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2015 Oakland Raiders Thread (1 Viewer)

Chadstroma said:
Chaka said:
I was still thoroughly unimpressed with Carr's decision making. He just never seemed like he was even making a read that was more than 6 yards downfield. He may have a cannon and he may be able to make all the throws and all that jibber-jabber but if he doesn't challenge defenses on the field then the Raiders can expect more outcomes like what happened yesterday.
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I was looking at the box score and two things struck me. First, no WR/TE had double digit total average yards. Second, that was mostly McGloin throwing.
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I was talking about before Carr went down. But McGloin was arguably worse at challenging the defense yesterday.

 
Chaka said:
Hankmoody said:
Chaka said:
This is sad but let's not go overboard with the doom and gloom. Cincinnati is a 4x running playoff team with among the best offensive and defensive lines in the league. The Raiders, for all the positivity, were always going to be a work in progress this season. They were never serious playoff contenders. 8-8 would be progress and kind of a win for the team and the fan base and that is still well within reach. Let's give it some time and not head for the life boats just yet.
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Is this a joke? Carr was awful, Hayden was awful, the O line got demolished, the receivers looked like Pop Warner players, the secondary got demolished, the LB got demolished. There wasn't anything resembling progress today. That run by Carr was the perfect microcosm. He had the first down, all he needed was the awareness to duck and dive to the corner. Instead he rumbles head-on into the tackler, a fight he's never going to win, get the ball knocked backward for not a first down, and hurts himself. I've never seen such a debacle driven purely by lack of spatial awareness. That's what laymen call "clumsy" and that, ladies and gentlemen, is our QB of the future.
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Settle down Bobby Knight. No one is handing out awards. The point is that anyone who thought this wasn't a legitimate potential outcome for this game simply was deluding themselves. The dearth of talent is still there and you have yet another coach with new offensive and defensive systems. The problem is with your expectations; it's fine to hold them to a higher standard but you're doing it in a vacuum you also have to temper your expectations with a dose of reality. Abandoning ship now is a failure to recognize that the ship sank in 2003 and they while they may have gotten it off the ocean floor it's still miles under water.

Take a deep breath bump your high standards against a little reality (that should be easy today) and let's see how this season unfolds.
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No need to be condesecnding there chief. I said just a page or two ago in this thread 8-8 was a pipe dream, I was hardly kidding myself. My expectations were that this team wasn't going to be an utter debacle this year. That's it. Just don't embarrass yourselves. Be competitive in any given week, don't lay down and die. That's a pretty tempered set of expectations befitting of a Raider fan. And yet they went out and did just that. The higher standard I'm holding them to is to get off the list of candidates for Most Disfunctional Franchise. There are 31 other fan bases out there for whom this would get people talking about cleaning house, yet here people are dismissing it. No wonder nothing changes, people just accept this as status quo.

You said it yourself, the ship sank in 2003. That was TWELVE YEARS ago. How many current Raiders were even pros then? 4? What % of NFL players were active then? 10%? That's super - 90% of the NFL rosters have observed nothing but incompetence from this once great franchise.

 
ICON211 said:
Almost everyone must have been delusional then. No one expected to get utterly dominated in that fashion. The Bengals are a good team, but they are not a great team. The offensive and defensive schemes left a lot to be desired. The Bengals were never challenged down the field. The defense put no real pressure on Dalton. The game was over in the first quarter. The players even seemed shell shocked after the game. That was as poor a performance as a team could possible have to start a season and about as demoralizing as a loss can be. It's one thing to go out and lose, it's another to look completely incompetent and get dominated from start to finish in your home opener with a new coaching staff.
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I agree that what happened yesterday was pretty much inexcusable but I just don't think it was that surprising. Personally going into the game I thought they were going to lose by about 14 (sadly they failed to meet or exceed even my meager expectations). But while the Raiders were pathetic and seemed to quit I just think people are wildly underestimating the quality of the Raiders and even more-so the quality of opponent they were facing.

I think the line yesterday was something like Oak +3.5 but betting lines are only a reflection of the way people are betting not of what Vegas truly thinks about the game.

Cinci has a top 5 offensive line (one that is seasoned and very deep) and maybe a top 5 defensive line as well and it showed. For all of our offseason optimism no on the planet should have thought that we had the lines to match up with those guys for 60 minutes. They have all of their offensive weapons healthy (having Jones and particularly Eifert back to compliment Green is huge for that offense). Dalton may not be a world beater but he is a strong veteran with a history of putting up stats and wins.

Raider fans should have expected a pretty lousy outcome, not one as bad as it turned out but still something bad.

I am still down on Carr, and Musgrave, but even I think it is too early to abandon ship on this particular team. Advocating nuking the team and starting over after the first game seems reactionary and hyperbolic.

 
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Chaka said:
ICON211 said:
Almost everyone must have been delusional then. No one expected to get utterly dominated in that fashion. The Bengals are a good team, but they are not a great team. The offensive and defensive schemes left a lot to be desired. The Bengals were never challenged down the field. The defense put no real pressure on Dalton. The game was over in the first quarter. The players even seemed shell shocked after the game. That was as poor a performance as a team could possible have to start a season and about as demoralizing as a loss can be. It's one thing to go out and lose, it's another to look completely incompetent and get dominated from start to finish in your home opener with a new coaching staff.
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I agree that what happened yesterday was pretty much inexcusable but I just don't think it was that surprising. Personally going into the game I thought they were going to lose by about 14 (sadly they failed to meet or exceed even my meager expectations). But while the Raiders were pathetic and seemed to quit I just think people are wildly underestimating the quality of the Raiders and even more-so the quality of opponent they were facing. I think the line yesterday was something like Oak +3.5 but betting lines are only a reflection of the way people are betting not of what Vegas truly thinks about the game.

Cinci has a top 5 offensive line (one that is seasoned and very deep) and maybe a top 5 defensive line as well and it showed. For all of our offseason optimism no on the planet should have thought that we had the lines to match up with those guys for 60 minutes. They have all of their offensive weapons healthy (having Jones and particularly Eifert back to compliment Green is huge for that offense). Dalton may not be a world beater but he is a strong veteran with a history of putting up stats and wins.

Raider fans should have expected a pretty lousy outcome, not one as bad as it turned out but still something bad.

I am still down on Carr, and Musgrave, but even I think it is too early to abandon ship on this particular team. Advocating nuking the team and starting over after the first game seems reactionary and hyperbolic.
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My frustration (and I know a lot of other fans agree) is there is no progress. They look just as bad as they did in last year's home opener against Houston, probably worse if that's possible. Nobody thought the Raiders were going to beat Cincy, but I think most of us were hoping for some signs of progress, or at least they belong in the same stadium as a good team. I don't care if it was Cincy, New England, Seattle or Jacksonville. We fans deserve a competitive team. We surely deserve a better product than the one that got laughed out of their own stadium on opening day. That fact alone shocking enough. This team was so unprepared to play is the most disappointing and frustrating part. No one expected a win yesterday. I believe we all just wanted to see a Raider team play hard and be competitive against another good, solid opponent. That's how far the Raider Nation's standards have declined. And they couldn't even come close to those low standards. It's a shame. Perfect example, my buddy was at the game, tailgating outside the parking lot gates at 7am, later with 1000s of other fans who paid their hard-earned money to see the new Raiders. They were amped up for a new season, I was told that old buzz was in the air again, people were excited! So what to the Raiders do? 3 and out on their opening drive. Then let the Bengals methodically drive down the field and score. The game was over! After the 1st 5 minutes! If Ray Ray could've made that tackle, that coliseum would have erupted like Mt Vesuvius. There were good folks at that game, some dealing with the loss of their homes, businesses and pets in the recent fires in northern California. All they wanted was a little ray of sunshine on an otherwise crappy summer. And their old Raiders couldn't show up for just one game. This isn't about stats, Carr's YPA, Kahlil Mack's sack totals. It's about wins. And to go over a decade without a winning record is inexcusable. Yeah its just one game. But that one game was somebody's day off work with his son. That one game was a family's escape for just few hours from dealing with tragedy. That one game a soldier just got back from over seas and the coliseum was his first choice to be. That one game proved to everyone the Raiders are same ol same ol.

 
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Bruno2 said:
There were good folks at that game, some dealing with the loss of their homes, businesses and pets in the recent fires in northern California. All they wanted was a little ray of sunshine on an otherwise crappy summer. And their old Raiders couldn't show up for just one game. This isn't about stats, Carr's YPA, Kahlil Mack's sack totals. It's about wins. And to go over a decade without a winning record is inexcusable. Yeah its just one game. But that one game was somebody's day off work with his son. That one game was a family's escape for just few hours from dealing with tragedy. That one game a soldier just got back from over seas and the coliseum was his first choice to be. That one game proved to everyone the Raiders are same ol same ol.
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There is a lot about your post that I agree with but don't you think most of this is just a bit over the top?

 
Chaka said:
Bruno2 said:
There were good folks at that game, some dealing with the loss of their homes, businesses and pets in the recent fires in northern California. All they wanted was a little ray of sunshine on an otherwise crappy summer. And their old Raiders couldn't show up for just one game. This isn't about stats, Carr's YPA, Kahlil Mack's sack totals. It's about wins. And to go over a decade without a winning record is inexcusable. Yeah its just one game. But that one game was somebody's day off work with his son. That one game was a family's escape for just few hours from dealing with tragedy. That one game a soldier just got back from over seas and the coliseum was his first choice to be. That one game proved to everyone the Raiders are same ol same ol.
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There is a lot about your post that I agree with but don't you think most of this is just a bit over the top?
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Ha! Maybe. I questioned writing that post. While it may be over the top, it's all true
 
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Who is the Backup RB for Oakland? Jones or Reece. Helu is taken in my league. Who do I pick up. I am a L. Murray Owner.

20 team dynasty.

 
Makes no sense giving away Butler for free like that. Unless Jack was going to waive him anyway. I don't trust this move. Hoping this move signals the return of Dre soon. And WR is the least of our many problems.

 
For me the trading away of a player is the one few true means of seeing how a team values that player. All the coach speak and opportunities in camp, or preseason games, etc. are all fluff and items of opportunity in specific situations.

When a swap of late round picks is enough for a team to walk away from a player, that speaks volumes.

 
Every time I really lay into the Raiders, they go and do something like this. Good win.

Crabtree looked like he had turned back the clock today. Looked better than in the preseason.

 
Garrett said:
Garrett said:
DA RAIDERS said:
carr starting?
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Yes.

Time to settle down and make some progress.
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..and they are doing that.

Carr has the offense under control. The defense just needs to make some plays.
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D couldn't stop Smith but adjusted to TE in 2nd half and stopped run pretty well. Came up big holding Balt to FG after late Carr pick with all 'mo' against them. Gave O a chance & Carr came through. Helluva pass to Crab on sideline. Huge bounceback by Carr & entire team after last week.

 
Good win...Carr had a good game....Cooper is the real deal...will be a playmaker for years for this team. It is also kind of cool that he and D. Carr are next door neighbors now as well.

 
Garrett said:
This is the only copy of this I could find; really just the first 40 seconds covers it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=Lnot3LNMzz0

...but hell if I don't want to keep watching the story unfold.
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The amazing thing is Carr didnt get the option of learning by watching how the NFL game is played as a rookie ...he was thrown in head first ...hes still learning ...this is a process and he looked pretty damn good today

 
Carr looked good today. Hopefully the start of more. Team needed this win badly, considering it's only week 2.

 
Love it. Throughout the whole game I was thinking to myself "THIS is what I was looking for. Win or lose, THIS is what I want to see right now". The win is icing on the cake. Carr looked in command, WR's looked formidable. D still sucks, that's a process to be expected, but they aren't quitting and that's all we can ask right now.

 
Hankmoody said:
Love it. Throughout the whole game I was thinking to myself "THIS is what I was looking for. Win or lose, THIS is what I want to see right now". The win is icing on the cake. Carr looked in command, WR's looked formidable. D still sucks, that's a process to be expected, but they aren't quitting and that's all we can ask right now.
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Exactly!
 
I can't believe they won. Carr showed some development and the offense looked good. But that defense... Yesh.

Giving up 30+ ppg and no sacks in two games.

 
Great win. Carr finally looked like a real NFL QB, I hope that it is a glimpse of things to come.

The defense is really struggling though. Where is the pass rush? I was expecting a big jump in that department even before they signed Aldon Smith but so far it still looks like a major weakness.

But the truly mind boggling thing is the penalties. 16 today. That's friggin ridiculous and completely unacceptable. How is it that no matter who comes in as the head coach that the Raiders consistently make boneheaded plays and appear to completely lack discipline? Very frustrating but it makes yesterday's victory even more impressive.

 
I picked the wrong week to bench Cooper and Murray. It was like a totally different team on offense from last week.

 
Great win. Offense looked MUCH better. Still a bit concerned that there does not seem to be much commitment to the run. The pass rush has to improve or giving up 30+ every week will be the norm.

 
Gr00vus said:
I picked the wrong week to bench Cooper and Murray. It was like a totally different team on offense from last week.
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Join the club. The saving grace is that the Raiders won. I am going to put Cooper in the line-up and just ride out the ups and downs now that we know there are ups.

Good to see Carr and Cooper have some success. Seem like good guys that work hard. Crabtree really surprised me. Thought he was done.

There will be some sacks next week. Too much talent for no sacks.

 
DocHolliday said:
Gr00vus said:
I picked the wrong week to bench Cooper and Murray. It was like a totally different team on offense from last week.
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Join the club. The saving grace is that the Raiders won. I am going to put Cooper in the line-up and just ride out the ups and downs now that we know there are ups.

Good to see Carr and Cooper have some success. Seem like good guys that work hard. Crabtree really surprised me. Thought he was done.

There will be some sacks next week. Too much talent for no sacks.
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Week 2 is too early to be playing match ups. I wait until after Week 4 before I start considering match ups.

 
DocHolliday said:
Gr00vus said:
I picked the wrong week to bench Cooper and Murray. It was like a totally different team on offense from last week.
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Join the club. The saving grace is that the Raiders won. I am going to put Cooper in the line-up and just ride out the ups and downs now that we know there are ups. Good to see Carr and Cooper have some success. Seem like good guys that work hard. Crabtree really surprised me. Thought he was done.

There will be some sacks next week. Too much talent for no sacks.
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There wasn't any sacks, but it was Mack coming off the the edge pressuring Flacco that made him force that INT to win the game. Mack is a difference maker.
 
BTW, do we give Carr the benefit of doubt for the pass he threw that got the PI call late in the game, but was intercepted? I know there was a penalty, but as a QB you can't count on the ref to throw the flag right? Otherwise, good to see him bounce back after the stupid INT.

 
Bruno2 said:
DocHolliday said:
Gr00vus said:
I picked the wrong week to bench Cooper and Murray. It was like a totally different team on offense from last week.
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Join the club. The saving grace is that the Raiders won. I am going to put Cooper in the line-up and just ride out the ups and downs now that we know there are ups. Good to see Carr and Cooper have some success. Seem like good guys that work hard. Crabtree really surprised me. Thought he was done.

There will be some sacks next week. Too much talent for no sacks.
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There wasn't any sacks, but it was Mack coming off the the edge pressuring Flacco that made him force that INT to win the game. Mack is a difference maker.
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Not sure why Balt didn't shift the guard over to help the tackle on the last play. Mack went one on one against the tackle and he kind of went around the edge while bull rushing him. The tackle could have easily went more outside and had the guard help on the interior since it was a three man rush which just kills me, I hate it. Whatever, GG Mack you are our defenses only hope :D

 
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No. 16 said:
BTW, do we give Carr the benefit of doubt for the pass he threw that got the PI call late in the game, but was intercepted? I know there was a penalty, but as a QB you can't count on the ref to throw the flag right? Otherwise, good to see him bounce back after the stupid INT.
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Penn commented after the game that the INT was his fault, as he allowed the defender to get close to Carr and mess up the mechanics of the throw. I took it as basically the equivalent of a tipped ball. Penn went on to state that Carr saved him with the game winning drive.

 
No. 16 said:
BTW, do we give Carr the benefit of doubt for the pass he threw that got the PI call late in the game, but was intercepted? I know there was a penalty, but as a QB you can't count on the ref to throw the flag right? Otherwise, good to see him bounce back after the stupid INT.
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I think we will see these type of issues surface as Carr's continues to develop. For instance, he under threw Crabs twice. The first under thrown pass looked like it could have been an easy TD if Carr had lead Crabs on the pass. His accuracy is still a little erratic but we are seeing improvement.

 
Looks like it was intentional....

Disaster nearly struck when Carr was intercepted inside the 10, but a defensive holding penalty reversed that turnover.

“As soon as I threw it, I was like, ‘OK, if they don’t call this, I’m going to be hot,” Carr said. “But they called it and they did a great job.”
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