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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (4 Viewers)

wikkidpissah said:
i dunno if i can rank these guys sober and i dont get loaded much anymore. NObody nailed it. jake & gally came closest, balancewise. lotta guys out of position - PGs playing SG mostly. higgsy woulda dominated if he hadnt pushed Gus over. and i dont care if Wes Unseld is three ft tall and four feet wide - he's a center, not a 4. it was tried. i'll give it another shot when my back chases me out of bed in the wee hours, but i might just skip the 70s. that was tried a lot too.
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Thanks for the shout out and it's nice to know someone recognizes the team construction.  I hope the judges factor that largely into their evaluations.  

 
Getzlaf15 said:
WTF.. Maravich as a SF?

It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two mockeries of a sham.
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That's my hope for my team is that people don't just give out rankings based on most MVPs and All Stars but penalize teams that aren't really teams. It's the best shot I have at moving up these rankings. 

 
I'm proud of the 70s roster I built on a shoestring budget using picks in the 19th, 21st, 27th, 28th, and 29th rounds.  There's no way to prove it but I think my players compliment each other to a 't' and were it possible to go back in time I think this roster would beat most of those others have assembled.  The half-court game would thrive.

PG Fred "Mad Dog" Carter

At his peak he was a 20/5/5 PG, and he sustained this kind of production over 4 years.  I'd say I squeezed blood from a turnip picking a player of this caliber in the 28th round.

SG Brian Winters

Another value pick in the 27th round, Brian Winters sustained about 18/3/4 over a 5 year stretch.

SF Junior Bridgeman

29th rounder who weighs in at 15/3/3.  Great athletic defender who got up high and also had great range on his outside shot.  

PF Bob Love

19th rounder and one of the very best PFs in his day.  Had a stretch of 6 years 20/7/2 with peaks in 70/71 with 25.2/8.5/2.3; 71-72 with 25.8/6.6/1.6; and 72/73 with 23.1/6.5/1.5.

C Caldwell Jones 

21st rounder - an ABA all-timer at the center position and a perfectly proportioned 7-footer.  Was a solid double-double guy and led the league in blocks twice, once season averaging 4 per game.

 
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I’ve got the best PG of the 70s in Walt Frazier, the best SG of the ABA in Willie Wise, one of the best PFs of all time in Maurice Lucas, a perennial ABA all star in Louis Dampier, and last but not least Chocolate Thunder. What’s not to love? 

 
One thing I had forgotten about with the 70s was how much parity in the league there was. There were some really good / great individual teams, but no 1-2 top teams across the decade like in the other decades. Only 2 teams won more than one championship (2 each), and the last six winners of the decade were all different teams. Also, some of the “worst” champions from a win-loss record come from this decade. Probably a mix of true parity and a good segment of top players going to the ABA. It’s hard to break my tiers into specific tiers for this decade. 

 
Yo Mama said:
One thing I had forgotten about with the 70s was how much parity in the league there was. There were some really good / great individual teams, but no 1-2 top teams across the decade like in the other decades. Only 2 teams won more than one championship (2 each), and the last six winners of the decade were all different teams. Also, some of the “worst” champions from a win-loss record come from this decade. Probably a mix of true parity and a good segment of top players going to the ABA. It’s hard to break my tiers into specific tiers for this decade. 
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Good call, I haven’t watched a ton of 70s b-ball out of just highlights. 90s were fun with mix of teams too.
 

Most of the 2010s were kind of yucky with these superstar hoarding teams (nobody’s fault I would guess) but I think looking at the NBA this year, in particular post trade deadline, it might be getting back to little more parity. I think a reasonable argument can be made that 9 teams (4 in the East, 5 in the west) are legit contenders to win the title 

 
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Question for the group: If you notice a player is out of position, out of decade, or anything else that could drop a team in your rankings...what is the desired protocol?  For example: Pistol Pete being at SF (as previously pointed out).

Just sent in 70s rankings.  Tough groups to separate...I'm guessing there will be some wider ranking spreads that the 1960s.

 
trader jake said:
Question for the group: If you notice a player is out of position, out of decade, or anything else that could drop a team in your rankings...what is the desired protocol?  For example: Pistol Pete being at SF (as previously pointed out).

Just sent in 70s rankings.  Tough groups to separate...I'm guessing there will be some wider ranking spreads that the 1960s.
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Personally I’ll bump them down a little bit for the out of decade placement if it is really bad (there are a couple in the 80s that come to mind). For out of position, it just depends how the team is built. Will a SG at SF make the team too short to match up with the bigger wings?  No true PG will make it hard to run an offense.  If a team has two centers, will they have a hard time keeping up with more athletic forwards?  It’ll depend on the player too. 

 
Yo Mama said:
Personally I’ll bump them down a little bit for the out of decade placement if it is really bad (there are a couple in the 80s that come to mind). For out of position, it just depends how the team is built. Will a SG at SF make the team too short to match up with the bigger wings?  No true PG will make it hard to run an offense.  If a team has two centers, will they have a hard time keeping up with more athletic forwards?  It’ll depend on the player too. 
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Exactly.  The answer is, "it depends".

If somebody knocks my Jo Jo White/Don Buse guard combo because both played more PG than SG, my question is why? They can both handle the ball, Buse is a better passer and White a better scorer.  Buse is also a defensive specialist, so Jo Jo doesn't have that pressure.  I think they work great together although neither is a true SG.

Now clogging up your lane with two natural centers I can see as a detriment because they both have to occupy the same spots to be effective.

 
Okay, folks -- sorry for the necessary interlude/draft fatigue but since I didn't even start my 60's drafting until the end I knew I'd get a '1' (deservedly so) and a break -- a couple things:

(1) Our fearless leader wanted each of us to judge at least 3 decades w/o a max number of judges (the more the better). So I'm assuming I can judge the 70's, 80's and 90's -- would that be acceptable?

(2) Since the 70's ranking is about to start, I'll punch out my write-up by tonight -- is that acceptable?

Gracias....

 
higgins said:
Okay, folks -- sorry for the necessary interlude/draft fatigue but since I didn't even start my 60's drafting until the end I knew I'd get a '1' (deservedly so) and a break -- a couple things:

(1) Our fearless leader wanted each of us to judge at least 3 decades w/o a max number of judges (the more the better). So I'm assuming I can judge the 70's, 80's and 90's -- would that be acceptable?

(2) Since the 70's ranking is about to start, I'll punch out my write-up by tonight -- is that acceptable?

Gracias....
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Works for me. I gave everyone until noon pacific tomorrow to get me their 70s rankings so tonight is great. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I’m doing research and it turns out Dr. J wasn’t even a real doctor. This is going to be a huge deduction for Higgins team. 
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Plus if you’re the star of a really terrible movie I’m deducting 100 points from my evaluation. This applies to Dr J, Alex English, and Michael Jordan, among others. 

 
timschochet said:
Plus if you’re the star of a really terrible movie I’m deducting 100 points from my evaluation. This applies to Dr J, Alex English, and Michael Jordan, among others. 
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Bite your tongue - Space Jam was my favorite movie when I was a kid (it came out when I was 11).

Small tangent... the guy that lived across from me had a brother in the movie business - an up and coming (at the time) voice actor named Dee Bradley Baker who voiced a handful of the cartoon characters in the movie (Daffy, most notably). When my neighbor's brother came to visit, my neighbor arranged that he stop by to sign my Space Jam poster and do some voices. Pretty sweet experience young me. Dee Bradley Baker has since become one of the busiest voice actors in the industry. 

 
timschochet said:
Plus if you’re the star of a really terrible movie I’m deducting 100 points from my evaluation. This applies to Dr J, Alex English, and Michael Jordan, among others. 
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Just 'star of' correct?  My 1970s team ranking could depend on it.  Sweet Lou Hudson was in 'The Fish that Saved Pittsburgh' while Stormin' Norman Van Lier appeared in both 'Barbershop' and 'Barbershop 2'.  ??  Can I get a ruling here?

 
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I never saw Eddie, but you could make a nice 12-man roster from the NBA players in that movie:

STARTERS
C - Brad Daugherty
PF - John Salley
SF - Dennis Rodman
SG - Mitch Richmond
PG - Gary Payton

BENCH
PG - Terrell Brandon (or Vinny Del Negro!)
SG - John Starks 
SF - Rick Fox
PF - Larry Johnson
PF/C - Olden Polynice
C - Vlade Divac

 
Doug B said:
I never saw Eddie, but you could make a nice 12-man roster from the NBA players in that movie:

STARTERS
C - Brad Daugherty
PF - John Salley
SF - Dennis Rodman
SG - Mitch Richmond
PG - Gary Payton

BENCH
PG - Terrell Brandon (or Vinny Del Negro!)
SG - John Starks 
SF - Rick Fox
PF - Larry Johnson
PF/C - Olden Polynice
C - Vlade Divac
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I’ll take Blue Chips

PG - Penny Hardaway

SG - Allan Houston

SF - Larry Bird

PF - Kevin Garnett

C - Shaq 

Bench

PG - Bobby Hurley

PG - Bob Cousy

SG - Keith Smart

SF - George Lynch

PF - Marques Johnson

C - Lou Gossett Jr (just try to move that guy off the block)

Plus I get a bevy of college coaches to choose from.

 
Yo Mama said:
I’ll take Blue Chips

PG - Penny Hardaway

SG - Allan Houston

SF - Larry Bird

PF - Kevin Garnett

C - Shaq 

Bench

PG - Bobby Hurley

PG - Bob Cousy

SG - Keith Smart

SF - George Lynch

PF - Marques Johnson

C - Lou Gossett Jr (just try to move that guy off the block)

Plus I get a bevy of college coaches to choose from.
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You better get Bob Cousy into the starting 5 for Blue Chips.  He didn't receive a tractor or duffle bag of cash, but he still ended up with the best box out of any player in the film. On Nick Nolte.

During the scene where the head coach was explaining to him (the AD) his mixed feelings on recruiting, Cousy couldn't miss from the line...boxing out Nolte from getting up a shot in the scene.  He even made the last one left handed.  link

 
I think it's because it was the 60s era and not many people here had actually seen most those players, but I want some actual arguing this time after the reveals.

 
trader jake said:
You better get Bob Cousy into the starting 5 for Blue Chips.  He didn't receive a tractor or duffle bag of cash, but he still ended up with the best box out of any player in the film. On Nick Nolte.

During the scene where the head coach was explaining to him (the AD) his mixed feelings on recruiting, Cousy couldn't miss from the line...boxing out Nolte from getting up a shot in the scene.  He even made the last one left handed.  link
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I threw Cousy behind Penny and Hurley on the depth chart to see if Wikkid or Jayrod would notice. 

 
In case there are still some judges reviewing and they missed my write up the first time:

Here is my 1970's entry into the discussion.  Just like my 60's entry, I didn't go top end and tried to make a defensively minded cohesive unit that would be tough to play against.  Combined this squad has 3 Championships, 26 All Star Appearances, 9 All NBA/ABA appearances, 1 All Defensive Team appearances, 3 Rookie of the Years, 2 AS game MVP, and 2 HoF'ers.  Without further ado:

PG - Dave Bing (Pick 7.10):  20.3/3.8/6.0 career averages with a PER of 17.6 and WS(WS/48) of 68.8 (.101).  Bing’s NBA debut was inauspicious. Coming off the bench, he missed his first six field-goal attempts and recorded the first scoreless game of his life. Two weeks later he was given a chance to start for the first time-and promptly connected on his first eight shots from the floor. The next night he scored 35 points. Bing was off and running to a 1,601-point season in 1966-67, which made him only the sixth rookie in NBA history to top 1,600 points. He scored 20.0 points per game and was named NBA Rookie of the Year.

The following year he bested such high-scoring superstars as Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain to lead the league in scoring with 2,142 points and a 27.1 average. Bing was the first guard to set the scoring pace in 20 years (since Max Zaslofsky of the 1947-48 Chicago Stags of the Basketball Association of America). The super sophomore even managed to nudge the Lakers’ West from the All-NBA First Team that season.

Bing reached his peak in 1971, when former player and Pistons scout Earl Lloyd summarized his skills to Sport magazine: “Maybe some other player does this better, and another player does that better. [But] nobody does as much as Dave does.”

SG - Doug Collins (Pick 20.07):  17.9/3.2/3.3 career averages with a PER of 16.1 and WS(WS/48) of 38.0 (.131).  The Philadelphia 76ers actually selected Doug Collins with the No. 1 overall pick in the 1973 NBA draft. He was an outstanding player for them too. In his second season, Collins averaged 17.9 points per game. In fact, for five straight seasons from 1974-75 through 1978-79, he didn’t average under 17 points per game. Collins also earned four consecutive All-Star selections from 1975-76 through 1978-79. His best season statistically was probably in 1975-76 when he averaged 20.8 points per game and four rebounds. However, he ultimately only played in eight seasons as knee and foot injuries cut his career short.  

SF - Bob Dandridge (Pick 11.10):  18.5/6.8/3.4 career averages with a PER of 16.7 and WS(WS/48) of 80.3 (.131).  "Bob made it very difficult for our opponents to guard us because of his quickness," says Abdul-Jabbar. "He could hit the open midrange jump shot and he was a very good defensive player."    "I really don't think Bobby knew how good a basketball player he was," says Oscar Robertson.  This leads to a great match with Issel and Bing as leading scorers as he excelled as the third option on the Bucks championship teams.  He also is the cornerstone to this teams defensive prowess.  He scored more points in the Finals during the 1970s than any other player. He is also one of 23 Hall of Fame eligible players who have averaged 20-plus points per game in at least three different Finals, and the only one not in the Hall.  Put him in the HoF already!

PF - Sidney Wicks (Pick 14.07):  16.8/8.7/3.2 career averages with a PER of 16.2 and WS(WS/48) of 42.4 (.079). Everybody knew the Cavs were going to take UCLA superstar (3 x NCAA champ) Sidney Wicks with the first pick (which was decided by a coin-flip) so the Blazers made the Cavs an offer they couldn’t refuse: they paid them $250,000 to select Austin Carr instead of Wicks. Cleveland being Cleveland took the deal, the Blazers selected Wicks and then watched him become an All-Star and lead the team in scoring (22 points and 10 boards a game) on his way to a Rookie of the Year award. “He was the prototype of power forwards today,” says former teammate Lionel Hollins. ‘He was big, could run the court, shoot, post up, pass, put the ball on the floor. He could do it all as a player, and he played hard.” He fits with this team even if his pro career never quite matched his potential.

C - Dan Issel (Pick 8.07):  22.6/9.1/2.4 career averages with a PER of 21.4 and WS(WS/48) of 157.8 (.181). A prolific scorer, Issel remains the all-time leading scorer at the University of Kentucky, the second-leading scorer of all time for the NBA's Denver Nuggets, and the second-leading scorer of all time for the American Basketball Association itself. His accuracy at 15 to 20 feet from the basket made his patented head fake and drive especially effective. Issel gave Sports Illustrated his own evaluation of the move: “It’s the worst fake in the history of basketball and it works every time,” he said. “I can’t believe anyone goes for it.”  Upon Issel's retirement from the NBA in 1985, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Julius Erving were the only professional basketball players to have scored more career points. Issel was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1993.  

I really like the build of this team.  It has it all just not the true superstar name, although it has a couple great HoF'ers, a guy that should be there, and a guy that would be if he wasn't injured.  Lots of people that can handle that ball and shoot.  Defense to handle the wings and a couple of all hustle all stars.  I think this should be a top 8-ish squad and may sneak into top 5 range if I am lucky.    

 
Yo Mama said:
I threw Cousy behind Penny and Hurley on the depth chart to see if Wikkid or Jayrod would notice. 
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What's funny is that I've only really been a Celtics fan for about 4-5 years now.  I only jumped on as a fan of Brad Stevens and I hope he has a Pop-like tenure with Boston.  If he leaves or is let go, I'll honestly be rethinking my allegiance.  I didn't even root for them when they won in 2008 and was more of a fan of the Pistons team at that time.

That said I have also been decidedly anti-Lakers throughout my life (despised Kobe) and have preached Bird over Magic for a decade or more.  I also have an affinity for John Havlicek, but that's mostly because he is my dad's favorite player of all time.

 
Gally said:
In case there are still some judges reviewing and they missed my write up the first time:

Here is my 1970's entry into the discussion. 
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Knocking all these down three spots for spamming the thread.

;)

Had a busy DIY weekend installing a new pull down kitchen faucet and ADA compliant automatic door (4 trips to Lowe’s - it’s never as easy as I think it’ll be  :P )

We on a deadline? I’ll have my 70s rankings done late afternoon if that’s not too late.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Knocking all these down three spots for spamming the thread.

;)

Had a busy DIY weekend installing a new pull down kitchen faucet and ADA compliant automatic door (4 trips to Lowe’s - it’s never as easy as I think it’ll be  :P )

We on a deadline? I’ll have my 70s rankings done late afternoon if that’s not too late.
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Deadline is 12:00 PST (3:00 EST).

 
Getting blood 🩸 drawn rn.

If you’re over 50 have your PSA checked every year. Prostrate cancer has a high chance for successful treatment bc it’s a slow growth disease but it’s super important you get results every year. Do the right thing. [/arnoldpalmerPSAPSA]

 
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