Football analyst love for Vick (1 Viewer)

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

hanus

 

[Ghost Rider]

They were fawning over his performance because it was the greatest performance by a QB most people have ever or will ever see.

Yeah, if they just started watching football this year. I can name several handfuls of more impressive QB performances without even giving it much thought, many of which were in the playoffs against great teams and/or defenses, as opposed to Vick tearing up the worst defense in the NFL in a game in mid-November.

And I am not even sure it was the best performance of the week! Brady dissecting that vaunted Steelers defense was arguably as impressive, even moreso, than what Vick did to the 32-ranked defense in the NFL.

Are you serious? I don't care how badly ranked Washington's defense is, to say that Vick's performance was not one of the greatest single games by a QB is straight hate for the guy. Brady's game was more impressive than Vick's? Vick blew Brady's stats out in the first 15 minutes of the game. Please point to the games that a QB put up the ridiculously gaudy numbers that Vick did. Name just five, since you have handfuls of them.

So, great numbers and stats are all that matter? Matt Cassel was one of the best quarterbacks this past week with his 400+ yards and 4 touchdowns? I mean, never mind that all of it came in a blowout when they were down 35-0, right? Stats and numbers are all that matter, right? Sorry, but as awesome as Vick looked Monday night, what Brady did to the Steelers defense Sunday night impressed me more. Beating up on a terrible defense is not as impressive as beating up on a great one.

And I said there were games of more impressive QB performances, but nice job trying to change the standard. Off the top of my head, QB performances that were better:

-Young vs the Chargers in Super Bowl 29

-Montana vs the Broncos in Super Bowl 24

-Manning vs the Jets in the AFC title game last year

-Warner vs the Packers last year in the playoffs

-Warner vs the Eagles two years ago in the NFC title game

Shall I go on?

And before you retort with Vick having slightly better numbers than some of those performances (because of his rushing yardage and TDs), keep in mind that I value a great performance in the playoffs far more than one in a regular season game. Vick's performance is definitely one of the best regular season ones in recent memory, but overall, not so much. There are too many great playoff performances that rate higher simply because they came on a grander scale and in a more pressure-filled situation.

And keep in mind that I am not a Vick "hater" or anything like that. I almost always stay out of the threads on the dog stuff or his character or whatever. I have no interest in debating that stuff.

 

[footballnerd]

Forget the QB comparison, I would have to say the man just had the single greatest performance by a football player, period.

Who else put up the solid numbers for two positions in one game?

 

[rock753]

All the hate is still insane

Ray Lewis is gushed over all the time and no one questions that.

 

[Jewell]

Forget the QB comparison, I would have to say the man just had the single greatest performance by a football player, period. Who else put up the solid numbers for two positions in one game?

Sammy Baugh."Baugh had his triple the next season, leading the league in passing, punting (45.9-yard average) and interceptions (11). His finest day was when he threw four touchdown passes and intercepted four passes in a 42-20 victory over Detroit."

 

[rock753]

Forget the QB comparison, I would have to say the man just had the single greatest performance by a football player, period. Who else put up the solid numbers for two positions in one game?

Sammy Baugh."Baugh had his triple the next season, leading the league in passing, punting (45.9-yard average) and interceptions (11). His finest day was when he threw four touchdown passes and intercepted four passes in a 42-20 victory over Detroit."

 

[Truman]

Forget the QB comparison, I would have to say the man just had the single greatest performance by a football player, period. Who else put up the solid numbers for two positions in one game?

Mike Vick threw for 250 and rushed for 100 v Denver in '04.

 

[bigunreal]

The wildly passionate love that virtually every announcer shows for Vick is nauseating. He was once the most overrated athlete in the history of all sports, without any real competition in sight. Now, he has strung together a handful of uncharacteristically very good games, against some very bad defenses. The talk of him being MVP is typically absurd, jock sniffing ESPN mantra. He's missed a bunch of games (most of which featured the team's other QB looking pretty well himself) and he's the league MVP? Ridiculous. Everything this guy does is drooled over by the "journalists" who cover the sport; every pass, ones that all NFL QBs are expected to complete, is considered amazing and incredible when Vick "flicks his wrist" with that "cannon," "rocket," or whatever new over the top adjective they can come up with to describe it.

For the record, many QBs have put up tremendous combined rushing/passing numbers. Steve Young single handedly won me many games with those kinds of efforts. The unfairly maligned Cade McNown, for instance, passed for something like 290 yards and ran for 90 in one of his very first NFL starts. No one blinked. I can only imagine what would have been said if Vick had done anything remotely like that in one of his first starts. Tyler Thigpen put on numerous athletic displays a few years back for the Chiefs. In one game, I believe he passed for 300 yards, ran for a TD and caught a long TD pass! Again, those same lame jock sniffers ignored this incredible feat. If Vick ever caught a long TD pass, I think there would be a special news bulletin on every television network. Maybe Congress would declare a national holiday.

Even without his sordid off the field antics, Vick has always been, and obviously still is, overhyped beyond belief.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

The wildly passionate love that virtually every announcer shows for Vick is nauseating. He was once the most overrated athlete in the history of all sports, without any real competition in sight. Now, he has strung together a handful of uncharacteristically very good games, against some very bad defenses.

Half the QBs in the league have played 4 games against equally bad defenses. None of them averaged 2.5 TDs and 0 turnovers.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

For the record, many QBs have put up tremendous combined rushing/passing numbers. Steve Young single handedly won me many games with those kinds of efforts. The unfairly maligned Cade McNown, for instance, passed for something like 290 yards and ran for 90 in one of his very first NFL starts. No one blinked. I can only imagine what would have been said if Vick had done anything remotely like that in one of his first starts. Tyler Thigpen put on numerous athletic displays a few years back for the Chiefs. In one game, I believe he passed for 300 yards, ran for a TD and caught a long TD pass! Again, those same lame jock sniffers ignored this incredible feat. If Vick ever caught a long TD pass, I think there would be a special news bulletin on every television network. Maybe Congress would declare a national holiday.

Even without his sordid off the field antics, Vick has always been, and obviously still is, overhyped beyond belief.

Cade McNown and Tyler Thigpen both made big splashes when they came onto the fantasy scene. The difference is that they could not sustain the initial success and they quickly faded away.You describe Vick's feats as "uncharacteristic", when in fact they are quite characteristic for him. He's been doing exactly the same thing since 2002.

Vick may be overhyped, but what else would expect for a quarterback who just scored 6 TDs in one game?

 

[bigunreal]

Vick wrote the book on overrated. The guy has never had a THREE thousand yard passing season. That's almost incomprehensible, given the way he's been dishonestly portrayed by the ESPN-type jock sniffers. And he had a single TWENTY TD season. Again, unfathomable, given the numbers that other QBs routinely put up year after year. However, if he keeps this up and actually puts up average passing numbers this year, I fully expect him to be referred to thereafter as "future hall of famer" Michael Vick.

I can't wait for him to play a good defense.

 

[Masked Vigilante]

They were fawning over his performance because it was the greatest performance by a QB most people have ever or will ever see.

Yeah, if they just started watching football this year. I can name several handfuls of more impressive QB performances without even giving it much thought, many of which were in the playoffs against great teams and/or defenses, as opposed to Vick tearing up the worst defense in the NFL in a game in mid-November. And I am not even sure it was the best performance of the week! Brady dissecting that vaunted Steelers defense was arguably as impressive, even moreso, than what Vick did to the 32-ranked defense in the NFL.

Are you serious? I don't care how badly ranked Washington's defense is, to say that Vick's performance was not one of the greatest single games by a QB is straight hate for the guy. Brady's game was more impressive than Vick's? Vick blew Brady's stats out in the first 15 minutes of the game. Please point to the games that a QB put up the ridiculously gaudy numbers that Vick did. Name just five, since you have handfuls of them.

Brady had a great game but Vick's performance was something that you put in the memory bank and remember ten years from now. The last time I remember being so wowed by a player was Brady's 6 TD game against the Dolphins in 07.

 

[Sabertooth]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

 

[unckeyherb]

So, great numbers and stats are all that matter? Matt Cassel was one of the best quarterbacks this past week with his 400+ yards and 4 touchdowns? I mean, never mind that all of it came in a blowout when they were down 35-0, right? Stats and numbers are all that matter, right?

No they aren't all that matter. He passed the eyeball test as well, one player absolutely dominating in all aspects of the offense against another professional team. He destroyed the numbers you are referencing above in about a half and oh yeah his team WON. Had they decided to keep their foot on the gas and go for more garbage time stats they easily could have scored two or more TDs which would have led to the highest scoring single game in the history of the league.

And I said there were games of more impressive QB performances, but nice job trying to change the standard.

I'm not changing any standard. I said that it was one of the most dominating performances ever by a QB. You still haven't pointed to any reason to believe the contrary.

Off the top of my head, QB performances that were better:

-Young vs the Chargers in Super Bowl 29

-Montana vs the Broncos in Super Bowl 24

-Manning vs the Jets in the AFC title game last year

-Warner vs the Packers last year in the playoffs

-Warner vs the Eagles two years ago in the NFC title game

Shall I go on?

Can you? We can agree to disagree with the Warner games, but that is just quibbling. Beyond those you named three of the best games by arguably three of the best QB's to ever play the game. So, okay, you kind of just proved my point if you are turning to those as examples of better games. Regardless, I still don't believe those games showcased such an unbelievable talent laying waste to a team, mainly because no one else could do what Vick is doing right now. Honestly, he looked like a professional athelete playing against middle schoolers.

And before you retort with Vick having slightly better numbers than some of those performances (because of his rushing yardage and TDs), keep in mind that I value a great performance in the playoffs far more than one in a regular season game. Vick's performance is definitely one of the best regular season ones in recent memory, but overall, not so much. There are too many great playoff performances that rate higher simply because they came on a grander scale and in a more pressure-filled situation.

Slightly better numbers? The guys was directly responsible for over 400 yards of offense and 42 points? Look, if you want to put a bunch of qualifiers attached to this game fine, I think you're nuts. I personally believe we witnessed one of the greatest single games by a football player and I know we here in philly will be discussing it 20 years from now. FWIW, Rod Woodson said last night on NFL network that, "Mike Vick is the most dangerous QB in NFL history. He’s probably not the ‘best’ quarterback, but I’m talking about the most dangerous." He said this while discussing this Monday night game.

 

[chinawildman]

Look I doubt anyone is ready to annoint Vick as one of the greatest of all time... but if you think he's getting "lucky" and just so happened to string together a few good games against poor defenses, you need to take the blinders off.

I was one of the biggest anti-Vick proponents on this board back during the falcons days. He was basically a poor man's randall cunningham during those days. But the progression he's made as a passer is startling and so blatantly obvious. And the people that recognized this during that first game against Green Bay and made the decision to pick him up based on that potential have struck it rich.

There is much anti-Vick sentiment and justifiably so.... but don't hold his on field performance against him because it makes you look silly. Even if you throw out the game at Washington, he has avg'd a whole TD more a game than the next highest QB (rivers) and in my league already has more pts than Brady, Brees, and will likely surpass Rodgers and Manning in 2 weeks, if not this weekend.

 

[jackdubl]

Look I doubt anyone is ready to annoint Vick as one of the greatest of all time... but if you think he's getting "lucky" and just so happened to string together a few good games against poor defenses, you need to take the blinders off.

I was one of the biggest anti-Vick proponents on this board back during the falcons days. He was basically a poor man's randall cunningham during those days. But the progression he's made as a passer is startling and so blatantly obvious. And the people that recognized this during that first game against Green Bay and made the decision to pick him up based on that potential have struck it rich.

There is much anti-Vick sentiment and justifiably so.... but don't hold his on field performance against him because it makes you look silly. Even if you throw out the game at Washington, he has avg'd a whole TD more a game than the next highest QB (rivers) and in my league already has more pts than Brady, Brees, and will likely surpass Rodgers and Manning in 2 weeks, if not this weekend.

Vick is the number one fantasy QB on a per game basis. Can't argue with that. His skillset seems to be a perfect fit with Philly's pass-first offense. I think the love is justified.

 

[unckeyherb]

Look I doubt anyone is ready to annoint Vick as one of the greatest of all time... but if you think he's getting "lucky" and just so happened to string together a few good games against poor defenses, you need to take the blinders off.

I was one of the biggest anti-Vick proponents on this board back during the falcons days. He was basically a poor man's randall cunningham during those days. But the progression he's made as a passer is startling and so blatantly obvious. And the people that recognized this during that first game against Green Bay and made the decision to pick him up based on that potential have struck it rich.

There is much anti-Vick sentiment and justifiably so.... but don't hold his on field performance against him because it makes you look silly. Even if you throw out the game at Washington, he has avg'd a whole TD more a game than the next highest QB (rivers) and in my league already has more pts than Brady, Brees, and will likely surpass Rodgers and Manning in 2 weeks, if not this weekend.

Vick is the number one fantasy QB on a per game basis. Can't argue with that. His skillset seems to be a perfect fit with Philly's pass-first offense. I think the love is justified.

To put it another way, there have been nine weeks of football (10 minus the bye). Vick has played in half of those games: about 4.5. He is still ranked as the 10th QB for the entire season.

 

[Ghost Rider]

unckeyherb,

-I agree that the Eagles probably could have scored 70 points in that game had they kept going full-force. But so could a lot of other teams in many other games in NFL history, but teams almost always take their foot off the gas in huge blowouts, the 2007 Patriots notwithstanding. Heck, Kyle freaking Orton could have put up better numbers than Vick just this past week had the Broncos kept it up, but they also let up.

-Yes, Vick definitely passed the eyeball test. He look awesome. After the 2nd touchdown, I knew the game was over already, and it was just a matter of how many points they scored and how many they won be. On the one hand, that lends credence it being a dominant performance, but on the other hand, I tend to value performances of similar value a bit more when they either come in playoff games and/or they come in close games. That is why I'd take Warner's performance last year in the playoffs over Vick's on Monday. In what was a close game most of the way, Warner ripped the Packers 2nd-ranked defense to absolute shreds, completing 88% of his passes, throwing 379 yards, 5 TD passes and 0 INTs. Like it or not, when ranking it on an all-time great level, Vick doing what he did against what is the worst defense in the league statistically does take a tad of the luster off. Still a truly dominant and great performance (for anyone who thinks I am trying to say he is not that great or whatever), but I don't think it is a given that it was one of the best performances ever.

-As for me having to resort to pointing out performances by three of the greatest ever, those were some of the first three that came to mind, but I am sure I could do a small amount of digging and find many more that were as good or better. Like I said, I value playoff performances a bit more when it comes to QB play. If two QBs put up similar numbers, looked equally good, their teams won by similar margins, and they played comparable defenses, but one did it in the playoffs and the other did it in a regular season game, who are you gonna say had a better all-time great performance? Be honest.

 

[Sabertooth]

To put it another way, there have been nine weeks of football (10 minus the bye). Vick has played in half of those games: about 4.5. He is still ranked as the 10th QB for the entire season.

This being the rub on him. His style invites injury.

 

[Sabertooth]

unckeyherb,-I agree that the Eagles probably could have scored 70 points in that game had they kept going full-force. But so could a lot of other teams in many other games in NFL history, but teams almost always take their foot off the gas in huge blowouts, the 2007 Patriots notwithstanding. Heck, Kyle freaking Orton could have put up better numbers than Vick just this past week had the Broncos kept it up, but they also let up. -Yes, Vick definitely passed the eyeball test. He look awesome. After the 2nd touchdown, I knew the game was over already, and it was just a matter of how many points they scored and how many they won be. On the one hand, that lends credence it being a dominant performance, but on the other hand, I tend to value performances of similar value a bit more when they either come in playoff games and/or they come in close games. That is why I'd take Warner's performance last year in the playoffs over Vick's on Monday. In what was a close game most of the way, Warner ripped the Packers 2nd-ranked defense to absolute shreds, completing 88% of his passes, throwing 379 yards, 5 TD passes and 0 INTs. Like it or not, when ranking it on an all-time great level, Vick doing what he did against what is the worst defense in the league statistically does take a tad of the luster off. Still a truly dominant and great performance (for anyone who thinks I am trying to say he is not that great or whatever), but I don't think it is a given that it was one of the best performances ever. -As for me having to resort to pointing out performances by three of the greatest ever, those were some of the first three that came to mind, but I am sure I could do a small amount of digging and find many more that were as good or better. Like I said, I value playoff performances a bit more when it comes to QB play. If two QBs put up similar numbers, looked equally good, their teams won by similar margins, and they played comparable defenses, but one did it in the playoffs and the other did it in a regular season game, who are you gonna say had a better all-time great performance? Be honest.

Actually Rodgers' performance in that game was almost as impressive. He accounted for 435 yards and 5 touchdowns.

 

[Ghost Rider]

True, but he did have two critical turnovers, the second of which ended the game, so that eliminates it from the all-time great performance conversation.

 

[DocHolliday]

Vick had a tremendous game Monday night. That first quarter made history. However, I am so sick of hearing about Vick on every sports program. Fortunately, the NFL weekend is upon us and their will be a new "hot" story to be worn out. The media is annoying.

 

[imagroid]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

The MVP talk is not premature at all. Assuming he finishes the season out, and that's an assumption we need to make for all candidates, he is worthy based on A)being a QB on a playoff team and B) gaudy stats.

 

[plyka]

Does anybody think the love for Vick has gone a little too far? I don't think many of these football analysts understand the difference between real life and football.In football, Vick has made an amazing comeback for not playing for 2+ seasons and had an amazing night tonight.In real life, Vick is a terrible human being who has admitted to and was convicted on hanus acts of brtual torture to animals and running the dog fighting business all for entertainment.So how does somebody like Jon Gruden go on MNF and rant all night about how amazing it is that Vick has overcome this "personal tragedy" to become GREAT. He said he still gets choked up when thinking about it and that we can all learn from this as if Mike Vick can overcome this then we all need to take a look at ourselves. This is one just one example.How can this be? That is way beyond the line of sanity. To think that scoring many touchdowns turns this guy from a criminal into a savior and role model?????I do believe in second chances.I do believe that Vick served his time.I do believe that Vick deserves to be playing in the NFL again.However, I don't believe Vick deserves to be praised on national television as a great human being and a VICTIM that has overcome being dealt a bad hand. He made his damn bed and will have to live with the consequences regardless of how many fantasy points he scores. These analysts are disgusting. Gruden is a joke.*Edit for Gruden (not Jaws)

People like you are so confusing to me. Unless of course you're a strict vegatarian, not to mention a lot of other things (like refuse to purchase wallets made out of cow hide, etc), i don't see much of a difference between you and Vick or the average person and Vick.Do you know how they kill cattle? They may have this big hammer thingy which bashes them in their forehead a few times or they stick an electric rode up their ### and electricute them. And they do this to provide you with your hamburgers and steak. How is what Vick did worse than sticking an electric rode up a cows ### and electircuting them? The way they treat chicken is even worse. How about people that go fishing? They basically drag this animal out of his home by snaring it in the mouth or lip with a massive hook. How would you like it if someone hooked you in the mouth or lip and literally pulled you out of your home in this manner? The point is not that you shouldn't eat meat or fish. I eat hamburgers all the time and enjoy them. But i'm under to delusions about what that entails. This means that i am responsible for killing cattle in horrible ways. I don't see the logical difference between killing cattle in inhumane ways and fighting dogs. In both respects, it is animals getting brutally hurt, with the exception that in dog fighting, the dogs actually want to fight while in killing cattle, i'm sure they could run away if they could. The overall point? Animals don't have the same value as humans. A "crime" against an animal doesn't make any logical sense, since every meat eater commits these crimes on a daily basis as explained above. It is very gruesome but it is reality. The only real difference between a dog and a cow is emotional.

 

[Amused to Death]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

The MVP talk is not premature at all. Assuming he finishes the season out, and that's an assumption we need to make for all candidates, he is worthy based on A)being a QB on a playoff team and B) gaudy stats.

He has definitely entered the conversation. Currently #3 (behind Brady & Rivers) in Mike Sando's MVP watch:The strongest argument against Michael Vick as a legitimate MVP candidate -- that he hasn't played enough this season -- should start working in his favor.

The man has more rushing touchdowns, four, than workhorse backs Steven Jackson, Frank Gore, Maurice Jones-Drew, Thomas Jones or Matt Forte.

Every other player in the league with more than two TD passes has also thrown an interception. Every other player with more than six TD passes has at least three picks. Vick has 11 TD passes, no interceptions and the highest passer rating in the league.

Have you seen Vick throw the football? I'm not sure NASA could engineer a device capable of producing tighter spirals on intermediate and deep passes.

Have you seen Vick run the football? Vick has 40 fewer rushing yards than Marshawn Lynch. He has run for more first downs than Ricky Williams, Shonn Greene or LeGarrette Blount. He has five runs of at least 20 yards, same as Adrian Peterson and more than Jackson, Jones-Drew or Peyton Hillis.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/...os-mvp-watch-27

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

Does anybody think the love for Vick has gone a little too far?

I don't think many of these football analysts understand the difference between real life and football.

In football, Vick has made an amazing comeback for not playing for 2+ seasons and had an amazing night tonight.

In real life, Vick is a terrible human being who has admitted to and was convicted on hanus acts of brtual torture to animals and running the dog fighting business all for entertainment.

So how does somebody like Jon Gruden go on MNF and rant all night about how amazing it is that Vick has overcome this "personal tragedy" to become GREAT. He said he still gets choked up when thinking about it and that we can all learn from this as if Mike Vick can overcome this then we all need to take a look at ourselves. This is one just one example.

How can this be? That is way beyond the line of sanity. To think that scoring many touchdowns turns this guy from a criminal into a savior and role model?????

I do believe in second chances.

I do believe that Vick served his time.

I do believe that Vick deserves to be playing in the NFL again.

However, I don't believe Vick deserves to be praised on national television as a great human being and a VICTIM that has overcome being dealt a bad hand. He made his damn bed and will have to live with the consequences regardless of how many fantasy points he scores. These analysts are disgusting. Gruden is a joke.

*Edit for Gruden (not Jaws)

Mike Vick has done some terrible things. I don't know if he is a terrible human being. Neither do you. People do change.

Vick is an electrifying football player. He is at this time a far better quarterback than he has ever been, and is being praised accordingly. I haven't heard any analysts praising him for being a wonderful human being.

Being arrested, convicted, and jailed is a personal tragedy. The fact that he brought this upon himself makes it no less tragic.

 

[Sabertooth]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

The MVP talk is not premature at all. Assuming he finishes the season out, and that's an assumption we need to make for all candidates, he is worthy based on A)being a QB on a playoff team and B) gaudy stats.

He's tied for 20th in the NFL in touchdown passes. He's 27th in passing yardage. Those are the measuring sticks of a quarterback. Also wins.

 

[Jewell]

Being arrested, convicted, and jailed is a personal tragedy. The fact that he brought this upon himself makes it no less tragic.

But in many people eyes Vick's culpability does make his fall less tragic. That's why people get so moved by stories of people who spent decades in prison after being wrongfully convicted. People feel worse for those who didn't have a direct hand in their own demise.How about somebody like Nelson Mandela who spent 27 years in prison for doing little more than standing up for his oppressed people? Now that's a tragedy.

Vick's situation may also be a tragedy, but the fact that he brought it upon himself does make it less tragic to a lot of people.

 

[imagroid]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

The MVP talk is not premature at all. Assuming he finishes the season out, and that's an assumption we need to make for all candidates, he is worthy based on A)being a QB on a playoff team and B) gaudy stats.

He's tied for 20th in the NFL in touchdown passes. He's 27th in passing yardage. Those are the measuring sticks of a quarterback. Also wins.

Did you even read my post? I know it helps your argument, but the rushing stats count.

 

[imagroid]

Being arrested, convicted, and jailed is a personal tragedy. The fact that he brought this upon himself makes it no less tragic.

I know somewhere wrapped in that sentence is definition-of-the-word nittery, but people just don't think like this. 12 year old kid dies of cancer = tragic. Guy robbing a bank is shot and killed = not so tragic. Society seems to sympathize more with people who had no control over their own tragic events. Gruden just used the wrong word imo.-coming from someone who has been in Vick's corner the day he stepped out of prison.

 

[Truman]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

The MVP talk is not premature at all. Assuming he finishes the season out, and that's an assumption we need to make for all candidates, he is worthy based on A)being a QB on a playoff team and B) gaudy stats.

He's tied for 20th in the NFL in touchdown passes. He's 27th in passing yardage. Those are the measuring sticks of a quarterback. Also wins.

How many of those 26 have thrown more INTs than Vick?

 

[Truman]

bump

 

[dhockster]

I can acknowledge he had a great game. He sure did. But the MVP and Greatest of All Time talk is way premature. Vick is a polarizing figure. By his own admission he squandered his talents early in his career. Now he's all grown up and people are seeing what might have been.

The MVP talk is not premature at all. Assuming he finishes the season out, and that's an assumption we need to make for all candidates, he is worthy based on A)being a QB on a playoff team and B) gaudy stats.

He's tied for 20th in the NFL in touchdown passes. He's 27th in passing yardage. Those are the measuring sticks of a quarterback. Also wins.

Where does he rank in passer rating?Where does he rank in rushing yards and TD's for a QB?Where does he rank in interceptions?Those are also measuring sticks of a Quarterback.