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Do You Believe That Effective Modern "Work / Life Balance" Is Even Possible? (19/30) (3 Viewers)

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Direct Headline: Americans Are Overworked And Over Work

Michael Blackmon Oct 18, 2021

....In a mass exit dubbed the “Great Resignation” ..., nearly 4 million people left jobs this past June, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics’..... Another 4 million left in July, the fourth consecutive month of such high departure rates. In August, 4.3 million people left their jobs, a record number....Kimbrough, chief economist at LinkedIn, told me ... the “social contract [of] work is being rewritten...”...there are several industries in flux because of worker shortages, including healthcare, transportation, and logistics, which can encompass “everything from truck drivers to warehouse inventory to the people managing supply chains.....”

....She feels like her labor isn’t valued and employers have sometimes explicitly said as much, she told me. “I'm constantly having the fact that I'm replaceable just being shoved in my face. If I felt like I mattered, I would care more. I would do a better job....I would love to work for a place I was loyal to, but I don't think that that exists anymore....”...Employers now face the challenge of figuring out how to retain talent. Some employers ... have chosen to give signing bonuses....Kimbrough, the LinkedIn chief economist, said that white-collar and blue-collar workers are also demanding that employers meet their needs regarding flexibility. Office workers might want to choose which days to come into the office, while those whose work is physically demanding might want more control over the timing of shifts. “They want better pay, but they want work-life balance...That’s the number-one priority.”


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/michaelblackmon/the-great-resignation-stories



VIDEO: Work-life balance — Jeff Bezos Nov 14, 2017

In this Sessions short, Jeff Bezos details why there is no such thing as work-life balance. ....“I think work-life harmony is a good framework....I prefer the word ‘harmony’ to the word ‘balance’ because balance tends to imply a strict tradeoff....In fact, if I’m happy at work, I’m better at home — a better husband and better father.... And if I’m happy at home, I come into work more energized — a better employee and a better boss....”....Bezos keeps an incredible work-life balance that only exists in every employee’s dream. He gets eight hours of sleep every day; eats breakfast at home with his kids; starts work around 10 a.m.; and checks out by 5 p.m.

The New York Times reported that employees at Amazon were routinely asked to work overtime, expected to check work emails past midnight and were often found crying at their desks. Amazon disputed many of the claims at the time. But earlier this year, a set of British newspapers revealed that Amazon’s warehouse workers in the U.K. were required to process 300 packages an hour; some staffers worked so intensely that they had to pee in bottles to save restroom time.

Americans are increasingly working too many hours.... 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females in the U.S. work more than 40 hours every week....A recent Gallup poll survey revealed that the average work week for U.S. full-time employees consists of 47 hours. That almost adds up to an extra full day of work every week....11 percent of those surveyed worked 41-49 hours, 21 percent put in 50-59 hours every week, and a whole 18 percent work 60 or more hours. That means that almost exactly 50 percent of full time workers log more than 40 hours every week...Out of the approximately 200 countries in the world, 134 have laws capping the maximum number of hours an employee can work, including every industrialized nation....However, the United States is one of the minority countries and the only industrialized nation without laws setting the maximum hours of work in a week.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfGbyW6fs5w







Direct Headline: America Gave Up on Overtime—and It’s Costing Workers $35,451 a Year

BY NICK HANAUER APRIL 21, 2022

....If it feels like you’re working longer hours for less money than your parents or grandparents did, it’s because you probably are. Adjusted for inflation, average hourly wages have actually fallen since the early 1970s, while average hours worked have steadily climbed. American workers are increasingly underpaid, overworked, and overwhelmed....What went wrong? In part, overtime pay....

If you’re under the age of 45, you may have no idea that overtime pay is even a thing. But believe it or not, middle-class workers used to get a lot of it, while you likely don’t get any at all. That means that every hour you work over 40 hours a week you work for free, contributing to a giant pool of free labor that modern employers have come to expect and exploit. Profits are up, real wages are down, and income inequality has soared to its highest level since the Gilded Age.....Think about it. If, as your employer, I can convert 2,000 40-hour-per-week jobs into 1,600 50-hour-per week jobs, then I get to pocket the wages of 400 workers. At the median annual wage that comes to over $20 million, more than enough to buy myself a brand new private jet—every single year....

..... Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)...literally changed the way we think about work: by establishing a salary threshold below which workers were guaranteed time-and-a-half pay for every hour worked over 40 hours a week, it ...created both the weekend and the eight-hour day. ....a robust federal overtime standard served as a kind of minimum wage for the middle class, providing both a valuable source of extra income and an invaluable shield against the imposition of exploitative working hours....For more than three decades overtime pay was the norm; most American workers expected to be paid 150 percent of their regular wage for every hour worked over 40 hours a week, and most employers expected to pay it. And since time-and-a-half gets expensive fast, employers were strongly incentivized to hire more workers in order to avoid routinely incurring the added cost....Today’s $35,568 overtime threshold now stands at only 67 percent of the already diminished median wage and covers only 15 percent of salaried workers, compared to over 60 percent in 1975. If you earn more than $35,568 a year (and 85 percent of American workers do), chances are you’ve been misclassified into an “exempt” position that does not receive any overtime pay at all. As the memory of overtime pay fades away, employers are taking full advantage.... 52 percent of full-time workers report working more than 40 hours a week; 39 percent work at least 50 hours a week, and 18 percent work at least 60. Yet few of these workers are paid a penny of overtime for all the extra hours they put it in on the job. Overtime pay is no longer the norm. As a result, Americans are working longer hours at lower wages while employers and shareholders reap record profits.....

...full-time workers report working an average of 47 hours a week. If they got paid an additional time-and-a-half for all seven of those extra hours—instead of the current norm of zero dollars—that would amount to an average 26.25 percent increase in weekly pay. At the current median weekly full-time wage of $1,010, that would come to an additional $13,787 a year (or $27,573 for a two-worker household). And that may even be an underestimate. According to a 2021 survey by the payroll services giant ADP, North American workers now put in an average of nine hours of unpaid overtime every week—the equivalent of $17,726 a year in stolen income ($35,451 for a two-worker household) at the full-time median wage. Either way, it’s a lot of money. Just imagine how much better off the typical middle-class family would be with either a few tens of thousands of dollars a year of additional income—or a few hundreds of hours of reclaimed free time..... Today, “free time” is something you’re expected to surrender to your boss. And the pandemic-inspired work-from-home “revolution” isn’t make things any better. In fact, according to ADP, those working from home report putting in even more unpaid overtime than their traditional workplace counterparts.....

....Of course, do it at a single tech startup and you end up with a bunch of miserable burned-out twenty-somethings working crazy hours in exchange for decent pay and a shot at striking it rich off stock options. But do that 60 million times across the entire economy, and you effectively kill 20 million middle-class jobs. This has been the most underappreciated driver of stagnant wages and rising inequality over the past 50 years.... rising inequality since 1975 is responsible for a $50 trillion upward redistribution of wealth and income from the bottom 90 percent households to those in the top 1 percent—roughly $2.5 trillion in 2018 alone. That $2.5 trillion is enough to more the double median income—enough to pay every single working American in the bottom nine deciles an additional $13,728 a year (an amount remarkably close to the additional $13,787 a year the median wage earner would take home if they were paid time-and-a-half for the average seven hours of overtime worked every week)....


https://time.com/6168310/overtime-pay-history/
 
Direct Headline: The vicious cycle of burnout is leading Americans to quit in droves

Jennifer Liu 5/12/22

... Pay isn’t the only thing leading people to quit in droves.....While 63% of recent quitters say money was a top concern, 53% cited family and personal obligations as reasons why they left an old employer...research indicates understaffing is leading to burnout, which is in turn causing even more people to quit....If employers are serious about keeping workers, they have to raise pay and compensation..... employers should work with employees to figure out how to support their family or personal concerns. He list a a number of solutions depending on the need: providing adequate paid sick leave, granting more shift flexibility, or figuring out how people can work remotely or socially distanced from others....And hiring has only gotten harder in the last year: There are currently two open jobs for every person who wants one....It’s making America’s burnout problem worse, particularly in service industries....Hiring managers are doing what they can to broaden their candidate pools, like by easing educational, experience or location requirements....

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/12/how-employers-are-making-americas-quitting-spree-worse.html



*********


"Neil: Right. I am never goin' back.
Vincent: Then don't take down scores.
Neil: I do what I do best. I take scores. You do what you do best trying to stop guys like me. [shrugs]
Vincent: You never wanted a normal-type life?
Neil: What the #### is that? Barbecues and ballgames?
Vincent: Yeah.
Neil: This regular type life, that your life?
Vincent: No. My life is a disaster zone. I got a stepdaughter so ####ed up, because her real father's this large-type ########. I got a wife, we're passing each other on the down-slope of our marriage. My third. Because, I spend all of my time chasing guys like you around the block. That's my life.
Neil: A guy told me one time: Don't ever let yourself get attached to anything that you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner [pause] Now, if you're on me and you gotta move when I move, how do you expect to keep a...a marriage?
Vincent: That's an interesting point. What are you, a monk?
Neil: No. [pause] I got a woman.
Vincent: What do you tell her?
Neil: I tell her that I'm a salesman.
Vincent: So, if you spot me around the corner...you gonna walk out on this woman? Not even say goodbye?
Neil: That's the discipline.
Vincent: [laughs] You know, I have this recurring dream. I'm sitting at this big banquet table and all the victims of all the murders I ever worked are there...
Neil: I have one where I'm drowning. I gotta wake myself up and start breathing or I'll die in my sleep.
Vincent: You know what that's about?
Neil: Yeah...having enough time.
Vincent: Having enough time...to do what you want to do?
Neil: Yeah.
Vincent: You doing it now?
Neil: No, not yet."

- Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino, Michael Mann's Heat




Here is another topic that is designed to increase discussion and participation in the FFA.

I see this as an interesting topic because life is short and there is a constant trade off for your precious limited time in exchange for resources to acquire options in life, get necessities to survive, and provide for your children and families. I believe this topic is broad enough where high level discussion can be had without delving into real world public policy issues, public administration conflict and generally anything politically related.

Do you believe that effective modern work / life balance is even possible?

If you say "Yes", and you have it, how has that happened for you in your life? What profession or industry? What tradeoffs did you ( and/or your spouse/partner) have to make to achieve that?

If you say "No", then what needs to change? What do you see in your own profession/career/industry that makes this close to impossible for the average person? What are your personal experiences that you can share to illuminate your viewpoint here? If applicable, how has it impacted your role as parent and/or spouse?

Are you currently working in a career/location/company that is chronically understaffed? How has that directly impacted you? In what ways? Do you see it changing? How has this impacted your individual health, including physical, mental and emotional?

Are you working what you deem as "unpaid overtime" in your job/career?
Are you asked to do too much relative to your compensation / actual job duties / what you negotiated upon hiring? Do you feel exploited by your company / boss / employer? What happened? What is the dynamic in play?

What are the specific work / life balance issues that you believe employers should address first? What is at the top of your list?

If you've been in your industry a long time, what is that career path and what changes have you seen happen to either help or hurt the work / life balance of the average employee?

I'll leave this here for others to discuss. (19/30)
 
I started a new job 2 years ago and my work life balance is amazing. Our company really strives for it. We work 9 hours a day and then get every other Friday off. I now average 41-43 hours a week. Even better is the fact that I only go into our plant 1-2 days a week and work from home the other days. My previous job was a 55-70 hour a week job.
 
It’s an American thing. One of the reasons I have a medium-term plan to move to Europe.

Killing yourself to make billionaires more billions is one of the stupidest things out there. I will never work for one of these companies that expects it.

Unless you’re truly working your passion, work to live, don’t live to work.
 
Some quick observations.

I've noticed a marked shift among younger people in their 20s and 30s that are prioritizing quality of work over money.

The "quit the wall street job making tons of money and working crazy hours and now I cut back my expenses / moved and now am doing 3 side hustles to make it work and happier than ever" used to be an odd story. Now it seems way more common.
 
I also think there's a big disconnect between people who own their own business vs work for an owner.

As a business owner, I see lots of other business owner make the mistake of being frustrated when their employees don't work as hard as they do.

I say, "Give them the same equity as you have if you expect them to work as hard as you do". Of course, they can't do that. But many seem to keep the expectation for an employee way too high in my opinion.
 
I started a new job 2 years ago and my work life balance is amazing. Our company really strives for it. We work 9 hours a day and then get every other Friday off. I now average 41-43 hours a week. Even better is the fact that I only go into our plant 1-2 days a week and work from home the other days. My previous job was a 55-70 hour a week job.

Thank you @UncleZen. I'd love to hear more about that. Can you describe more how your company shows they are striving for the balance?

And I do think it's all relative. And that makes it difficult for companies.

I know plenty of people who would agree with that you're saying above.

I also know people who would consider your company a monster for asking people to work 43 hours a week and not be fully remote.
 
On the "employee expectation" thing I had a boss when I was younger in a manufacturing business where we depended on employees assembling products in the plant.

He told me, "It's our job to design the system so an average employee having a below average day can still produce the product at the quality level we expect."

In other words, understand your workforce and have reasonable expectations and THEN design the systems around that.
 
I also think there's a big disconnect between people who own their own business vs work for an owner.

As a business owner, I see lots of other business owner make the mistake of being frustrated when their employees don't work as hard as they do.

I say, "Give them the same equity as you have if you expect them to work as hard as you do". Of course, they can't do that. But many seem to keep the expectation for an employee way too high in my opinion.
Even people who work for an owner, vs people who work for a publicly traded company. Publicly traded company still had an owner, but now he has a boss. And his boss only wants to see growth, and costs cut.

The business I am in now, we compete with publicly traded companies, and the fact is we can be better bosses because if we want to have the best paid entry level employees, because we think it'll be better for us in the long run, we can. Our competitors, who frankly are at the mercy of the stock price and shareholders, offer the bare minimum wage across the board. They have managers along the way that probably see things the same as us, but who will they ever convince to see things their way? Their boss, the "owner" is afraid of losing his job.

I have worked for owners, mostly in hospitality, that believe employees are lucky to have a job with them, and they give themselves a ton of credit for employing people, and paying them money to work there. That works in some countries/areas/industries, with less choice, but most parts of this country, anyone worth keeping will move on, and find something better.
 
I started a new job 2 years ago and my work life balance is amazing. Our company really strives for it. We work 9 hours a day and then get every other Friday off. I now average 41-43 hours a week. Even better is the fact that I only go into our plant 1-2 days a week and work from home the other days. My previous job was a 55-70 hour a week job.
I'm sorry, but they are not striving too hard here. Yes, 41-43 hours is way better than the completely bonkers 55-70 hours, but having to work 9 hour days and average over 40 hours is not really a work/life balance. If your company really cared they would give you every other Friday off without expecting the 9 hour days. Or they would give you a 4 day week at 9 hours a day.

We have been conditioned for so long that these ridiculous hours per week is the norm, thus when a company "offers" you the regular old 40-45 hour a week, we fall into the trap in thinking that they are really concerned about our work/life balance. It's garbage. There have been so plenty of studies showing that productivity increases when work hours are shortened, yet here we are.

A true work/life balance means things like 6+ weeks of vacation, or unlimited sick days, or 100% remote work, or not micromanaging every working hour, or trusting the employee to complete an appropriate amount of work per week/pay period while not having to work ridiculous hours, etc.
 
I started a new job 2 years ago and my work life balance is amazing. Our company really strives for it. We work 9 hours a day and then get every other Friday off. I now average 41-43 hours a week. Even better is the fact that I only go into our plant 1-2 days a week and work from home the other days. My previous job was a 55-70 hour a week job.

Thank you @UncleZen. I'd love to hear more about that. Can you describe more how your company shows they are striving for the balance?

And I do think it's all relative. And that makes it difficult for companies.

I know plenty of people who would agree with that you're saying above.

I also know people who would consider your company a monster for asking people to work 43 hours a week and not be fully remote.
At my last job, when you left, the bosses would still call or email you and really expect answers. You were always tied to the phone. On weekends, they expected you to be there. Now, after 5pm, the place shuts down. THe only emails or rare calls I get are from our suppliers. Our off Fridays are really off. As far as working 43 hours, it's not expected. I was used to working a lot more hours so now, when it's quitting time, I will usually just go ahead and finish what I was working on. As far as going in to the plant, that's always nice to chase people down who don't answer emails and for getting to know your co-workers a bit.
 
I have worked for owners, mostly in hospitality, that believe employees are lucky to have a job with them, and they give themselves a ton of credit for employing people, and paying them money to work there. That works in some countries/areas/industries, with less choice, but most parts of this country, anyone worth keeping will move on, and find something better.

That's a real thing too, right? It's supply and demand.

I sometimes see business owners, who mostly lean toward capitalists and free market, be upset when the rules of capitalism and free market work in the favor of the employee.

Depending on the economic conditions, sometimes jobs are scarce. And therefore more valuable. Sometimes employees are scarce and employees are lucky to have people to fill the job. It moves back and forth and both sides have to understand where they are.
 
I can remember years ago I went next door the building at Bryant Boats where a company sewed clothes for Wal Mart.

We had three people who sewed for us in making our boat upholstery. But they had a whole room full of people sewing. Working conditions and lighting didn't look great.

I asked him what he paid his people. He said, "Minimum wage". I was surprised it was that low and I said, "Really? Minimum wage?"

He said, "Hell yeah. I have to. Government makes me".

He thought minimum wage was too much.

And truthfully, I guess it was for him as their factory closed a year or so later and moved work to Mexico.
 
If I had a "secret" at Bryant Boats it was simply paying people more money and making it a better place to work.

We were in a very competitive area for workforce as Sea Ray, Master Craft, Malibu and others had manufacturing plants in our area.

My method was simple. Find out what Sea Ray paid for an hourly rate for a job, and bump it 25%. Plus have a 4 day work week (4, ten hour days) and make it a nice place to work.

We had I think less than 5 people quit in 20 years. And whenever we had an opening, we never had to run a Help Wanted ad as there was a huge line of friends of employees and people that knew us who wanted a job.

Our warranty rates were industry leading low as the quality was high. We had virtually zero turnover.

We had a consultant one time that told me I was massively overpaying on labor as our costs were higher than industry standards. And they were. But that's only part of the picture. Overall quality of life plus warranty expenses plus a zillion more things all factor into it.
 
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At my last job, when you left, the bosses would still call or email you and really expect answers. You were always tied to the phone. On weekends, they expected you to be there. Now, after 5pm, the place shuts down. THe only emails or rare calls I get are from our suppliers. Our off Fridays are really off. As far as working 43 hours, it's not expected. I was used to working a lot more hours so now, when it's quitting time, I will usually just go ahead and finish what I was working on. As far as going in to the plant, that's always nice to chase people down who don't answer emails and for getting to know your co-workers a bit.

Thank you @UncleZen. May I ask how old you are and what part of the country the plant is in? I've found there to be some differences too in age and geography.
 
I'm sorry, but they are not striving too hard here. Yes, 41-43 hours is way better than the completely bonkers 55-70 hours, but having to work 9 hour days and average over 40 hours is not really a work/life balance. If your company really cared they would give you every other Friday off without expecting the 9 hour days. Or they would give you a 4 day week at 9 hours a day.

We have been conditioned for so long that these ridiculous hours per week is the norm, thus when a company "offers" you the regular old 40-45 hour a week, we fall into the trap in thinking that they are really concerned about our work/life balance. It's garbage. There have been so plenty of studies showing that productivity increases when work hours are shortened, yet here we are.

A true work/life balance means things like 6+ weeks of vacation, or unlimited sick days, or 100% remote work, or not micromanaging every working hour, or trusting the employee to complete an appropriate amount of work per week/pay period while not having to work ridiculous hours, etc.

This can be a good discussion. I think it helps if we can refrain from calling different opinions "garbage" or "ridiculous".
 
One big thing I see is people are free to have a wide range of what feels like the right balance for them.

I have a friend who runs his company and is firm about only asking for 30 hours per week from employees.

I have other friends who ask much more.

Some pay way above market rates. Others don't.

There are lots of components that factor in to what makes one happy with a particular "work / life balance" in my opinion.
 
We had a consultant one time that told me I was massively overpaying on labor as our costs were higher than industry standards. And they were. But that's only part of the picture. Overall quality of life plus warranty expenses plus a zillion more things all factor into it.
Oy, consultants. 😔

As a boss, there's also the incredible and multi-pronged pain in the caboose to be dealing with turnover, and new employees, and onboarding and training and firing that I don't think gets factored in. Much rather pay a little more to my people and have them actually feel lucky
 
Oy, consultants. 😔

As a boss, there's also the incredible and multi-pronged pain in the caboose to be dealing with turnover, and new employees, and onboarding and training and firing that I don't think gets factored in. Much rather pay a little more to my people and have them actually feel lucky

Agreed. We used to get accolades for making it a good place to work. That's nice. And it's a better way to live I think as the owner.

But even if it weren't, I could make the case it was the more profitable way to operate by eliminating turnover and onboarding costs and mistakes that naturally come from new hires. But those numbers are difficult to quantify so most businesses don't go there. Or more likely, in a bigger business, there is not one person responsible for all those things. In our case, I was so I cared about all of it and how it all fit together.
 
At Footballguys, we don't have free interns. I've no doubt we could add a ton of people and not pay them anything.

But that kind of sucks. Not everyone is in a position where they can afford to work for free. Plus it just feels wrong for us to make money on a product and not pay people.

So if you do intern work at FBG, you're paid $20 an hour. At the end of the day, it's not a significant amount of money. We don't have that much work for them.

Again, it just feels like the right thing to do. But even if it weren't, it's likely the smart thing to do as who knows where those interns wind up one day and how paying them for their work might have given them a positive feel for our company and they are able to help us down the road with something. That's not why you do it, but it's also a reality I think.
 
Honestly, most people don’t really want “balance”. We want better, and meaningful work and connections.

My favorite job ever was unsustainable over a long term, but for two years I loved it. Even being deployed away from home, which was hard in the family, was meaningful and we made many long lasting connections. I made sure to talk with my family when I could and when I returned we made the most of it. But that absolutely was not “balance”. Then the next job was less meaningful but better for the family. The job I’m in now has been fantastic for the family and I enjoy it. But to hear others, including in this thread, they seem to think 40 hours a week means it isn’t “balanced” Unless you get more time off - which just goes to the whole idea being relative.

I feel life is better with a job you enjoy enough and find meaning in, and 40 hours a week isn’t too much. It does help that we only commute 2x/week now and those two days help keep connections in the workplace.

We usually want “better” than our current life, at least in some ways. Generally speaking it’s in our nature to want more, compare ourselves to others who we tend to only see the ways they have it “better” than us. If we can get past that mindset, we’re generally happier.

It’s not really even a matter of pay. Once you’re past a decent living wage.

Too many people (myself included at times) want to avoid struggle and hardship. But that is often where we find the most contentment, having done hard things - more so if they’re meaningful hard things.

I don’t want balance. I want meaningful work, to make memories, and close connections with those I love, while engaging with new people. I think many have come to this same realization, including that it’s not about the money for most of us.
 
Honestly, most people don’t really want “balance”. We want better, and meaningful work and connections.

My favorite job ever was unsustainable over a long term, but for two years I loved it. Even being deployed away from home, which was hard in the family, was meaningful and we made many long lasting connections. I made sure to talk with my family when I could and when I returned we made the most of it. But that absolutely was not “balance”. Then the next job was less meaningful but better for the family. The job I’m in now has been fantastic for the family and I enjoy it. But to hear others, including in this thread, they seem to think 40 hours a week means it isn’t “balanced” Unless you get more time off - which just goes to the whole idea being relative.

I feel life is better with a job you enjoy enough and find meaning in, and 40 hours a week isn’t too much. It does help that we only commute 2x/week now and those two days help keep connections in the workplace.

We usually want “better” than our current life, at least in some ways. Generally speaking it’s in our nature to want more, compare ourselves to others who we tend to only see the ways they have it “better” than us. If we can get past that mindset, we’re generally happier.

It’s not really even a matter of pay. Once you’re past a decent living wage.

Too many people (myself included at times) want to avoid struggle and hardship. But that is often where we find the most contentment, having done hard things - more so if they’re meaningful hard things.

I don’t want balance. I want meaningful work, to make memories, and close connections with those I love, while engaging with new people. I think many have come to this same realization, including that it’s not about the money for most of us.

Agreed @-OZ- That's what I mean about how I think it's our choice to choose what we want out of work.
 
I’ve been working for a large MNC in the Renewable Energy sector for 16 yrs. I see these 2 things all the time:
1-Every yr there is a look at the Forecasted profits near the 3rd Qtr of the yr. And someone determines that we’re not going to make our “numbers”.
So what happens ? They put a unilateral “hiring freeze” out there or make it nearly impossible to replace someone. What ends up happening is that some people quit & they don’t backfill those positions (or they delay backfilling them) & the result is the remaining EEs have to try to pick up the slack & this increases hrs/wk. I honestly feel like Mgmt then looks at the situation like “We should keep this situation up & make it the expected norm”.
I feel like some managers look at their EEs & keep throwing things at them “because you don’t look like you’re totally drowning “.

2-I got strongarmed into a newly created position over a yr ago….and w/ no incr in pay & no direct reports. Then I quickly realized that the responsibilities were off the charts & they stuffed “10 LBs of rocks in a 5lb bag”. (FYI: I consistently get between 200-250 e-mails a wk).
To make matters worse I learned that my counterpart in Germany has at least 6+ EEs under him.
A lot of countries in Europe have Workers Councils where layoffs have to be approved by them.
 
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I work more than I should, but I love my job. Sure, it has its stresses and challenges, but in my profession I’d have a hard time finding anything closer to a dream job than what I have now (and it took me nearly 20 years to find it). So while I work a lot, I don’t mind it so much. And I do find that I still have time for other non-work pursuits as I spend a good deal of time on charitable activities and playing in two different bands (and family activities back before we were empty nesters). What I definitely don’t get, balance-wise, is enough sleep. And I’m sure that’s affecting my health.
 
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Honestly, most people don’t really want “balance”. We want better, and meaningful work and connections.

My favorite job ever was unsustainable over a long term, but for two years I loved it. Even being deployed away from home, which was hard in the family, was meaningful and we made many long lasting connections. I made sure to talk with my family when I could and when I returned we made the most of it. But that absolutely was not “balance”. Then the next job was less meaningful but better for the family. The job I’m in now has been fantastic for the family and I enjoy it. But to hear others, including in this thread, they seem to think 40 hours a week means it isn’t “balanced” Unless you get more time off - which just goes to the whole idea being relative.

I feel life is better with a job you enjoy enough and find meaning in, and 40 hours a week isn’t too much. It does help that we only commute 2x/week now and those two days help keep connections in the workplace.

We usually want “better” than our current life, at least in some ways. Generally speaking it’s in our nature to want more, compare ourselves to others who we tend to only see the ways they have it “better” than us. If we can get past that mindset, we’re generally happier.

It’s not really even a matter of pay. Once you’re past a decent living wage.

Too many people (myself included at times) want to avoid struggle and hardship. But that is often where we find the most contentment, having done hard things - more so if they’re meaningful hard things.

I don’t want balance. I want meaningful work, to make memories, and close connections with those I love, while engaging with new people. I think many have come to this same realization, including that it’s not about the money for most of us.

Fantastic post.
 
Got lucky with my job of the past 11 years. Always had the freedom to take care of personal stuff which mostly revolved around being available for kids activities. It helps working close to home so that you can just bounce out for a couple of hours and just make up the time (and even that didn't frequently need to happen) at a later point in the day. But I think an important thing was stopping my career advancement where I didn't have many responsibilities. I'm just a cog in the wheel but luckily again a cog that's in high demand so having lots of lateral career options gave me a lot of leverage.
 
I'm sorry, but they are not striving too hard here. Yes, 41-43 hours is way better than the completely bonkers 55-70 hours, but having to work 9 hour days and average over 40 hours is not really a work/life balance. If your company really cared they would give you every other Friday off without expecting the 9 hour days. Or they would give you a 4 day week at 9 hours a day.

We have been conditioned for so long that these ridiculous hours per week is the norm, thus when a company "offers" you the regular old 40-45 hour a week, we fall into the trap in thinking that they are really concerned about our work/life balance. It's garbage. There have been so plenty of studies showing that productivity increases when work hours are shortened, yet here we are.

A true work/life balance means things like 6+ weeks of vacation, or unlimited sick days, or 100% remote work, or not micromanaging every working hour, or trusting the employee to complete an appropriate amount of work per week/pay period while not having to work ridiculous hours, etc.

This can be a good discussion. I think it helps if we can refrain from calling different opinions "garbage" or "ridiculous".
Sorry, the garbage was directed at companies who prey on all of us, not at anyone's opinion. However, I won't back down from my assertion that working 70 hours a week as the norm is anything other than ridiculous.
 
Work life “balance” is a myth, especially in a productive society. Trying to achieve a work life “harmony“ should be the goal. And that looks different for everyone. This country’s greatness was founded on hard work, dedication and innovation, it’s literally what built us. Hard work is still a prerequisite for our continued greatness despite the utopian belief we can all work from home with unlimited time off and top of the market pay. Are there some jobs this is possible, sure. As a society at whole? Not until the entire world is automated.
 
Some quick observations.

I've noticed a marked shift among younger people in their 20s and 30s that are prioritizing quality of work over money.

The "quit the wall street job making tons of money and working crazy hours and now I cut back my expenses / moved and now am doing 3 side hustles to make it work and happier than ever" used to be an odd story. Now it seems way more common.

I just hired two people on my team who left BigLaw and took 40-50% pay cuts to work an in-house job with non-crazy hours and a super cool boss. The number of young sharp attorneys who want to make partner at big firms and cash piles of OtisBucks(tm) is definitely dwindling.
 
I've been very critical of my industry recently, but I will give academia lots and lots of credit for being friendly on this issue. As an administrator, I can't choose my own hours like I could when I was a faculty member, but I still work approximately 6:30-4:00 most days which is exactly what I would choose anyway if it were totally up to me. I rarely do any actual work on the weekends, aside from the occasional recruitment event.

If I ever decided to return to faculty life, I could totally coast for a long time. By "coast," I mean showing up to teach my classes, hold office hours, and attend department meetings and that's it, with summers 100% off. My career is at a point where there is no pressure whatsoever to publish or engage in any meaningful research -- I could completely blow that off and nobody would say a word for at least 5 years, when it would start to become an issue with one of our specialty accreditors. Depending on how my finances look, I might consider this as a phased-retirement thing in a few years.
 
Work life “balance” is a myth, especially in a productive society. Trying to achieve a work life “harmony“ should be the goal. And that looks different for everyone. This country’s greatness was founded on hard work, dedication and innovation, it’s literally what built us. Hard work is still a prerequisite for our continued greatness despite the utopian belief we can all work from home with unlimited time off and top of the market pay. Are there some jobs this is possible, sure. As a society at whole? Not until the entire world is automated.
None of us will be around to collect, but it would fun to take bets on the relative position of Europe vs. South Korea 100 years from now. I mean, one is already pretty much a cross between a retirement home and a giant museum. The other is debating whether to have a 70-hour work week. I know who I would bet on.
 
This country’s greatness was founded on hard work, dedication and innovation, it’s literally what built us. Hard work is still a prerequisite for our continued greatness despite the utopian belief we can all work from home with unlimited time off and top of the market pay
I'm going after personal happiness and work/life balance/harmony whatever, and the continuing greatness of this country is not entering the equation even a little bit.

I've been to other places, and they don't get emails after hours, and put in 55 hours a week, and they seem to have happy families.
 
I've been very critical of my industry recently, but I will give academia lots and lots of credit for being friendly on this issue. As an administrator, I can't choose my own hours like I could when I was a faculty member, but I still work approximately 6:30-4:00 most days which is exactly what I would choose anyway if it were totally up to me. I rarely do any actual work on the weekends, aside from the occasional recruitment event.

If I ever decided to return to faculty life, I could totally coast for a long time. By "coast," I mean showing up to teach my classes, hold office hours, and attend department meetings and that's it, with summers 100% off. My career is at a point where there is no pressure whatsoever to publish or engage in any meaningful research -- I could completely blow that off and nobody would say a word for at least 5 years, when it would start to become an issue with one of our specialty accreditors. Depending on how my finances look, I might consider this as a phased-retirement thing in a few years.
This post bring up a great point as well as speaks to the harmony I referred too. The state of one’s career, their goals and their ambitions weight heavily into the “balance” equation. Finding a spot in one’s growth (and often earnings) when you’re happy and the ”balance” can start to even out is important. I’ve had many friends reach a level of success they are comfortable with and decide to stay there. I myself still want to achieve more, so I’m working harder than them to reach that. No path is better than the other, it’s all just personal choice. But the idea we can just skip the hard work in life is laughable to me (not implying you‘re saying that here, just speaking to the larger group), and while some people luck into an “easy“ life the overwhelming majority of us are going to have to work for it.
 
This country’s greatness was founded on hard work, dedication and innovation, it’s literally what built us. Hard work is still a prerequisite for our continued greatness despite the utopian belief we can all work from home with unlimited time off and top of the market pay
I'm going after personal happiness and work/life balance/harmony whatever, and the continuing greatness of this country is not entering the equation even a little bit.

I've been to other places, and they don't get emails after hours, and put in 55 hours a week, and they seem to have happy families.
And that’s the awesome power of personal choice. Though I’m speaking to the larger context. There are certainly happy families all over this world, even in countries that like North Korea or Mogadishu. But it’s hard to deny that big factor that has lead to America’s greatness and position as a world leader is hard work.
 
This country’s greatness was founded on hard work, dedication and innovation, it’s literally what built us. Hard work is still a prerequisite for our continued greatness despite the utopian belief we can all work from home with unlimited time off and top of the market pay
I'm going after personal happiness and work/life balance/harmony whatever, and the continuing greatness of this country is not entering the equation even a little bit.

I've been to other places, and they don't get emails after hours, and put in 55 hours a week, and they seem to have happy families.
And that’s the awesome power of personal choice. Though I’m speaking to the larger context. There are certainly happy families all over this world, even in countries that like North Korea or Mogadishu. But it’s hard to deny that big factor that has lead to America’s greatness and position as a world leader is hard work.
I don’t deny it, but this thread is about work/life balance, not ”should everyone sacrifice for the greatness of this country?’
 
This country’s greatness was founded on hard work, dedication and innovation, it’s literally what built us. Hard work is still a prerequisite for our continued greatness despite the utopian belief we can all work from home with unlimited time off and top of the market pay
I'm going after personal happiness and work/life balance/harmony whatever, and the continuing greatness of this country is not entering the equation even a little bit.

I've been to other places, and they don't get emails after hours, and put in 55 hours a week, and they seem to have happy families.
And that’s the awesome power of personal choice. Though I’m speaking to the larger context. There are certainly happy families all over this world, even in countries that like North Korea or Mogadishu. But it’s hard to deny that big factor that has lead to America’s greatness and position as a world leader is hard work.
I don’t deny it, but this thread is about work/life balance, not ”should everyone sacrifice for the greatness of this country?’
Fair point, though I see them as fairly intertwined. I guess it comes down to a defining the discussion as about the individual or about the group. Im thinking in the group context clearly.
 
This post bring up a great point as well as speaks to the harmony I referred too. The state of one’s career, their goals and their ambitions weight heavily into the “balance” equation. Finding a spot in one’s growth (and often earnings) when you’re happy and the ”balance” can start to even out is important. I’ve had many friends reach a level of success they are comfortable with and decide to stay there. I myself still want to achieve more, so I’m working harder than them to reach that. No path is better than the other, it’s all just personal choice. But the idea we can just skip the hard work in life is laughable to me (not implying you‘re saying that here, just speaking to the larger group), and while some people luck into an “easy“ life the overwhelming majority of us are going to have to work for it.
This is me. I could definitely, 100% move up if I wanted to do so, but I'd have to relocate. For me personally, it's not worth it. I'll forgo a raise in exchange for staying in a job that I can do on autopilot in a town/region I like. No objection at all to people who choose otherwise, of course. If I were earning half my current salary, for example, I'd definitely be hustling to catch up, but I'm pretty much at my own personal set-point in terms of feeling like I have enough stuff and would prefer to "buy" leisure.

For example, the guy who hired me into my current role left several years ago to move into the next higher position at another school. When he took the job, he knew he was going to be asked to make some budget cuts, during a time when his new institution was in the middle of a unionization drive, which he did. Then, a couple of years later, you-know-what came along. Lots of people burned through lots of political capital during the pandemic, and he didn't have a whole lot to spare. He got hit with a no-confidence vote last semester and resigned. He's totally fine with that, and I believe him when he says that he doesn't lose sleep over it. He will land another job, probably as a designated "fixer" type, and that suits his personality. Screw that. I have enough drama as it is.
 
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This post bring up a great point as well as speaks to the harmony I referred too. The state of one’s career, their goals and their ambitions weight heavily into the “balance” equation. Finding a spot in one’s growth (and often earnings) when you’re happy and the ”balance” can start to even out is important. I’ve had many friends reach a level of success they are comfortable with and decide to stay there. I myself still want to achieve more, so I’m working harder than them to reach that. No path is better than the other, it’s all just personal choice. But the idea we can just skip the hard work in life is laughable to me (not implying you‘re saying that here, just speaking to the larger group), and while some people luck into an “easy“ life the overwhelming majority of us are going to have to work for it.
This is me. I could definitely, 100% move up if I wanted to do so, but I'd have to relocate. For me personally, it's not worth it. I'll forgo a raise in exchange for staying in a job that I can do on autopilot in a town/region I like. No objection at all to people who choose otherwise, of course. If I were earning half my current salary, for example, I'd definitely be hustling to catch up, but I'm pretty much at my own personal set-point in terms of feeling like I have enough stuff and would prefer to "buy" leisure.
Congrats on finding the harmony.
 
I think a lot of this comes down to something as simple as "self awareness".

Know what you like and know what you want. And know what you're good at.

Then it requires some "situational awareness" and understanding the reality of the world.

A great question to ask, and one I ask regularly is "At what cost?"

Everything has a cost. And hopefully a benefit.

You may take that new job. It has the benefits of more money and more status.

But the cost is you're in way more meetings or you're home less.

You have to weigh that out and be honest about all of it and how it all fits together.

I think the biggest thing on this topic is not how the US is stupid or Sweden is awesome or companies are terrible. I think it's finding what you want and where you can fit in and get it.
 
This post bring up a great point as well as speaks to the harmony I referred too. The state of one’s career, their goals and their ambitions weight heavily into the “balance” equation. Finding a spot in one’s growth (and often earnings) when you’re happy and the ”balance” can start to even out is important. I’ve had many friends reach a level of success they are comfortable with and decide to stay there. I myself still want to achieve more, so I’m working harder than them to reach that. No path is better than the other, it’s all just personal choice. But the idea we can just skip the hard work in life is laughable to me (not implying you‘re saying that here, just speaking to the larger group), and while some people luck into an “easy“ life the overwhelming majority of us are going to have to work for it.
This is me. I could definitely, 100% move up if I wanted to do so, but I'd have to relocate. For me personally, it's not worth it. I'll forgo a raise in exchange for staying in a job that I can do on autopilot in a town/region I like. No objection at all to people who choose otherwise, of course. If I were earning half my current salary, for example, I'd definitely be hustling to catch up, but I'm pretty much at my own personal set-point in terms of feeling like I have enough stuff and would prefer to "buy" leisure.
It is a great feeling when you get to that point. Where you can just cruise along while still making enough to live what you find to be an enjoyable life and while still having enough of a cushion in place to handle any reasonable unintended circumstances. The kids are teenagers now so its a lot less about having the time to spend with them and more about just having a low stress job that allows me to do the things I want to do personally outside of work.
 
Was listening to Naval Ravikant on a podcast yesterday talking about all this and Warren Buffet came up. (Ravikant has lots on this work and life topic)

They were talking about "how can the guy eat McDonalds and drink Coke every day and be living that long and be that sharp?" and they legit thought it was how he keeps his life low stress. He's taking walks and playing bridge while and holding his zillions way more loosely than most would in his case.
 
Honestly, most people don’t really want “balance”. We want better, and meaningful work and connections.

My favorite job ever was unsustainable over a long term, but for two years I loved it. Even being deployed away from home, which was hard in the family, was meaningful and we made many long lasting connections. I made sure to talk with my family when I could and when I returned we made the most of it. But that absolutely was not “balance”. Then the next job was less meaningful but better for the family. The job I’m in now has been fantastic for the family and I enjoy it. But to hear others, including in this thread, they seem to think 40 hours a week means it isn’t “balanced” Unless you get more time off - which just goes to the whole idea being relative.

I feel life is better with a job you enjoy enough and find meaning in, and 40 hours a week isn’t too much. It does help that we only commute 2x/week now and those two days help keep connections in the workplace.

We usually want “better” than our current life, at least in some ways. Generally speaking it’s in our nature to want more, compare ourselves to others who we tend to only see the ways they have it “better” than us. If we can get past that mindset, we’re generally happier.

It’s not really even a matter of pay. Once you’re past a decent living wage.

Too many people (myself included at times) want to avoid struggle and hardship. But that is often where we find the most contentment, having done hard things - more so if they’re meaningful hard things.

I don’t want balance. I want meaningful work, to make memories, and close connections with those I love, while engaging with new people. I think many have come to this same realization, including that it’s not about the money for most of us.
I believe I’ve found a decent balance, that contrasts with much of the above. I chose a job I can tolerate most of the time, with a decent wage. But I don’t love it. Still, it’s meaningful work.

When I first started, I had three position, working far too many hours. After a couple years, I realized that was bunk, quit 2/3 of them, and switched to part time. That was 17 years ago. Best decision I ever made.

Now I work one week on, 3 off. Workweeks are 70+ hours, if I do my shifts consecutively. But I often swap out a day mid-week, to decompress.

Working less allows me to cultivate other interests, mostly active things, which hopefully contribute to health. My wife and I also travel a lot. Because most people don’t have as much free time, we coordinate trips with several groups of friends/family throughout the year. I believe the connections and memories we make during leisure time are far more important than those on the job. And we still challenge our minds and bodies, just not with the stresses of our occupation.

I think it’s important not to get wrapped up with wanting more, especially material possessions. Living simply is the way to go. While some of our hobbies are expensive (ie. Skiing), we aren’t keeping up with the Joneses by any means. A small home, old cars and other “stuff” serve us well.

When I’ve had significant pay raises, I recalibrated to reduce my FTE (wife took some convincing, but gradually cut back as well). Ultimately, time, especially when fully functional (mind AND body), is our most valuable resource IMO. On their deathbeds, people want more time with people they care about, not their jobs.
 
I was an associate at medium sized Architectural firm for 20 years. Pandemic hit and I worked from home, same as everyone else in the professional world. It really opened my eyes to how much I was married to my job. Prior to Covid I'd leave my house at 6:30, drive into the city for an hour and a half commute, work +/-9-10 hours, eat lunch at my desk and then white knuckle it back to have a late dinner with my family before my girls went to bed. Often worked evenings and weekends.

When my office started moving toward getting back into the office, I also happened to be in talks about becoming a partner-something that was my goal for the last two decades. When push finally came to shove I realized that the pandemic completely readjusted my priorities (or shined a better light on what my priorities really were). I backed out of the partnership talks, gave my notice and started my own firm.

Its been a year and a half. I have breakfast with my family, put my girls on the bus, go for a walk in the park with my wife every morning, take her out to lunch every week. We eat dinner together every night, have regular game nights, book nights, movie nights. I spend almost no time in the car, I work when I want to, I take the jobs that I want to do, and my biggest priority-spending time with my wife and watching my 7 and 12 year old girls grow up-is my main focus.

The pandemic was obviously horrible in countless ways, but it truly changed my life for the better. I feel blessed to have a work/life balance that puts my sanity and my family above all else. I've heard similar stories from friends of mine as well.
 
I was an associate at medium sized Architectural firm for 20 years. Pandemic hit and I worked from home, same as everyone else in the professional world. It really opened my eyes to how much I was married to my job. Prior to Covid I'd leave my house at 6:30, drive into the city for an hour and a half commute, work +/-9-10 hours, eat lunch at my desk and then white knuckle it back to have a late dinner with my family before my girls went to bed. Often worked evenings and weekends.

When my office started moving toward getting back into the office, I also happened to be in talks about becoming a partner-something that was my goal for the last two decades. When push finally came to shove I realized that the pandemic completely readjusted my priorities (or shined a better light on what my priorities really were). I backed out of the partnership talks, gave my notice and started my own firm.

Its been a year and a half. I have breakfast with my family, put my girls on the bus, go for a walk in the park with my wife every morning, take her out to lunch every week. We eat dinner together every night, have regular game nights, book nights, movie nights. I spend almost no time in the car, I work when I want to, I take the jobs that I want to do, and my biggest priority-spending time with my wife and watching my 7 and 12 year old girls grow up-is my main focus.

The pandemic was obviously horrible in countless ways, but it truly changed my life for the better. I feel blessed to have a work/life balance that puts my sanity and my family above all else. I've heard similar stories from friends of mine as well.
Very happy for you brah.

We have been fed this stuff about the amount of work that is necessary, "what it takes", and it's totally bull****
 
I was an associate at medium sized Architectural firm for 20 years. Pandemic hit and I worked from home, same as everyone else in the professional world. It really opened my eyes to how much I was married to my job. Prior to Covid I'd leave my house at 6:30, drive into the city for an hour and a half commute, work +/-9-10 hours, eat lunch at my desk and then white knuckle it back to have a late dinner with my family before my girls went to bed. Often worked evenings and weekends.

When my office started moving toward getting back into the office, I also happened to be in talks about becoming a partner-something that was my goal for the last two decades. When push finally came to shove I realized that the pandemic completely readjusted my priorities (or shined a better light on what my priorities really were). I backed out of the partnership talks, gave my notice and started my own firm.

Its been a year and a half. I have breakfast with my family, put my girls on the bus, go for a walk in the park with my wife every morning, take her out to lunch every week. We eat dinner together every night, have regular game nights, book nights, movie nights. I spend almost no time in the car, I work when I want to, I take the jobs that I want to do, and my biggest priority-spending time with my wife and watching my 7 and 12 year old girls grow up-is my main focus.

The pandemic was obviously horrible in countless ways, but it truly changed my life for the better. I feel blessed to have a work/life balance that puts my sanity and my family above all else. I've heard similar stories from friends of mine as well.
Well done. I think you made an excellent choice.
 

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