Creation vs. Evolution (1 Viewer)

[bueno]

Our religions are "explanations" that are thousands of years old based upon no evidence. Mostly based upon myth. However, we have cleared up a lot of what needed splainin' over the last couple hundred years (i.e. evolution). Therefor, it is my opinion (opinion) that our religions are already antiquated. However, they have SUCH a strong pull for so many, it will take a LONG time for our belief systems to catch up with our new knowledge base and what science has proven to be true.

Religion as a means to explain physical phenomena are basically obsolete. But that's not the only thing that religion does for people.

You are being far too serious for this thread.

 

[Koya]

I still don't get what the dragons have to do with anything.Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the comedy, just not making the connection of dragons to Jesus.:shuke:

I would have to scroll way back into the thread to confirm, but I think the idea is that, because the earth isn't billions of years old, and because god created all animals first, then man and dinosaurs must have co-existed. Larry Boy then speculates that myths of fire-breathing dragons might really be stories regarding sightings of fire-breathing dinosaurs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

But if dragons are dinosaurs, then dinosaurs and humans had to co-exist. Saint Peter of Yarrow and Saint Lenny of Lipton wouldn't lie to us would they?

Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff and brought him strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff.Oh, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE.Together they would travel on a boat with billowed sail, Jackie kept a look out perched on Puff's gigantic tail.  Noble Kings and princes would bow whene'er they came, pirate ships would lower their flag when Puff roared out his name.Oh, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE.A dragon lives forever, but not so little boys painted wings and giant's rings make way for other toys. One grey night it happened Jackie Paper came no more and Puff that Mighty Dragon, he ceased his fearless roar.His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain, Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane.  Without his life-long friend, Puff could not be brave so Puff that Mighty Dragon sadly slipped into his cave.Oh, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE

I already made a Puff reference. Someone thinks I smoke the crazy weed now. They crazy.

 

[Koya]

Interesting, Bueno.  I've heard that elephant story my whole life, and not once has it come capped with the moral of theological disputes (but that's probably because i went to public schools).  Kinda like the teaching of Thanksgiving or Christmas these days.I like it; thanks for posting.

It's a great poem if you're a gnostic.Reminds you that we are like the blind man: finite beings trying to understand the infinite.

The blind man/elephant parallel is currently being used in advanced theoretical physics in attempts at unification. Theory dualities are being explored. For example, instead of being thought of as incompatible theories, things like Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are now being thought of as "different parts of the same elephant". It's leading to some interesting developments. At least, according to Ed Whitten it is. And he's pretty bright.

Link? Not being sarcastic. I find the thought interesting.

Very interesting, and makes a lot of sense. Especially if we are only "privy" to certain senses/dimensions - either ever, or at one point in time/space

 

[Koya]

One commonly used argument is how Europe has moved away from its religious past. I don't think that is necessarily a good thing. There are plenty of swell people in Europe, but I don't aspire to be European.

This is a trend that has begun. It will not be stopped. There may be new religions that bridge the gap - evolving (uh oh) into a religion that is based more on our human situation now, then what our situation was hundreds and thousands of years ago.The root needs for religion have changed. The circumstances by which that religion will be taught/applied have changed DRAMATICALLY over the past 200 years. Our religions are still 1800/5000 years old. It is time they caught up to a world that has changed more in 200 years then in the 2000 - and maybe 20000 - before. I also believe this inevitable shift away from the religions of the past (which are still the predominant religions of the present) is a reason why the religious right is becoming a stronger voice. Facing the inevitable decline of their belief and their power and way of life, it is natural to rally up the troops and circle the wagons.The reaosn those wagons are being circled, however, is far more interesting - we are moving away from antiquated religions based upon thousand year old myths and stories. I would be curious to see what the next "batch" of religion brings to us.After all, every ancient western religion had its day - look at greek mythology. You dont think there were those that were just as strong "believers" in such a construct as there are believers in today's religions? Of course there were. But the religion evolved, it gave way - as all religions have.Our current crop will surely experience the same demise - or at least significant chance. My guess is change, and then demise... or evolving into a religion starkly different from what is seen today.

 

[tangfoot]

There may be new religions that bridge the gap - evolving (uh oh) into a religion that is based more on our human situation now, then what our situation was hundreds and thousands of years ago.

Frank Herbert wrote about this in the 1960's.

 

[shining path]

Our religions are "explanations" that are thousands of years old based upon no evidence.  Mostly based upon myth.  However, we have cleared up a lot of what needed splainin' over the last couple hundred years (i.e. evolution).  Therefor, it is my opinion (opinion) that our religions are already antiquated.  However, they have SUCH a strong pull for so many, it will take a LONG time for our belief systems to catch up with our new knowledge base and what science has proven to be true.

Religion as a means to explain physical phenomena are basically obsolete. But that's not the only thing that religion does for people.

You are being far too serious for this thread.

There's fire-breathing tyrannosaurs running around. This is no time for frivolity.

 

[bueno]

Our religions are "explanations" that are thousands of years old based upon no evidence.  Mostly based upon myth.  However, we have cleared up a lot of what needed splainin' over the last couple hundred years (i.e. evolution).  Therefor, it is my opinion (opinion) that our religions are already antiquated.  However, they have SUCH a strong pull for so many, it will take a LONG time for our belief systems to catch up with our new knowledge base and what science has proven to be true.

Religion as a means to explain physical phenomena are basically obsolete. But that's not the only thing that religion does for people.

You are being far too serious for this thread.

There's fire-breathing tyrannosaurs running around. This is no time for frivolity.

Actually, Puff couldn't bea tyranosaur. He isprobably a pteradon (which I probably misspelled).

 

[oso diablo]

I would argue that the advancement in science makes me marvel at just how awesome God's creation truely is (admittedly I approach this from the viewpoint of a believer).

the more i learn about the intricacies of the universe, and life on earth, i become more awe-struck, not less.God had it goin' on when He was making all this stuff.

 

[bueno]

I still don't get what the dragons have to do with anything.Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the comedy, just not making the connection of dragons to Jesus.:shuke:

I would have to scroll way back into the thread to confirm, but I think the idea is that, because the earth isn't billions of years old, and because god created all animals first, then man and dinosaurs must have co-existed. Larry Boy then speculates that myths of fire-breathing dragons might really be stories regarding sightings of fire-breathing dinosaurs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

But if dragons are dinosaurs, then dinosaurs and humans had to co-exist. Saint Peter of Yarrow and Saint Lenny of Lipton wouldn't lie to us would they?

Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff and brought him strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff.Oh, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE.Together they would travel on a boat with billowed sail, Jackie kept a look out perched on Puff's gigantic tail.  Noble Kings and princes would bow whene'er they came, pirate ships would lower their flag when Puff roared out his name.Oh, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE.A dragon lives forever, but not so little boys painted wings and giant's rings make way for other toys. One grey night it happened Jackie Paper came no more and Puff that Mighty Dragon, he ceased his fearless roar.His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain, Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane.  Without his life-long friend, Puff could not be brave so Puff that Mighty Dragon sadly slipped into his cave.Oh, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE, Puff the Magic Dragon lived by the sea and frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called HONALEE

I already made a Puff reference. Someone thinks I smoke the crazy weed now. They crazy.

There are thoseof us who don't think you need happy herbs, my friend.

 

[CrossEyed]

I would argue that the advancement in science makes me marvel at just how awesome God's creation truely is (admittedly I approach this from the viewpoint of a believer).

the more i learn about the intricacies of the universe, and life on earth, i become more awe-struck, not less.God had it goin' on when He was making all this stuff.

Another Amen, brother.

 

[NCCommish]

Are you guys denying that Godzilla could breathe fire?

Of course not that would be stupid.

 

[bueno]

Are you guys denying that Godzilla could breathe fire?

Of course not that would be stupid.

I dispute the reason though. If we can light our farts, another animal ought to be able to light his belch, wouldn't you think?Now I admit, this would be more likely in the case of an ungulate, but who has ever been awestruck by a cow?

 

[10993]

If you pretend Larry Boy is Jon Stewart, this is actually a hilarious thread.

 

[NCCommish]

Are you guys denying that Godzilla could breathe fire?

Of course not that would be stupid.

I dispute the reason though. If we can light our farts, another animal ought to be able to light his belch, wouldn't you think?Now I admit, this would be more likely in the case of an ungulate, but who has ever been awestruck by a cow?

I have the Chick-fil-a calendar with the superhero cows. They're cool.

 

[Capella]

If you pretend Larry Boy is Jon Stewart, this is actually a hilarious thread.

while funny, you don't need that for pure hilarity.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

There are plenty of swell people in Europe, but I don't aspire to be European.

Because of their non-belief in god, or the pinko socialism?

c. Their disdain for hygiene products.d. all of the above.I take d. all of the above.

 

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Are you guys denying that Godzilla could breathe fire?

Of course not that would be stupid.

I dispute the reason though. If we can light our farts, another animal ought to be able to light his belch, wouldn't you think?Now I admit, this would be more likely in the case of an ungulate, but who has ever been awestruck by a cow?

Now if it were a 14 story tall cow from Monster Island, I'd be pretty afraid. Godzilla vs. Cowzilla in the Battle for Monster Island.

 

[Smoo]

Interesting, Bueno.  I've heard that elephant story my whole life, and not once has it come capped with the moral of theological disputes (but that's probably because i went to public schools).  Kinda like the teaching of Thanksgiving or Christmas these days.

I like it; thanks for posting.

It's a great poem if you're a gnostic.Reminds you that we are like the blind man: finite beings trying to understand the infinite.

The blind man/elephant parallel is currently being used in advanced theoretical physics in attempts at unification. Theory dualities are being explored. For example, instead of being thought of as incompatible theories, things like Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are now being thought of as "different parts of the same elephant". It's leading to some interesting developments. At least, according to Ed Whitten it is. And he's pretty bright.

Link? Not being sarcastic. I find the thought interesting.

I don't know if there's a link. I heard it on disc 6 of my "Stephen Hawking's Universe" DVD set, they had an interview with Ed Whitten of Princeton (who was regarded, at least at one point, as the heir apparent to Einstein and was described by Scientific American as "the smartest man alive") who talked about modern theories and dualities and used the blind man/elephant comparison during said interview. I don't know how old the set is, I think maybe 5 or 6 years old, so some of it may be dated.

 

[bueno]

Interesting, Bueno.  I've heard that elephant story my whole life, and not once has it come capped with the moral of theological disputes (but that's probably because i went to public schools).  Kinda like the teaching of Thanksgiving or Christmas these days.

I like it; thanks for posting.

It's a great poem if you're a gnostic.Reminds you that we are like the blind man: finite beings trying to understand the infinite.

The blind man/elephant parallel is currently being used in advanced theoretical physics in attempts at unification. Theory dualities are being explored. For example, instead of being thought of as incompatible theories, things like Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are now being thought of as "different parts of the same elephant". It's leading to some interesting developments. At least, according to Ed Whitten it is. And he's pretty bright.

Link? Not being sarcastic. I find the thought interesting.

I don't know if there's a link. I heard it on disc 6 of my "Stephen Hawking's Universe" DVD set, they had an interview with Ed Whitten of Princeton (who was regarded, at least at one point, as the heir apparent to Einstein and was described by Scientific American as "the smartest man alive") who talked about modern theories and dualities and used the blind man/elephant comparison during said interview. I don't know how old the set is, I think maybe 5 or 6 years old, so some of it may be dated.

I attended a Hawking lecture last year. Brilliant guy. Never have attended one of Whitten's. I'd like to someday. I suspect he might have been alluding to the apparent lack of generalists in a science filled with specialists. It's really hard to assimilate everything from trunk to tail.

 

[lastcall4oh]

they'd also tell little Johnny in first grade that Chrsitianity is a lie and those who believe in Creation are dumb... well, in some places they do, at least... (unless no one uses those textbooks that are copywrited in the last few years)

:rotflmao: Science textbooks? In first grade?First graders struggle just to read.Your fear of this supposed anti-Christianity movement is silly.

the first grade thing was kinda not serious, although they did have 1st grade teachers guides telling teachers to say that stuff...they also had textbooks for older kids that had the stuff written down in them....

to many generalities....Who are "they", what states/school districts are "they" from and what are the names of the text books that you are paraphrasing "their" comments on dumb creationists?Form your own opinions Larry, quit regurgitating back what you have been told. Do some research on your own and decide for yourself what you feel is right and what is wrong. If you continue to blindly quote brash, argumentative generalities like this you will continue to get :rotflmao: and from the group.good luck on your quest, you'll need it.

 

[tangfoot]

they had an interview with Ed Whitten of Princeton

FYI, Whitten was on Nova last night.

 

[CrossEyed]

While I agree that Larry sometimes goes over the top in his examples, there really is no denying that there is an anti-Christian, anti-Creation sentiment in our educational institutions.I personally know of a girl who was laughed at by her teacher when she said she believed in Creation in her high school science class. She was then subtly ridiculed the rest of the year by the teacher any time any discussion of evolution came up in the class.

 

[Bokonon]

"I Believe God Created Me In One Day." "Yeah, it looks like he rushed it."Bill Hicks (R.I.P.)

 

[Mr. Pickles]

they had an interview with Ed Whitten of Princeton

FYI, Whitten was on Nova last night.

Elegant UniverseThree hours of string theory available for viewing online. Fascinating stuff. Whitten is prominently featured. Comes off sounding like a robot, which probably makes sense.

 

[Smoo]

they had an interview with Ed Whitten of Princeton

FYI, Whitten was on Nova last night.

Elegant UniverseThree hours of string theory available for viewing online. Fascinating stuff. Whitten is prominently featured. Comes off sounding like a robot, which probably makes sense.

Like an effeminate robot. Yeah, I watched the whole Nova special last night and he didn't say anything new initially that he didn't also say on my Hawking discs. He used his stupid "who lives in the other four universes?" joke again which I've never found funny. What last night's show made apparent to me is that he was using the blind man & elephant story during the Hawking interview to describe the five separate flavours of string theory. So my Hawking discs obviously were made before this Stringapalooza thing where he talked about his new M Theory, that part was all new to me.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

While I agree that Larry sometimes goes over the top in his examples, there really is no denying that there is an anti-Christian, anti-Creation sentiment in our educational institutions.

Not to mention an anti-fire-breathing-dragon bias.

 

[Bull Dozier]

While I agree that Larry sometimes goes over the top in his examples, there really is no denying that there is an anti-Christian, anti-Creation sentiment in our educational institutions.

Not to mention an anti-fire-breathing-dragon bias.

By anti-fire-breathing-dragon, do you mean a bias against fire-breathing dragons, or a bias towards dragons that breath anti-fire materials, such as the ice-breathing dragons?

 

[Smoo]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

 

[Men-in-Cleats]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

What about the psychadelic, multicolor ones I see whenever I drink too much gin?

 

[Smoo]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

What about the psychadelic, multicolor ones I see whenever I drink too much gin?

That's Tiamat. Don't #### with her.

 

[commisholio]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

What about the psychadelic, multicolor ones I see whenever I drink too much gin?

That's Tiamat. Don't #### with her.

Damn I am such a but that made me :rotflmao:.

 

[bueno]

they had an interview with Ed Whitten of Princeton

FYI, Whitten was on Nova last night.

Elegant UniverseThree hours of string theory available for viewing online. Fascinating stuff. Whitten is prominently featured. Comes off sounding like a robot, which probably makes sense.

Like an effeminate robot. Yeah, I watched the whole Nova special last night and he didn't say anything new initially that he didn't also say on my Hawking discs. He used his stupid "who lives in the other four universes?" joke again which I've never found funny. What last night's show made apparent to me is that he was using the blind man & elephant story during the Hawking interview to describe the five separate flavours of string theory. So my Hawking discs obviously were made before this Stringapalooza thing where he talked about his new M Theory, that part was all new to me.

I always figured you lived in one of those othe runiverses, Smoo/

 

[Bull Dozier]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

I thought there were good dragons. Which ones are those?

 

[Nucular George]

I am sorry, but I had to point this one out. Not sure if someone else already has since I am only halfway through this wonderfully eventful thread. Edited to add...this is from one of the sites that Larry has pulled out of his keester at some points. Enjoy.

http://home.att.net/~creationoutreach/pictures/rushmore.htm

The last line is particularly amusing..... (regarding Mt. Rushmore) "Thus, we say it shows design and must have been made by someone."

Are there really people in this world who seriously think that Rushmore was created by natural forces? Have these people not watched the Discover channel? I wonder if they think the Hoover dam was made by beavers?

Carry on. I am going back to reading more of this stuff. This thread is bookmark material.

 

[Outside Contain]

I am sorry, but I had to point this one out. Not sure if someone else already has since I am only halfway through this wonderfully eventful thread. Edited to add...this is from one of the sites that Larry has pulled out of his keester at some points. Enjoy.http://home.att.net/~creationoutreach/pictures/rushmore.htmThe last line is particularly amusing..... (regarding Mt. Rushmore) "Thus, we say it shows design and must have been made by someone."Are there really people in this world who seriously think that Rushmore was created by natural forces? Have these people not watched the Discover channel? I wonder if they think the Hoover dam was made by beavers?Carry on. I am going back to reading more of this stuff. This thread is bookmark material.

 

[wishingwell]

:rotflmao:

 

[CBusAlex]

This is a trend that has begun. It will not be stopped. There may be new religions that bridge the gap

Oh, please don't let it be Scientology. Or (God forbid) the Mormons!

 

[Night Hawks]

After reading page one, I'm making it a mission to read all 27+ pages.

 

[higgins]

bump...

 

[Smoo]

After reading page one, I'm making it a mission to read all 27+ pages.

You won't regret it. This is high comedy.

 

[bueno]

I'm taking up a collection to put a contract out on Higgins.....

 

[1586]

After reading page one, I'm making it a mission to read all 27+ pages.

You won't regret it. This is high comedy.

especially that part where i prove that being an atheist is an anti pragmatic conclusion!by the way, I have happened upon this site:Skeptics annotated bible, great reading for you Non-Christians

 

[Smoo]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

I thought there were good dragons. Which ones are those?

The good dragons are metallic. Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass and ... ... ... damn, I forget the fifth. Copper maybe? The king of the good dragons and nemesis to the evil chromatic dragon, Tiamat, is Bahamut the platinum dragon.

 

[Bull Dozier]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

I thought there were good dragons. Which ones are those?

The good dragons are metallic. Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass and ... ... ... damn, I forget the fifth. Copper maybe? The king of the good dragons and nemesis to the evil chromatic dragon, Tiamat, is Bahamut the platinum dragon.

I'm not sure if I should be impressed with your enthusiasm of answering a question a month old, or scared by it. I think studdying 80s lyrics would be a better use of your time than looking up who the good dragons were.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

After reading page one, I'm making it a mission to read all 27+ pages.

You won't regret it. This is high comedy.

especially that part where i prove that being an atheist is an anti pragmatic conclusion!by the way, I have happened upon this site:Skeptics annotated bible, great reading for you Non-Christians

Genesis (4:3-5) God likes Abel's dead animals better than Cain's fruits and vegetables. Why? Well, no reason is given, but it probably has something to do with the amount of pain, blood, and gore involved.

True dat.

 

[1586]

such as the ice-breathing dragons?

Those are white dragons. Fire-breathers are red. Blue dragons breathe lightning, green dragons breathe chlorine gas, and black dragons breathe acid. They're all quite dangerous.

I thought there were good dragons. Which ones are those?

The good dragons are metallic. Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass and ... ... ... damn, I forget the fifth. Copper maybe? The king of the good dragons and nemesis to the evil chromatic dragon, Tiamat, is Bahamut the platinum dragon.

maybe showing my chemistry ignorance here but, is platinum not metallic?

 

[HarryManback]

Love this thread!

 

[ElGatoLoco]

Dragon Slaying Legends

Dinosaur wasn't a word until the year 1851. We should notice at this fact that apes (aka - gorillas) were considered myths until 1861.

Every culture, however, has myths about dragons and great knights and warriors slaying them. examples:

King Nebucannezzer's ring had a god riding a dragon on it.

When Saddam Hussien rebuilt the city of Babylon and the walls of the city, there were things on the walls that they restored (they didn't draw this stuff there) that appear to look like dinosaurs.

There is a Roman mosaic of 2 long-necked dinosaurs kissing.

Ancient Chinese recipes contain ingredients such as "ground up dragon bone" and are meant seriously.

the dragon heads on Scandanavian ships, why are they there? What made them use a dragon head? What is the purpose? Where did they see the dragon head?

Psalm 148:7 - "Praise the Lord ye dragon"

The Loch Ness Monster

Champ

etc...

Update?

 

[CrossEyed]

Shouldn't this thread be in the Master Index to warn new people about LB's...uh...instability?

 

[ElGatoLoco]

Shouldn't this thread be in the Master Index to warn new people about LB's...uh...instability?

This would be an excellent idea, and I believe it was reqested that this thread shoud be pinned back before the Master Index.