy
Is there an estimate on number of deliveries today?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The current government isn't interested in EVs?
massraider
Footballguy
I have seen a few numbers, it's pretty clearly been stated it is not a full rollout.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Of course they are. It’s a ridiculously stupid idea. But that’s not what I said.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
It's similar to what you said. Musk is the pioneer and leader in EV technology. It's hard to embrace one without the other.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
You and I agree that makes sense. That isn’t what’s happening.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Same charger I have. Has worked great so far. Was worth getting it hardwired, IMO, vs used a 14-50. Lots of challenges if you use certain brands of 14-50 with overheating and melting so if you go that route make sure you get one of the ones that is actually industrial grade.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Not sure why you are being vague. Elon is going to make a boatload opening his chargers to other brands. Not sure if his chargers are union or non-union chargers, but that doesn't matter for him to cash gov't checks.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
This is such a weird take. Tesla built a massive, reliable charging network on their own dime. They offered to share access and the cost of expansion with other OEMs, but with no takers for years. Now only when the alternatives to the Tesla network have proven to be piles of crap and an impediment to the non-Tesla OEMs selling their EVs, they came back to Tesla to gain access to the charging network. Tesla has given them access with no royalty fee. Yes, Tesla will directly profit from charging those vehicles (and probably more importantly, lower their own costs to provide charging by adding volume to under-utilized charging stations).
At the same time, they will be further expand & improve the charging network with grant money from the IRA.
But to phrase this to imply that the goal is to suck at the Goverment teet is a gross misrepresentation.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
They should offer artificial exhaust that smells like a bakery.Saw one of the new Amazon EV trucks in my neighborhood. It’s whisper quiet and looks like a loaf of bread.
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
Agree with this. Not a rush, but plan to put in a charger if you are allowed to. Charging for free around town is great and definitely look for those opportunities. However, these options may not be as readily available in the future as more and more EVs are on the roads. Trickle charging is less efficient, but works fine if your usage is low. But, the peace of mind of being able to get a reasonable full recharge on a day when you do need some extended travel is worth it for the cost.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Very true. I prefer the 14-50 in my case because it opens up flexibilty of using that outlet for other things or using my stock charger if the main unit fails, etc. but your point is very valid.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
I agree with you here, but Telsa will be getting funding from the federal gov't. Steadymobbin22 was implying they weren't since they were non-union. I don't think the non-union has anything to do with the charger incentives.
Dan Lambskin
Footballguy
Also for those wanting to put in a L2 at home check with your electricity provider for any rebates. I believe in Michigan DTE offers a $500 rebate
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