What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

​ 🐘 ​​ 🐴 ​2020 Presidential Debates thread - 2nd Debate October 15 (1 Viewer)

Getzlaf15 said:
HellToupee said:
WALLACE: “Are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups…”

TRUMP: “Sure…”

WALLACE: “And to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha, and as we’ve seen in Portland”

TRUMP: “Sure, I’m prepared to do it, but I would say almost everything I see is from the left-wing not from the right-wing. I’m willing to do anything, I want to see peace…”

WALLACE: “Then do it, sir.”

BIDEN: “Do it, say it.”

TRUMP: “What do you want to call them? Give me a name.”

WALLACE: “White supremacists and right-wing militias”

BIDEN: “Proud Boys”

Trump: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left.”
Click to expand...
Went into debate thinking Trump would try and do everything he could to turn Biden into a gaffe machine.  He tried hard and that didn't happen.

And here, it's Biden turning Trump into one of the biggest and most disgusting gaffes ever.  When the pressure was on, Trump crumbled and could not come up with a clear thought on his own.

Two or three times on all the CNN after debate shows last night, talking heads were puzzled as to why Trump did this as he has denounced that group a few times in the past.
Click to expand...
Trump is pretty consistent here "there were very bad people on both sides"

 
My father is a hard-core MAGA hat wearing 24x7 fox news watcher. I just talked to him and I told him the truth, for the first five or ten minutes watching the debate I was like oh no Biden is getting crushed.  I didn't get any further before he told me he had to turn the debate off because he couldn't stand how trump acted, he was so un presidential (not that Biden was any better obv but nobody expected him to be presidential).   And this had nothing do do with the race question or the hunter biden stuff..  it was the interrupting and being unpresidential.  Of course he said he was still going to vote for him because Biden is so terrible but he didnt like it. 

This man has never said a bad word about trump since he became a candidate.  

I have no idea what changed but FYI there's a segment of the population who might be a little less likely to buy a hat or drive to the polls after last night. 

 
Sarah Cooper on Trump calling for a drug test for Biden.

I'd love to see her put together a segment with clips of all Trump's very odd interruptions and facial muggings from that debate.  I was too focused on trying to hear Biden's message and didn't really pay attention to all that Trump was saying.

 
Punxsutawney Phil said:
Is that a legit thing, or did you just make it up?  First time I have ever heard of this.
Click to expand...






The Proud Boys is a far-right[1][2][3][4][5] neo-fascist[6][7][8][9] male-only organization that promotes and engages in political violence.[10][11][12][13] It is based in the United States and has a presence in Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom.[14][15] The group was started as a joke in the far-right Taki's Magazine[16] in 2016 by Vice Media co-founder and former commentator Gavin McInnes, taking its name from the song "Proud of Your Boy" from the Disney musical Aladdin.[17][18] The Proud Boys emerged as part of the alt-right, but McInnes began distancing himself from the alt-right in early 2017, saying the alt-right's focus is race while his focus is what he defines as "Western values." This re-branding effort intensified after the Unite the Right rally.[19][20] Since 2018, the group's leader is Enrique Tarrio.

The group believes men—especially white men—and Western culture are under siege; their views have elements of the white genocide conspiracy theory.[21][22][23] Officially, the group rejects white supremacy, although members have participated in multiple racist events and events centered around anti-left violence, with a former member organizing the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville.[24] The organization glorifies violence[25][26][27][28] and the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has called it an "alt-right fight club."[24][29][30]

 
Terminalxylem said:
No, I’m genuinely curious. I’ve heard of the Proud Boys but don’t hardly know anything about them. Pictures portray them as a bunch of bearded white guys.
Click to expand...
I'm not really sure why we need to know the make up of their members/supporters.  This is pretty much all you need to know (from SPLC):
 

Established in the midst of the 2016 presidential election by VICE Media co-founder Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys are self-described “western chauvinists” who adamantly deny any connection to the racist “alt-right,” insisting they are simply a fraternal group spreading an “anti-political correctness” and “anti-white guilt” agenda.

Their disavowals of bigotry are belied by their actions: rank-and-file Proud Boys and leaders regularly spout white nationalist memes and maintain affiliations with known extremists. They are known for anti-Muslim and misogynistic rhetoric. Proud Boys have appeared alongside other hate groups at extremist gatherings like the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville. Indeed, former Proud Boys member Jason Kessler helped to organize the event, which brought together Klansmen, antisemites, Southern racists, and militias. Kessler was only “expelled” from the group after the violence and near-universal condemnation of the Charlottesville rally-goers.
Click to expand...

 
AAABatteries said:
I'm not really sure why we need to know the make up of their members/supporters.  This is pretty much all you need to know (from SPLC):
Click to expand...
Yeah, I looked them up. They sound belligerent, and anything but tolerant of non-white race/culture. A token minority member doesn’t change their parallels to white supremacists, even if that member is advertised as their leader.

 
Can't believe we are splitting hairs about what the Proud Boys are about. They are clearly violent. For a President touting law and order, it shouldn't really matter what their makeup is or their specific agenda since they are clearly violent and extremists and proud to make that known. 

 
gianmarco said:
Can't believe we are splitting hairs about what the Proud Boys are about. They are clearly violent. For a President touting law and order, it shouldn't really matter what their makeup is or their specific agenda since they are clearly violent and extremists and proud to make that known. 
Click to expand...


But, but... they are just a fraternal group spreading an anti-white guilt agenda! ;)  

 
offdee said:
Did you miss when Biden said "and #2" and Trump mumbled "you're a #2".  :lmao:
Click to expand...
Does someone have a link to that because that's not what I thought he said. I think Biden was making some points and mistakenly said "...number 3..." when he was on point number 2 and Trump said something like "you're on number 2".

 
gianmarco said:
Can't believe we are splitting hairs about what the Proud Boys are about. They are clearly violent. For a President touting law and order, it shouldn't really matter what their makeup is or their specific agenda since they are clearly violent and extremists and proud to make that known. 
Click to expand...
That seems to be the point...often arguing semantics of a group that may not all be white supremacists...just a far right extremist group with some white supremacits, mostly misogynists, nationalists, anti islamic....

 
Moderator: "Mr. President, will you denounce and condemn Antifa, right here, right now?"

Trump: "They are the absolute worst.  We've never had anything like them here and they are a huge threat to cities and good citizens. Bunch of criminals who need to be locked up for good and throw away the key. Our liberal leaders won't do anything about them but I will.  It's about time someone stands up to them and gets rid of them."

Moderator: "And Mr. President, will you denounce and condemn Proud Boys, right here, right now?"

Trump: "Sure. Stand by."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
gianmarco said:
Can't believe we are splitting hairs about what the Proud Boys are about. They are clearly violent. For a President touting law and order, it shouldn't really matter what their makeup is or their specific agenda since they are clearly violent and extremists and proud to make that known. 
Click to expand...
That's the objective. It's on the rest of us to not engage such meaningless drivel. 

 
gianmarco said:
Can't believe we are splitting hairs about what the Proud Boys are about. They are clearly violent. For a President touting law and order, it shouldn't really matter what their makeup is or their specific agenda since they are clearly violent and extremists and proud to make that known. 
Click to expand...
While true, surely you see this for the strawman it is when all the "peaceful" protesting happening in the streets are by alt-left Antifa/BLM types.  

Starbucks on fire.......hey look there are alt-right groups too!  They might not have started this fire, but, they are white supremacists!

 
dgreen said:
Does someone have a link to that because that's not what I thought he said. I think Biden was making some points and mistakenly said "...number 3..." when he was on point number 2 and Trump said something like "you're on number 2".
Click to expand...
I thought he said "you're a #2" as well when I was watching live.  

 
tonydead said:
While true, surely you see this for the strawman it is when all the "peaceful" protesting happening in the streets are by alt-left Antifa/BLM types.  

Starbucks on fire.......hey look there are alt-right groups too!  They might not have started this fire, but, they are white supremacists!
Click to expand...
That's also an interesting strawman you've constructed.

Right wing violence vs left wing violence

In the last 25 years

Right wing violence deaths: 329

Antifa: 0

 
tonydead said:
While true, surely you see this for the strawman it is when all the "peaceful" protesting happening in the streets are by alt-left Antifa/BLM types.  

Starbucks on fire.......hey look there are alt-right groups too!  They might not have started this fire, but, they are white supremacists!
Click to expand...
A majority of the protests across the country have been peaceful, however, that is not how it's being portrayed by the media. They have sensationalized it so that people literally think Portland is burning, which is just is just a complete fabrication of the truth. For example, the opposing protest by BLM during the Proud Boys rally was 3 to 4 times the size of the proud boys and there was no violence, rioting, etc. But that doesn't get covered.

 
Kind of forgot about this until now, given the train wreck of the whole thing, but am I misremembering that at one point Biden was talking about how he was going to "eliminate the Trump tax cuts that only helped the rich" and Trump cut in to say "Good!"? They're his tax cuts, if he thinks it is wrong to help out the wealthy at the expense of the poor, why did he do it? Why doesn't he eliminate them?

 
  • Smile
Reactions: JAA
I still cant believe the line about 1 in 1000 African American's die from Covid-19.  That is a staggering statistic.

Ive been continuing to read about it, looking for it to be a fake stat.  Even a Kentucky paper today said it fact checked out.

 
gianmarco said:
That's also an interesting strawman you've constructed.

Right wing violence vs left wing violence

In the last 25 years

Right wing violence deaths: 329

Antifa: 0
Click to expand...
That's not a strawman.  A strawman is pointing to 25 years of history instead of what is happening in 2020 right before your eyes.  If you want to play strawman history the Democratic Party was the party of the "common man", it opposed the abolition of slavery.  See how that works, silly isn't it?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JAA said:
I still cant believe the line about 1 in 1000 African American's die from Covid-19.  That is a staggering statistic.

Ive been continuing to read about it, looking for it to be a fake stat.  Even a Kentucky paper today said it fact checked out.
Click to expand...
Wow.  That is true.

Edit: 200,000/328,000,000 is .0006 so I guess I shouldn't be that surprised.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JAA said:
I still cant believe the line about 1 in 1000 African American's die from Covid-19.  That is a staggering statistic.

Ive been continuing to read about it, looking for it to be a fake stat.  Even a Kentucky paper today said it fact checked out.
Click to expand...
Black Americans have been disproportionately hurt by the coronavirus pandemic. Right now, Black Americans account for 20.9% of all deaths from COVID-19, according to the CDC. That percentage means that 43,000 of the total 205,000 U.S. coronavirus-related deaths have been Black people. With 43.9 million Black people in the United States, according to July 2019 population estimates, that means the rate of death from COVID among Black Americans is about 1 in 1,022. That is a massive and tragic number.

Time Magazine Link

 
tonydead said:
That's not a strawman.  A strawman is pointing to 25 years of history instead of what is happening in 2020 right before your eyes.  If you want to play strawman history the Democratic Party was the party of the "common man", it opposed the abolition of slavery.  See how that works, silly isn't it?
Click to expand...
A strawman is pointing to 2020 while conveniently omitting Charlottesville, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, the El Paso Walmart shooting, the Oakland "Boogaloo" shootings, or the dozens of other examples of right-wing violence which have occurred on Trump's watch.

 
Joe Summer said:
A strawman is pointing to 2020 while conveniently omitting Charlottesville, the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting, the El Paso Walmart shooting, the Oakland "Boogaloo" shootings, or the dozens of other examples of right-wing violence which have occurred on Trump's watch.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see where you're missing the point now.  Here is the exact question from Chris Wallace:

You have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out Antifa and other left wing extremist groups. But are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.
Click to expand...
It was a question in a series under the Debate Topic of “Race and Violence in our Cities” here is how he started off the segment:

And I want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent in Portland, Oregon, especially we had more than a 100 straight days of protests, which I think you would agree, you talk about peaceful protests. Many of those turned into riots.
Click to expand...
As you can see he was talking about the last 100 days and specifically violence that has resulted from BLM organized protests.  He specifically listed the events in Kenosha and Portland.

Biden bringing up Proud Boys is ok,  I guess, since they did show up once recently at a Portland protest.  But in general alt-right, and white supremacy for sure, is a big strawman stemming from the discussion that was happening. 

 
KarmaPolice said:
I thought he said "you're a #2" as well when I was watching live.  
Click to expand...
That's what my son thought as well, so we actually rewound it while we were watching.  My one [Trump leaning] coworker thought the same thing.  So I guess the takeaway is Trump doesn't annunciate very well and also him calling Biden a pile of dung is viewed as in character.

Maurile Tremblay said:
This seems right.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311320519787110402
Click to expand...
Agreed.  After watching it three times I'm convinced he was saying "you were on #2" to needle Biden for skipping point 2.

 
The far-right Proud Boys group whom Donald Trump told to “stand by” during this week’s presidential debate is seen as a dangerous organization by law enforcement, according to leaked assessments of the organization from federal, state and local agencies.

Trump’s refusal to condemn white supremacists during the debate, and his suggestion that the Proud Boys “stand by” during the current 2020 election campaign sent shockwaves through American politics. The Southern Poverty Law Center calls the Proud Boys a hate group.

Files from the Blueleaks trove of leaked law enforcement documents reveal warnings that the Proud Boys, who some of the US agencies label as “white supremacists” and “extremists”, and others as a “gang”, show persistent concerns about the group’s menace to minority groups and even police officers, and its dissemination of dangerous conspiracy theories.

Repeated warnings about the Proud Boys, and descriptions of them as a dangerous white supremacist group, were issued by members of the national network of counter-terrorist fusion centers. The Colorado Information Analysis Center (CIAC) showed particular, repeated concerns about the group, and their activities in that state.

In a 22-page 2019 document titled Violent Extremism in Colorado: a Reference Guide for Law Enforcement, published by CIAC, the state’s division of homeland security, and the Colorado department of public safety, various incidents of violence involving the Proud Boys are discussed under the heading of White Supremacist Extremism.

On page 15 of the document, the group is discussed in terms of the “threat to Colorado” from white supremacist extremists, and the “concern that white supremacist extremists will continue attacking members of the community who threaten their belief of Caucasian superiority”.

In illustrating this threat, the document reports on local members of the neo-Nazi group Atomwaffen Division, and Charlottesville’s deadly Unite the Right rally, but also offers that “there have been several incidents in Colorado between the Proud Boys and Rocky Mountain Antifa, to include violent clashes at protests”, and “two members of the Proud Boys were convicted of assaulting Antifa members during a 2018 fight in New York”.

Two pages later, the same document incorporates the Proud Boys, along with Atomwaffen, the Soldiers of Odin, and skinhead groups such as the Hammerskins in a list titled White Supremacist Groups with a Presence in Colorado.

Later, CIAC pointed to the group as a source of Covid-19 conspiracy theories. On 10 May this year, in a bulletin on Covid-19 Protest Disinformation Campaigns, CIAC described how “the Proud Boys, a far-right extremist group, has been active in spreading conspiracy theories regarding Covid-19 on Twitter, Facebook, and Telegram”, suggesting that “a faction of elites are weaponizing the virus, and a vaccine would likely be a tool for population control and mind control”.

The bulletin also warns that “spread of disinformation has the potential to cause civil unrest and mass panic”.

Agencies have defined the Proud Boys as a threat throughout most of their active existence.

As early as August 2018, a brief from another fusion center, the Northern California Regional Intelligence Center (NCRIC), summarizes a report of rightwing groups gathering weapons before a rally. The basis for the warning is a July call from a named man to the Berkeley police department, expressing concern about someone who he knew “who is allegedly a member of the right-wing group called Proud Boys” who is “gathering masks, helmets, and guns and would have absolute war with the liberals at an event scheduled to take place in Berkeley on August 5, 2018”.

A much-heralded Say No to Marxism rally was held in the city that day, and saw the Proud Boys and their allies outnumbered by counter-protesters.

Mike Sena, executive director of NCRIC, told the Guardian that “everyone’s absolutely entitled to their freedom of speech”, but that “violence is a crime”, and that this kind of intelligence was passed to partners when “people mention the possibility of going to an event with weapons”.

In 2019, the Texas-based fusion center, the Austin Regional Intelligence Center, warned in a Special Event Threat Assessment of potential dangers to the Austin Pride Parade.

It identified the Proud Boys as being associated with a “growing backlash against Pride Month [which] has emerged in the form of the Straight Pride movement”, noting that “on 28 June 2019, a Trans Pride parade event in Seattle, Washington was disrupted by the alt-right Proud Boys organization”.

There is also evidence of concern about the group from local agencies, some of whom define the Proud Boys as a gang.

In 2019, a flyer from the Orange county, California, probation department advertised a “One Day Law Enforcement Training” day covering “white gangs”.

In one session of the training day on 19 April, the flyer said, two probation officers would “delve into ideological groups including KKK in Orange county as well as other hate groups/gangs including RAM (Rise Above Movement), Proud Boys, Traditionalist Worker’s Party, Hammerskins, WAR, and cover Antifa and sovereign citizens”.
Click to expand...
:coffee:

 
Dr_Zaius said:
That's what my son thought as well, so we actually rewound it while we were watching.  My one [Trump leaning] coworker thought the same thing.  So I guess the takeaway is Trump doesn't annunciate very well and also him calling Biden a pile of dung is viewed as in character.

Agreed.  After watching it three times I'm convinced he was saying "you were on #2" to needle Biden for skipping point 2.
Click to expand...


I think this speaks to the mental decline/mental capacity people have been discussing between the two candidates.   One has trouble counting to 3 and even remembering what number he was on.  The other, in the middle of trying to make his own point, immediately picks up on it.

Vice President Joe Biden: (20:57)
Yeah, because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole. Manufacturing went in a hole-

President Donald J. Trump: (21:04)
Excuse me, Chris, wait.

Vice President Joe Biden: (21:05)
… number one. Number two-

President Donald J. Trump: (21:06)
Chris.

Vice President Joe Biden: (21:06)
Number three.

President Donald J. Trump: (21:07)
They said it would take… No, you’re on number two.

Vice President Joe Biden: (21:09)
No.

 
tonydead said:
I think this speaks to the mental decline/mental capacity people have been discussing between the two candidates.   One has trouble counting to 3 and even remembering what number he was on.  The other, in the middle of trying to make his own point, immediately picks up on it.

Vice President Joe Biden: (20:57)
Yeah, because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole. Manufacturing went in a hole-

President Donald J. Trump: (21:04)
Excuse me, Chris, wait.

Vice President Joe Biden: (21:05)
… number one. Number two-

President Donald J. Trump: (21:06)
Chris.

Vice President Joe Biden: (21:06)
Number three.

President Donald J. Trump: (21:07)
They said it would take… No, you’re on number two.

Vice President Joe Biden: (21:09)
No.
Click to expand...
Let's not praise the mental capacity of the guy who responded that he wants immaculate water when asked about his beliefs on the science of climate change too much.  

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
​ 👨🏻‍🦳👩🏾 ​ 2020 Vice Presidential Debate - October 7 - 9:00PM ET
12 13 14
Replies
650
Views
12K
gianmarco
gianmarco
GordonGekko
Will The GOP Push For A Nation Wide Federal Abortion Ban When It Attains Needed Majorities? (7/2/22 12:11 PST)
Replies
0
Views
249
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
GordonGekko
Newsweek: "Democrats Have Forgotten The Working Class. It Will Cost Them" (7/14/22 14:39 PST)
Replies
19
Views
937
GordonGekko
GordonGekko

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top