AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
What else do you suggest?
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Gas prices: worse than '81 oil shock (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter mr. furley
- Start date
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Well put.
mr. furley
Footballguy
should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
snogger
Footballguy
As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
mr. furley
Footballguy
i think a Congressional investigation is in order at the very least.gas goes up 4-5 cents a day around here. with reasons like "well, a semi overturned in Idaho last nite.. devestated the world market."
gas was $1.99 here about 6 weeks ago. it's $3.36 this morning. i'm no maff expert but that looks like a 60% increase to me. i can't think of one other product that has increased 60% in 6 weeks despite falling oil prices and increased supply.
snogger
Footballguy
It is what it is. You can show all the outrage you want. But as long as you keep buying SUV's to drive to work and keep buying the gas they will continue to charge what they want when they want.I still can't get over watching a news report about the cost of gas.. They interviewed one person after another driving SUV's alone on their way to work complaining about the price of gas. 
mr. furley
Footballguy
BUT WE'RE AMERICA! just flipping the idea that we should all shut up because Europeans pay $7 a gallon.As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
doesn't quite work like that... if we should eat #### because Europe pays double. shouldn't we be burning embassies because Venezuelans pay a fraction of what we do?yeah it's stupid. but so is the idea that because Europeans are taxed outrageously.. that we should be content we're not.
dunno what the two have to do with each other. we're talking American gas prices.. not European.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Other perks the Venezualens get:
Only 3% of the sewage in the country is treated,
20% of the population don't have access to potable water
20% of kids are malnourished
37% of the population live in poverty.
They have nearly 3x the cases of AIDS that we do even though our population is over 11x theirs.
All things considered, I'll stick with the USA and the $3.29 per gallon.
packersfan
Footballguy
$3.40 in my part of Wisconsin.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
You guys do understand how oil and gas prices are determined, don't you? The oil companies don't just "decide" what to charge.
mr. furley
Footballguy
people are complaining because something that was once reasonable.. has nearly doubled in very short order.of course people are going to complain. it's shocking. my fiancee has no choice but to commute to work right now.. she's dropping $45 a week in the tank. $180 a month. we're not exactly banking chet money over here. and she drives a car that's getting appx 30-32 mpg. not a gas guzzler by current standards.
mr. furley
Footballguy
and this is kinda my point.it's silly to compare our gas prices to that of Europe. there's really no comparison.
it's just as dumb, to me anyways, as comparing what Venezuelans pay.different countries, different governments, different treaties and agreements, different supply. it's apples and bicycles.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think we need another "War for oil" - this time in Venezuela.
The last one obviously helped us out a bunch at the pump.
The last one obviously helped us out a bunch at the pump.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
Local news story here on TV was about cancer patients not being able to afford gas to get to their treatments now (vs. a month ago). They were driving about 40 miles each way. Let's see -- 20 mpg, that's 2 gallons each way. So, now about $12.50 a trip vs. $10.50 a month ago. $2 holding you back from taking your cancer treatment.
This interview was conducted in a Starbucks, where...oh, nevermind.
This interview was conducted in a Starbucks, where...oh, nevermind.
snogger
Footballguy
Not my argument GB.. My argument is we've brought this upon ourselves by buying as many SUV's and F350's we could when prices were below $2.BUT WE'RE AMERICA! just flipping the idea that we should all shut up because Europeans pay $7 a gallon.As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
yeah it's stupid. but so is the idea that because Europeans are taxed outrageously.. that we should be content we're not.
dunno what the two have to do with each other. we're talking American gas prices.. not European.
I'm with you.. the prices here have NOTHING to do with what those "over there" pay.
All we can do is do what each person can do to reduce your consumption.
My wife & I both drive vechiles that get 30+ to the gallon..
We have made the decision to only drive within a hour or two from our house this year with our RV to save money.
Adjust to the situation around you and plan ahead.
If I had some extra money I'd look into buying something like this for our around town trips:
Cheap
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Are there really a lot of people saying "Who cares - Europe past $7"???
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
If you had $5500 extra dollars, you'd a) spend it on a $5500 motorcycle rather than b) take $500 to pay for the added expense of the vehicles you already drive and pocket the $5000 difference?
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saintfool
Dead sexy
We're at about $4/gallon for regular unleaded here in Chicago. The good news is that as the gas prices rise, I get to bemoan the cost of it at home. My wife finally agrees with me about the cost getting too high, so she's agreed to drive less. Score one for me...
Doug B
Footballguy
Can't speak for others, but I'm much more interested in what's happening upstream from the oil companies. Why is refining capacity so strained? More upstream -- why is the $/barrel price moving so much and so quickly?
Do you really think this hasn't been done multiple times before? Why do you want to see Congress waste time yet again on this to only prove that it is supply and demand in action?
snogger
Footballguy
If you had $5500 extra dollars, you'd a) spend it on a $5500 motorcycle rather than b) take $500 to pay for the added expense of the vehicles you already drive and pocket the $5000 difference?
Something to cruise around town in without wasting gas. The trips around town are a waste of gas.Start the car, drive a mile or two, turn off car, restart car, drive to other side of town, shut off car.. Restart car, drive another couple miles, repeat until I get back home......
Also, notice I said "Something like this".. I'd actually look to buy used and something a lot cheaper(<$1000).. That was just the first link I found..
mr. furley
Footballguy
i'm starting to wonder about that.
mr. furley
Footballguy
Not my argument GB.. My argument is we've brought this upon ourselves by buying as many SUV's and F350's we could when prices were below $2.BUT WE'RE AMERICA! just flipping the idea that we should all shut up because Europeans pay $7 a gallon.As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
yeah it's stupid. but so is the idea that because Europeans are taxed outrageously.. that we should be content we're not.
dunno what the two have to do with each other. we're talking American gas prices.. not European.
I'm with you.. the prices here have NOTHING to do with what those "over there" pay.
All we can do is do what each person can do to reduce your consumption.
My wife & I both drive vechiles that get 30+ to the gallon..
We have made the decision to only drive within a hour or two from our house this year with our RV to save money.
Adjust to the situation around you and plan ahead.
If I had some extra money I'd look into buying something like this for our around town trips:
Cheap
i've taken to walking to work. look for a trimmer/slimmer furley in '07!
Schlzm
Footballguy
The most recent reason I have seen for the sudden increase to the price of oil is because Mr. Chaves decided to nationalize the oil industry and back out of OPEC, among other things. Actions such as this cause the futures market to freak out thus driving up the cost of fuels and other petrol based items. Also petrolium jelly is not actually made from petrol, incase anyone was still wondering.Schlzm
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snogger
Footballguy
Yea, but your future wife said she is marrying you for the extra warmth in the winter time.. guess she will have to find another for that..Not my argument GB.. My argument is we've brought this upon ourselves by buying as many SUV's and F350's we could when prices were below $2.BUT WE'RE AMERICA! just flipping the idea that we should all shut up because Europeans pay $7 a gallon.As soon as we can drill in our own backyard and supply our own oil then we can have those prices to.should we not be enraged that Venezuelans pay $0.12 a gallon?
i mean.. we're paying a LOT more than that.
yeah it's stupid. but so is the idea that because Europeans are taxed outrageously.. that we should be content we're not.
dunno what the two have to do with each other. we're talking American gas prices.. not European.
I'm with you.. the prices here have NOTHING to do with what those "over there" pay.
All we can do is do what each person can do to reduce your consumption.
My wife & I both drive vechiles that get 30+ to the gallon..
We have made the decision to only drive within a hour or two from our house this year with our RV to save money.
Adjust to the situation around you and plan ahead.
If I had some extra money I'd look into buying something like this for our around town trips:
Cheap
Doug B
Footballguy
I'm not currently satisfied with the pat answer of "supply and demand, supply and demand". I have questions about how oil-producing nations calculate supply and demand, and how they adjust/don't adjust production to match the data. How good are they at predicting the near-term future? Do they heed the data selectively (ignore future signs of lower demand, while trumpeting anticipations of greater demand)?Are all the gradual $1/$2 bumps in the per-barrel price absolutely necessary? Are those bumps in respone to real events, or anticipations? Those are small ripples that cause big waves as they percolate through the system.
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Rayderr
Footballguy
50% is "nearly double"?people are complaining because something that was once reasonable.. has nearly doubled in very short order.of course people are going to complain. it's shocking.
I still can't get over watching a news report about the cost of gas..
They interviewed one person after another driving SUV's alone on their way to work complaining about the price of gas.
my fiancee has no choice but to commute to work right now.. she's dropping $45 a week in the tank. $180 a month. we're not exactly banking chet money over here. and she drives a car that's getting appx 30-32 mpg. not a gas guzzler by current standards.
I'll make sure the global gasoline price-setting czar seeks your approval on all future increases.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
I'm not defending gas companies, but they do have to operate within the law. And when the law requires summer grade gasoline to be different than winter grade gasoline, they have to build up a storage of the current grade so they can begin switching the facilities over to processing the next grade. If people begin consuming that storage more than they predicted, they're going to increase the price to help the storage last until the next grade can begin to be sold.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
OPEC determines it. It's a cartel, of which Saddam use to be a member of. The members don't like each other, but they also don't like the rest of the world. Makes for a great situation.
Rayderr
Footballguy
There is some truth in the "supply and demand" logic. Remember back when gas was dirt cheap during the clinton administration? That was the result of a mass sell-off of the strategic oil reserves (which was ordered to obtain a balanced budget) With so much oil out there, prices dropped like a stone. It even got to the point where the U.S. was selling it's oil for less than they bought it. So the Dept. of Energy suspended sales of the strategic oil reserves until the price went back up. The price did go up, so DOE started selling the oil again to lower prices (interesting side note: Clinton made a big deal when the gas prices started going up by saying he was authorizing the sale of the Strategic Oil Reserves to help keep gas prices down, when in fact the order to sell the gas had come a year earlier and DOE had already predetermined when to start sellling oil again. Nice spin.)
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
I paid $1.79/gallon a little over a year ago. On Friday I paid $3.42 a gallon.50% is "nearly double"?people are complaining because something that was once reasonable.. has nearly doubled in very short order.of course people are going to complain. it's shocking.
I still can't get over watching a news report about the cost of gas..
They interviewed one person after another driving SUV's alone on their way to work complaining about the price of gas.
my fiancee has no choice but to commute to work right now.. she's dropping $45 a week in the tank. $180 a month. we're not exactly banking chet money over here. and she drives a car that's getting appx 30-32 mpg. not a gas guzzler by current standards.
Doug B
Footballguy
Thanks for the response.There are some black boxes in your response that I would love to see opened (note that I'm not putting you personally on the hook for greater detail, as I'm sure these issues are pretty darned complicated). For instance, I didn't think Venezuela controlled a large enough percentage of the world's production to cause a "freak-out". Also, is the "freak out" warranted? Isn't Venezuela still selling oil on the market,only now in competition to OPEC? If so, why isn't this competition leading to a decrease in per-barrel prices?
And what exactly constitutes a "freak out"? Is that really a good enough excuse? Perhaps instead of "freaking out", there's some analysts out there that need to spend a little more time checking out the price environment, and not just clicking on the "INCREASE" button everytime anything changes.
Look, I'm just trying to apply some common sense to a ridiculously complex system. I know I'm missing loads of facts and nuances here. I would love just to understand, and be able to mentally account for the quick movement of the price I pay at the pump.
mr. furley
Footballguy
i've seen it come up a bit in these oil price discussions. and was over-hearing an argument about it this weekend.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Jeez.I would hope that this does not represent the majority of the thinking out there.
i've seen it come up a bit in these oil price discussions. and was over-hearing an argument about it this weekend.
mr. furley
Footballguy
WHERE I COME FROM IT IS! :digsinheels:YOU WANT SOME!?!?! :turnshataround:50% is "nearly double"?people are complaining because something that was once reasonable.. has nearly doubled in very short order.of course people are going to complain. it's shocking.
I still can't get over watching a news report about the cost of gas..
They interviewed one person after another driving SUV's alone on their way to work complaining about the price of gas.
my fiancee has no choice but to commute to work right now.. she's dropping $45 a week in the tank. $180 a month. we're not exactly banking chet money over here. and she drives a car that's getting appx 30-32 mpg. not a gas guzzler by current standards.
Rayderr
Footballguy
If Offa an American? I know I've heard Doctor Detroit say similar things, but he actually lives in Europe (Netherlands if I recall)i've seen it come up a bit in these oil price discussions. and was over-hearing an argument about it this weekend.
Rayderr
Footballguy
a year is "very short order"?I paid $1.79/gallon a little over a year ago. On Friday I paid $3.42 a gallon.50% is "nearly double"?people are complaining because something that was once reasonable.. has nearly doubled in very short order.of course people are going to complain. it's shocking.
I still can't get over watching a news report about the cost of gas..
They interviewed one person after another driving SUV's alone on their way to work complaining about the price of gas.
my fiancee has no choice but to commute to work right now.. she's dropping $45 a week in the tank. $180 a month. we're not exactly banking chet money over here. and she drives a car that's getting appx 30-32 mpg. not a gas guzzler by current standards.
Doug B
Footballguy
DeathBytes and Rayderr are helping to increase my (and others') understanding. Through jest, y are saying essentially that I should not seek to understand ... that I should just accept it. In a sense, I must accept it, of course ... but I'd like to accept it with a better idea of what's going on. What can I say? I'm a curious sort.Death, Rayderr -- the implication of your posts is that a lot of the at-the-pump price of gasoline actually gets determined post-refining. I thought the opposite was true for America (because taxes are a proportionally bigger issue for European gas prices, for example).
So ... let's say that the entire U.S. government made it their sworn mission to significantly lower gas prices, starting today. The goal is a $1.50/gal national average by Labor Day 2007. Are there methods out there by which this could be accomplished (anything you can think of is in play)? Methods out there by which this could be maintained? And is doing so desirable? Would it cause a long-term problem of some kind?
Schlzm
Footballguy
I don't have all the answers to your questions but I will try and add a little more insight and provide a few links as to why Venezuelas recent actions have cause the sudden changes to the futures markets.Major dealings with China
Takes over drilling operations from foreign companies.
Takes over local TelCo
Sweeping nationalization overview
Strategic agreements with China
Sweeping reforms throughout government
Add to this other activities around the world such as growing Russian hostility, Iranian hardlining, Iraq, some Royal ##### crashing his yacht in the ME, etc... etc... and it really starts to affect how investors trade on the futures markets and how OPEC decides to throttle output.
Schlzm
Death Bytes
Footballguy
Sure there are ways. But would the government do it? I doubt it. I think the government realizes it's in the best interests of America's future that gas prices continue to increase. One of the reasons alternative fuels aren't a pragmatic solution is because they are so expensive. People don't want to drive alternative fuel vehicles when alternative fuel is $5-$6 a gallon and gas is $2 a gallon. But the more expensive gas becomes, the more appealing alternative fuels become. I don't think it's a conspiracy within the government to just let gas prices increase. I just think no one is going to stand up and fight it because both parties can see that higher gas prices eventually leads us to reduce our dependence on foriegn oil.
mr. furley
Footballguy
this type stuff has been happening for years and years and years. gas stayed relatively stable for most of my teens and 20s. we went through a war during that period, a conflict or three, saw the collapse of the USSR. we had major hurricanes, devestation of Kuwait and Iraq's oil fields...those are pretty major changes.... gas generally stayed the same or at least the fluctuations were "reasonable". now every other day or so we read another news article about how Bangladesh has experienced a drop in their birth rate by 0.00002% which has a(e)ffected the way oil is refined in Greenland so we can expect a 4 cent increase at the pump.
it's a joke
gas prices literally go up 4-5 cents every 2 to 3 days here.
Doug B
Footballguy
Actually ... yes. Compare it to the price of groceries, clothes, automobiles, etc. Gasoline has increased far faster than any other consumer good I can think of.Consider my vantage point: In my driving lifetime, gas around here moved, with some fluctuations, between about 70 cents to $1.25/gal over the course of about 15 years (up until January 2003). But in the last 4 1/2 years, the price has more than doubled, and has done so in an especially herky-jerky manner.
snogger
Footballguy
Only way that happens is open up drilling in other areas in the United States.. Alaska, Wyoming, Gulf of Mexico, etc.. We are currently controlled by our demand of overseas oil. America needs to look at themselves and decide:
Do we continue to rely on Mid-east and Venezuela for our oil and continue to consume more and more oil?
Or do we say enough is enough.. Cut back on consumption, start doing our own drilling and truly look for alternative energy instead of all talk and no substance.
Until that happens we will have no choice but to pay what they charge.
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mr. furley
Footballguy
how much burden does the auto industry bear for not adapting more eco-friendly auto's? or for not sticking in a more fuel efficient engine?how much effect does 2 wars have on the price of oil? the US military has to be sucking up the oil faster than any other segment of similar size.
Doug B
Footballguy
Thanks for another thoughtful response.Especially noteworthy is that some powerful people are resisting the temptation to score quick popularity points as they stand back and "let" the gas prices rise. I can agree that reduced dependence on foreign oil is a worthy long-term (heck, middle-term) goal.Over time, perhaps expensive gas can also trigger the entire economy upward. There should be some kind of trickle effect that puts more pressure on companies to increase the prices for goods (already happenings), and for these prices to eventually get passed on to American labor as wage increases (because people will need more $$$ to live on, and will not work for year 2002 wages).
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
It's not the auto industry's responsibility to keep gasoline affordable for everyone. The auto industry is supposed be held accountable by consumer demand - if Americans are genuinely upset with the price of gasoline (and/or its consumption's effect on the environment), then those feelings should be manifested by a drop in demand for automobile's that are not "eco-friendly."
Rayderr
Footballguy
Actually, my comments dealt more with crude oil prices and how they affect gasoline prices. But I'll answer your questions anyways...Ways the Fed. Gov't can make it gas cost less:
1. Implement a nationwide, year-round gas formula, so that refineries don't have to keep switching every couple months and make several different blends.
2. More oil supply. sadly, this means more drilling. can't get gasoline without the crude oil. but if not in the U.S. try to broker a deal with the Russians. their economy is in the crapper, and many oil industry experts believe they are sitting on a huge oil field.
3. Make hybrid engines mandatory. The quality of engines is to the point now where it rivals combustion engines. making it standard should help lower the cost of hybrid vehicles as well.
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