14 yr old shot from 30 ft away;shooter claims Stand Your Ground (1 Viewer)

[matttyl]

Well, according to the statute for burglary in Louisiana it does, and that's what he'd be charged under. If he were being charged under wikipedia law, you'd have a great point.

No, as I pointed out above, he still would not.

 

[Chaka]

Not according to the FBI (or wiki or legal dictionary for that matter) but the point is that the target was likely the car and not the home. That is a big distinction.

Um, yes it is....

Cut and paste, direct from wiki (which apparently you didn't read and/or comprehend).

United StatesBurglary is prosecuted as a felony or misdemeanor and involves trespassing and theft, entering a building or automobile, or loitering unlawfully with intent to commit any crime, not necessarily a theft – for example, vandalism.

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines burglary as the unlawful entry of a structure to commit a felony or theft. To classify an offense as a burglary, the use of force to gain entry need not have occurred. The UCR Program has three subclassifications for burglary: forcible entry, unlawful entry where no force is used, and attempted forcible entry. The UCR definition of “structure” includes apartment, barn, house trailer or houseboat when used as a permanent dwelling, office, railroad car (but not automobile), stable, and vessel (i.e., ship).

That's great (even if you are posting incomplete info from that page) which is why I pointed to the actual FBI definition and made wiki a sidebar. But glad to see you are choosing wiki as your primary source.Either way you and Henry choosing to ignore that the likely target was the car and not the house.

 

[Zow]

You're not examining the practicality of what the law is asking the prosecution to do.

No, I am. The law is asking a jury to decide what they think. Why is that wrong?

Look, I'm done. If you don't see it you're not going to. Peace.

Clifford, you above already claimed to "see it". You said yourself that you find it reasonable to think that the HO was in fear for his life or of harm. Therefore you must find him innocent of any murder charge.

So you're saying the law should be changed. Ok, to what? Why is it wrong to ask a jury of someone's peers if they think that a person's actions are reasonable or not? The burden of proof is always on the prosecution, are you going to change that to a "guilty until proven innocent" situation?

I posted the above case from Texas as with it the person's actions were not deemed reasonable to the jury. Maybe (likely) in this case they will be.

HO finds intruder on his property at 2 AM who doesn't comply with his command to freeze. Not sure we have to go any further than that on the "reality of the situation". The intruder had already committed one crime (trespassing) and was likely in the midst of committing another (burglary), and given the "reality of the situation" the HO could easily have believed his life was in danger.

If the kid hadn't been attempting to steal, he wouldn't have been shot. If the kid hadn't trespassed, he wouldn't have been shot. If his mother/brother had kept a better eye on him and made sure he wasn't out at 2 AM that morning, he wouldn't have been shot. But you're right - it's the homeowner's fault.

Burglary implies entering the home when this case looks like it was the car. That is an important distinction.

You can say whatever you want about what it implies, but the legal definition includes vehicles.

Not according to the FBI (or wiki or legal dictionary for that matter) but the point is that the target was likely the car and not the home. That is a big distinction.

oy vey

 

[Henry Ford]

Not according to the FBI (or wiki or legal dictionary for that matter) but the point is that the target was likely the car and not the home. That is a big distinction.

Um, yes it is....Cut and paste, direct from wiki (which apparently you didn't read and/or comprehend). United States

Burglary is prosecuted as a felony or misdemeanor and involves trespassing and theft, entering a building or automobile, or loitering unlawfully with intent to commit any crime, not necessarily a theft for example, vandalism.

The FBIs Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines burglary as the unlawful entry of a structure to commit a felony or theft. To classify an offense as a burglary, the use of force to gain entry need not have occurred. The UCR Program has three subclassifications for burglary: forcible entry, unlawful entry where no force is used, and attempted forcible entry. The UCR definition of structure includes apartment, barn,

house trailer or houseboat when used as a permanent dwelling, office, railroad car (but not automobile), stable, and vessel (i.e., ship).

That's great (even if you are posting incomplete info from that page) which is why I pointed to the actual FBI definition and made wiki a sidebar. But glad to see you are choosing wiki as your primary source.Either way you and Henry choosing to ignore that the likely target was the car and not the house.

...and if there's only a 25% chance that he's there to murder you and your family, you have no business pulling a gun.

 

[matttyl]

But glad to see you are choosing wiki as your primary source

I'm not, you're the one quoting it as a source, and you apparently did so without even reading it. Our source would be the law of LA (you know, where the crime was committed), which says that you can burglarize a car.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

For one thing the child's own brother called him a professional thief.

For another, New Orleans' police are vastly underfunded. Chances are someone somewhere high up contributing to those who count are making money off the drug trade (and the murder) but that's another story.

New Orleans needs something like 33%-100% more police. This place is probably (bear with me) somewhat equivalent to (sorry) Baghdad and Iraq after Bush Jr. and Cheney went in - there was force to lay down the law, but not enough of it, security is a huge problem here.

Meanwhile you can live in much of this city and never be affected by it. There is so much murder here it is crazy, but typically it is criminal on criminal in terms of who gets hurt, but not always. I have no idea why it takes something like this to get the attention of a city, a state, a nation, but there it is. What you folks have been discussing has been going on a long time here, like over a hundred years.

Corruption is really at the center of it. But there is one other element that's been added - since the storm we have rediscovered our city and many people of professional and educated and entrepreneurial backgrounds are moving into once impoverished areas, and thus we see the conflict of people with different expectations with those who have been in the neighborhoods for a while who have often treated the idea of demanding better security and safer streets with suspicion because it meant calling for more police.

I don't know what to tell you all, but for starters this isn't Orlando, it's not the south and it's just barely America and you can take your national agendas and kick them out the discussion because they have no place here.

 

[timschochet]

For one thing the child's own brother called him a professional thief.

For another, New Orleans' police are vastly underfunded. Chances are someone somewhere high up contributing to those who count are making money off the drug trade (and the murder) but that's another story.

New Orleans needs something like 33%-100% more police. This place is probably (bear with me) somewhat equivalent to (sorry) Baghdad and Iraq after Bush Jr. and Cheney went in - there was force to lay down the law, but not enough of it, security is a huge problem here.

Meanwhile you can live in much of this city and never be affected by it. There is so much murder here it is crazy, but typically it is criminal on criminal in terms of who gets hurt, but not always. I have no idea why it takes something like this to get the attention of a city, a state, a nation, but there it is. What you folks have been discussing has been going on a long time here, like over a hundred years.

Corruption is really at the center of it. But there is one other element that's been added - since the storm we have rediscovered our city and many people of professional and educated and entrepreneurial backgrounds are moving into once impoverished areas, and thus we see the conflict of people with different expectations with those who have been in the neighborhoods for a while who have often treated the idea of demanding better security and safer streets with suspicion because it meant calling for more police.

I don't know what to tell you all, but for starters this isn't Orlando, it's not the south and it's just barely America and you can take your national agendas and kick them out the discussion because they have no place here.

And yet tourists are safe, right? I've never heard of anyone visiting New Orleans for the great food and music having to worry about crime.

If it's like Iraq, then it's like Iraq with Paris right in the middle of it.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

For one thing the child's own brother called him a professional thief.

For another, New Orleans' police are vastly underfunded. Chances are someone somewhere high up contributing to those who count are making money off the drug trade (and the murder) but that's another story.

New Orleans needs something like 33%-100% more police. This place is probably (bear with me) somewhat equivalent to (sorry) Baghdad and Iraq after Bush Jr. and Cheney went in - there was force to lay down the law, but not enough of it, security is a huge problem here.

Meanwhile you can live in much of this city and never be affected by it. There is so much murder here it is crazy, but typically it is criminal on criminal in terms of who gets hurt, but not always. I have no idea why it takes something like this to get the attention of a city, a state, a nation, but there it is. What you folks have been discussing has been going on a long time here, like over a hundred years.

Corruption is really at the center of it. But there is one other element that's been added - since the storm we have rediscovered our city and many people of professional and educated and entrepreneurial backgrounds are moving into once impoverished areas, and thus we see the conflict of people with different expectations with those who have been in the neighborhoods for a while who have often treated the idea of demanding better security and safer streets with suspicion because it meant calling for more police.

I don't know what to tell you all, but for starters this isn't Orlando, it's not the south and it's just barely America and you can take your national agendas and kick them out the discussion because they have no place here.

And yet tourists are safe, right? I've never heard of anyone visiting New Orleans for the great food and music having to worry about crime.

If it's like Iraq, then it's like Iraq with Paris right in the middle of it.

I said bear with me.

I don't think anyone has ever compared New Orleans to Paris. Well maybe Pigalle.

The Vieux Carre is more like the Green Zone, a safe secure oasis but bad things happen there nonetheleess to tourists and citizens alike. People get shot on Bourbon Street from time to time, sometimes bullets are sprayed. It's changed a lot the last few years too.

the key term is the "sliver by the river." New Orleans has very thin slices of neighborhoods which are desirable in terms of safety and property values, and yet just a few blocks away there can be some very bad stuff. The Bywater where this incident happened is an example of a place where property values have risen sometimes 300+%, and yet just down the block to a few blocks away there is classic US poverty replete with the usual crime horror stories. - Just recently there was a carjacking on Marigny Street.

To give you an idea, the NOPD stopped giving out real crime maps a few years ago. They no longer give incident info to websites that want to keep track voluntarily either. No one really knows what's going on here, but they most especially keep the information from the tourists.

To give a further idea, we are under not one but two different federal consent decrees orders - one for the NOPD, the other for the Orleans Parish Sheriff's office (ie OPP, the prison y'all).

For instance this thread didn't get 19 pages of attention, nope:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=680380&hl=gusman#entry15446115

Would you say from that that crime is teencie bit out of control here? That's the prison.

Now having said that, please do visit with your family and we look forward to the next Super Bowl or BCS Championship game.

Everything's fine.

 

[timschochet]

To be honest, there may be no city in America that I look more forward to visiting eventually than New Orleans. My two favorite things in life, outside of my loved ones, are great food and great music.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

To be honest, there may be no city in America that I look more forward to visiting eventually than New Orleans. My two favorite things in life, outside of my loved ones, are great food and great music.

Well truly, God Bless You, we are and will always be about living life in the face of all odds against us.

Many thanks. Enjoy, we're open 24/7/365.

 

[matttyl]

To be honest, there may be no city in America that I look more forward to visiting eventually than New Orleans. My two favorite things in life, outside of my loved ones, are great food and great music.

Eat beignets. Lots of them. Don't wear black when you do it.

Try aligator, if nothing else just to say you've tried it.

Go on a ghost tour, as hokie as it sounds.

Many bars on Bourbon street have 3 for 1 happy hours. I enjoy doing that, and sitting up on one of the balconies overlooking the street and playing "daughter or hooker".

 

[Doug B]

Generally, crime in New Orleans is not random. It's not randomly scattered geographically -- there are very well defined hot spots to which tourists rarely ever venture.

 

[Doug B]

Grand jury convenes, take no action in Merritt Landry case

The linked article is two weeks old. The grand jury actually convened twice in February, and both times declined to return an indictment. As I understand it, the law in Louisiana grants municipal district attorneys the right to procede with a criminal case without a grand jury indictment (link). While I wouldn't say Landry is out of the legal woods yet, it's looking a lot better for him now than it did last summer.

 

[daddo39]

Jeez, glad I dont live in Louisiana

You might want to stay out of Texas also.

BK I appreciate messing with you but seriously I don't ever expect to have to shoot anyone, but if I or my wife have to defend ourselves or each other we will do that. A lot of people consider it living in a state of paranoia but we consider it being prepared.

A lot of bad stuff happens out there by blacks, whites, hispanics, white-blacks, black-whites, white hispanics and even white-asians and asian-blacks. Dude I don't care which category you fall into, if you come in my yard/house you are in my element not yours.

gun owners are definitely in a cult all unto themselves built on righteous paranoia. Lets hope you`re right and you never have to shoot someone for standing on your lawn

Gun owners are not by any means a cult and if by "righteous paranoia" you mean some kind of religious thing, you are way off base with me. I would never shoot someone for standing on my lawn, but don't cross that 21 foot line without some kind of plausible explanation.

Truth is, I would probably be the victim because I am too trusting, even to white-hispanics.

by righteous paranoia i mean you feel justified in thinking there is a boogeyman around every corner that wants nothing more than to hurt you...and he deserves whatever he gets ...a bullet to the head preferably

One of the most asinine posts I've ever read

 

[daddo39]

BTW, based on these sketchy facts the shooter regardless of race is in deep doodoo.

Not sure you're right. This same claim has been used all the time by policeman. Whenever a kid ends up dead, we're told they were reaching for something, and the police thought it was a gun, so they fired first. Logically, why wouldn't a homeowner also be able to fire first based on the same conditions?

A policeman has had training and is expected to be a better judge of whether someone is armed. If the average untrained person is allowed to use SYG with the excuse 'I thought he was reaching for a gun' then it's a license to kill.

Reminded me of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ins9VAo-xLY

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Jeez, glad I dont live in Louisiana

You might want to stay out of Texas also.

BK I appreciate messing with you but seriously I don't ever expect to have to shoot anyone, but if I or my wife have to defend ourselves or each other we will do that. A lot of people consider it living in a state of paranoia but we consider it being prepared.

A lot of bad stuff happens out there by blacks, whites, hispanics, white-blacks, black-whites, white hispanics and even white-asians and asian-blacks. Dude I don't care which category you fall into, if you come in my yard/house you are in my element not yours.

gun owners are definitely in a cult all unto themselves built on righteous paranoia. Lets hope you`re right and you never have to shoot someone for standing on your lawn

Gun owners are not by any means a cult and if by "righteous paranoia" you mean some kind of religious thing, you are way off base with me. I would never shoot someone for standing on my lawn, but don't cross that 21 foot line without some kind of plausible explanation.

Truth is, I would probably be the victim because I am too trusting, even to white-hispanics.

by righteous paranoia i mean you feel justified in thinking there is a boogeyman around every corner that wants nothing more than to hurt you...and he deserves whatever he gets ...a bullet to the head preferably

One of the most asinine posts I've ever read

you must not read many gun threads in here ...feel free to peruse the many convo`s and get back to me

 

[Henry Ford]

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/05/teenager_shot_by_marigny_homeo.html

 

[Dr Oadi]

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/05/teenager_shot_by_marigny_homeo.html

SYG laws scarred the poor lad and turned him into a criminal.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

19 pages on this thing, incredible.

A grand jury would not even indict Landry, teh shooter, think about that. In NO at least you can indict a ham sandwich via the GJ.

The burglar, Coulter, is out of treatment.... and burglarizing again.

The older brother who made excuses for the burglar, the one whom Ford reported seeing the facebook page firing off a gun? He's in jail on felony gun possession charges. Anti gun advocates are for that, right, jail time for illegal possession of firearms?

There are probably very few to no people in this thread who have ever lived in a neighborhood like the Marigny - 150-200+ year old homes, close to each other, Euro style courtyards, part of the gentrification argument but also a mix of blacks and whites and income levels. This is maybe literally the first suburb or subdivision in America yet people like Landry have been pioneers in a modern city that was almost wiped off the map, investing their time, savings, and even potentially their life.

Coulter, the burglar, was seen by the owner of a well known restaurant, the Marigny Brasserie, going through a neighbor's mailbox. The Marigny Brasserie is one of those places that help turn neighborhoods around, this is a business owner who has made a commitment to the neighborhood and the city and now Frenchman is a thriving area once little known but now getting on the tourist map. - Rifling through a mailbox is a federal crime of course. The owner confronted the kid, Coulter ignored him and just proceeded to throw mail in the alley right in front of the restaurant owner. Later it turns out he found a key in there, he walks into the house and makes himself at home.

Coulter has also recently been arrested for a burglary on Royal, IIRC not long before the Landry incident. This kid had been a career burglar before all this started, nothing has changed.

This is not a true SYG law. People in NO & LA cannot shoot people indiscriminately anywhere on the streets or elsewhere because they feel threatened. People commenting here have no idea what it's like to live in NO, where there are maybe (they say) 1100 cops for a city with one of the highest murder and crime rates in the country. These days 911 calls are not answered immediately, if they are the dispatcher may tell you to hold your water, or ask you if you really need a cop right away. The judges and magistrates are corrupt by and large, they can call in a release by bond by phone at the request of a defense attorney who may likely have given campaign (and maybe other) contributions, releasing a multiple offender whose case is not even in his court. There is probably not a commenter here who can honestly say they have lived in a city or place with this unusual set of circumstances. This story does not belong in the same conversation as what happened to Travon Martin.

 

[Henry Ford]

Yup.

 

[Henry Ford]

I forgot there was this thread where matttyl and I agreed completely on something.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Fine young 15 year old... Kid is a role model, parents must be proud

 

[Henry Ford]

Fine young 15 year old... Kid is a role model, parents must be proud

Even more than that - if this kid committed a recent burglary, I think we can safely say he's never going to learn anything. If getting shot in the head doesn't deter you from breaking and entering for at least a year or two, I think we should just assume you're an idiot.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Fine young 15 year old... Kid is a role model, parents must be proud

Even more than that - if this kid committed a recent burglary, I think we can safely say he's never going to learn anything. If getting shot in the head doesn't deter you from breaking and entering for at least a year or two, I think we should just assume you're an idiot.

One million percent agreed.

 

[Jobber]

Hopefully someone gets to finish the job

 

[ATC1]

It's not his fault. The head shot caused brain damage.

 

[cstu]

People commenting here have no idea what it's like to live in NO, where there are maybe (they say) 1100 cops for a city with one of the highest murder and crime rates in the country. These days 911 calls are not answered immediately, if they are the dispatcher may tell you to hold your water, or ask you if you really need a cop right away. The judges and magistrates are corrupt by and large, they can call in a release by bond by phone at the request of a defense attorney who may likely have given campaign (and maybe other) contributions, releasing a multiple offender whose case is not even in his court. There is probably not a commenter here who can honestly say they have lived in a city or place with this unusual set of circumstances.

Surprising considering that it sounds like such a lovely city to live in.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

People commenting here have no idea what it's like to live in NO, where there are maybe (they say) 1100 cops for a city with one of the highest murder and crime rates in the country. These days 911 calls are not answered immediately, if they are the dispatcher may tell you to hold your water, or ask you if you really need a cop right away. The judges and magistrates are corrupt by and large, they can call in a release by bond by phone at the request of a defense attorney who may likely have given campaign (and maybe other) contributions, releasing a multiple offender whose case is not even in his court. There is probably not a commenter here who can honestly say they have lived in a city or place with this unusual set of circumstances.

Surprising considering that it sounds like such a lovely city to live in.

Well, thanks, it is lovely, and we have shown a lot of mettle that we never knew we had since Katrina. But the crime and corruption problem has been here a long, long time. Not far away from where Coulter was shot there was a fimmaker who was murdered at her door. It led to the founding of this group. What can I say it's a city of contradictions.

http://silenceisviolence.org/about/