Teenagers - A support thread (2 Viewers)

[Drunken knight]

I think this could go into one of three threads:

A couple of weeks ago, daughter (senior) started having major back pain and we have kept her home from school. It occurred around the time where i think it really hit her that next year she will be away. We are having frustrations getting her in for an MRI, as we are going through standard protocol (PCP-> specialist-> MRI). specialist did x-rays which did not turn up anything.

anyway... i think it is related to anxiety of dealing with app, scholarships, essays, research.
so, while i know we need to rebuild her confidence (very bright, good grades, athletic, etc) it is easier said than done

 

[ChiefD]

I think this could go into one of three threads:

A couple of weeks ago, daughter (senior) started having major back pain and we have kept her home from school. It occurred around the time where i think it really hit her that next year she will be away. We are having frustrations getting her in for an MRI, as we are going through standard protocol (PCP-> specialist-> MRI). specialist did x-rays which did not turn up anything.

anyway... i think it is related to anxiety of dealing with app, scholarships, essays, research.
so, while i know we need to rebuild her confidence (very bright, good grades, athletic, etc) it is easier said than done

As a parent I can tell you from going through this right now that I am experiencing the anxiety of all of the above for my son. He's pretty laid back but we've been navigating this process with him. He is a high school kicker and currently has (3) offers from some smaller private schools. Which means $$$$$$$. Which I don't have a ton of. But we will figure that part out.

But for me personally, I have coped in a couple of ways, which may help her and you guys. I'm sure you are doing some of this already.

1. Made a college spreadsheet on Google Sheets that we can all access. I listed the name of the school, if they have his degree, # of students, costs before and after scholarships (this stuff is readily available on each school's website), distance from home, etc. This has been nice to compare side to side what we are looking at. And us and him have been involved building this spreadsheet and doing the research. For my son it's allowed him to think through logistics of this.

2. Campus visits. The more the merrier. Different sizes. Takes a lot of the stress out of actually seeing and feeling what the campus and surrounding area is like.

Maybe for your daughter just sit down and talk if she is anxious about the whole process (I'm sure you have). But maybe go through the spreadsheet idea so she can just see things in front of her from a logistical standpoint. Instead of having all these "things that need to be done" stuff pinging around in her head.

So maybe your columns of the sheet are:

College
Location
Degree (Yes)
Number of students
Distance from home
Tuition
Room and Board
Misc Fees
Scholarships (you can use their College net cost calculator every site has. this number will be pretty close)
Net cost
Application due date
Application submitted (Yes/No)
Essay necessary (Yes/No)
Essay submitted (Yes/No)

Do this for EVERY college she is interested in.

I'm a visual learner - I need to SEE this stuff in front of me to truly get a grasp on what's going on. Your daughter may be the same way.

 

[Drunken knight]

parallel process. Very similar for us. Heading to Southern California in a couple of weeks to look at schools… hoping to connect with a few of our fbgs

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Started this because I know I’m not alone. We’re struggling a little with 16-year-old daughter right now. She is so incredibly witty, smart and funny, but also meaner than a Wolverine.

One minute we can be having a perfectly normal conversation and then something upsets her and the fangs come out.

I don’t know anything. Im a monster.

The straw that broke the camels back today was her telling me to “GTFO of my face”.

The older one was easy. This one struggles like I did with ADD/ADHD/Whatever so traditional parenting doesn’t have the same success. (Being strict doesn’t work).

We’re at a loss to be perfectly honest.

Totally normal. Our daughter (20) still has lots of days like this...

 

[jobarules]

When did this turn into the young adult support thread

 

[Ilov80s]

I was very worried this week. She has been fighting with what's essentially her only real friend. She bailed on all her other "friends" because she sees them as bad influences and really just people she drank/did drugs with and not actual friends. Well Thursday, she and her best friend basically ended their friendship. On top of that, Friday at her house was her cousin's big 21st bday party which was going to be a drunken mess. Her cousin and their friends weren't shy about giving her booze in the past. She was really worried she was going to break her 2+ month sober streak.

She stayed in her room and avoided all temptation, despite even her grandmother coming in drunk at 2 AM trying to give her a drink. We met up today and I helped her study for her math test. She did great there and told me she's thinking about trying a month without weed too. That's a big plus and something she's been hinting at for awhile. Also she gave me the whole I don't think you know what you've done means to me (I do) and I couldn't have done any of this if you hadn't believed in me and this is the best thing that has ever happened to me talk. It's not the first time she's expressed this. We are pretty open about where we stand with each other but after this week and the worry I had that things might fall apart, it was especially moving,

 

[Ilov80s]

Sorry to monopolize this thread but I guess I just need somewhere to brag, vent, get it out, etc. I am sure my wife is sick of hearing me talk about her and it's the kind of thing that is just odd enough that I don't mention it too often to friends or family. School is going as well as ever but she let me know yesterday that a week shy of her 3 months sober, she got drunk. I think I handled it as well as possible:

1. Made sure she was physically and mentally ok, first priority.
2. Accentuated the progress
   1. In July, neither of us really thought 81 days sober was possible, there wasn't even a goal or any pressure from me, she just stopped drinking and it started racking up enough that we started to celebrate the milestones
   2. What is 3 months anyways? Why is it so special compared to 2 months, 3 weeks? They are both massive steps forward for her and a major success
   3. I have been telling this whole time that it's very likely she will drink again and that it won't ruin anything, won't undo what she has accomplished,1 loss doesn't erase 10 wins, etc.
   4. Used the metaphor that she's been climbing the stairs and this isn't falling down to the bottom, it's just a day where she didn't take a step.
   5. Pointed out how this time it was just her and friend at her house which much safer than times in the past where she was sneaking out, at strange parties, in parks with people she didn't know, driving, not remembering how she got home, etc. That alone is a huge improvement and something I've stressed for awhile.
   6. I had this cool Keep Growing shirt I was planning to give her at the end of the week to celebrate her awesome first marking period grades and 3 months sober. Now, I think I am going to just delay it by a day since then it will still be a cumulative 3 months since we started counting and celebrate her getting recommitted to her growth.
3. Let her know how it affected me
   1. I spent a lot of June and July not sleeping well worrying about her and wondering what kind of news I would wake up to in the morning
   2. The last 2 months, I've slept easily never worrying at all
   3. Last night, that worrisome feeling came and I slept terribly, it's likely to be that way for a little while

She said all the right things so I am optimistic. She told me, she took responsibility, apologized, and said she still wants my help staying sober.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Sorry to monopolize this thread but I guess I just need somewhere to brag, vent, get it out, etc. I am sure my wife is sick of hearing me talk about her and it's the kind of thing that is just odd enough that I don't mention it too often to friends or family. School is going as well as ever but she let me know yesterday that a week shy of her 3 months sober, she got drunk. I think I handled it as well as possible:

1. Made sure she was physically and mentally ok, first priority.
2. Accentuated the progress
   1. In July, neither of us really thought 81 days sober was possible, there wasn't even a goal or any pressure from me, she just stopped drinking and it started racking up enough that we started to celebrate the milestones
   2. What is 3 months anyways? Why is it so special compared to 2 months, 3 weeks? They are both massive steps forward for her and a major success
   3. I have been telling this whole time that it's very likely she will drink again and that it won't ruin anything, won't undo what she has accomplished,1 loss doesn't erase 10 wins, etc.
   4. Used the metaphor that she's been climbing the stairs and this isn't falling down to the bottom, it's just a day where she didn't take a step.
   5. Pointed out how this time it was just her and friend at her house which much safer than times in the past where she was sneaking out, at strange parties, in parks with people she didn't know, driving, not remembering how she got home, etc. That alone is a huge improvement and something I've stressed for awhile.
   6. I had this cool Keep Growing shirt I was planning to give her at the end of the week to celebrate her awesome first marking period grades and 3 months sober. Now, I think I am going to just delay it by a day since then it will still be a cumulative 3 months since we started counting and celebrate her getting recommitted to her growth.
3. Let her know how it affected me
   1. I spent a lot of June and July not sleeping well worrying about her and wondering what kind of news I would wake up to in the morning
   2. The last 2 months, I've slept easily never worrying at all
   3. Last night, that worrisome feeling came and I slept terribly, it's likely to be that way for a little while

She said all the right things so I am optimistic. She told me, she took responsibility, apologized, and said she still wants my help staying sober.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I’m bad at “stuff” but I like think you did ok. I worry that the guilt of upsetting you might a burden for her. Agree to maybe hold off on the shirt.

It’s yet another bump in the road full of them.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I have been telling this whole time that it's very likely she will drink again and that it won't ruin anything, won't undo what she has accomplished,1 loss doesn't erase 10 wins, etc.

This is good. Perfection isn't the goal. Sobriety, etc, is.

I'm rooting for both of you.

 

[Ilov80s]

I have been telling this whole time that it's very likely she will drink again and that it won't ruin anything, won't undo what she has accomplished,1 loss doesn't erase 10 wins, etc.

This is good. Perfection isn't the goal. Sobriety, etc, is.

I'm rooting for both of you.

Yeah, I've mentioned that several times to her over the course of the 3ish months. I know too well how easy it is to say "oh well I screwed up, I knew I couldn't do it, what's it even matter.etc" I did mot want her having that reaction.

She even asked early on "what if I mess up" and I told her "we will just start over again" and she mentioned how much she liked the idea that there is always a 2nd chance. She's definitely frustrated with herself. She was honest and acknowledged she had fun but regretted it pretty quickly. She has always been clear that part of her still wants to drink but a bigger part of her doesn't want to disappoint me and doesn't like the risks that come with it or how it will make me worry. By her reactions, I seemed to handle it well. She said she felt a lot better after we talked. I just hope this a blip and not the start of something.

 

[Ilov80s]

Sorry to monopolize this thread but I guess I just need somewhere to brag, vent, get it out, etc. I am sure my wife is sick of hearing me talk about her and it's the kind of thing that is just odd enough that I don't mention it too often to friends or family. School is going as well as ever but she let me know yesterday that a week shy of her 3 months sober, she got drunk. I think I handled it as well as possible:

1. Made sure she was physically and mentally ok, first priority.
2. Accentuated the progress
   1. In July, neither of us really thought 81 days sober was possible, there wasn't even a goal or any pressure from me, she just stopped drinking and it started racking up enough that we started to celebrate the milestones
   2. What is 3 months anyways? Why is it so special compared to 2 months, 3 weeks? They are both massive steps forward for her and a major success
   3. I have been telling this whole time that it's very likely she will drink again and that it won't ruin anything, won't undo what she has accomplished,1 loss doesn't erase 10 wins, etc.
   4. Used the metaphor that she's been climbing the stairs and this isn't falling down to the bottom, it's just a day where she didn't take a step.
   5. Pointed out how this time it was just her and friend at her house which much safer than times in the past where she was sneaking out, at strange parties, in parks with people she didn't know, driving, not remembering how she got home, etc. That alone is a huge improvement and something I've stressed for awhile.
   6. I had this cool Keep Growing shirt I was planning to give her at the end of the week to celebrate her awesome first marking period grades and 3 months sober. Now, I think I am going to just delay it by a day since then it will still be a cumulative 3 months since we started counting and celebrate her getting recommitted to her growth.
3. Let her know how it affected me
   1. I spent a lot of June and July not sleeping well worrying about her and wondering what kind of news I would wake up to in the morning
   2. The last 2 months, I've slept easily never worrying at all
   3. Last night, that worrisome feeling came and I slept terribly, it's likely to be that way for a little while

She said all the right things so I am optimistic. She told me, she took responsibility, apologized, and said she still wants my help staying sober.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I’m bad at “stuff” but I like think you did ok. I worry that the guilt of upsetting you might a burden for her. Agree to maybe hold off on the shirt.

It’s yet another bump in the road full of them.

It might be a burden though I know she already had that burden anyway, so much of the changes she's taken on are because it's the first time she's felt like someone actually cared about what she did. She wants that and wants to impress me. I really tried my best to not make it a guilt thing because I don't want her feeling guilty, but I do think it's important she understand how her actions effect others. I don't know, I am new to this.

Still trying to figure out the shirt thing. Wait the extra day till she hits 90 days cumulative because it's about the totality of the change, not some streak? Give it to her after a couple weekends of being sober to celebrate the commitment even in the face of a setback. Not sure yet.

 

[ChiefD]

One day at a time. That’s all to focus on when trying to quit drinking. You are doing a good job and so is she.

Just remind her. One day at a time.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Our oldest came home for the weekend. It was so great. I had the worst week of work in probably 5 years last week so it was just what the doctor ordered. More importantly, she seemed to really enjoy herself.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Still trying to figure out the shirt thing.

Guy Fawkes Day. Just because.

 

[nirad3]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

 

[Caveman33]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

Are you OK with leaving your daughter home alone, when you are returning by 11:30?

My parents used to leave my 12 y/o siblings in charge of watching the 3-9 y/o ones.

 

[Ilov80s]

Well one of the worst possible things happened with the girl I’m working with recently. The last 2 weeks have been awful. She’s physically ok but everything else is a mess.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

I don’t know all the details but given that I have a difficult child, I feel compelled to say this- whatever you do - don’t enable that type of behavior or it will continue and/or get worse.

Our oldest one (19) was raised like we were and she acts like a Gen Xer. Tough as nails. Works hard, plays hard.

The youngest has been more… Challenging. She’s pretty much me as a child, but far more confident than I was.


Anyway, my point is only you know your daughter, but I can’t help they had we been a little tougher on our youngest she would be better off.

 

[nirad3]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

Are you OK with leaving your daughter home alone, when you are returning by 11:30?

My parents used to leave my 12 y/o siblings in charge of watching the 3-9 y/o ones.

I was going to be OK with it but my mom said she refused to leave in that circumstance. My daughter has an Apple Watch and I would have been regularly checking in with her. Oh well.

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

I don’t know all the details but given that I have a difficult child, I feel compelled to say this- whatever you do - don’t enable that type of behavior or it will continue and/or get worse.

Our oldest one (19) was raised like we were and she acts like a Gen Xer. Tough as nails. Works hard, plays hard.

The youngest has been more… Challenging. She’s pretty much me as a child, but far more confident than I was.


Anyway, my point is only you know your daughter, but I can’t help they had we been a little tougher on our youngest she would be better off.

Good advice, thank you.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

Are you OK with leaving your daughter home alone, when you are returning by 11:30?

My parents used to leave my 12 y/o siblings in charge of watching the 3-9 y/o ones.

What about that story says "mature enough to be left alone."

 

[fred_1_15301]

As a father of a 7 and 9 year old, this is a depressing thread. Can’t even imagine my kids turning into monsters but probably a matter of time. Sorry you guys have to deal with this.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

SInce she was having the tantrum of a four-year-old, that seems appropriate. I would have pointed that out.

 

[parasaurolophus]

As a father of a 7 and 9 year old, this is a depressing thread. Can’t even imagine my kids turning into monsters but probably a matter of time. Sorry you guys have to deal with this.

Not looking forward to my daughter's teenage years. I suspect it will be much more difficult than my son's teenage years.

 

[Caveman33]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

Are you OK with leaving your daughter home alone, when you are returning by 11:30?

My parents used to leave my 12 y/o siblings in charge of watching the 3-9 y/o ones.

What about that story says "mature enough to be left alone."

Maybe kids behave at the level that their parents expect. It seems like nirad's daughter wanted to be at home. Gramma could have stopped by for a visit, to ensure the house was under control, and then left the daughter alone for a few hours. In her mind, she might be justifying her petulant behavior by thinking, well, if they are going to treat me like a baby, then they deserve to deal with one. There was nothing exceptional about my siblings. They were drafted into service and everything went fine. They were babysitting other peoples kids by 12-13 years old. I think I was left home alone by 6-7 years old. I rode a regular bicycle at 2. Kids aren't built different today, but maybe parents are.

 

[nirad3]

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

SInce she was having the tantrum of a four-year-old, that seems appropriate. I would have pointed that out.

Knowing how my mom is in her present state, I bet this issue was like 70% on my daughter and 30% on my mom.

And I know it's only gonna get worse... and I'm not built to deal with it.

 

[jobarules]

Sorry, long post...

Don't even technically HAVE a teenager yet but hell, I might as well. My 12-year old daughter is sometimes quite difficult to deal with... hormones, yeah?

Case in point, I asked her WEEKS ago to do me a solid and agree to stay with my mom on Friday night, as I wanted to go play poker with my buddies and her mom and brother were going to be with the Cub Scout troop camping. Well, she reluctantly agreed and I even reminded her last weekend.

Fast forward to Monday afternoon where I'm alerted via text from my wife that daughter was having some "girl-related" issues and "may not want to spend the night at gramma's". I certainly understood and told wife I'd check on her health when I flew back home from Texas. Got home from airport and she got home from school and she was doing fine and had a friend over and everything. So I get myself ready to go, order my Uber and go tell her that I was leaving (my mom was already at our house waiting to take her to dinner). And my kid is like "what, where are you going?" and I reminded her (again) that gramma was there to take her to dinner and back to her house to spend the night. She didn't get pissed but gave me a look, so I just left.

Now a half hour or so later I have my wife texting me from the campsite saying my daughter is off the rails and doesn't want to spend the night at gramma's. I had to remind the wife of the plans and she agreed with me that our kid was being a pain and she needed to suck it up and do what she agreed to. Well, about 2 more hours of phone calls and texts ensue, between me and wife, me and my mom and a few between me and my kid.

Kid is going full-on scorched Earth and now my mom, who has had a trying year given my dad's passing and hip replacement and other things going on, is starting to get annoyed and apparently was yelling at my daughter and according to my kid "treating her like a 4 year old".

Finally the daughter agrees to go to gramma's house but with the caveat that I pick her up in my Uber home at 11:15pm after poker (we have a hard stop of 11pm every time we play).

I know she'd had an overwhelming week, was tired because of the "girl stuff" and my mom can be a lot to handle, but jeez. She was fairly quiet but seemed happy-ish in the Uber ride home and was chipper the next morning. That is, until I suggested that she send gramma an apology text. She got all upset (again), stating that her gramma was the one being crazy and owed HER an apology.

I fear this will only get worse and now my mom's like "don't ever ask me to do anything like that again". I am sad that they were at each other's throats and may have damaged their relationship to a point.

Now, I know I could have just left the "pre-gaming" I was doing (having a couple drinks w/ poker buddies), and was about 30 seconds away from just getting in an Uber and relieving my mom of her duties. But she texted me saying that my kid was finally calm and was packing for the overnight so I felt OK with continuing.

Oh well, I won $200, just hoping my kid isn't too mad at my mom and vice versa.

I would've grounded her for awhile. This behavior is unacceptable.

 

[jobarules]

As a father of a 7 and 9 year old, this is a depressing thread. Can’t even imagine my kids turning into monsters but probably a matter of time. Sorry you guys have to deal with this.

My 14 year old has his issue but is not a monster by any means. There is hope lol

 

[snellman]

Thank goodness my son has a good personality other than usual Teenage Smart### episodes.

He had a physical today for sports and he is 6'2 235 as a 16 year old. If I ever got into it with him, there is no way I could take him down.

 

[Ilov80s]

Thank goodness my son has a good personality other than usual Teenage Smart### episodes.

He had a physical today for sports and he is 6'2 235 as a 16 year old. If I ever got into it with him, there is no way I could take him down.

Yeah that is a big 16 year old, oh man.

 

[Ilov80s]

As a father of a 7 and 9 year old, this is a depressing thread. Can’t even imagine my kids turning into monsters but probably a matter of time. Sorry you guys have to deal with this.

My 14 year old has his issue but is not a monster by any means. There is hope lol

Yeah I don't think most turn into monsters, they just have issues.

 

[Ilov80s]

I think the 15 year old I work with is going to be ok, she seems to be in a good spot now. Maybe a couple years from now I'll talk about what happened but it was pretty messed up and I just don't even want to put that out into the universe even if I am pretty sure it's anonymous.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Yeah I don't think most turn into monsters, they just have issues.

Looking at myself, my family and working in a public setting (library), I would offer that most adults have issues as well, this is not just a teenaged thing IMO. The issues may be different, but they are still there, some adults can simply hide them from most others.

 

[Ilov80s]

Yeah I don't think most turn into monsters, they just have issues.

Looking at myself, my family and working in a public setting (library), I would offer that most adults have issues as well, this is not just a teenaged thing IMO. The issues may be different, but they are still there, some adults can simply hide them from most others.

Well said. Adults just hide them better. Sometimes lol. I don't ever fault kids for their issues because I see the adults of this world. Those are the role models we are supposed to be looking up to? No wonder young people are struggling.

 

[Dezbelief]

Deep breath in
Let it out
Deep breath in
Let it out

Yes, teenagers. I love mine no matter what, why do they feel the need to test that statement.

 

[Ilov80s]

So the 15 year old got into some trouble at school last week and got suspended. She's alright, just got sick of this girl bullying her and whooped some ***. Wasn't the right thing to do but after what this girl did, I get it. She then sent me a very long and super apologetic email about how she didn't mean to and doesn't want me to think less of her and how she knows this is going to make more work for me trying to help get stay caught up in school, etc.

I told her aunt/guardian about this apology and the aunt said she was glad the 15 year old cared what someone thought because she just doesn't seem to care about anyone else's opinion.I mentioned that with her not having her dad involved in her life, she probably sees me as the father she wishes she had and said if that's too much/too weird I can back off. The aunt said no, not at all and relayed a story from a month or 2 ago. Her grandma asked her if she could have picked her parents who would she have wanted. For her mom, she said her aunt. For her dad, she said me. The crazy part is I am totally ok with this. The 15 year old and I talked about it a bit today and she definitely wishes I was her dad and kind of invited me to essentially be that. I am not only ok with that but honestly wish she was my daughter. Not really sure where that all goes from here but it's really like one of the best things to ever happen to me.

 

[Ilov80s]

So our new challenge is disordered eating. Anyone have any experience with that? She wants to eat but says when it is time to eat, she feels sick and can't swallow. She has fallen way underweight. So far I have:

1. Told her and her guardian to see a doctor, it could be physical but I am pretty sure it's mental
2. Got her a bunch of those meal replacement drinks and told her to drink 1 day, she is.
3. Doing some basic nutrition education with her.
4. Doing some work with her to help her re-reestablish a positive relationship with her body
5. The idea is seeing that her body is important for her, needs love and that food is a way to care for her body
6. Start looking around for a therapist who specializes in trauma and teens.

I feel confident we can do this. I took her from cutting to healed and clear. Drinking 7 days a week to drinking twice in the last 116 days. From seeing no future for herself to believing she is going to make something of herself. Any suggestions for a disordered eating?

 

[Caveman33]

So our new challenge is disordered eating. Anyone have any experience with that? She wants to eat but says when it is time to eat, she feels sick and can't swallow. She has fallen way underweight. So far I have:

1. Told her and her guardian to see a doctor, it could be physical but I am pretty sure it's mental
2. Got her a bunch of those meal replacement drinks and told her to drink 1 day, she is.
3. Doing some basic nutrition education with her.
4. Doing some work with her to help her re-reestablish a positive relationship with her body
5. The idea is seeing that her body is important for her, needs love and that food is a way to care for her body
6. Start looking around for a therapist who specializes in trauma and teens.

I feel confident we can do this. I took her from cutting to healed and clear. Drinking 7 days a week to drinking twice in the last 116 days. From seeing no future for herself to believing she is going to make something of herself. Any suggestions for a disordered eating?

How much THC and how frequently does she consume it? CHS is becoming more prevalent, especially among young people. The most common symptom is waking up with nausea. In order to be able to eat, people will resort to smoking even more. Some people have lived with this for years, decades even, making frequent trips to the ER. Many people with IBS think MJ is helping them but the cure is the cause.

 

[Ilov80s]

So our new challenge is disordered eating. Anyone have any experience with that? She wants to eat but says when it is time to eat, she feels sick and can't swallow. She has fallen way underweight. So far I have:

1. Told her and her guardian to see a doctor, it could be physical but I am pretty sure it's mental
2. Got her a bunch of those meal replacement drinks and told her to drink 1 day, she is.
3. Doing some basic nutrition education with her.
4. Doing some work with her to help her re-reestablish a positive relationship with her body
5. The idea is seeing that her body is important for her, needs love and that food is a way to care for her body
6. Start looking around for a therapist who specializes in trauma and teens.

I feel confident we can do this. I took her from cutting to healed and clear. Drinking 7 days a week to drinking twice in the last 116 days. From seeing no future for herself to believing she is going to make something of herself. Any suggestions for a disordered eating?

How much THC and how frequently does she consume it? CHS is becoming more prevalent, especially among young people. The most common symptom is waking up with nausea. In order to be able to eat, people will resort to smoking even more. Some people have lived with this for years, decades even, making frequent trips to the ER. Many people with IBS think MJ is helping them but the cure is the cause.

Oh wow that’s really interesting and I don’t know how much she smokes but I think it’s a lot. It’s something we don’t talk about much. Her drinking and taking random pills was such a massive problem that I kind of told her I’m not even worried about the weed, we need to take care of the most harmful issue first. She’s flirted with the idea of not smoking but wasn’t ready yet so I just haven’t pushed it. Maybe this is a conversation to have with her. Thanks so much. I would not at all be surprised if this is it. I had never heard of it but man does it sound exactly like what’s going on. She doesn’t have any other attributes of someone with an eating disorder. She’s not throwing up, isn’t obsessed with her weight, doesn’t workout at all yet alone obsessively, etc. I was assuming this was trauma related connected to her being abused as there is a high correlation between being abused- especially sexually and eating disorders. But honestly, this really could be the issue.

Do you work in a medical/treatment related field?

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I had no idea that CHS was a thing. But Cedars Sinai pretty much sums it up.

 

[Ilov80s]

I had no idea that CHS was a thing. But Cedars Sinai pretty much sums it up.

Yeah first I had ever heard of this but seems like a pretty new thing. It actually makes a lot of sense as a possible cause for her. Now just have to convince her to stop smoking for a few weeks to see if her symptoms resolve. I think she will be open to trying because she's flirted with idea before and she's very frustrated with the stomach pain, constant nausea and weight loss....but of course easier said than done stopping bad habits.

 

[ChiefD]

....but of course easier said than done stopping bad habits.

except……this girl has shown the strength and will power to stop drinking and turn her life around.

i would say she has A LOT of mental fortitude to conquer ANYTHING at this point. I’m sure you have told her that before, but I would definitely emphasize that.

That girl has some plenty of that in spades based on what you are telling us.

 

[Ilov80s]

....but of course easier said than done stopping bad habits.

except……this girl has shown the strength and will power to stop drinking and turn her life around.

i would say she has A LOT of mental fortitude to conquer ANYTHING at this point. I’m sure you have told her that before, but I would definitely emphasize that.

That girl has some pretty of that in spades based on what you are telling us.

Thanks that is very true. We talk all the time about that. I am emphasizing it repeatedly for how we can conquer the eating problem. In a very short period of time she has made massive changes to her life. Changes just a few months ago she would have said were impossible. But I know from life experience that just because you can kick one bad habit, doesn't mean other bad habits will be as easy. But yeah, I totally believe she can take care of this whether it's CHS or just disordered eating. She's so brave and so resilient. I tell her all the time that she's my hero, for real.

 

[Ilov80s]

Not to say the eating problem is totally fixed, but we've consciously worked on it in several ways and got her to see a doctor. Good news from the doctors so far in that it doesn't appear there is anything physically wrong. I got her trying to eat regularly and got her those Ensure meal replacement drinks so she has at least 1 a day. She's feeling better, looks better and has put on 15 pounds since I posted last. I think another 10 pounds would get her to a health spot. I still can't believe that just like that I've been able to actually help someone so much. It's been such a blessing. She is finishing semester 1 with all As and Bs. In less than a year, as she puts it "her whole life and future has turned around."

Her biological dad has been released from prison in Texas and maybe will come back. She said she's spent the last 10 years wanting nothing more than him to come back and now she actually doesn't want him back. I asked why and she said because she has me and that's better.

 

[NajehHejan]

Having major issues with 15yo son. Suspended for 10 days last October for slap boxing. Almost got expelled- had to beg and plead and cry to school to get them to change their decision on expulsion. Had serious talks about no more nonsense- thought he got it - he’s a smart kid, good grades, wants to be a doctor. Recently found vape weed in his room. Made up lies. Finally kind of fessed up. Then a week later, we found paraphernalia in his school bag - he’d surely be expelled no doubt if school found it. Wife is at her wits end. I have no clue what to do. He’s indefinitely grounded. Nightmare.

 

[Ilov80s]

Having major issues with 15yo son. Suspended for 10 days last October for slap boxing. Almost got expelled- had to beg and plead and cry to school to get them to change their decision on expulsion. Had serious talks about no more nonsense- thought he got it - he’s a smart kid, good grades, wants to be a doctor. Recently found vape weed in his room. Made up lies. Finally kind of fessed up. Then a week later, we found paraphernalia in his school bag - he’d surely be expelled no doubt if school found it. Wife is at her wits end. I have no clue what to do. He’s indefinitely grounded. Nightmare.

Ugh that sucks. How bad was the boxing thing that they were going to expel him? Or is he in a private school?

Have you talked him about what his goals are (like being a doctor, etc) and how things like getting kicked out of school, smoking weed, etc. could impact that? Has he talked to you about why he is vaping? or how he thinks it will or won't impact him?

and when I say talk to him- I mean asked him what he thought, had a 2 way discussion where his POV controlled the convo. I am a firm believer that a lecture from a parent is like trying to turn a hose spigot off by turning counter clockwise.

 

[Dezbelief]

There is a stigma about being intelligent in school. Unfortunately one of the most accepting groups is the stoners.

 

[Ilov80s]

There is a stigma about being intelligent in school. Unfortunately one of the most accepting groups is the stoners.

I will be honest, as a HS teacher, I don't see that stigma. There's a much bigger stigma with being unintelligent. This is of course my anecdotal experience from the high school I work in.

 

[Dezbelief]

Let your son know it's ok to be smart. Let your son know if he wants to partake in God's Herb there will be plenty of time down the road to do that. Now is not the time. Let your son know you will fully support him in his goals for the future whether or not that involves becoming a doctor. Being smart is something to be proud of even if the cool kids say otherwise. A lot of the cool kids today will be AL Bundy in the future. Ask your son if he wants to peak in high-school or peak in adulthood? Let him know high-school lasts a few years and adulthood lasts a few decades.

 

[Dezbelief]

There is a stigma about being intelligent in school. Unfortunately one of the most accepting groups is the stoners.

I will be honest, as a HS teacher, I don't see that stigma. There's a much bigger stigma with being unintelligent. This is of course my anecdotal experience from the high school I work in.

I will agree there is a greater stigma to having below normal intelligence but that doesn't mean there's no stigma for the highly intelligent. Look no further than Sheldon Cooper for how most of society views intelligence.

 

[Ilov80s]

There is a stigma about being intelligent in school. Unfortunately one of the most accepting groups is the stoners.

I will be honest, as a HS teacher, I don't see that stigma. There's a much bigger stigma with being unintelligent. This is of course my anecdotal experience from the high school I work in.

I will agree there is a greater stigma to having below normal intelligence but that doesn't mean there's no stigma for the highly intelligent. Look no further than Sheldon Cooper for how most of society views intelligence.

That is a TV show written for laughs. Also, I do think there is a lot of room between "smart kid with good grades" and "99th percentile child nuclear physicist level genius". All I can say is from my experience teaching in high school for 17 years is that being smart/getting good grades is generally a positive socially speaking. But I always have to caveat that with my anecdotal experience is limited to a couple schools in SE Michigan.