Current Players (2 Viewers)

[Pat Patriot]

Atwater was definitely better than Harrison. Remember, Harrison has only ever made 2 Pro Bowl teams (compared to 8 for Atwater). I think people are remembering Harrison overly fondly because of the success of the Patriots. I love how, on his Wikipedia page, his entire San Diego career (9 years, including both of his pro bowls) is condensed into three sentences, while each individual season with New England is explained in detail. It just goes to show you how his New England tenure has left him dramatically overrated.

Also, being considered the dirtiest player in the entire NFL is definitely not a point in his favor.

Rodney Harrison is certainly not popular with his fellow players unless you talk about his teammates. He didnt even make the Pro Bowl his first year with the Patriots but was All Pro that year. I ignore Pro Bowls and look at All Pro designations. If you have not even been All Pro at least twice in your career, I am not considering you for the Hall (QB being the exception to the rule. QB play is about winning SB's not necessarily all about stats).

I was surprised that those other safeties had more All Pro nods than Harrison.

 

[Jason Wood]

So Warner is going to be the first two time MVP to not make the Hall? I don't think so.

Were MVPs the only criteria, you would have a point. But like all things, it's a confluence of factors that leads to induction. In Warner's case, I think he'll absolutely be the first 2-time MVP excluded because he's also the first 2-time MVP to have virtually nothing else on his resume outside of those years. Other QBs have come closer to approximating Kurt Warner in St. Louis than Warner has had of approximating himself at other stops.

 

[Tau837]

So Warner is going to be the first two time MVP to not make the Hall? I don't think so.

Were MVPs the only criteria, you would have a point. But like all things, it's a confluence of factors that leads to induction. In Warner's case, I think he'll absolutely be the first 2-time MVP excluded because he's also the first 2-time MVP to have virtually nothing else on his resume outside of those years. Other QBs have come closer to approximating Kurt Warner in St. Louis than Warner has had of approximating himself at other stops.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

So Warner is going to be the first two time MVP to not make the Hall? I don't think so.

If Terrell Davis can be the first League and Superbowl MVP to miss the HoF, then Warner can become the first two-time MVP to miss the HoF.

Huge difference between the SB MVP and the league MVP.Warner is a lock.

Warner is so far away from a lock that I doubt he'll get in . . . and I think it won't even be close. Yes, he was a two-time MVP but he did very little else. Those were his only two full seasons--he never played in more than 11 games in a season past that. He had one other year at 3,400 yards (and got hurt) and his next highest total was 2,700 yards. Beyond his two MVP years, his next best seasons for TD passes were 21 and then ELEVEN. Those were the only years he made it to double digits in TD passes. He does not rank in the Top 50 in passes, completions, yardage, or TDs. Yes, he's the all-time leader in completion percentage but that's about it. His story is the best part of his career, and I'm not sure that that alone will get him much consideration.

I think if you heavily weigh career statistics and games played then you will not be voting for Warner. Warner and TD are very interesting dilemmas for the NFL. Gale Sayers got in on a short, spectacular career. Bradshaw got in on the strength of SuperBowl victories and IMHO is probably the least talented QB in the Hall. Aikman got in on SB victories, but with unspectacular yardage/TD numbers.There is no set criteria other than "contribution to the game"...it will be interesting to see if Warner's contribution is valued enough in the eyes of the voters.

I'm like you in that I'd rather see a short but spectacular career rewarded than a long-but-undistinguished career, but I think there's a big point against Warner that's not weighing against Terrell Davis. Terrell Davis was never healthy-but-unspectacular, while Warner was downright mediocre (at best) and was eventually cut by two different teams. In my opinion, HoFers don't get cut while they're still in their prime- and if they are cut, there's a line of teams fighting for their services.Kurt Warner was 31, almost 32 when St. Louis cut him loose, and almost nobody wanted him. He was 32, almost 33 when NY cut him loose, and again, almost nobody wanted him. A healthy Hall of Famer still in his prime (or just barely past his prime) does not get replaced. Not once, not twice, and CERTAINLY not three times like Warner has.

Nobody wanted Kurt Warner for the same reason no one would've wanted Davis if he had been cut and a FA. They were both damaged goods. It's not like Warner was healthy and no one wanted him. A QB with a bad throwing hand isn't very useful.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

You need to be one of two things to make the NFL HOF.

1) A men among boys stat wise in your prime over a significant period vs your peers (Marino, Moon). When the discussion of best player at your position comes up, you better be one of the first 2-3 guys named.

2) A significant contributor to a team that dominates their era culminating in a SB win (Aikman, Montana).

Warner has elements of both, being stronger in the #2 category. Warner is similar to Steve Young in career (came from relative obscurity to put up some of the best numbers on the planet and won a SB).

Warner did it over a much shorter period of time. Yet in that time, he led his team to 2 Super Bowls, averaged 293 passing yards per game and 2.27 TDs per game (that's an average of 4700 & 36 a year). Yes Bulger has put up decent numbers since Warner left, but so did Jeff Garcia after Young left. Heck, the QBs before AND after Young put up very good stats, yet no one uses that against him. If we were having a discussion in 2001 about what QB you'd want to build your team around, Warner's name would be thrown out immediately.

So the real question is... is 3 years of dominance good enough to meet the "significant period" test? This isn't MLB where guys routinely play for 15+ years and all anyone cares about is arbitrary round number milestones. This is the NFL, where the average career is about 4 years.

I would probably vote Warner in.

 

[Tau837]

You need to be one of two things to make the NFL HOF.

1) A men among boys stat wise in your prime over a significant period vs your peers (Marino, Moon). When the discussion of best player at your position comes up, you better be one of the first 2-3 guys named.

2) A significant contributor to a team that dominates their era culminating in a SB win (Aikman, Montana).

Warner has elements of both, being stronger in the #2 category. Warner is similar to Steve Young in career (came from relative obscurity to put up some of the best numbers on the planet and won a SB).

Warner did it over a much shorter period of time. Yet in that time, he led his team to 2 Super Bowls, averaged 293 passing yards per game and 2.27 TDs per game (that's an average of 4700 & 36 a year). Yes Bulger has put up decent numbers since Warner left, but so did Jeff Garcia after Young left. Heck, the QBs before AND after Young put up very good stats, yet no one uses that against him. If we were having a discussion in 2001 about what QB you'd want to build your team around, Warner's name would be thrown out immediately.

So the real question is... is 3 years of dominance good enough to meet the "significant period" test? This isn't MLB where guys routinely play for 15+ years and all anyone cares about is arbitrary round number milestones. This is the NFL, where the average career is about 4 years.

I would probably vote Warner in.

And the answer is no. Same as it is for Terrell Davis.

 

[SSOG]

Nobody wanted Kurt Warner for the same reason no one would've wanted Davis if he had been cut and a FA. They were both damaged goods. It's not like Warner was healthy and no one wanted him. A QB with a bad throwing hand isn't very useful.

Really? What injury concerns surrounded Warner after he got let go from NYG?

 

[SSOG]

It's the slow time of the year, and the HoF finalists have been announced. Time to revisit?