Has Vick been blackballed? (1 Viewer)

[Mark Wimer]

I'm not aware of any 49ers who slap women so I am not sure. I will say if a player grabbed a woman and smashed her head into the concrete until she was dead then the answer is I wouldn't support them without a doubt. The same goes for a player hanging, electrocuting or drowning a female. What does slapping a woman have to do with Mike Vick anyhow?

So, you think killing a dog is worse than slapping a women? If not, then why do athletes get a break from that, yet spend prison time for the dog killing? Also, why are they probably blackballed over it and wife beaters still find work?

Vick wasn't in jail for killing dogs.

OK, he was convicted of dog fighting that resulted in dogs dying. Happy?Federal criminal prosecution

Speech made to U.S. Senate Following the Indictment of Michael Vick on federal Dog-fighting ChargesIn July 2007, Vick and three other men were charged by federal authorities with felony charges of operating an unlawful six-year long interstate dog fighting venture known as "Bad Newz Kennels" at Vick's 15-acre property in Surry County, Virginia. Vick was accused of financing the operation, directly participating in dog fights and executions, and personally handling thousands of dollars in related gambling activities. Federal prosecutors indicated they intended to proceed under the powerful provisions of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), a United States federal law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization.

He pled guilty to avoid the RICO prosecution. And he was guilty of violating RICO. Note the "civil cause of action" - the Feds could have stripped him of all his properties and money under RICO and associated civil suits sure to follow. Yes I know he's in bankruptczy court right now, but he still has assets that he wants to retain as part of the settlement. He would probably have had nothing if he'd been found guilty under RICO. That's why Vick went to jail - to preserve some portion of his wealth.

Under RICO, a person who is a member of an enterprise that has committed any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and/or sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity." RICO also permits a private individual harmed by the actions of such an enterprise to file a civil suit; if successful, the individual can collect treble damages.

When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, he or she has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond. This provision was placed in the law because the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations often absconded with the assets. An injunction and/or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.

In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court, as it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.[2]

There is also a provision for private parties to sue. A "person damaged in his business or property" can sue one or more "racketeers." The plaintiff must prove the existence of a "criminal enterprise." The defendant(s) are not the enterprise; in other words, the defendant(s) and the enterprise are not one and the same. There must be one of four specified relationships between the defendant(s) and the enterprise. A civil RICO action, like many lawsuits based on federal law, can be filed in state or federal court. [1]

Both the federal and civil components allow for the recovery of treble damages (damages in triple the amount of actual/compensatory damages).

The guy has openly admitted to violating the NFL's prohibition against gambling activity by NFL players, and there is a lot of room to question whether or not he threw games as a result of his illegal, interstate gambling activities. It would go a long way to explaining why Vick could be so accurate and impressive one week and so horrid the very next week. Of course, his well-documented love for partying and marijuana could also be the cause for his legendary inconsistency.

The point is, nobody but Vick will ever know if he intentionally threw games. But there is a reasonable level of suspicion that he may have.

Which is exactly why the NFL prohibits gambling/associating with known gamblers (most especially, illegal bookmakers like those who take bets at dogfights, on which Vick admitted (by pleading guilty to the federal case against him) that he provided money to be wagered by an intermediary on the fights numbering in 10,000's of thousands of dollars per fight on some occasions).

The guy is toxic for WAY more reason than the dog fighting, folks. He ran an illegal, interstate gambling operation. There is no question that he did do so.

 

[ozark]

Who gives a 'damn' ?

 

[Avery]

Vick is suspended and under contract. Johnny ignored that, but that completely explains why the teams are stating no interest. End of story. So the entire premise of this thread, that he is being blackballed, is unfounded unless Johnny can present other evidence of it happening. Which I'm sure he cannot.Now, assuming he is reinstated and the Falcons release him, the question becomes whether or not it is worth the risks for a team to sign him. The risks include the following:1. Protests and negative backlash from various groups, the media, and the team's fans.2. Possible loss in revenue from that negative backlash by the team's fans. Certainly, it seems reasonably likely that this factor will offset any revenue gain from adding Vick to the roster from excited fans. Best case revenue wise is likely flat. So IMO it comes down to only whether or not he helps the team win enough additional games to offset the negatives.3. Vick likely does not fit the offense and would require special plays, like the Wildcat formation (name another team that runs an offense suited for a QB with Vick's unique skill set).3a. So is it worth 1 & 2 for a gimmick player?3b. If the starting QB goes down, can Vick successfully run the offense? Presumably, the scheme and playcalling would have to be adjusted.4. Vick has been out of the league for 2+ years... not only no games, but no practices, no film, no offseason workouts and activities, etc.4a. Vick was never a strong passing QB. Those skills have likely deteriorated with the time off. How long will it take him to return to where he was? Is there any reason to believe he can improve going forward?4b. Vick's success was always based on his physical abilities that allowed him to be the best rushing QB in league history. But he cannot be in football shape at this point, and he has been unable to use those running skills for 2+ years. How long will it take him to return to where he was? Is there any reason to believe he can improve going forward?5. What kind of investment will Vick require? Can he be signed for a minimum contract, or will he expect more?

Addresses the situation without getting mired in the circular trap of moral arguments that can not be won or lost.Well done!

 

[brutha]

he'll end up on a roster somewhere, make no mistake, even if just as a backup or "slash" or so on. sadly teams - and people - care more about how good of a player he still might be vs the fact that he redefined "POS". pretty pathetic and I will root for that team to lose every game they play, badly.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I thought this thread got locked.

 

[dirty_martini]

I think the appropriate saying is that someone is black listed not black balled ...

 

[JohnnyU]

I think the appropriate saying is that someone is black listed not black balled ...

Should we worry about that? I'm fine with the Mods changing the title if they want to.

 

[cobalt_27]

Why on earth was this thread locked?

Once locked, why resurrect it?

Unstable trigger fingers?

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Ron Mexico = UFL

 

[KTM]

ETA: teams being "afraid" of negative impact <> blackballed.

I think this is more the answer. This league is above all else, a business. Winning is a huge part of the business. That's why Leonard Little is welcomed back after what he did. It's why Donte Stallworth will be eventually welcomed back. The positive they bring outweighs the negative. Right now, there are lots of teams worried that the negatives are too great for Vick. We'll see. I truly don't think it has anything to do with blackballing. It has to do with business.

J

And that's what's so screwed up about all of this. The negative connotation of Vick killing dogs is worse than someone beating their wife, killing someone while drunk driving, drug offenses, 11 kids with 11 different women, etc etc. signed,

owner of 2 labs

I don't understand where you're going with this. So you think a guy who smokes pot and gets caught for smoking pot is a worse human being than someone who killed dogs and ran a dogfighting ring? I've smoked weed before, and i even got caught doing it at high school. You know what buddy, I can still sleep at night. I am not so sure I could sleep at night if I murdered a bunch of dogs and got excited by doing it.

No, smoking a little pot isn't the same. Rest easy - weed shouldn't be illegal.

 

[KTM]

And that's what's so screwed up about all of this. The negative connotation of Vick killing dogs is worse than someone beating their wife, killing someone while drunk driving, drug offenses, 11 kids with 11 different women, etc etc.

signed,

owner of 2 labs

Why don't you write you congressman and tell him how you want murdering dogs and running illegal gambling rings taken off the penal code, while you're at it let your congressman know that you want it to be a major crime for having children with more than 1 woman, I am sure your congressman will think it's such a good idea to call a special hearing of Congress, an emergency session to correct these heinous mistakes in the criminal justice system!!! Just out of curiousity, how many years in prison should a person with 11 kids with 11 women get in prison? Should it be a capital crime?

We need someone like you to rise up and rule the galaxy with absolute rule.

It's amazing how many words get shoved into people's mouths these days...Where did I say 11/11 should go to jail? Where did I say Vick shouldn't have gone to jail?

It's the public perception that's wrong. So you hold the Travis Henrys of the world above the Mike Vicks? It's a sad sad world we live in these days.

 

[thayman]

And that's what's so screwed up about all of this. The negative connotation of Vick killing dogs is worse than someone beating their wife, killing someone while drunk driving, drug offenses, 11 kids with 11 different women, etc etc.

signed,

owner of 2 labs

Why don't you write you congressman and tell him how you want murdering dogs and running illegal gambling rings taken off the penal code, while you're at it let your congressman know that you want it to be a major crime for having children with more than 1 woman, I am sure your congressman will think it's such a good idea to call a special hearing of Congress, an emergency session to correct these heinous mistakes in the criminal justice system!!! Just out of curiousity, how many years in prison should a person with 11 kids with 11 women get in prison? Should it be a capital crime?

We need someone like you to rise up and rule the galaxy with absolute rule.

It's amazing how many words get shoved into people's mouths these days...Where did I say 11/11 should go to jail? Where did I say Vick shouldn't have gone to jail?

It's the public perception that's wrong. So you hold the Travis Henrys of the world above the Mike Vicks? It's a sad sad world we live in these days.

If you think Travis Heny having 11 kids is morally wrong that's fine, but you have to see that most people would think that Vick's actions are worse than Henry's.

 

[TopDawg]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/198442-...downgradesatire

 

[Matt Waldman]

My .02 on the Vick saga...

 

[TopDawg]

 

[brutha]

Sure looking that way. Teams are quick to report they have no interest in him. i think that's unfair, and for the record I'm a dog lover

I agree it's so unfair, I feel so sorry for him I may not sleep at night, the poor guy, he should be able to make millions playing a game, just because of a few tiny wittle trangsgressions people are so mean, not his fault it was his upbringing etc etc and what's with all the comparing one POS to another as if putting one above the other means anything wtf? Henry is a loser POS, Vick is a loser POS - do people compare 2 turds and debate which makes them more nauseous too?

 

[CaGamblers]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=104831602

Nice article written by Frank Deford, acclaimed sports writer

 

[JohnnyU]

It's been 8 days since his reinstatement and all I hear are the teams who aren't interested in Vick.

 

[Mr. Peterson]

It's been 8 days since his reinstatement and all I hear are the teams who aren't interested in Vick.

Were you around for all the New England buzz? I hope he doesn't get signed by anyone. He's trash.

 

[JohnnyU]

It's been 8 days since his reinstatement and all I hear are the teams who aren't interested in Vick.

Were you around for all the New England buzz? I hope he doesn't get signed by anyone. He's trash.

Any buzz has been shot down by the owner of all teams mentioned.

 

[kface]

hopefully he has....

 

[Adebisi]

It's been 8 days since his reinstatement and all I hear are the teams who aren't interested in Vick.

He claimed that he was close to a deal a few days ago. I haven't heard anything since.ETA: Except for the Patriots buzz, which turned out to be false.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

He claimed that he was close to a deal a few days ago.

I don't know to break this to everyone, but he's a liar.

 

[Phurfur]

Sure looking that way. Teams are quick to report they have no interest in him. i think that's unfair, and for the record I'm a dog lover

I agree, people should be forced to hire people with no character, morals or values.

 

[JohnnyU]

Sure looking that way. Teams are quick to report they have no interest in him. i think that's unfair, and for the record I'm a dog lover

I agree, people should be forced to hire people with no character, morals or values.

I don't think teams should be forced to hire him. I guess he's bad for business

 

[lod01]

He's a waste of a roster space and everyone knows it. Maybe Jerry Porter and David Boston are also blackballed. No, they suck too.

 

[achemen]

I'm sure ther are lots of dog killers out there that can run fast and have people catch 53% of the balls they throw. I feel sorry for them. Not being able to play in the NFL, it's sad really.