Has anyone spoke to their kids varsity sports coach? How did it go? (1 Viewer)

[JAA]

Im trying to figure out if I should speak my sons HS soccer coach. I do not want to be "that parent". Honestly I am planning on not saying anything. However, I am posting here to hear others experiences wondering if I can be convinced to change my mind.

My son (Chris) is a Senior in HS and a varsity soccer player. My son loves soccer and loves his HS coach. He starts left back. He is starting to hate playing on his HS team.

The best player (Messi) on the team and my son don't get along. I have no idea why, I'm not sure why matters but it is my understanding they are "not friends".

On the field during games Messi will yell at my son Chris and verbally chastise him during games when he makes a mistake. My sons mistakes will trigger Messi so much he basically becomes unhinged during the game. Coach will attempt to speak to Messi to calm him down as the game is going along.

Last game I was able to observe from watching behind the bench (like 20') and all of this came to a head. I was able to watch Messi become unmanageable by the coach. Chris makes a mistake (just like every other player 1000x during a game) and Messi starts yelling at Chris, example "Chris, I need you to use your left foot, like I really need you to do that. Jesus Christ!" while his body language becomes all tense and triggered.

Coach proceeds to take out Chris from the game. Messi completely calms down. Player who replaced Chris proceeds to give up 2 goals in bad fashion. Nothing said by Messi rest of the game.

This is the coaches show. This is a good experience for Chris as "Welcome to life and assholes". However, I feel his Senior year is being ruined by an ******* and poor team culture.

 

[tonysmiles]

I think the coach maybe with your prodding can bring the two young men together and mediate a talk between them and see what the issue is that is causing this divide and maybe they can work it out.

 

[General Malaise]

Other than telling my son's football coach that I appreciated all the good things he helped usher into my son's life (discipline, comradery, self-belief) no, nothing said to any coaches about anything else. Simply 'thank you'. I'm not sure I'd go beyond that as I think it's important for my kids to advocate for themselves, especially when they are 17/18.....my 2 cents.

 

[acarey50]

Has your son talked to the coach?

If he hasn't done that yet, you going to the coach will likely not be received well and would be a bad look for your son.

 

[gianmarco]

Should YOU say anything to the coach? No
Should Chris say anything to the coach? Absolutely

This is one of those times he should speak up for himself. He should ask to have a conversation with the coach and discuss the situation. He should understand it may not go well but that doesn't mean he should ignore the situation if it's bothering him that much.

 

[TLEF316]

Honestly.....this doesn't seem like a parent intervention sort of situation to me. Seems like a really good opportunity for your son to have the conversation with the coach himself. Good growing up moment, IMO.

I presume its late in the season at this point. Cant imagine the hormonal 17 year old that's losing his mind on your son is going to change his stripes in the next 3 weeks or so. If these guys are in the running for a championship or something, its probably the coach's responsibility to try and right the ship. If they're just playing out the string, its probably just a teachable moment for your son. You're gonna run into jerks throughout your life. Sometimes you just need to deal with it. (by "deal with it" I dont mean lay down and let it happen. I mean stand up for yourself and say your piece...all you can do)

Sorry its putting a damper on the last few weeks of his HS career. That sucks.

 

[ChiefD]

I think the 'ol "Shut the "F*** Up" to Messi from your son is in order here.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Just make sure you make an appointment with him (not after a game) so you don't catch him off guard. He will likely know what you want to discuss with him

 

[JAA]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

 

[ChiefD]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

To me, this is a man-to-man type of talk:

"Listen son. You are going to run into a-holes like this kid all of your life. You've done nothing wrong - HE is the issue. So you can handle this however you want. It's your call and I can't help you. But I'd give some thought to either talking to your coach about it or take it up with the kid directly. Or you just let it ride and have fun and when he throws his hissy fits just smile at him and think to yourself how stupid he looks."

 

[ChiefD]

Just make sure you make an appointment with him (not after a game) so you don't catch him off guard. He will likely know what you want to discuss with him

Great advice here.

 

[bigbottom]

I think the 'ol "Shut the "F*** Up" to Messi from your son is in order here.

Agree with this. At the beginning of my son’s high school soccer career, the coaching staff met with the freshman parents and said that they were always available to speak with parents about their child. But never about anything that happened on the field or during practice unless it was regarding an injury or health issues. If it had to do with playing time, coaching, other players, etc., parents were kindly invited to buzz off. The message was delivered loud and clear.

 

[bigbottom]

P.S. The situation sucks. I’m sorry your kid is having to deal with it.

 

[dgreen]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

To me, this is a man-to-man type of talk:

"Listen son. You are going to run into a-holes like this kid all of your life. You've done nothing wrong - HE is the issue. So you can handle this however you want. It's your call and I can't help you. But I'd give some thought to either talking to your coach about it or take it up with the kid directly. Or you just let it ride and have fun and when he throws his hissy fits just smile at him and think to yourself how stupid he looks."

Is it possible Chris has done something wrong?

 

[Manster]

Messi sounds like an ******* who gets a pass cuz he's a talented *******. Some coaches won't put their best players in their place so they become more emboldened over time. Hard to say how the coach will respond, but since he's done nothing so far, leads you to believe he wont do much.

 

[dino259]

Absolutely support and encourage your son to have that conversation with the coach. When having the conversation with your son try to ask him questions to get his viewpoint and get him to see that Messi is not being a good teammate.

After that then you can have the conversation with the coach. As said above this is a separate meeting and not after a game.

I feel like I should have had many more conversations with my son's coaches over the years. All I have ever wished for them is to be given an opportunity. It is not fun watching your kids play and hoping they don't screw up when if feels like they don't get the same opportunities to make mistakes as other players.

 

[ChiefD]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

To me, this is a man-to-man type of talk:

"Listen son. You are going to run into a-holes like this kid all of your life. You've done nothing wrong - HE is the issue. So you can handle this however you want. It's your call and I can't help you. But I'd give some thought to either talking to your coach about it or take it up with the kid directly. Or you just let it ride and have fun and when he throws his hissy fits just smile at him and think to yourself how stupid he looks."

Is it possible Chris has done something wrong?

Possible. But I'm going by the original post by JAA. That's all the info available at this point.

 

[Godsbrother]

Sounds like a Messi situation. Really I think the best advice is to tell your son to either talk to the coach after practice or just accept that Messi is a jerk and not to let it bother him.

 

[PIK95]

I never did. Wish I went nuclear. Start with him, then go principle and A.D. Squeaky Wheel is more real than ever in 2023. My son went from D1 prospect to now playing college intermurals because guy basically made him hate soccer and generally torpedoed him. Other parents pulling strings behind the scenes ended up with their bench kids being named captain. Two years running now fwiw. Awful. I'm still furious a year after graduation.

Edited to add: I coached the middle school team AND ran the local club's academy. ADVOCATE FOR YOUR KIDS. 2023 is nothing like 2003, definitely not 1993. Coaches don't have close relationships with kids
It's not allowed.

 

[Poke_4_Life]

This place is slipping.

Sleep with Chris' mom!

 

[El Floppo]

Sounds like a Messi situation. Really I think the best advice is to tell your son to either talk to the coach after practice or just accept that Messi is a jerk and not to let it bother him.

Agree. Except the coach yanked Chris to appease Messi... hard to not let that bother you, especially if your replacement is a walking sieve.

 

[El Floppo]

And at least it's not CR9

 

[Sullie]

Two things :

1.) My son didn't play varsity sports but he played Junior high school sports. I told him, from day one, I would not advocate for him on his behalf, he's on his own unless I observed any sort of physical, mental or verbal abuse. And I stuck with that.

2.)I would tell your son to absolutely STOP, no matter when, no matter where and ANYTIME, ANYONE, ANYWHERE says those words you've stated above, I would absolutely say "You treat me with RESPECT! I am NOT your whipping boy, you will NOT speak to me that way! Do you understand me? Do I make myself clear? Knock it off right now!" And if it happens again, keep on him "You need to check yourself, don't talk to me that way!" He needs to aggressively stick up for himself!

 

[JAA]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

To me, this is a man-to-man type of talk:

"Listen son. You are going to run into a-holes like this kid all of your life. You've done nothing wrong - HE is the issue. So you can handle this however you want. It's your call and I can't help you. But I'd give some thought to either talking to your coach about it or take it up with the kid directly. Or you just let it ride and have fun and when he throws his hissy fits just smile at him and think to yourself how stupid he looks."

Is it possible Chris has done something wrong?

Its possible. Though I am one of those parents who thinks their kid is "a good kid". Its unlikely my kid was a *** (skipped a generation), but I open to it being him.

 

[Boston]

Your son is a Senior and he absolutely needs to advocate from himself in this situation...I cannot stress enough that you should not get involved at this point...that is not good for his development as a person...I am old school but your son needs to call this kid out...from what you are saying it is 100% one-sided (would definitely try to confirm this)...try to have a somewhat civilized conversation but he needs to be ready to bring it up a notch and not back down (always good advice to be a sucker's punch away and be ready to go especially if Messi is a loose cannon as you describe)...he cannot accept this behavior/attitude from a teammate...totally unacceptable...he should go to the Captains of the team beforehand and let them know what is going on (from what you are describing they should already know and if they do and aren't doing anything about it they are not leaders)...would not be a bad idea to have one of them present so they can mediate but he needs to stick up for himself first and foremost...see what happens there and then you can figure out what the next step is (probably your son talking with the HC at that point)...if your son has advocated for himself with Messi, the Captains and the HC and nothing has been addressed than the door is open for you to talk to the HC or the AD but that is the last resort...good luck...we always want what is best for our kids but sometimes they need to figure it out for themselves.

 

[dgreen]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

To me, this is a man-to-man type of talk:

"Listen son. You are going to run into a-holes like this kid all of your life. You've done nothing wrong - HE is the issue. So you can handle this however you want. It's your call and I can't help you. But I'd give some thought to either talking to your coach about it or take it up with the kid directly. Or you just let it ride and have fun and when he throws his hissy fits just smile at him and think to yourself how stupid he looks."

Is it possible Chris has done something wrong?

Its possible. Though I am one of those parents who thinks their kid is "a good kid". Its unlikely my kid was a *** (skipped a generation), but I open to it being him.

Yeah, I feel similarly about my kids. But, if I noticed a teammate only lashed out at my kid and not the other teammates, I’d probably think my kid must have done something. Not necessarily done something to deserve it or justify Messi’s actions, but maybe did something that he is reacting to. Nothing major, but I might assume they made a comment behind Messi’s back and word got around. I’d ask my kid why Messi has a problem with them and they’d undoubtedly say, “I don’t know” but I’d just have a hard time believing they don’t know. Good luck. This sounds like a sucky way to end a HS athletic career.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Yeah, don't. I am a Varsity and jv coach. Trust me, we coaches see thos stuff. The difference is some coaches handle it, some blow it off because without messi it hurts the team .

I spent the better part of the last 4 years dealing with personalities rather than technical or tactical worries. It was mote like 10% technical, 20% tactical and 70% HS drama. The 1 mom that approached me was so comical I shut her down by saying "it should tell you something that I was willing to move my starting cb to keeper rather than put you son in at keeper". That started a whole other convo about her tying to find some personal training. I found 4 trainers in 5 minutes willing to help him.

Not saying that's your situation but in my experience parents have way loftier expectations for their kids than anyone else. Your choices are 1. Deal with it and ignore. 2. Get your kid to talk to coach and hope stuff changes or 3. Quit.

Coach ain't benching Messi. Not in high school ball.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

And I will 2nd the poster that said they were told "don't talk to me about on field stuff". If a parent comes to me with that, I just laugh it off. If a player comes to me, let's have a sit down and discuss. Ive never had a problem telling a player his shortcomings. If mom or dad comes to me with it, I'm immediately on the defensive.

I've mainly coached club. Don't really have those issues. it's the high school parents that don't grasp why little Johnny isn't playing full time.

 

[culdeus]

Im trying to figure out if I should speak my sons HS soccer coach. I do not want to be "that parent". Honestly I am planning on not saying anything. However, I am posting here to hear others experiences wondering if I can be convinced to change my mind.

My son (Chris) is a Senior in HS and a varsity soccer player. My son loves soccer and loves his HS coach. He starts left back. He is starting to hate playing on his HS team.

The best player (Messi) on the team and my son don't get along. I have no idea why, I'm not sure why matters but it is my understanding they are "not friends".

On the field during games Messi will yell at my son Chris and verbally chastise him during games when he makes a mistake. My sons mistakes will trigger Messi so much he basically becomes unhinged during the game. Coach will attempt to speak to Messi to calm him down as the game is going along.

Last game I was able to observe from watching behind the bench (like 20') and all of this came to a head. I was able to watch Messi become unmanageable by the coach. Chris makes a mistake (just like every other player 1000x during a game) and Messi starts yelling at Chris, example "Chris, I need you to use your left foot, like I really need you to do that. Jesus Christ!" while his body language becomes all tense and triggered.

Coach proceeds to take out Chris from the game. Messi completely calms down. Player who replaced Chris proceeds to give up 2 goals in bad fashion. Nothing said by Messi rest of the game.

This is the coaches show. This is a good experience for Chris as "Welcome to life and assholes". However, I feel his Senior year is being ruined by an ******* and poor team culture.

Lean here is coach maybe understands the sport better than people and maybe ignores these signs. Confrontation for this is not in the same category as playing time imo. Would do it.

 

[Boston]

And I will 2nd the poster that said they were told "don't talk to me about on field stuff". If a parent comes to me with that, I just laugh it off. If a player comes to me, let's have a sit down and discuss. Ive never had a problem telling a player his shortcomings. If mom or dad comes to me with it, I'm immediately on the defensive.

I've mainly coached club. Don't really have those issues. it's the high school parents that don't grasp why little Johnny isn't playing full time.

Not directing this at JAA because his son's issue appears to not be due to playing time but something else...what many parents see and what others see can be two totally different things and the biggest piece can be what is going on at practice because that is something no one other than the Coaches and team see because it is off-limits to spectators.

 

[belljr]

My daughter senior year was a trainwreck because of favoritism and catty/pettiness...... I wont go into detail but when the tide turned and everyone saw the true colors of said person it made my daughter and us feel way better. When she got the game winning hit after not batting a few game, the entire parents section erupted and laid into the coach..... made us feel better that it wasn't parent "goggles"...... couldn't tell you the number of parents that would be like why is belljrjr not batting this game, I just shrug and say no idea ........ even the one dad who's kid "filled" in came to me and was liek WTF is my kid batting over yours - in the end it worked out but it was a rough month or so....

My point, Other than a thanks or good game I never said a word to the coach...... But we also knew of his horrible coaching prior to being on the team......

 

[Da Guru]

Tough situation.

The #1 reason parents talk to the coach is playing time. "Why is my kid not playing? Coaches are in the gym or on the field countless of hours watching. The team and coaches both want to win. So they usually make the decision that is better for the team or the future of the team.

This is different, seems to be a personal issue between the players. In HS coaches will not bench and probably not talk to their best player about this.

 

[Boston]

Tough situation.

The #1 reason parents talk to the coach is playing time. "Why is my kid not playing? Coaches are in the gym or on the field countless of hours watching. The team and coaches both want to win. So they usually make the decision that is better for the team or the future of the team.

This is different, seems to be a personal issue between the players. In HS coaches will not bench and probably not talk to their best player about this.

Any HS HC that does this is doing a player like Messi a huge disservice as a person and if the kid is going to play college sports things will not go well for them there and the HS HC will be complicit in it...any Coach that allows a star player at that age to run the show in a negative manner is not fit to be a HC and should be embarrassed.

 

[Da Guru]

Tough situation.

The #1 reason parents talk to the coach is playing time. "Why is my kid not playing? Coaches are in the gym or on the field countless of hours watching. The team and coaches both want to win. So they usually make the decision that is better for the team or the future of the team.

This is different, seems to be a personal issue between the players. In HS coaches will not bench and probably not talk to their best player about this.

Any HS HC that does this is doing a player like Messi a huge disservice as a person and if the kid is going to play college sports things will not go well for them there and the HS HC will be complicit in it...any Coach that allows a star player at that age to run the show in a negative manner is not fit to be a HC and should be embarrassed.

Both my daughters played college volleyball and on club #1s team. I have been around this a long time and have seen many Messi`s. Star players who go back to HS after club and think they can berate lesser players.

On a club level 1 team all the players are the best on their HS teams so they can`t get away with that crap.

Is the HS doing a disserve? Yes, but it rarely changes. If it does the coach is usually the loser as most HSs do not have strong ADs.

 

[JAA]

Really good feedback here

Its been my experience that Dad's cant tell their 17yo sons anything. As well, Dad's are always wrong.

What is the right way to approach my 17yo kid and convince him this situation is one which is worth advocating for?

To me, this is a man-to-man type of talk:

"Listen son. You are going to run into a-holes like this kid all of your life. You've done nothing wrong - HE is the issue. So you can handle this however you want. It's your call and I can't help you. But I'd give some thought to either talking to your coach about it or take it up with the kid directly. Or you just let it ride and have fun and when he throws his hissy fits just smile at him and think to yourself how stupid he looks."

Is it possible Chris has done something wrong?

Its possible. Though I am one of those parents who thinks their kid is "a good kid". Its unlikely my kid was a *** (skipped a generation), but I open to it being him.

Yeah, I feel similarly about my kids. But, if I noticed a teammate only lashed out at my kid and not the other teammates, I’d probably think my kid must have done something. Not necessarily done something to deserve it or justify Messi’s actions, but maybe did something that he is reacting to. Nothing major, but I might assume they made a comment behind Messi’s back and word got around. I’d ask my kid why Messi has a problem with them and they’d undoubtedly say, “I don’t know” but I’d just have a hard time believing they don’t know. Good luck. This sounds like a sucky way to end a HS athletic career.

Oh Im sure my kid did something to piss off Messi. Was he probably didnt put up with something Messi did. I do know they "arent friends". This has manifested somewhat with Chris not hanging out after wins since Messi is the best player and many are opportunistic friends.

Im speculating a good bit here, but I know my kid, his strengths and weaknesses. Ive also seen Messi acting like this all season. So its not like Im manifesting this adversity. However, I do not know how deep it goes or why.

That said, the feedback here has been great. I will figure out a way to approach Chris and have a man-to-man even if he doesnt want to.

 

[jobarules]

I think the 'ol "Shut the "F*** Up" to Messi from your son is in order here.

Sometimes thats all it takes

 

[JAA]

Yeah, don't. I am a Varsity and jv coach. Trust me, we coaches see thos stuff. The difference is some coaches handle it, some blow it off because without messi it hurts the team .

I spent the better part of the last 4 years dealing with personalities rather than technical or tactical worries. It was mote like 10% technical, 20% tactical and 70% HS drama. The 1 mom that approached me was so comical I shut her down by saying "it should tell you something that I was willing to move my starting cb to keeper rather than put you son in at keeper". That started a whole other convo about her tying to find some personal training. I found 4 trainers in 5 minutes willing to help him.

Not saying that's your situation but in my experience parents have way loftier expectations for their kids than anyone else. Your choices are 1. Deal with it and ignore. 2. Get your kid to talk to coach and hope stuff changes or 3. Quit.

Coach ain't benching Messi. Not in high school ball.

Thank you for the 1st hand response. This is really helpful. I would like to ask you something kinda personal, but I do not want to offend you or come off arrogant or pompous. There is no right or wrong in this. I simply want to understand through sharing my experiences.

My profession is building great teams to deliver high value software on time and under budget. Ive been doing this a long time and Im pretty good at it. I say this to give background on what Im about to say based on my experiences. I should add I have also had to correct poor teams in the public sector including a fire department, public works, and other appointed city leaders.

In my experience, culture is the most important aspect of a high performing team. Now, Im not leading High School kids in sports, however IMO culture is always paramount. I believe it is critical as while some kids may not be speaking up, or showing that they care about this situation, they are 100% listening and learning to the situation and how the coach handles it. This is simple human nature. We all want to fit into the dynamics of our environment. We all want to survive. Once kids understand the culture, they adapt to it, act in it, to make sure they continue with it. The coach/leader is defining this culture. Coach is allowing Messi to treat his teammates this way. Yes, for the sake of winning, but this is now the team's culture none the less.

This would be my assessment of the culture: The best players can act anyway they want. Tantrums are rewarded and the best way to get what you want. If you arent buddy buddy with the best player(s) you risk sitting or not being part of the team. Be careful about challenging these players, either sport wise or intelligence wise, inside the game, inside the school, or even outside the school as you may get on their bad side. BTW - its possible the best players dont like you because you are smarter, better looking, more money, getting more wimmens, etc, etc.

Why on earth would anyone want this team culture, especially in a sport like soccer where 1 player cannot make your team state champion?

What about developing young men? Is this not a thing anymore? Do parents truly only care about winning and not about how their kid has developed as a person?

My first saying for team dynamics is "addition by subtraction". I have turned around teams simply by eliminating the bad apples. Few times the bad apple "got the message" and got in line. Most often that person, or those people, have to go. I wont go into a lot of details of why this is important, but the basics are your team/company is a bus and you have a journey to go on. Your first step is to get the wrong people off the bus. Next, you get the right people on the bus. Then you find everyone seats. In that order. This establishes a culture of "good apples" are rewarded and provided an opportunity to grow and excel. From there everyone is raised up by everyone else. There is a lot more to it, but this is literally step 1 in team building.

In my field "superman" or "the best player" never ensures success. This is because superman doesnt scale. He cant be everywhere all the time. Its not possible. Instead, once you get a poor culture like this, less and less folks want to be around as they risk wrath. In about 12-18 months the only people left are the ones who don't have any better options. No one "wants" to be a part of this team.

I didnt invent this approach. If anyone is interested, the defacto standard on all of this leadership mumbo jumbo is the book: https://a.co/d/h1VbjcU

Regardless, thank you for sharing and listening.

 

[JAA]

Tough situation.

The #1 reason parents talk to the coach is playing time. "Why is my kid not playing? Coaches are in the gym or on the field countless of hours watching. The team and coaches both want to win. So they usually make the decision that is better for the team or the future of the team.

This is different, seems to be a personal issue between the players. In HS coaches will not bench and probably not talk to their best player about this.

Any HS HC that does this is doing a player like Messi a huge disservice as a person and if the kid is going to play college sports things will not go well for them there and the HS HC will be complicit in it...any Coach that allows a star player at that age to run the show in a negative manner is not fit to be a HC and should be embarrassed.

Messi will prolly play D3 soccer, D2 if they are lucky.

 

[belljr]

Yeah, don't. I am a Varsity and jv coach. Trust me, we coaches see thos stuff. The difference is some coaches handle it, some blow it off because without messi it hurts the team .

I spent the better part of the last 4 years dealing with personalities rather than technical or tactical worries. It was mote like 10% technical, 20% tactical and 70% HS drama. The 1 mom that approached me was so comical I shut her down by saying "it should tell you something that I was willing to move my starting cb to keeper rather than put you son in at keeper". That started a whole other convo about her tying to find some personal training. I found 4 trainers in 5 minutes willing to help him.

Not saying that's your situation but in my experience parents have way loftier expectations for their kids than anyone else. Your choices are 1. Deal with it and ignore. 2. Get your kid to talk to coach and hope stuff changes or 3. Quit.

Coach ain't benching Messi. Not in high school ball.

Thank you for the 1st hand response. This is really helpful. I would like to ask you something kinda personal, but I do not want to offend you or come off arrogant or pompous. There is no right or wrong in this. I simply want to understand through sharing my experiences.

My profession is building great teams to deliver high value software on time and under budget. Ive been doing this a long time and Im pretty good at it. I say this to give background on what Im about to say based on my experiences. I should add I have also had to correct poor teams in the public sector including a fire department, public works, and other appointed city leaders.

In my experience, culture is the most important aspect of a high performing team. Now, Im not leading High School kids in sports, however IMO culture is always paramount. I believe it is critical as while some kids may not be speaking up, or showing that they care about this situation, they are 100% listening and learning to the situation and how the coach handles it. This is simple human nature. We all want to fit into the dynamics of our environment. We all want to survive. Once kids understand the culture, they adapt to it, act in it, to make sure they continue with it. The coach/leader is defining this culture. Coach is allowing Messi to treat his teammates this way. Yes, for the sake of winning, but this is now the team's culture none the less.

This would be my assessment of the culture: The best players can act anyway they want. Tantrums are rewarded and the best way to get what you want. If you arent buddy buddy with the best player(s) you risk sitting or not being part of the team. Be careful about challenging these players, either sport wise or intelligence wise, inside the game, inside the school, or even outside the school as you may get on their bad side. BTW - its possible the best players dont like you because you are smarter, better looking, more money, getting more wimmens, etc, etc.

Why on earth would anyone want this team culture, especially in a sport like soccer where 1 player cannot make your team state champion?

What about developing young men? Is this not a thing anymore? Do parents truly only care about winning and not about how their kid has developed as a person?

My first saying for team dynamics is "addition by subtraction". I have turned around teams simply by eliminating the bad apples. Few times the bad apple "got the message" and got in line. Most often that person, or those people, have to go. I wont go into a lot of details of why this is important, but the basics are your team/company is a bus and you have a journey to go on. Your first step is to get the wrong people off the bus. Next, you get the right people on the bus. Then you find everyone seats. In that order. This establishes a culture of "good apples" are rewarded and provided an opportunity to grow and excel. From there everyone is raised up by everyone else. There is a lot more to it, but this is literally step 1 in team building.

In my field "superman" or "the best player" never ensures success. This is because superman doesnt scale. He cant be everywhere all the time. Its not possible. Instead, once you get a poor culture like this, less and less folks want to be around as they risk wrath. In about 12-18 months the only people left are the ones who don't have any better options. No one "wants" to be a part of this team.

I didnt invent this approach. If anyone is interested, the defacto standard on all of this leadership mumbo jumbo is the book: https://a.co/d/h1VbjcU

Regardless, thank you for sharing and listening.

I can give you a short answer....... Many teachers don't know how to coach. I will not speak for every situation and every HS coach on the planet but many EVEN with great intentions just don't know either the x's and o's or how to handle team dynamics........ some are full of themselves, some are fantastic, some are just dealing the hand that is dealt.........

 

[Boston]

Tough situation.

The #1 reason parents talk to the coach is playing time. "Why is my kid not playing? Coaches are in the gym or on the field countless of hours watching. The team and coaches both want to win. So they usually make the decision that is better for the team or the future of the team.

This is different, seems to be a personal issue between the players. In HS coaches will not bench and probably not talk to their best player about this.

Any HS HC that does this is doing a player like Messi a huge disservice as a person and if the kid is going to play college sports things will not go well for them there and the HS HC will be complicit in it...any Coach that allows a star player at that age to run the show in a negative manner is not fit to be a HC and should be embarrassed.

Messi will prolly play D3 soccer, D2 if they are lucky.

Regardless of the Division one of the first things you find out in college is pretty much all the kids (especially the ones that see the field) were studs or very good players in high school…for many it is a real wake up call and some simply can’t handle being on the bench let alone no longer being the man.

 

[JAA]

Yeah, don't. I am a Varsity and jv coach. Trust me, we coaches see thos stuff. The difference is some coaches handle it, some blow it off because without messi it hurts the team .

I spent the better part of the last 4 years dealing with personalities rather than technical or tactical worries. It was mote like 10% technical, 20% tactical and 70% HS drama. The 1 mom that approached me was so comical I shut her down by saying "it should tell you something that I was willing to move my starting cb to keeper rather than put you son in at keeper". That started a whole other convo about her tying to find some personal training. I found 4 trainers in 5 minutes willing to help him.

Not saying that's your situation but in my experience parents have way loftier expectations for their kids than anyone else. Your choices are 1. Deal with it and ignore. 2. Get your kid to talk to coach and hope stuff changes or 3. Quit.

Coach ain't benching Messi. Not in high school ball.

Thank you for the 1st hand response. This is really helpful. I would like to ask you something kinda personal, but I do not want to offend you or come off arrogant or pompous. There is no right or wrong in this. I simply want to understand through sharing my experiences.

My profession is building great teams to deliver high value software on time and under budget. Ive been doing this a long time and Im pretty good at it. I say this to give background on what Im about to say based on my experiences. I should add I have also had to correct poor teams in the public sector including a fire department, public works, and other appointed city leaders.

In my experience, culture is the most important aspect of a high performing team. Now, Im not leading High School kids in sports, however IMO culture is always paramount. I believe it is critical as while some kids may not be speaking up, or showing that they care about this situation, they are 100% listening and learning to the situation and how the coach handles it. This is simple human nature. We all want to fit into the dynamics of our environment. We all want to survive. Once kids understand the culture, they adapt to it, act in it, to make sure they continue with it. The coach/leader is defining this culture. Coach is allowing Messi to treat his teammates this way. Yes, for the sake of winning, but this is now the team's culture none the less.

This would be my assessment of the culture: The best players can act anyway they want. Tantrums are rewarded and the best way to get what you want. If you arent buddy buddy with the best player(s) you risk sitting or not being part of the team. Be careful about challenging these players, either sport wise or intelligence wise, inside the game, inside the school, or even outside the school as you may get on their bad side. BTW - its possible the best players dont like you because you are smarter, better looking, more money, getting more wimmens, etc, etc.

Why on earth would anyone want this team culture, especially in a sport like soccer where 1 player cannot make your team state champion?

What about developing young men? Is this not a thing anymore? Do parents truly only care about winning and not about how their kid has developed as a person?

My first saying for team dynamics is "addition by subtraction". I have turned around teams simply by eliminating the bad apples. Few times the bad apple "got the message" and got in line. Most often that person, or those people, have to go. I wont go into a lot of details of why this is important, but the basics are your team/company is a bus and you have a journey to go on. Your first step is to get the wrong people off the bus. Next, you get the right people on the bus. Then you find everyone seats. In that order. This establishes a culture of "good apples" are rewarded and provided an opportunity to grow and excel. From there everyone is raised up by everyone else. There is a lot more to it, but this is literally step 1 in team building.

In my field "superman" or "the best player" never ensures success. This is because superman doesnt scale. He cant be everywhere all the time. Its not possible. Instead, once you get a poor culture like this, less and less folks want to be around as they risk wrath. In about 12-18 months the only people left are the ones who don't have any better options. No one "wants" to be a part of this team.

I didnt invent this approach. If anyone is interested, the defacto standard on all of this leadership mumbo jumbo is the book: https://a.co/d/h1VbjcU

Regardless, thank you for sharing and listening.

I can give you a short answer....... Many teachers don't know how to coach. I will not speak for every situation and every HS coach on the planet but many EVEN with great intentions just don't know either the x's and o's or how to handle team dynamics........ some are full of themselves, some are fantastic, some are just dealing the hand that is dealt.........

Our HS coach is a paid coach who does not work for the school. He coaches soccer full time. His resume includes boys ECNL national championships.

 

[Ron Swanson]

My first saying for team dynamics is "addition by subtraction". I have turned around teams simply by eliminating the bad apples. Few times the bad apple "got the message" and got in line. Most often that person, or those people, have to go. I wont go into a lot of details of why this is important, but the basics are your team/company is a bus and you have a journey to go on. Your first step is to get the wrong people off the bus. Next, you get the right people on the bus. Then you find everyone seats. In that order.

Looks like we've got a regular Stephen Covey over here. I use the same analogy all the time when mentoring our young leaders.

 

[Gally]

As it's been pretty clear this is not an issue for you to take to the coach. Your son has to do it. Unless the issues with Messi go beyond the field where physical or non-game related abuse. Then it should be brought up with the Coach & Athletic director as it goes beyond the sport.

As a varsity coach I would tell all the players that their parents should not come see me on their behalf. If they had an issue then it is on the player to come to me with the issue and we can discuss it from all perpsectives. I believe this is part of a coaches responsibility to help the kids grow and part of that is being able to voice concerns to authority figures like a coach when they deem there is an issue. Open communication and making yourself available for the kids is the coach's job.

All that being said, based on the OP it doesn't appear the coach is nipping this in the bud and it has become a much larger issue. Regardless the correct approach is for your son to handle it himself. He should ask the coach to talk and as part of that talk he should suggest a sit down with Messi, your kid and the coach. I would say go directly to the Messi first but it doesn't seem like that would be a good idea based on where it is has gotten at this point.

This is an issue the coach really needs to address. I doubt he will based on where it has gotten but you going to the coach won't help and could only make it worse. This is a growth potential for your kid and helping him through that by giving him support to step up himself is your job as a parent at this point.

Good Luck.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Yeah, don't. I am a Varsity and jv coach. Trust me, we coaches see thos stuff. The difference is some coaches handle it, some blow it off because without messi it hurts the team .

I spent the better part of the last 4 years dealing with personalities rather than technical or tactical worries. It was mote like 10% technical, 20% tactical and 70% HS drama. The 1 mom that approached me was so comical I shut her down by saying "it should tell you something that I was willing to move my starting cb to keeper rather than put you son in at keeper". That started a whole other convo about her tying to find some personal training. I found 4 trainers in 5 minutes willing to help him.

Not saying that's your situation but in my experience parents have way loftier expectations for their kids than anyone else. Your choices are 1. Deal with it and ignore. 2. Get your kid to talk to coach and hope stuff changes or 3. Quit.

Coach ain't benching Messi. Not in high school ball.

Thank you for the 1st hand response. This is really helpful. I would like to ask you something kinda personal, but I do not want to offend you or come off arrogant or pompous. There is no right or wrong in this. I simply want to understand through sharing my experiences.

My profession is building great teams to deliver high value software on time and under budget. Ive been doing this a long time and Im pretty good at it. I say this to give background on what Im about to say based on my experiences. I should add I have also had to correct poor teams in the public sector including a fire department, public works, and other appointed city leaders.

In my experience, culture is the most important aspect of a high performing team. Now, Im not leading High School kids in sports, however IMO culture is always paramount. I believe it is critical as while some kids may not be speaking up, or showing that they care about this situation, they are 100% listening and learning to the situation and how the coach handles it. This is simple human nature. We all want to fit into the dynamics of our environment. We all want to survive. Once kids understand the culture, they adapt to it, act in it, to make sure they continue with it. The coach/leader is defining this culture. Coach is allowing Messi to treat his teammates this way. Yes, for the sake of winning, but this is now the team's culture none the less.

This would be my assessment of the culture: The best players can act anyway they want. Tantrums are rewarded and the best way to get what you want. If you arent buddy buddy with the best player(s) you risk sitting or not being part of the team. Be careful about challenging these players, either sport wise or intelligence wise, inside the game, inside the school, or even outside the school as you may get on their bad side. BTW - its possible the best players dont like you because you are smarter, better looking, more money, getting more wimmens, etc, etc.

Why on earth would anyone want this team culture, especially in a sport like soccer where 1 player cannot make your team state champion?

What about developing young men? Is this not a thing anymore? Do parents truly only care about winning and not about how their kid has developed as a person?

My first saying for team dynamics is "addition by subtraction". I have turned around teams simply by eliminating the bad apples. Few times the bad apple "got the message" and got in line. Most often that person, or those people, have to go. I wont go into a lot of details of why this is important, but the basics are your team/company is a bus and you have a journey to go on. Your first step is to get the wrong people off the bus. Next, you get the right people on the bus. Then you find everyone seats. In that order. This establishes a culture of "good apples" are rewarded and provided an opportunity to grow and excel. From there everyone is raised up by everyone else. There is a lot more to it, but this is literally step 1 in team building.

In my field "superman" or "the best player" never ensures success. This is because superman doesnt scale. He cant be everywhere all the time. Its not possible. Instead, once you get a poor culture like this, less and less folks want to be around as they risk wrath. In about 12-18 months the only people left are the ones who don't have any better options. No one "wants" to be a part of this team.

I didnt invent this approach. If anyone is interested, the defacto standard on all of this leadership mumbo jumbo is the book: https://a.co/d/h1VbjcU

Regardless, thank you for sharing and listening.

@JAA sorry about what your kid is going through. You found my thread and my kids' thread and experiences. It can suck.

Your post here is 100% what I have noticed in our community as well - the "good" players (again, none of them are LeBron. The best kid on the team might go to D2/D3) can scream and yell act like assholes, and largely don't pass care about the team and offense. There is a couple who literally pull their hair and throw tantrums, yet have never been sat down or yelled at for that behavior, it's bananas. but it's a combination of them being the "good" players OR to the coaches that somehow translates to them "caring" more about the game than my kid who is quiet, studies the game, and knows the O inside and out.

Maybe I missed if there are rules from the coach how to interact with them, but IMO something should be said if your kid is that unhappy. At least you know where the coach is at and it will lead to an informed decision at least.

 

[bcat01]

Have your kid pay an opposing player to take Messi out.

 

[Gally]

Have your kid pay an opposing player to take Messi out.

Its called a "Gillooly"

 

[Angry Beavers]

In order, Sleep with Messi's Mom and coaches Wife - at the same time if possible;
and give your son talking points but this is a life lesson for him where he needs to stand up for himself;
Sucks that this is happening his Senior year but treat it as a chance to give your son to grow as a person

 

[JAA]

As it's been pretty clear this is not an issue for you to take to the coach. Your son has to do it. Unless the issues with Messi go beyond the field where physical or non-game related abuse. Then it should be brought up with the Coach & Athletic director as it goes beyond the sport.

As a varsity coach I would tell all the players that their parents should not come see me on their behalf. If they had an issue then it is on the player to come to me with the issue and we can discuss it from all perpsectives. I believe this is part of a coaches responsibility to help the kids grow and part of that is being able to voice concerns to authority figures like a coach when they deem there is an issue. Open communication and making yourself available for the kids is the coach's job.

All that being said, based on the OP it doesn't appear the coach is nipping this in the bud and it has become a much larger issue. Regardless the correct approach is for your son to handle it himself. He should ask the coach to talk and as part of that talk he should suggest a sit down with Messi, your kid and the coach. I would say go directly to the Messi first but it doesn't seem like that would be a good idea based on where it is has gotten at this point.

This is an issue the coach really needs to address. I doubt he will based on where it has gotten but you going to the coach won't help and could only make it worse. This is a growth potential for your kid and helping him through that by giving him support to step up himself is your job as a parent at this point.

Good Luck.

Thank you

 

[JAA]

Yeah, don't. I am a Varsity and jv coach. Trust me, we coaches see thos stuff. The difference is some coaches handle it, some blow it off because without messi it hurts the team .

I spent the better part of the last 4 years dealing with personalities rather than technical or tactical worries. It was mote like 10% technical, 20% tactical and 70% HS drama. The 1 mom that approached me was so comical I shut her down by saying "it should tell you something that I was willing to move my starting cb to keeper rather than put you son in at keeper". That started a whole other convo about her tying to find some personal training. I found 4 trainers in 5 minutes willing to help him.

Not saying that's your situation but in my experience parents have way loftier expectations for their kids than anyone else. Your choices are 1. Deal with it and ignore. 2. Get your kid to talk to coach and hope stuff changes or 3. Quit.

Coach ain't benching Messi. Not in high school ball.

Thank you for the 1st hand response. This is really helpful. I would like to ask you something kinda personal, but I do not want to offend you or come off arrogant or pompous. There is no right or wrong in this. I simply want to understand through sharing my experiences.

My profession is building great teams to deliver high value software on time and under budget. Ive been doing this a long time and Im pretty good at it. I say this to give background on what Im about to say based on my experiences. I should add I have also had to correct poor teams in the public sector including a fire department, public works, and other appointed city leaders.

In my experience, culture is the most important aspect of a high performing team. Now, Im not leading High School kids in sports, however IMO culture is always paramount. I believe it is critical as while some kids may not be speaking up, or showing that they care about this situation, they are 100% listening and learning to the situation and how the coach handles it. This is simple human nature. We all want to fit into the dynamics of our environment. We all want to survive. Once kids understand the culture, they adapt to it, act in it, to make sure they continue with it. The coach/leader is defining this culture. Coach is allowing Messi to treat his teammates this way. Yes, for the sake of winning, but this is now the team's culture none the less.

This would be my assessment of the culture: The best players can act anyway they want. Tantrums are rewarded and the best way to get what you want. If you arent buddy buddy with the best player(s) you risk sitting or not being part of the team. Be careful about challenging these players, either sport wise or intelligence wise, inside the game, inside the school, or even outside the school as you may get on their bad side. BTW - its possible the best players dont like you because you are smarter, better looking, more money, getting more wimmens, etc, etc.

Why on earth would anyone want this team culture, especially in a sport like soccer where 1 player cannot make your team state champion?

What about developing young men? Is this not a thing anymore? Do parents truly only care about winning and not about how their kid has developed as a person?

My first saying for team dynamics is "addition by subtraction". I have turned around teams simply by eliminating the bad apples. Few times the bad apple "got the message" and got in line. Most often that person, or those people, have to go. I wont go into a lot of details of why this is important, but the basics are your team/company is a bus and you have a journey to go on. Your first step is to get the wrong people off the bus. Next, you get the right people on the bus. Then you find everyone seats. In that order. This establishes a culture of "good apples" are rewarded and provided an opportunity to grow and excel. From there everyone is raised up by everyone else. There is a lot more to it, but this is literally step 1 in team building.

In my field "superman" or "the best player" never ensures success. This is because superman doesnt scale. He cant be everywhere all the time. Its not possible. Instead, once you get a poor culture like this, less and less folks want to be around as they risk wrath. In about 12-18 months the only people left are the ones who don't have any better options. No one "wants" to be a part of this team.

I didnt invent this approach. If anyone is interested, the defacto standard on all of this leadership mumbo jumbo is the book: https://a.co/d/h1VbjcU

Regardless, thank you for sharing and listening.

@JAA sorry about what your kid is going through. You found my thread and my kids' thread and experiences. It can suck.

Your post here is 100% what I have noticed in our community as well - the "good" players (again, none of them are LeBron. The best kid on the team might go to D2/D3) can scream and yell act like assholes, and largely don't pass care about the team and offense. There is a couple who literally pull their hair and throw tantrums, yet have never been sat down or yelled at for that behavior, it's bananas. but it's a combination of them being the "good" players OR to the coaches that somehow translates to them "caring" more about the game than my kid who is quiet, studies the game, and knows the O inside and out.

Maybe I missed if there are rules from the coach how to interact with them, but IMO something should be said if your kid is that unhappy. At least you know where the coach is at and it will lead to an informed decision at least.

Thank you

 

[ChiefD]

I think the 'ol "Shut the "F*** Up" to Messi from your son is in order here.

So, this response actually came from a true story from my son's hockey team. This was a couple of years ago when he was 13 or so. He was on a team with some buddies that had played together for a couple of years. A bunch of good players who worked really good together.

Anyway, at our rink there are some girls that play on the boys teams because:

1. They are really good players and deserve the spot

2. They don't want to play on the all-girls travel team because it costs a ton of money and the competition isn't as good

Anyway, there was this one girl that was on their team. This kid would just talk trash every single practice and during games. She would tell the guys they suck and yell at them to pass her the puck and just up in everyone's rear end. This happened during preseason practices and games.

Finally, in the locker room before one of the practices she was going on and on. So one of the boys just looked up and said: "Why don't you just shut the f*** up?"

And that ended it right there. To the relief of the rest of the kids on the team.

(she still plays with them and she is a fantastic player and teammate)