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DeAngelo Williams (1 Viewer)
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supermark_28
Footballguy
Not a homer but I'm bumping it for some insight. I'm wondering if that fumble against the Cards is the icing on the cake.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
most Carolina homers would tell you that Fox is too stubbon to give DeWill the ball
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
Foster is hurt pretty much every season. So far he's been healthy but there's still plenty of time for him to get hurt again and then DeAngelo will get his chance.
switz
Footballguy
DeWill has shown some flashes of running well outside, but overall Foster has still been the better RB. The fumbles are a concern, but I don't see any adjustments coming unless Foster gets hurt.
Foster currently is the leading RB with the most lost fumbles @ 3 (4 total fumbles, 3 lost though). I heard that it took a replay review to overturn his 5th last week.
How can they keep allowing him to play so much? With the QB they have to choose from, I would think they don't need another headache of a fumble-prone RB as well.
How can they keep allowing him to play so much? With the QB they have to choose from, I would think they don't need another headache of a fumble-prone RB as well.
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Give the kid a chance. I'm not sure about his practice and work habits Monday-Saturday, but based on his talent, draft position, and his ability to make big plays. It's time to give him a full time shot.
I really liked him at Memphis, and look forward to seeing him full time in Carolina. BTW, just picked him up on waivers as my 4th/5th RB.
I really liked him at Memphis, and look forward to seeing him full time in Carolina. BTW, just picked him up on waivers as my 4th/5th RB.
Love to Bet football
Footballguy
WOW!!
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
It's a correlation, not a causation.
MarcO
Footballguy
http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=288Item E.
for the record I counted it as 23-5 including post season
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strong
Footballguy
Uh, nice to know that Steve Reed is just pulling numbers out of his butt. Go to NFL.com and you're not going to get 23 and 5... or 23 and 2...
Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but they don't jive with NFLs official stats.
I guess if you add some of the playoff wins you might get up to 23, but you still can't disregard the 7 losses I counted in the regular season.
switz
Footballguy
I'm pulling these from pro-football-reference. I have no stake in this, just curious so I ran the numbers:2003
| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD | Result | Score || 6 ind | 16 85 | 54 | 0 | W | 23-20 | | 10 tam | 22 56 | -2 | 0 | W | 27-24 || 16 det | 21 76 | 38 | 1 | W | 20-14 || 17 nyg | 17 43 | 20 | 0 | W | 37-24 |2004
Code:
| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD | Result | Score || 2 kan | 32 174 | 0 | 1 | W | 28-17 || 4 atl | 19 51 | 54 | 1 | L | 10-27 |
Code:
| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD | Result | Score || 9 tam | 16 23 | 16 | 0 | W | 34-14 || 12 buf | 22 74 | 24 | 0 | W | 13- 9 || 13 atl | 24 131 | 49 | 2 | W | 24- 6 || 15 nor | 21 75 | 9 | 0 | W | 27-10 || 16 dal | 22 68 | 13 | 0 | L | 20-24 || 17 atl | 18 165 | 0 | 1 | W | 44-11 |
Code:
| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD | Result | Score || 1 atl | 15 54 | 20 | 0 | L | 6-20 || 3 tam | 20 82 | 7 | 0 | W | 26-24 || 4 nor | 16 105 | 6 | 1 | W | 21-18 || 5 cle | 24 106 | 12 | 0 | W | 20-12 || 6 bal | 26 58 | 12 | 0 | W | 23-21 || 8 dal | 15 50 | 31 | 1 | L | 14-35 || 16 atl | 28 102 | 5 | 0 | W | 10- 3 || 17 nor | 19 79 | 12 | 1 | W | 31-21 |
Code:
| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD | Result | Score || 1 stl | 17 94 | 7 | 0 | W | 27-13 || 3 atl | 20 122 | 13 | 2 | W | 27-20 || 4 tam | 15 64 | 17 | 0 | L | 7-20 || 5 nor | 19 59 | 0 | 0 | W | 16-13 || 6 ari | 17 43 | 6 | 0 | W | 25-10 |15-54 3.6YPC
15-50 3.4YPC
15-64 4.3YPC
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Not disputing the statistics, but I'm curious if this is just due to Carolina running more in general when they're winning. In games where Foster didn't get 15 carries, did they lose because they didn't give him enough carries, or did they lose because their running game, and offense in general was just ineffective?We all know correlation doesn't imply causation, so saying Foster deserves 15 carries or more based on these statistics isn't taking this analysis deep enough.
Team Legacy
Footballguy
Didn't the guy say "touches" not carries? Not sure that it makes a difference...
MarcO
Footballguy
that is probably where he got the numbers from 20-2 when he gets MORE than 15 carries and then add the 3 playoff games and that is 23-2. good work.
switz
Footballguy
Hard to determine correlation verse causation, but I do know this with my own two eyes:1. When Foster starts the game well, they usually win2. Foster is a better RB than DWill, even though DWill is flashier (flash doesn't win you games)
Neither do fumbles. Just kidding, I don't watch enough Carolina games to judge their relative merits, but I had Foster last year, and he didn't do me any favors. I plugged Williams in last week as a bye week filler, and he had a nice little 120 yard/1 TD day. I'm okay with Foster starting, but a little flash mixed in won't hurt Carolina's chances.
switz
Footballguy
Agreed - using DWill as a COP is good, and they need to get him involved more, but having him be the starting RB when he is inconsistent and not very good between the tackles won't do the team any good.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Panther homer here, and anyone who has read my posts saw that I predicted that Williams would take over by week 4. So I was a couple of weeks off but Foster is horrible. He carries the ball like a loaf of bread and cannot for the life of me understand why he continues to do so. Williams is insanely faster than Foster and seems to hit the hole harder. He doesnt have the power of Foster but for anyone who saw the Cards game he runs like a bat out of hell. I predict if he gets 20 carries a game he would look all world. Fox seems to know more than me though. I look for Williams to start in 2 weeks. I am trying to trade Torry Holt for Williams straight up.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Based on what? The totals in the box score? The guy had 3 carries in the first quarter for 3 yards and did not look impressive at all. He had one carry for 9 yards on the last play of the first half, when the Cardinals were defending against the long pass. In the third quarter the Panthers' offense started moving the ball a bit, but more importantly, the defense put the clamps on Rattay and the Cards' offense. Williams had 2 carries for 17 yards. Then, in the 4th quarter, after the Cardinals defense had been on the field for something like the 20-21 of the last 30 minutes of the game, Williams ripped off 92 yards (88 in the last 3:19 while they were salting away an 8 point lead). I'm not one of these "if you take away the 75 yard run" people, but there wasn't anything in his performance Sunday that made me optimistic he'll be taking the bulk of the carries going forward. And I own the guy. I hope I'm wrong and the coaching staff sees something I didn't. But I have no idea what that would be.
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Seriously. Shouldn't "trying" pretty much consist of:"Hey, want Torry Holt for DeAngelo Williams?"
"#### yeah."
strong
Footballguy
My opinion from the games I've watched and YPC.
They weren't salting away a three score lead. The D knew they were running and rattling off yards like that when the other team is desperate to get the ball back is a good thing... not something to toss away as if they were playing scrubs.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
They had been on the field for 18 of 27 minutes at that point. They were effectively playing scrubs.
strong
Footballguy
Now it makes sense. OP and Steve Reed both said touches, not carries...
I checked the W/L for games where Foster received at least 16 touches from NFL.com and that's where the extra losses came in...
A good record for an RB like Foster that often splits carries with other backs makes sense, too. The Team A has a Blank and Blank record when they rush for more than Z yards has to be one of my least favorite things that announcers consistently say during games....
Max Power
Footballguy
congrats Foster for helping your team win against the (0-6) Rams, (1-4) Saints, (1-5) Falcons, & the (3-3) Cards with a third string QB.
Foster is a very average back and Williams will be special. Too bad Carolina doesnt care.
As for this whole stat thing, its just stupid. Why is the magic number 15? Why not 13? or 20? People can skew stats however they want.
Watch me...
Carolina is UNDEFEATED when Williams gets 20 carries a game.
Foster is a very average back and Williams will be special. Too bad Carolina doesnt care.
As for this whole stat thing, its just stupid. Why is the magic number 15? Why not 13? or 20? People can skew stats however they want.
Watch me...
Carolina is UNDEFEATED when Williams gets 20 carries a game.
How can you say Foster is Fox's guy when Fox drafted Williams?
Cape Fear Canes
Footballguy
cats fan here...fox has been and will always be loyal to his players / asst. coaches to a fault. he loves foster and there is no way that dwill does better than 50 -50 minus an injury to df.
MarcO
Footballguy
if he was special he would have scored on that 75 yard run... really - I'm just curious as to why you think he is "special"?
kevinallen
Footballguy
Wow, DWill is in for a long career if he isnt any better than DeShaun Foster!switz said:
kevinallen
Footballguy
I know that College success doesnt always correlate into NFL success, but I think holding the record for most career all-purpose yardage & 100-yard rushing games might have something to do with being 'special'. I know he played for Memphis and didnt go up against the toughest opponents, but there's no question he has talent (1st Round draft pick).MarcO said:
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Jedimaster21
Footballguy
I have discussed this topic many times, and it is still a clear choice for me. I would much rather have DeAngelo. DWill is unproven, but has shown flashes. He is elusive, has good vision, and is a great receiver. But it really comes down to one thing for me...he hasn't proven that he ISN'T a feature back. Foster has managed to prove this time and time again. He just isn't very good.
kevinallen
Footballguy
One thing that people cant argue with - Carolina didnt draft a RB in the first round (2006) because they were happy with their RB situation.
I hear that Foster is the better player, I hear that Williams is... I think it's time to find out because no one will know until DWill is given a legitimate chance. God knows Foster has been given that chance several times before, now let the guy you spent a first-rounder on get that same opportunity.
I hear that Foster is the better player, I hear that Williams is... I think it's time to find out because no one will know until DWill is given a legitimate chance. God knows Foster has been given that chance several times before, now let the guy you spent a first-rounder on get that same opportunity.
ckalltheway
Footballguy
They both have been given opportunities to be the man and blew it. Foster is the more consistent performer yards wise and blocking wise but has to learn to hang on to the f'in ball. Your boss doesnt care how much of a superstar you are at work as long as you show up and give a decent effort, an NFL coach will put up with mediocre yards as long as you're NOT PUTTING THE BALL ON THE GROUND.
Because they aren't mutually exclusive.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
I picked Williams up off waivers before their bye last week. I think this is a messy situation. I'm not particularly high on either one of these guys. I think they're both injury prone. Foster probably better between the tackles, and Williams better outside and has more burst. I keep expecting Foster to get injured, maybe this is the week for him. It doesn't seem like poor play/fumbles will get him benched...
strong
Footballguy
First, when did Williams get a chance to be the guy?Second, Foster is no superstar.
thatguythere
Footballguy
This guy seems to think he will get a shot....just one guys opinion
Running back
If Fox follows the "hot hand" philosophy, there could be a change at this position. Second-year pro DeAngelo Williams ran wild in the fourth quarter in Arizona after veteran DeShaun Foster had another ordinary game.All the offseason talk about the new offense and blocking scheme hasn't produced big results, and the running game hasn't been much more productive than a year ago.
That puts more pressure on receiver Steve Smith, who remains the only big-play option in the starting lineup.
YASINSKAS' MOVE: Start Williams.
^^^Whoever he is^^
Running back
If Fox follows the "hot hand" philosophy, there could be a change at this position. Second-year pro DeAngelo Williams ran wild in the fourth quarter in Arizona after veteran DeShaun Foster had another ordinary game.All the offseason talk about the new offense and blocking scheme hasn't produced big results, and the running game hasn't been much more productive than a year ago.
That puts more pressure on receiver Steve Smith, who remains the only big-play option in the starting lineup.
YASINSKAS' MOVE: Start Williams.
^^^Whoever he is^^
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
He had a long run in the 4th quarter because there was around 4 minutes left, the Arizona D was tired and had to get right back on the field after an interception by the Panthers, and there was a big hole and Williams hit it. He didn't run wild the whole 4th quarter.
