Yeah Carr has games like this that his haters love to see. And really, it is up to him to figure out his issues with consistency. All QBs have bad games, but the horrible, God-awful games never should happen. Also, is it just me, but I swear the guy has small hands. They just look disproportionate to the rest of his body.
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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
The line didn't hold up as well. Two of the Carr fumbles he was in the process of throwing (but his hand wasn't moving forward yet) and ball got knocked out. One I missed from him early in the game so not sure. One was definitely Parker who got beat. I can't remember the other.
Jacobs lost one trying to get a couple extra yards with a defender lockjawed in his ankle. Coughed it up and sprained the ankle.
The pick 6 hurt like hell.
We had a silly number if penalties. It seemed like every time we had a good play it was nullified by an unrelated penalty. Kwiat had an INT that was erased for example.
A couple of questionable calls for sure. (Surprise!) But that just heaped on top of us playing like poo. We lost the game with plenty of margin before the bad calls would/could have made a difference.
5 turnovers and 10 (I think) penalties is going to kill most any team.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
2 of his 3 fumbles any and every QB would have coughed it up as well. Both had been hit with that part if the throwing motion that the ball is exposed but not yet moving forward to get that protection in the rules. The other... I don't know as I didn't see it. For those, I can't fault him. It wasn't him not protecting the ball or putting it at risk or having small hands. It was just "bad luck" in pass pro not holding up as well as it has all season and the Falcons hitting him at the wrong time. I have no idea what size hands he has.
kaso
Footballguy
Turned the game off in the 3rd quarter after the Jacobs fumble. Wow did that one hurt. Nothing more to add to this that already hasn't been said about the Raiders (poor performance, penalties, injuries, etc.). I will say that I was extremely impressed with the tackling and ball circling that the Falcons showed on the D side of the ball. I don't remember seeing a single snap where a Raider wasn't immediately with 2 or more Falcon tacklers.
My interest is in seeing how the Raiders respond from this.
My interest is in seeing how the Raiders respond from this.
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
What a complete steaming pile of dog$#!& of a game.
Blame a plenty to go around -- on Carr and his horrendous ball protection skills and truly poor passing decisions, a terrible game call, subpar performances from every group across O and D personnel, and a complete and utter lack of heart.
Even when they were down just two scores coming out of the half we weren't coming out with fire and conviction. This reminded me of the early 2000's teams that you could see literally give up in the middle of the game.
Putrid, horrid, and disgusting show. Totally agree @kaso -- measure will be in how this team responds.
However the real test of this team was this game -- a pretty much must-win game on the road against a sound but not spectacular team that proved we are good enough to control our own destiny.
We're not.
And that hurts.
It's utterly tiring to keep saying, "Next year looks to be the year for us as we continue to develop." Because it looks that way given how much further contending/on bubble teams in the AFC (Browns, Dolphins, Titans, etc.) separated themselves.
I will glad for the team if we continue to improve our season win record over last week, but there is no escaping the fact that we should be so much more at this point, even with a young and relatively inexperienced team.
Blame a plenty to go around -- on Carr and his horrendous ball protection skills and truly poor passing decisions, a terrible game call, subpar performances from every group across O and D personnel, and a complete and utter lack of heart.
Even when they were down just two scores coming out of the half we weren't coming out with fire and conviction. This reminded me of the early 2000's teams that you could see literally give up in the middle of the game.
Putrid, horrid, and disgusting show. Totally agree @kaso -- measure will be in how this team responds.
However the real test of this team was this game -- a pretty much must-win game on the road against a sound but not spectacular team that proved we are good enough to control our own destiny.
We're not.
And that hurts.
It's utterly tiring to keep saying, "Next year looks to be the year for us as we continue to develop." Because it looks that way given how much further contending/on bubble teams in the AFC (Browns, Dolphins, Titans, etc.) separated themselves.
I will glad for the team if we continue to improve our season win record over last week, but there is no escaping the fact that we should be so much more at this point, even with a young and relatively inexperienced team.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The defense has been an issue all season and the main reason to doubt the playoffs. Sounds like yesterday was a total team disaster. Carr seemed to be quieting doubters lately but it’s games like these that cause alarm. Next game will be important to his future with the Raiders. One bad game will be forgotten.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I was pretty much depressed (no kidding) after the game yesterday.
Jacobs, Good and Arnette all hurt. Jacobs looks to not be serious. Good is worrisome. Arnette likely out a bit in concussion protocol.
Silver lining of what I saw: Kwiat continues to show he was a great signing. 4 tackles, 2 assists, a sack and what should have been an INT if not for a penalty.
Morrow is balling. Lead the team with 10 tackles, 1 TFL and 2 PD's. Anyone have any idea what the Littleton contract looks like? If we cut him this offseason are we hung with a ton of dead money? He has earned his time on the field and Littleton hasn't done squat all year.
Isaiah Johnson got a lot of playing time because Arnette went out with concussion and Mullen missed some time. Johnson is a fighter. I don't recall him getting blow out and he was in there when they threw at him. He got 1 PD but I recall more... I wonder how many forced incompletes he has but couldn't find that stat as I would have sworn he had at least 2 PD's.
Jacobs, Good and Arnette all hurt. Jacobs looks to not be serious. Good is worrisome. Arnette likely out a bit in concussion protocol.
Silver lining of what I saw: Kwiat continues to show he was a great signing. 4 tackles, 2 assists, a sack and what should have been an INT if not for a penalty.
Morrow is balling. Lead the team with 10 tackles, 1 TFL and 2 PD's. Anyone have any idea what the Littleton contract looks like? If we cut him this offseason are we hung with a ton of dead money? He has earned his time on the field and Littleton hasn't done squat all year.
Isaiah Johnson got a lot of playing time because Arnette went out with concussion and Mullen missed some time. Johnson is a fighter. I don't recall him getting blow out and he was in there when they threw at him. He got 1 PD but I recall more... I wonder how many forced incompletes he has but couldn't find that stat as I would have sworn he had at least 2 PD's.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Yes. It's one bad game.
But this was an historically epic bad game. At a crux in the season where a win was really needed to keep this team on track.
I am not sure it can be easily forgotten in context of not winning when we need to (yet again) and not taking advantage of the situation we built (see our team at this point last year when we ran into the Jets, gotten our @$$es handed to us in a game we should have won, then gone on a playoff push collapse).
I thought this team had solidly turned it's trajectory around. Yesterday showed me that not only was this not true, but we might be no farther than we were last year.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
It will be forgotten if we make playoffs. It will be languished on if we do not.
I think the analogy to last season makes sense as the records were the same at this point and having the lowly Jets both years near the same point makes it easy to point to it. Last year not beating them like we should have sent us into a spiral we didn't pull out of. Now, we lost to a Falcons team we should have beat in bad fashion.
That being said, I don't think these are the same teams. Last year our 6-4 really was that way after catching a few breaks our way. We kind of were lucky to be 6-4. This year, if not for a few breaks that went against us we could easily have a better record to the tune of 8-2 including beating some good teams and our wins were solid wins.
This last game sucked big hairy monkey balls but this is an improved team from last year without any doubt. We are a good team but we are still on the cusp. We have shown we can play with and beat any team in the league this year but we also just showed that we can really fail to play good ball consistently in a way that the great teams never do.
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joey
Footballguy
Totally agree with this assessment. Those fumbles were the OLIne's fault, not Carr's IMO. He wasn’t holding the ball forever either iirc.
but, yes, besides that, it was a total team failure, Carr included. I wish they’d do no-huddle, up tempo offense from time to time to mix things up and try to put a D on its heals. The opposite of pounding the rock, just to mix it up.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The problem is that the team continues to have the same problems. No pass rush and no WRs. Renfrow should not be the leading WR. The Raiders drafted two WRs in the first three rounds and came up with little. It pains me to see so many other rookie WRs having so much success across the league while Ruggs and Edwards do so little. It was good to Ruggs on the stat sheet but if this team is going to take the next step, Ruggs and/or Edwards need to become good WRs quickly.
Ok, not making excuses, but to be fair DC's wife just gave birth to a baby girl late last night. So all us fathers out there know exactly where his head was at in Atlanta. Being on the other side of the country while his wife could give birth at any moment had to be weighing on his mind. Congrats to the Carr family.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
We used to have the Three Year rule for WR's. I'm not going to write these guys off so quickly especially since they didn't have regular off season and have missed time due to injuries. With Ruggs I see a lot of timing issues with him and DC. Hopefully after a full offseason (covid willing) they can sync up.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
The oline was completely dominated in the game. Goode looked completely overmatched. Rarely did Carr have a clean pocket. All of which points to the need for Brown to return. It would give the lagging run game a boast and drastically improve the pass protection.
As blasphemous as it sounds I have been very disappointed in the production of the WR group. Yes, Ruggs speed helps open things up but at some point that requires consistent production to remain a threat. Edwards has been a complete disappointment considering all the hype. It speaks volumes to that Agolor is statistically the team's leading WR.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Did the entire team have kids born too? Really, most of the entire team laid an egg. With the 3 fumbles and INT he sure didn't have his best game but two of those fumbles I wouldn't hang on him as something he did or didn't do to cause them.
And congrats to Carr. Raider Nation grows.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Yes, I am not going to hit the panic button on Ruggs amd Edwards just yet exactly for what you point out. A not really off season and injuries that further slowed development/chemistry.
Ha! No, don't get me wrong, I didn't watch all the game but I understand it wasn't all Carr's fault, it never is one player's fault. Anyway, take away from it what we will, it had to be a factor in some small capacity.
I guess I'm searching for answers. I can't figure this team out. They can hang with KC and NO, go to Cleveland and win and dominate the Broncos, but get clobbered by a 3-7 team under an interim HC? Who are these LV Raiders?
The lack of WR production isn't the receivers....Carr rarely looks their way. His percentage of targets to wr's is the lowest in the league by far at around 40%. Carr just doesn't utilize that position unless it is a check down option (see Renfrow).
Ed Wood
Footballguy
Carr DOES have small hands comparatively speaking for an NFL QB based on a little research I did (and so does Mahomes). And I think they speak somewhat to his fumbling issues—tho I don't think much. The only QB on this list with smaller hands is Goff and he DOES have a fumbling problem. But Joe Burrow's hand size is supposed to be the same as Goff's. This list is taken from a story about Kyler Murray before the NFL draft. I pared it down to reflect only current NFL QBs.
List and link:
Dak Prescott 10.875
Josh Allen 10.125 (this is Rodgers' hand size too)
Carson Wentz 10
Baker Mayfield 9.875
Marcus Mariota 9.875
Nathan Peterman 9.875
Jacoby Brissett 9.75
Deshaun Watson 9.75
Mitch Trubisky 9.5
Lamar Jackson 9.5
Blake Bortles 9.375 (this is Brady's hand size too)
Jameis Winston 9.375
Pat Mahomes 9.25
Jimmy Garoppolo 9.25
Teddy Bridgewater 9.25
Sam Darnold 9.25
Derek Carr 9.125
Jared Goff 9
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/nfl-combine-kyler-murray-hand-size-doesnt-matter
The story apparently was way off on Murray's hand size which is 9.5 inches.
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Ed Wood
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Not giving excuses to the Raiders horrible performance but I do think the Falcons are better than their record. They lost several games they could have won. Before the season started not many had them sucking this bad. Looks like they gave up on Quinn and are playing for Morris. That all said, we lost the game more than they defeated us.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Haha. Spoken like a true fanatic. What I saw was a defensive line kicking the Raiders a$$, series in, series out. They absolutely owned Goode and Miller was not much better. I hope the players don't have that mind set or another a$$ kicking will be served up this season.
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32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
You bring up an interesting point. I am not certain the Three Year rule has as much validity in today's NFL. Players are expected to play early. My sense is that if WR didn't make an impact in Y1 or Y2 they generally turnout to be a jag. That said it is understandable that the rooks are not making much impact. As someone upstream mentioned they didn't have the benefit of an off season and were injured in preseason.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
So I'm gonna wear the raider black hat here for a sec and be the bad guy again. lol Which should be ok, since that's how raiders roll right? The bad guys. Most of the posts in here from halftime on have talked about how bad the Raiders played and all the things they did wrong (and bad calls of course). Only one post or so, if that, even hinted at how well ATL played. (they have been playing really well BTW) After week 5 I tried to say a few things about how bad the Chiefs played (in addition to how well the Raiders played) and got slammed for it. Yet here we are. If we stay with that same mojo from week 5 we should be talking about how dominate ATL was and how they destroyed the Raiders. (even without Gurley and Julio) It wasn't the Raiders having a bad day or playing bad, it was getting beat or "own it", I think was what was said. Right?
Had a nice win week 5, no doubt, played really well. Hard to not start feeling yourself a little in here, I'm sure. .500 since and a game over .500 overall. So maybe that's who these Raiders are, until they show more consistency and discipline. About the same as last year, and many times in this league it has been shown that you need that QB who will will his team to victory and have them win even when maybe they shouldn't. Not sure Carr has that ability. If they really are "we go as Carr goes" , not sure that is a great spot to be in. He seems to have improved, but not to the point of where you can say "we don't have to really worry about him not performing well today". Some QB's can still carry their teams to wins when things are going bad elsewhere.
Raiders do seem to be moving in the right direction even though the record is similar to last year at this time. When healthy the oline can be dominating in the run game. As a KC fan I feel the Raiders "go" as the oline and running game/Jacobs go. Thats what scares people (me), and a little Waller mixed in. Luckily Jets on board next (but maybe a little doubt creeping in on that one). And not sure the Broncos or Chargers are automatic dubs at this point, let alone the other two games. But Raiders are no longer an almost automatic dub for other teams like they have been in the past. Good enough to beat almost anybody if playing well in all three phases, but can also be beat by anybody if not playing well in one or more of those areas. Should be fun down the stretch.....
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
Yes, Good (no e) had a rough game for sure as did most of the line. We have gone up against better defensive lines and beat them. The Falcons played well but we did not play at our level we have this season.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I am sure Stinkin Refs post was funny in some way but its nearly unreadable for me.
If you are going to razz the rival team at least do so legibly. I have an easier time with some of Bri's posts than that.
If you are going to razz the rival team at least do so legibly. I have an easier time with some of Bri's posts than that.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Another day passed, another day to take a deep breath and gain perspective.
It's a gigantic, embarrassing loss -- but it's still just one loss.
This is an Any Given Sunday league with parity between teams -- and any time you continually given another team that many chances on turnovers in prime field position, you are going to lose. Period.
Last year we had a similar situation where we took one hard on the chin vs the Jets. That rocked and reeled us, and we went on to lose 5 of the next 6.
What matters isn't the last game -- it's the next.
We have a chance to not only right that wrong from last year, but to also prove we're no longer that team from last year.
We can't afford to look anywhere but the team right ahead of us, and kick their ### up and down the field. We better come in angry at the world and be willing to do whatever it takes to have an "Alice's Restaurant" game -- blood and gore and guts and veins in our teeth, eat dead, burnt bodies...we need to kill.
We have some tough teams left, but I think we can handle the table that's been set. I think we handle the Broncos and Chargers (though the Chargers are going to be difficult with Ekeler coming back). The Colts look like they are teetering and primed to be punched in the mouth themselves, and while the Dolphins D is stout I think our offense can still outpace theirs.
What we do need to do is at least beat one of the Colts or Dolphins. -- we can't lose to both, and ideally we beat them both to help secure tiebreakers.
We can't be that team of the past -- we need to continue to be the team of the future that we've seen glimmers of this season.
Our destiny is still in our hands. It's what we do with it each week from here that will count.
It's a gigantic, embarrassing loss -- but it's still just one loss.
This is an Any Given Sunday league with parity between teams -- and any time you continually given another team that many chances on turnovers in prime field position, you are going to lose. Period.
Last year we had a similar situation where we took one hard on the chin vs the Jets. That rocked and reeled us, and we went on to lose 5 of the next 6.
What matters isn't the last game -- it's the next.
We have a chance to not only right that wrong from last year, but to also prove we're no longer that team from last year.
We can't afford to look anywhere but the team right ahead of us, and kick their ### up and down the field. We better come in angry at the world and be willing to do whatever it takes to have an "Alice's Restaurant" game -- blood and gore and guts and veins in our teeth, eat dead, burnt bodies...we need to kill.
We have some tough teams left, but I think we can handle the table that's been set. I think we handle the Broncos and Chargers (though the Chargers are going to be difficult with Ekeler coming back). The Colts look like they are teetering and primed to be punched in the mouth themselves, and while the Dolphins D is stout I think our offense can still outpace theirs.
What we do need to do is at least beat one of the Colts or Dolphins. -- we can't lose to both, and ideally we beat them both to help secure tiebreakers.
We can't be that team of the past -- we need to continue to be the team of the future that we've seen glimmers of this season.
Our destiny is still in our hands. It's what we do with it each week from here that will count.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
This team got complacent after a moral victory against the Chiefs and faced a team that just got obliterated. Trap game at it's finest.
The next game will be a true barometer of whether we're a playoff worthy team.
The next game will be a true barometer of whether we're a playoff worthy team.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I said the exact same things being said in here now.....we played bad.....while also saying you played good...and actually most in here aren't giving ATL any credit it's all about how bad you played.....just pointing out that wasn't allowed after week 5....its a football message board......footballguys.com......not raidersguys.com...sensitivity meter on full tilt in here....lighten up.....if you want the herd mentality and like think and no smack talk I'm sure there are plenty of raiders only message boards....lol....cheers
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
The ham-fisted and wholly unsubtle attempts to come across as balanced and fair just so you can call out others when they don't agree with your own biased viewpoints just simply doesn't play.
Honestly the only one who is the least bit sensitive here is you, whining about the lack of responses you hope to see.
When faced with this situation, you could either come up with some actual substance or get much, much better at fishing.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Just as one game doesn't break a team, one game doesn't fix it either.
We finally need to show we can control our destiny. If we beat the Jets and the Colts, I'd say we are on our way. That would be one team we should beat, and one team we need to beat.
If we can do that, I'll feel better about our playoff chances -- and the ability of this team to persevere -- going into the last 3 games of the season.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
T. Brown at practice!
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Oh, and just ignore the KC troll
Chadstroma
Footballguy
RT Trent Brown, DB Lamarcus Joyner and RB Theo Riddick were activated from the COVID-19 list. Brown will have to wait at least another week to return to play. ... DT Maliek Collins (hamstring, ankle) will go on short-term IR. ... RB Josh Jacobs (ankle), S Johnathan Abram (knee), WR Nelson Agholor (ankle), DB Damon Arnette (concussion), G Denzelle Good (ankle), DT Maurice Hurst (ankle, calf) and LB Nick Kwiatkoski (ankle) all missed practice with injuries.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
I agree. Beating the Jets doesn't prove we're playoff worthy. Raiders need to beat the Colts at home, because if they can't, what's the point?
Chadstroma
Footballguy
We have proven that we can beat any (top) team in the league (Saints, Chefs). We have not proven we can beat good teams consistently or the bad teams as we should.
If we get into the playoffs, we can do damage. Specially if T. Brown gets back healthy and we don't have any major injury setbacks.
Win or lose against the Colts, I want into the playoffs. The thing is, we don't have much margin for error. Any loss from here on out really hurts our chances of getting in.
We should and better beat the Jets, Dolts and Donkeys. That leaves the two best teams we have left. I think the Dolphins are not really as good as they their record. The Colts are legit with perhaps the best defense in the league. It will tell the league a lot about the Raiders if we beat them... but if we don't and still make the playoffs then rock n roll because the playoffs are the only games that if you win you move on and if you don't you go home.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Trent Brown has played in a grand total of 2 games for us this year -- and the first one against CAR hardly counts as he took just 3 snaps.
This guy better be a tour de force every week afterwards.
This guy better be a tour de force every week afterwards.
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
my original post revisited..
complimented Raiders throughout (applied pressure without blitzing, good culture, etc) while also saying KC D played like crap (which they did)....much like you said the Raiders played bad against ATL (which they did)....did I dog Carr a little bit saying anybody could have made those throws....sure....but dudes were wide open often in that game partially because of bad D, so not a reach....still not sure what was really that bad or backhanded or off base to put you guys on tilt....if you thought is was backhanded or whatever....thats up to you...maybe you were a little to juiced after the big win so any little slight was magnified in your eyes....it had to just be a Raider domination, nothing else..I get it....I thought it was a fair assessment from the dark side....
but then the hypocrisy creeps in....
Chadstroma....
"Yes, Good (no e) had a rough game for sure as did most of the line. We have gone up against better defensive lines and beat them. The Falcons played well but we did not play at our level we have this season."
sounds kinda familiar....
good luck in your chase for the wild card.....
Stinkin Ref
IBL Representative
I’ll bow out.....luckily the NFL handed you guys a gift of an extra wild card spot that you will probably be needing for the next decade....I’ll check back in 2030 or so....enjoy
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Well that was useless
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Well.... bye.
(In my best Curly Bill Brocius voice)
(In my best Curly Bill Brocius voice)
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The Raiders are great at losing games they should win. Happens so often. The Raiders got beat badly. There are no excuses. I still believe the Raiders miss the playoffs. There are too many good teams in the AFC with better records and the Raiders are not good enough to win out.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
To be fair, it has been a while where we had a team that we could go into games that we "should win".
We are currently out but 'in the hunt'. I really want to see how they respond going into the game against the Jets. Last year (albeit a lesser team) they folded after taking the hit to the chin. They lose this game, I am there with you. I am not sure even if they would still be alive mathematically or not but I think if they lose against the Jets the psychological "here we go again" will doom them for sure. If they beat them then I think they get their mojo back and then it will largely be about how they fair against the Colts and Dolphins (and not dropping the games against the Dolts and Donkeys of course).
I still believe.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The team showed serious potential so far this year. With help at WR and DE, next year could be very fun. It’s a tough division though. KC is great and the Chargers have a really good young QB. They have flaws but a great QB can mask some of that.
If the Raiders lose to the Jets, there should not be another word mentioned about playoffs.
rockaction
Footballguy
Please don't. We're tanking for Trevor up in Jersey. The New England game was quite the nail biter for us, but NE pulled it with some Folk magic. Really, I hope you guys have a heck of a week, because we're all nervous in Jets land that this is the week we catch someone vulnerable sleeping, and that Atlanta game was completely unsettling. Then again, the point that Atlanta deserves credit is a good one. They fly around the ball on defense for Morris now.
Stinkin Ref is still a quasi-literate troll job, though. Ignore that.
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