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Government Response To The Coronavirus (5 Viewers)

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I actually think having the economic discussion is worthwhile. The problem is Trump is the wrong person to do it. Because a) he's not ... sophisticated enough to understand all the inputs/sides, b) he has no self control, c) he doesn't understand the science, and d) he doesn't care about anyone else but himself so he can't properly weigh the factors.

 
So Trump wants to be open by Easter?  What has the federal government closed?  They have abdicated any responsibility over this crisis and have instead left it in the hands of state and local authorities, and yet he keeps talking.  This is not leadership.

 
jon_mx said:
Trump appointed the CDC director.  If the guy was screwing up this forum would be blaming Trump.  Seems you want it both ways.  
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Its almost like the buck stops with the President.

But, I have said a few times, we don't know where the system broke down.  Information flows up, decisions flow down.  Somewhere in that process we (the US) screwed up - certainly in January, but perhaps before January when the channels were disrupted by position eliminations. 

So, a good post-mortem would identify if information was not being delivered up the flow chart, or if leaders at various points, made poor decisions with the data.

Ultimately - Trump is the top of that flow chart - so - is he getting bad/filtered/incomplete data,  and/or is he making poor decisions with the data he gets?

 
timschochet said:
This is horrible. Absolutely horrible. 

Hey Trump, I don’t give a crap who is to blame for the lack of ventilators. I don’t care what Cuomo should have done. There’s not enough ventilators and people are going to die. Get them there! Use the defense act! What the hell are you waiting for??

This is infuriating. 
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Apparently Cuomo does since he’s blaming the CDC.  The whole world needs ventilators.  The US is ramping up production, but it’s not like Tesla and GM can flip a switch to start making ventilators.  The Defense Act won’t magically make ventilators appear.

 
Just Say No to the Coronavirus Coup

“Economic Liberties is deeply concerned that the legislation being contemplated by Mitch McConnell and Chuck Schumer will not address the economic and health crisis caused by the coronavirus,” said Economic Liberties Executive Director Sarah Miller. “It is a panicked and reckless legislative response to the criminal negligence of this administration.”

“The current approach represents a failure of leadership, with the House absent and Senate leaders secretly cutting a deal that will be presented to Americans as a fait accompli. None of this is necessary. The House should immediately begin debating a different set of measures,” added Miller. “The McConnell bill has $425 billion pot of money to be used at the discretion of Secretary Mnuchin, but this number is misleading,” said Miller.

“The money is intended to be leveraged by the Federal Reserve by as much as ten to one, meaning that it is in fact a $4 trillion slush fund to big business, which will fundamentally transform the American economy. It will likely bail out Boeing and the airlines with few meaningful strings attached and will repeat most of the mistakes made in the 2008-2010 bailouts.” “But this deal will likely be worse than that,” added Miller.

“In a genuine health crisis, money will not get out quickly enough to small businesses so that they can re-open their doors after this crisis, or to families so that they can maintain some measure of economic security. It will, however, encourage more corporate consolidation and reinforce the power of Wall Street speculators to control our corporations, our markets, our government, and our society.”

“We encourage all Americans on the Republican and Democratic sides of the aisle to immediately pass a series of simple bills to fund hospitals, provide cash to families, pause rent and mortgage obligations, and blunt layoffs,” said Miller.

“As the scandalous deficiencies of this legislation become obvious, Americans will be upset, and political leaders will be outraged. But now is the moment that matters, in which we can choose to craft a fair deal or rubber stamp a transfer of power to billionaires and big business.”

 
jonessed said:
Apparently Cuomo does since he’s blaming the CDC.  The whole world needs ventilators.  The US is ramping up production, but it’s not like Tesla and GM can flip a switch to start making ventilators.  The Defense Act won’t magically make ventilators appear.
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Problem is, the Feds knew in January this would get very bad. That's when they started dumping stocks while telling us everything will be fine.

We should have been ramping up in January.

 
jonessed said:
Apparently Cuomo does since he’s blaming the CDC.  The whole world needs ventilators.  The US is ramping up production, but it’s not like Tesla and GM can flip a switch to start making ventilators.  The Defense Act won’t magically make ventilators appear.
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Yup.  Quite the problem when you wait too long to act.  And will you, two weeks from now, one month from now, be telling everyone to relax over the dead bodies when we need them even more and Trump never so much as lifted a finger to use his authority to manufacture more?

 
jon_mx said:
The stat shows growth in testing.  The rate at which people are being infected could be declining, but because we are testing more that stat would show the opposite.  That is why looking at deaths is a far more meaningful stat although it lags infections by a couple weeks.  
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Some growth in testing yes...but we have known from the beginning about exponential growth.  So yeah...its still increasing or has been according to the actual doctors.  Im going to continue to listen to them over you.

 
@NYGovCuomo: "FEMA is sending us 400  ventilators....400 ventilators? I need 30,000 ventilators. You want a pat on the back for sending 400 ventilators? What are we going to do with 400 ventilators when we need 30,000 ventilators? You're missing the magnitude of the problem."

 
cobalt_27 said:
@NYGovCuomo: "FEMA is sending us 400  ventilators....400 ventilators? I need 30,000 ventilators. You want a pat on the back for sending 400 ventilators? What are we going to do with 400 ventilators when we need 30,000 ventilators? You're missing the magnitude of the problem."
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Either way doesn’t help but Pence said 4000 - is it 400?

 
Amused to Death said:
Problem is, the Feds knew in January this would get very bad. That's when they started dumping stocks while telling us everything will be fine.

We should have been ramping up in January.
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If I understand the concern from Trump supporters it’s that there’s too much focus on his bungling and mismanagement of this in the past.  That we have to look at the present and future.  
 

The problem is he and they are continuing to downplay this, unwilling to give it the gravity it deserves, so that even now basic things—like testing to assess the current problem or ventilators to save lives—are not considered important enough to act on at a federal level. 
 

Or, as Bill Gates eluded to, the message is:  Ignore the dead bodies in the corner, let’s all get back to work by Easter. 

 
jonessed said:
Apparently Cuomo does since he’s blaming the CDC.  The whole world needs ventilators.  The US is ramping up production, but it’s not like Tesla and GM can flip a switch to start making ventilators.  The Defense Act won’t magically make ventilators appear.
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There are 20,000 ventilators in the national emergency reserve.  They literally can appear if they were released...

 
cobalt_27 said:
Yup.  Quite the problem when you wait too long to act.  And will you, two weeks from now, one month from now, be telling everyone to relax over the dead bodies when we need them even more and Trump never so much as lifted a finger to use his authority to manufacture more?
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Maybe.  I can’t predict the future.

 
jon_mx said:
Trump’s Pick for CDC Director Is Experienced But Controversial

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/trumps-pick-for-cdc-director-is-experienced-but-controversial/556202/
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Nowhere in the article does it say he was appointed by Trump other than the headline saying his pick.  My article as well as the other link here show Azar named him...and that link is from the HHS website.  Seems official.

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2018/03/21/hhs-secretary-azar-name-robert-r-redfield-md-director-centers-disease-control-and-prevention.html

 
sho nuff said:
Nowhere in the article does it say he was appointed by Trump other than the headline saying his pick.  My article as well as the other link here show Azar named him...and that link is from the HHS website.  Seems official.

https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2018/03/21/hhs-secretary-azar-name-robert-r-redfield-md-director-centers-disease-control-and-prevention.html
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And I can point to six more sources which identify him as Trump pick.  Trump is at the top of the chain of command.  Announcing or naming is different.  

 
jon_mx said:
And I can point to six more sources which identify him as Trump pick.  Trump is at the top of the chain of command.  Announcing or naming is different.  
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Again, TRUMP himself has stated he does not know what is going on at the CDC.  He had no hand on any retraction or expansion or execution.

 
cobalt_27 said:
What's an acceptable number of dead bodies to you before you're willing to say Trump should have ordered more tests and ventilators? 

10,000? 

50,000? 

100,000?  
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I think he’s ordering as many as he can already. The first CDC test wasn’t accurate.  That put us behind.  Not sure how ordering more inaccurate tests was going to help anyone.

 
Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but I do say no more than 10 to 20 million killed, tops! Uh, depending on the breaks.

 
jonessed said:
I think he’s ordering as many as he can already. The first CDC test wasn’t accurate.  That put us behind.  Not sure how ordering more inaccurate tests was going to help anyone.
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That's actually factually inaccurate on both counts with respect to ordering as many tests and ventilators as he can. 

He had ready-made tests available to him.  In the millions. 

But, let's not dwell on the past.  You've acknowledged he hasn't used his authority to ramp up production.  How many dead bodies is worth it to you before willing to say he should have used his authority TODAY to get more tests and ventilators in circulation?  This isn't magic, he has the authority.  Is it 10k?  50k?  100k?

 
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cobalt_27 said:
That's actually factually inaccurate on both counts.  You've acknowledged he hasn't used his authority to ramp up production.  How many dead bodies is worth it to you before willing to say he should have used his authority to get more tests and ventilators in circulation?  This isn't magic, he has the authority. 
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Private companies have switched over production on their own.  I think he has limited ability to ramp up test and ventilator production right now.  Most of the production capacity isn’t in the US and try the labs are running at full tilt.

 
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Ilov80s said:
Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed, but I do say no more than 10 to 20 million killed, tops! Uh, depending on the breaks.
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jonessed said:
Private companies have switched over production on their own.  I think he has limited ability to ramp up test and ventilator production right now.  Most of the production capacity isn’t in the US and try the labs are running at full tilt.
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Nope.  He has the ability to direct more production.  He chose not to, but he has had the ability all along and declined.  There will be dead bodies as a result.  You seem ok with this but just a matter of the amount.  What number is acceptable to you before acknowledging he should have utilized his authority to get more life saving measures in place, both in terms of testing and active measures.

 
cobalt_27 said:
Nope.  He has the ability to direct more production.  He chose not to, but he has had the ability all along and declined.  There will be dead bodies as a result.  You seem ok with this but just a matter of the amount.  What number is acceptable to you before acknowledging he should have utilized his authority to get more life saving measures in place, both in terms of testing and active measures.
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More direct production of ventilators?  From which companies?

 
The Commish said:
This is the first specific date I've seen out of him.  In order to "move" something, it has to be established somewhere else first.
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Exactly. And for all the grief he gets, he's actually slow rolled this into a 30-day ordeal instead of a 15-day one in the process.

 
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