Crabtree and Davis owners unite (1 Viewer)

[Kitrick Taylor]

Alex Smith was so unbelievable wretched tonight I can't even believe he was once the #1 overall pick in the draft. He has zero pocket presence, and that may be overstating it. He had decent protection tonight but ran into sacks and pressure. On top of that he had receivers running open, but made poor reads.

I'm not sure if the game plan called for Josh Morgan to be the featured player in this game, but Alex Smith certainly seemed to make him the primary weapon for the 49ers tonight. Crabtree and Davis are top 10 talents, and were basically ignored completely tonight. Who devises a game plan like that? Seriously? I can see if a defense decides it is going to take a player away. It happens. But they certainly couldn't have rolled coverage to both of them.

Bottom line is Crabtree and Davis could very well be undervalued going into 2011 with a new head coach and QB.

 

[The Captain]

As bad as Millen and Theismann are, even they couldn't understand why San Fran couldn't get one of Crabtree or Davis involved in the game plan.

That's saying something.

Alex Smith owes me $400

 

[Couch Potato]

Crabtree dislocated his finger early on, so that may have limited him quite a bit. That doesn't explain the rest of the season, but I just thought I'd make the point.Rotoworld:

Michael Crabtree-WR- 49ers Dec. 16 - 9:05 pm et Michael Crabtree is playing through a dislocated finger Thursday night after sustaining the injury on the first drive of the game.Crabtree had to take himself out of the game to have the finger popped back into place. He was on the field for the next series and should should be fine the rest of the way.

 

[rocketsauce]

Where exactly would be "undervalued" in next year's draft? Cause I wouldn't touch either this year, and was right. So I won't touch either of them next year either.

 

[sammy8887]

Davis owner here and that was just brutal...

Everything stunk from the QB to the O-line to the offensive game plan - an embarrassing performance...

 

[Dizzy]

The 49ers seem pretty vanilla on offense... easy game for the SD defense. The talent is there at the WR and TE positions, but they looked extremely bland against a tough defense.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Where exactly would be "undervalued" in next year's draft? Cause I wouldn't touch either this year, and was right. So I won't touch either of them next year either.

I took Crabtree in dynasty as a rookie, and have rarely started him all season. I also avoided him in redraft leagues this year even though he fell into the 5th round of our 12 man redraft. It looks very likely that he will fall even lower in redrafts next year, and with any sort of quality QB play could be a real value pick.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

As bad as Millen and Theismann are, even they couldn't understand why San Fran couldn't get one of Crabtree or Davis involved in the game plan.That's saying something.Alex Smith owes me $400

The establishment where I watched the game had music on instead of the game call. Had no idea about Millen or Theismann's call. Nonetheless, that was brutal to watch, and a horrible game plan, or decision making process by Smith.

 

[Go deep]

Its the fantasy playoffs, i doubt Crabtree owners were affected by this weeks game.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

Its the fantasy playoffs, i doubt Crabtree owners were affected by this weeks game.

You are correct, in that nobody is starting Crabtree anymore. At least anybody that has a good team. That's the point of my OP. Here you have two top 10 draft picks that could be producing on a good to high level on another NFL team. Instead they are being dragged down by Singletary and the Smiths.

 

[Go deep]

Its the fantasy playoffs, i doubt Crabtree owners were affected by this weeks game.

You are correct, in that nobody is starting Crabtree anymore. At least anybody that has a good team. That's the point of my OP. Here you have two top 10 draft picks that could be producing on a good to high level on another NFL team. Instead they are being dragged down by Singletary and the Smiths.

I agree they are in a poor situation, especially without Gore. However, i think Singletary had alot to do with Davis becoming the player he is. Im not really sold on Crabtree either. He is talented, but i also think he is overrated.

 

[FantasyTrader]

While I completely agree that QB play and coaching are mainly to blame, I think you're giving Crabtree a pass where he doesn't deserve one. The local talk has been that Crabtree has a LONG way to go with his route-running and...shall we say...mental fortitude.

We need to be careful with the line of thought that he is only a better QB/system away from elite. He's got some work to do.

 

[•TheRealMcCoy]

As bad as Millen and Theismann are, even they couldn't understand why San Fran couldn't get one of Crabtree or Davis involved in the game plan.That's saying something.Alex Smith owes me $400

How much of it was actually Smith? Or even Singletary?? The big picture here fellas is SDC Def has played lights out now two weeks in a row! They came prepared to take away VD and Crabtree(which obviously left Morgan open)!! So Im going the other way here and saying NOT Smith/VD/nor Crabs fault! But merely a GOOD SDC Defense in this game!!!

 

[comfortably numb]

Where exactly would be "undervalued" in next year's draft? Cause I wouldn't touch either this year, and was right. So I won't touch either of them next year either.

You didn't touch one of the best FF producing TE's and are saying you were right?

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

While I completely agree that QB play and coaching are mainly to blame, I think you're giving Crabtree a pass where he doesn't deserve one. The local talk has been that Crabtree has a LONG way to go with his route-running and...shall we say...mental fortitude.

We need to be careful with the line of thought that he is only a better QB/system away from elite. He's got some work to do.

I don't doubt that one bit. However, some of that goes to coaching as well. It shouldn't be the coaches job to motivate players to do the necessary work in the offseason, in the filmroom, etc. With some players this isn't one bit of a problem. When a talented player has issues like that, the coach needs to get involved and get him motivated. It doesn't seem like Singletary has done that here.

 

[Summer Wheat]

I wear my sun glasses at night.....

 

[Papa Georgio]

While I completely agree that QB play and coaching are mainly to blame, I think you're giving Crabtree a pass where he doesn't deserve one. The local talk has been that Crabtree has a LONG way to go with his route-running and...shall we say...mental fortitude.

We need to be careful with the line of thought that he is only a better QB/system away from elite. He's got some work to do.

I don't doubt that one bit. However, some of that goes to coaching as well. It shouldn't be the coaches job to motivate players to do the necessary work in the offseason, in the filmroom, etc. With some players this isn't one bit of a problem. When a talented player has issues like that, the coach needs to get involved and get him motivated. It doesn't seem like Singletary has done that here.

I tend to not buy into it's a coaches job to motivate players at this level. I'm not sure how much the Ra Ra speeches work on professional athletes.As far as Crabtree getting a pass on poor performance, probably true. I don't know for sure but it has seemed to me that Crabtree with Smith at QB has been even more worthless than with anyone else at QB.

I always seem to wait one year too late to try and move guys but I think I would be looking to move Gore if I had him. His age, mileage, injury history and team makes me think after next year you might not get as much for him.

 

[FantasyTrader]

While I completely agree that QB play and coaching are mainly to blame, I think you're giving Crabtree a pass where he doesn't deserve one. The local talk has been that Crabtree has a LONG way to go with his route-running and...shall we say...mental fortitude.

We need to be careful with the line of thought that he is only a better QB/system away from elite. He's got some work to do.

I don't doubt that one bit. However, some of that goes to coaching as well. It shouldn't be the coaches job to motivate players to do the necessary work in the offseason, in the filmroom, etc. With some players this isn't one bit of a problem. When a talented player has issues like that, the coach needs to get involved and get him motivated. It doesn't seem like Singletary has done that here.

I tend to not buy into it's a coaches job to motivate players at this level. I'm not sure how much the Ra Ra speeches work on professional athletes.As far as Crabtree getting a pass on poor performance, probably true. I don't know for sure but it has seemed to me that Crabtree with Smith at QB has been even more worthless than with anyone else at QB.

I always seem to wait one year too late to try and move guys but I think I would be looking to move Gore if I had him. His age, mileage, injury history and team makes me think after next year you might not get as much for him.

But Kitrick does bring up a good point. I agree with you that generally speaking, pro athletes usually don't respond (long term) to the Rah-Rah stuff. But I also think a coaching staff can control the culture and instill unwritten expections of players. You look at the best NFL staff's/franchises and they usually enlist 3-4 key players to act as junior asst. coaches to define the culture. That frees them up to take care of the X's and O's. Players like Hines Ward, Brady, Manning, Ray Lewis, etc. You'd better be on point on their watch. SanFran doesn't have that. What example is Crabtree seeing that's willing to tell him he might be part of the problem?

 

[pantagrapher]

I'm a Davis owner and yes, that was brutal. Down 24-0 late in the third quarter and Alex Smith is still dumping it off on third and long.

 

[plyka]

I'm a Davis owner and yes, that was brutal. Down 24-0 late in the third quarter and Alex Smith is still dumping it off on third and long.

This is the difference between Troy and Alex, despite a perceived difference in skills or talent or whatever, Troy is game and Alex is not. It is as simple as that. Troy is a FOOTBALL player while Alex is not. They talk about "game" when they talk about pitbulls, the whole it's not about the size of the dog but the size of the FIGHT in the dog. I'm sorry, but I would play Troy 10 times out of 10, because I can trust in the football player more than I can in Alex Smith who should be bagging groceries. I mean, seriously, this guy has no idea what is going on around him. It's just hard to watch, and the coaching staff that plays Alex over Troy should really be fired. I mean, it must destroy any semblence of confidence that hte 49rs have. Just think that a guy comes on the season and pulls you to victories, while he is in you have a winning record, then the starter comes back with no fight, no ability, losing almost every game, and they take the start away from the winner and give it to the loser for nothing else than the coach is an idiot? That just hurts.Crabtree is my favorite WR right now. He has been in the league for 1.5 years. WRs usually take 2 or 3 seasons to mature. It will happen for Crabtree. And as for the folks that say Crabtree owners are out, here is one guy who just had a first round bye last week, lol. I'm doing pretty well, despite having Crabtree on my team.

 

[sammy8887]

^^^ To me it looked like A. Smith quit somewhere around the 2nd quarter. His body language became horrible and he started waiting for the next sack or the next checkdown.

 

[renesauz]

That was one game BEGGING for new camera angles. NFL football is always shown close up, and it's almost impossible to tell on TV what Smith was, or was not seeing downfield. As such, it's disengenuious to blame a QB for a perfromance like that. IF there was nobody open downfield, how is it his fault when he checks down? From what I could see, he didn't have many open targets out there. He took a few sacks, but none were long seconds after the ball should have been gone, but instead a heartbeat after the ball would have been gone had the 1st or 2nd read been open....his line bought him ZERO extra time, and barely adequate time on most plays. Smith has had 6 coordinators in 6 years...ridiculous by any measure.

I've long wondered why they don't zoom out more often...it would really help. I'm not even remotely sold that that debacle rests even partially on Alex Smith.

 

[FantasyTrader]

You're seriously not sold that debacle rested even partly on Alex Smith!?!

Even a helper monkey trained only in retrieving the morning paper has made that sale!!! Wow.

 

[gotexansgo]

That was one game BEGGING for new camera angles. NFL football is always shown close up, and it's almost impossible to tell on TV what Smith was, or was not seeing downfield. As such, it's disengenuious to blame a QB for a perfromance like that. IF there was nobody open downfield, how is it his fault when he checks down? From what I could see, he didn't have many open targets out there. He took a few sacks, but none were long seconds after the ball should have been gone, but instead a heartbeat after the ball would have been gone had the 1st or 2nd read been open....his line bought him ZERO extra time, and barely adequate time on most plays. Smith has had 6 coordinators in 6 years...ridiculous by any measure.I've long wondered why they don't zoom out more often...it would really help. I'm not even remotely sold that that debacle rests even partially on Alex Smith.

I find it hard to believe nobody was open downfield all game, ever think the fact Smith sucks is the reason they keep firing these coordinators...he seems to be the thing that hasnt changed, its really well past time for them to move on.

 

[DoubleG]

Everything stunk from the QB to the O-line to the offensive game plan - an embarrassing performance...

HERE - HERE!!!

 

[rocketsauce]

Where exactly would be "undervalued" in next year's draft? Cause I wouldn't touch either this year, and was right. So I won't touch either of them next year either.

You didn't touch one of the best FF producing TE's and are saying you were right?

While his overall numbers put him near the top of the TE class, his inconsistency has always been maddening. Unless you're playing in a rare rotisserie football league, his crap days could very well have cost you 5 or more wins this year, if you invested in him too early in your draft or auction. In my PPR he's put up days of 5, 2, 1, 5, and 1. His big days were 21 and 22, and otherwise he's been hanging in the low teens. Those low teens are acceptable for this years TE situation, but you have no clue when he'll give you that, or when he'll lay an egg like he did last night. Its the exact reason I preferred Clark, Witten, Finley, Gates, Tony G, and Celek (yeesh) over him in the preseason, and I'll do the same next year, although with the notable exception of Celek. At a one and done position like Tight End, where you only start 1 of their kind of most fantasy teams, I prefer consistency. VD just doesn't bring that to the table, and obviously won't be able to juice his numbers with 13 TDs any other year as he did in 09.

 

[ppierce]

Not sure what you all are talking about. I played against Davis and couldn't be more thrilled with his donut.

 

[pantagrapher]

Not sure what you all are talking about. I played against Davis and couldn't be more thrilled with his donut.

Crabtree and Davis owners unite

 

[qimqam]

While his overall numbers put him near the top of the TE class, his inconsistency has always been maddening.

Aside from Gates who has been more consistent at TE ?

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

That was one game BEGGING for new camera angles. NFL football is always shown close up, and it's almost impossible to tell on TV what Smith was, or was not seeing downfield. As such, it's disengenuious to blame a QB for a perfromance like that. IF there was nobody open downfield, how is it his fault when he checks down? From what I could see, he didn't have many open targets out there. He took a few sacks, but none were long seconds after the ball should have been gone, but instead a heartbeat after the ball would have been gone had the 1st or 2nd read been open....his line bought him ZERO extra time, and barely adequate time on most plays. Smith has had 6 coordinators in 6 years...ridiculous by any measure.I've long wondered why they don't zoom out more often...it would really help. I'm not even remotely sold that that debacle rests even partially on Alex Smith.

I thought the NFL Network did a decent job of showing different angles last night. They went to the flying camera behind the QB numerous times after a play. A couple of times, nobody was open. On others, guys had clear separation. What I found most disturbing about Alex Smiths' performance was his pocket presence. He had no idea when to stay in the pocket or when to scramble out of it. When he did scramble, sometimes it was too early, and on others he went the wrong way. Maybe I'm getting spoiled by watching Aaron Rodgers too much. Seems like most respectable QBs have this innate ability to make it look easy. Smith showed it to be extremely difficult last night.