Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well, that’s not going to happen and I’m far from “outraged” - just made a statement that Tebow may be a little self absorbed.
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Dynasty & Redraft: TE Tim Tebow, Jaguars (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
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rockaction
Footballguy
This is going (not surprisingly) like the political threads where a person takes a position and gets accused of vehemently defending it to the death, instead of the conversation operating with the understanding that one might casually have an opinion which one thought they might share. I've found that often, people perceive the written word to have staked out something dramatic when other people might be looking just to shoot the proverbial breeze.
Happens to me a bunch.
Y U SO VEHEMENT?
I'm not, really. Just holding an opinion.
Defending Anarchy's claim, I can see in this case, though, that Twitter and other media outlets have harped all over this decision as an outrage of sorts, thus maybe leading Anarchy to mistakenly attribute the outrage to you.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I wasn't directing anything to anyone specifically. IMO, it's training camp . . . between official camp roster spots and guys on various injury lists there are close to 3,000 players involved (plus street free agents). Tebow or Jacobs or anyone else really isn't preventing someone from trying to make a team. The issue I have are the teams thinking that bringing guys in in their mid-to-late 30's, trying to learn a new position, and not having played in 8 years is a good idea. If you either need those players or think they are good options, you probably aren't going to stick as a coach for very long.
rockaction
Footballguy
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
When comparing who "deserves" a roster spot between Hunt and Tebow I don't think the conversation is about their character, but about how much they help their teams on the football field. Hunt is maybe a top 10 back and Tebow is a publicity stunt that actively makes the roster worse by being on it.
If they hired Tebow on as a strength/character coach or some non-player position in the organization, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But the jags want us having this conversation and they don't sell jerseys for coaches. It is just disingenuous to believe this is anything more than a PR stunt that indulges Tebow's vanity.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Plus it's kind of disingenuous (at best) to try and claim no one had issues with Vick or Hunt ever playing again, let alone people being “silent” about it.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Say what you want about TT, but somebody is making bank on his merchandising sales. He was running #1 in jersey and t-shirt sales for men, women, and youth categories. Not bad for a guy that hasn’t played in 8 years. He’s at the point where it would end up costing people money if they cut him.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
There is no doubt in my mind this is largely a marketing thing. Maybe he will actually make the roster (long-shot) and they'll roll him out there for a few gadget plays this year but even that I would think would be likely mostly a marketing ploy. I doubt Meyer truly believes Tebow is going to help him win games.
But to that I say so what. The NFL is a business and marketability is a skill that does matter. It would be one thing if the nepotism claims were backed by actual nepotism, and Tebow's marketability were a result of him simply having a famous father or something. But Tebow's marketability is something he created himself, so this idea that he's just getting a free pass to an NFL roster is silly to me. He worked his butt off for 20 years to create chances like these. It's entirely self earned even if it's a result of something other than pure football ability.
Personally I don't have a problem with it. There are plenty of TEs that get a shot on the practice squad simply because they were born 6'6" with great genes, even if they've never played a down of football before. How is that any less of a free pass than Tebow getting a hail marry shot to make the team based off of 20 years of unrelenting hard work?
Why is no one upset over the roster spot that young players missed out on when the Jags gave a similar tryout spot to Jevon Kearse's cousin (Lance Kearse) who was a Spanish basketball player that had last played football at the age of 14?
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DJackson10
Footballguy
The NFL and ALL PRO SPORTS ARE A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT. SHouldn't matter how how good you are. If Kareem Hunt did this working for a company on Wall Street or a Fortune 500 company Investors were concerned about he'd be getting a pink slip, escorted out of the building and told don't bother ever coming back or you'll be arrested for trespassing.
I had a vendor fired from his for a simple DUI and basically lost any opportunities for that kind of work ever again. I'm pointing out how amazing it is that people get upset when these guys aren't punished but then have issue with them taking rosters spots. Meanwhile we're complaining about other individual or may or may not have a roster spot and freaking out about Tebow. If only more fans put that kind of effort into scumbags like Kareem Hunt and maybe we wouldn't have to discuss why players aren't on teams and teams wouldn't hire these sort of players. It's hypocritical IMHO for fans to be ok with Hunt/Ray Lewis, Mike Vick taking up roster spots but Tim Tebow signs on with JAX and people lose their sh** about him taking a roster spot from some guy who probably never had a chance anyway of making an NFL.
Its no different then people being ok with a coworker who sexually harasses females in the work place getting promoted to a top position in your company but Johnny Z from Accounting who may not always be great gets an opportunity at a new position and everyone at the office has a problem with it but not the guy being a piece of garbage to your female coworkers. It's hypocrisy. What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander.
rockaction
Footballguy
This sort of ends the thread. My opinion is that the problem with Tebow, really, is a sociopolitical one. People, especially those in the media, do not like the full throttle evangelicalism that Tebow spreads every chance he gets and that his fans seem to adore. People are cynical about his faith and following, they somewhat mock him for having had been a virgin so late in life, etc. I have no bones to pick with either side. Cast me in with the doubters of religion most nights. But I can say that there is a distinct colored coverage that is brought to bear on Tebow, and most of it is negative, and is honestly for that reason. There's just no dancing around it: It's about how his religion fits within our increasingly secular society, especially among the scribes.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Mia cared enough about their DB's wife talking smack on the team that he got released. Baltimore was about to sign CK when they found the GFs tweets. Asked Kaepernick to speak out against them and didn't so they decided to not sign him. Obviously these teams cared enough about their significants others tweets. MLS just released a player last year after the wife tweeted derogatory tweets about the BLM movement. Obviously these leagues teams/clubs care enough
Irrelevant? I've actually talked to people closer to this situation saying the GF is pulling all the strings here. The whole Starter thing was a ploy to act like he still wanted to play. It's makes for good TV and a good argument for their case that the league is blackmailing him. Why didn't he jump at a chance to play in the XFL and rehab his playing image? Instead he asked for 20M a year? If it wasn't for the kneeling too he would've been released by SF but they knew releasing him after this would be a total #### storm they didn't want to get into.
I'm arguing that according to numerious reports Kaepernick seemed disinterested in getting a better work ethic. Jay Glazer reported CK was showing up late to team meetings and practices, not studying the playbook or film and there were reports of him with poor practice ethic. Why would a team sign a player like that who only apparently wants to start? Maybe if the dude was willing to work and take a contract with added bonuses if he ended up becoming the starter he'd have been in the league and showed a better attitude towards getting better.
I'm saying there's a lot of people. There were poster in this very thread who said they'd take Kareem Hunt on their fantasy team if he got cut during what he did or saying yeah they were more worried about X player missing games.
Fewer then 2% of those NCAA athletes ever reach the pro level. I'm not great with the math here but with 90 roster spots (I believe) amongst 32 teams is 2,880 roster spots. Most of those 16K aren't getting a chance no matter what.
DJackson10
Footballguy
That was because most guys didn't want to get called for not "sticking up for him" or not being good teammates. I work a football camp Yearly with former Player from the Philly area who grew up near me and get to meet a ton of former and current players. I've met Derrick Brooks, Jon Grudden, Vinny Testeverdi, etc. Some of the local Philly players in the NFL even come by to help.
This isn't gonna be a "I know this or that person and this is how it is" type post. But What I'm doing is sharing info I had access and privy too over the last few yrs many probably wouldn't know about. Maybe you take it and form a different opinion or maybe you don't. This also isn't saying the info I got is fact and anything else isn't either. I know Jenkins former position coach on the team as well as some other people close to the team. I've also been lucky to become friends with a girl at college who's brother went to the NFL is a local near me and asked me to help his camp so I've gotten the privilege to talk and converse with numerous people from the league. Sharing what I've learned from people while also maybe helping correct some stereotypes or false info how the league works/thinks on certain situations. When I post about these things I'm giving you an NFL perspective of why this is. If someone already has a certain agenda or opinion strong one on a subject it probably won't help much.
You get a lot of good "off the record" commentary from these guys at these camps. Some guys more friendly than others or willing to share more then you expected. Derrick Brooks he was really professional. Would give you some cool inside story about a teammate or say to you "yeah remember this guy? I played with him and despite his on field personality of being a crazy man that boy was shy as a MFer off the field" and stuff like that. Other like Vinny T nothing was off limits. "So X player on the Jets who was my teammate was a CVS pharmacy in his locker room. He was the guy who handed PED's and PERCs etc out like candy to other players." "X Coach of mine on this team had a huge drinking problem. His water bottle wasn't filled with water at Practice it was vodka. We all knew about it but dam he could coach." "So and so on this team slept with this teammates wife multiple times. That's why X player was actually traded from the team. It wasn't because of a contract dispute but because they had to get him out of there before the other guy murdered him." So on and so fourth. Grudden and I mostly talked about his Eagles time and first Raiders Stint. Even have met Mike Mayock at the camp along with his daughter who's my age. I like the camp because we get to teach kids about teamwork and how being on a team can help you in your adult life even when not playing sports. The Kids have fun and get to meet some real pros and coaches. The bonus for me is just at the end of these things talking to the players/coaches and shooting the Breeze. The guy I help and I would go grab a drink and a few guys would join us after that.
A lot of people off the record called CK a fake and fraud. Were upset with Colin's behavior at the players union and Coalition and going after Malcom Jenkins and other well respected players. Some said they lost a lot of respect for the guy. "Eric Reid? We all knew that guy was always a self absorbing jackass. We weren't surprised by him but Colin that was a shock." Others said players didn't like how the York Family babied him and they thought Aldon Smith got a raw deal as the Yorks were looking for a reason to cut him after he got into the altercation with Colin in camp. It was always about protecting Colin and putting pro Colin Players around him despite concerns from Veteran players like Navarro Bowman, Frank Gore and others about doing that. Harbaugh and other players were frustrated by the preferential treatment. Alex York (Or something Alex) I believe the C was pretty vocal on some of this after leaving SF. Many players weren't shocked how media who never covered the league took it and ran with it for their ratings and virtue signaling on both sides. A lot of them hated trump and that turned into some political stuff which was cool to hear different opinions. I heard a lot of "If I could pay higher taxes I would" or "I hope maybe someday I can get into some sort of politics and make a good change in my community." Colin might have been a gym rat at the start but once he got his contract his attitude on things changed for the worse. Felt like he didn't have the practice, showed up late, first one to league, not studing the playbook etc.
So you are probably wondering why players didn't speak up or calling them cowards for talking behind his back? Simple reasons. Many players liked CK opening the doors to a subject like Social Justice but many felt Colin was going about it the wrong way in terms of how he spoke to certain people, treated people etc. Many did not trust his GF who is a known locker room rat who to put it lightly has seen more then her fair share of pro athletes nude, most porn stars would be jealous. Either way they figured speaking out against Colin would look like the players were divided which the NFL would've used against them in their talks. Many felt Colin was not helping their stance especially later on. Many players who knew Colin personally or played with him went to their organizations telling their bosses don't sign him. That part is unconfirmed by I've heard it from several people.
I also have a neighbor who use to be a Photographer out in SF and was one of the 49ers team photographer in the 90s when Jerry Rice and Steve Young were running the WCO. He's given me a ton of great memorabilia he had and some of it I gave to my Brother who was a huge Steve Young fan. My neighbor still has contacts out there and many have given the same sentiments as above. Now you can Call Colin's teammates frauds or whatever but I think in the end how these players went about the Social Justice Movement was better than where CK was taking it. Many felt CK threw a temper tantrum when he didn't get his way, when the spotlight was off of him finally and on the coalition he took his ball and went home and made up these outrageous claims. the players felt having a President rep them who was an active player would help them better and show the league how serious they were on this. CK also didn't agree with most of what the players union wanted and didn't want to compromise (something he wouldn't do with his playing career either).
Trust me there's more to a lot of this whole thing for him then you or me even know about. Maybe eventually we'll get everything, maybe not. However for anyone to sit here and pretend that it's Black and White this is what happened and this is why they or them or right is very disingenuous to the entire situation.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
it’s a flat out lie to claim that no one had an issue with what Vick or Hunt did - and even worse to say people were “silent about it” - even if it had an ounce of relevance in this topic. If you can’t see how disingenuous you’re being, there’s no need to even have a conversation.
And no one is losing their #### about Tebow taking a roster spot - it’s just a discussion, and an alternative way to look at this circus - in the grand scheme of things it’s meaningless.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t agree with this, but it’s not worth conflict so imma just let it go.
Kaep was widely regarded as a great teammate & a gym rat the entire time he was here.
Maybe you’ve heard different - ok, we have different info.
As for Tim Tebow, this reeks of a publicity stunt/Jersey seller. Because regardless of what Tebow is or isn’t as a football player, he has a sizable following who see him as a symbol of something.
Seems a bit exploitative, but like I said before, maybe he’s just that passionate about playing football.
someone’s making $ off this though.
TripItUp
Footballguy
Maybe Tebow is good at football and good for the culture that they are trying to build.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You completely lost me at the 1st inaccurate supposition.
We know for certain that Tim Tebow is not good at football, so suggesting that "maybe he" is would be completely unrealistic.
Tim Tebow was bad at football 9 years ago, and I don't see how at 33 (he'll be 34 on the 14th of Aug) and playing a position he's never played before, he will be much better at football than he was at 24.
He looks like he's in good shape, to be fair. But I can't imagine the Jags couldn't find a better candidate for TE.
I can easily imagine that the Jags want to shamelessly sell jerseys.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
'A chance' to make the Jags roster =/= good at football.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
To be fair, it's a step up from the CFL, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm also allowing for the possibility Tebow makes the team for reasons other than his on-field play.To be fair, it's a step up from the CFL, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
I wouldn't say that. He was obviously good at football. He was not good at QBing but he could absolutely execute a zone-read. His accuracy and decision making were not NFL caliber which, obviously, limited what he could do.
ultimately it doesn't matter. Picking nits here. He is only getting a shot to milk his fans for a few more jerseys. Should have done it years ago.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Meh. It's been 9 years. He flopped in the NFL 9 years ago. Washed out. Didn't get another chance. I'm not of the opinion that he's become better for the absence.
100% the correct answer.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
If I were a betting man, I would bet against it. But ya never know. Teams have kept scrubbier scrubs than Tebow rostered, and maybe it's cheaper than an AC position. Plus they'd sell helllllllla jerseys.
Now, if literally anyone gets hurt & they need the spot, I could see them dropping him like a hot potato.
But given the coach & situation, I could see them putting him on the field here & there. See how jerseys sell. Tebow Time is very marketable. And yes, I am cynical enough about the nature of the NFL that I wouldn't be shocked by this in the slightest.
Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
I've been saying from the beginning I don't think he makes the final roster. Cool story, former college coach, dude bulked up and finally wants to give this TE thing a shot, but I just don't see it happening.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
I'll lay 3 to 1 odds he makes the final roster. ALL the messaging indicates this to be a foregone conclusion.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Never mind. Didn't know we had 2 Tebow threads going.
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