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How's your housing market? (2 Viewers)

Slowed down considerably in Colorado but still seeing things go pending, high end is in better shape than the low end. It just may take a few weeks to a month to go under contract, which is still considered a sellers market. Inventory is double what it was a year ago, which once again historically is still a sellers market and well below levels 4 or 5 years ago. The days of selling first weekend and people waiving everything like idiots are over and that’s a good thing.

IMO though, the Fed is just delaying demand for now with the high interest rates. People are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if rates come down, inflation abates or if there is a recession. In my area the housing market always seasonally slows to a crawl after July 4th as well. If the Fed tames inflation and rates come back down or even just stabilize a bit things will heat right back up again IMO. New building is drying up too which just amplifies the overall housing shortage long term as well. Only a heavy recession with job loss/unemployment is going to really curtail long-term demand, IMO. But something has to be figured out in regards to the supply issue, idk if that will be Boomers dying off or what but it’s hard to see anything obvious coming right now that will markedly increase supply in many under built markets.

 
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Do you guys think this is higher rates, risk of recession, or something else?

I'm not sad that things have slowed way down.  Prices were on a crazy run.
Rates are a big part of it. Also...

The overheated market just running it's course. Nothing can keep that trajectory. 
Stimulus money having run through the system. 
Inflation.
Expectation of values decreasing. 
More inventory from new builds (most built since 2006)

 

 
Burn Baybee Burn

Let's get that 20-30% Haircut across the board 🔥
I don't think that will happen, at least nationally speaking. The supply and demand balance and inflation will hedge against it. RE is always localz so there may be some local drops like this. 

Also... if it did, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It would be because of an economic meltdown. A 20-30% would mean instead of people being able to sell if they got in trouble, they would be looking at foreclosures instead. 

I am not sure that is something to cheerlead. 

 
I have friends that closed on their place like 6 weeks ago and just listed their old house at a fair price.  I don't think they've gotten much love.

They will likely rent out their old home is it doesn't move soon.


Music to my ears.  It's been about a decade since that spigot was open for my business.  

 
The house next door to me sold about two months ago.  It was a basket case rental that the previous owners put as little as possible into for the 13+ years that I have lived here. The new owner went 30k over asking, and immediately upon close, gutted the place down to the studs and started preparing for a 450 sqft room addition.

He's a nice guy and I feel bad for him.  He's going to be 100k+ underwater in a year.

 
Slowed down considerably in Colorado but still seeing things go pending, high end is in better shape than the low end. It just may take a few weeks to a month to go under contract, which is still considered a sellers market. Inventory is double what it was a year ago, which once again historically is still a sellers market and well below levels 4 or 5 years ago. The days of selling first weekend and people waiving everything like idiots are over and that’s a good thing.

IMO though, the Fed is just delaying demand for now with the high interest rates. People are sitting on the sidelines waiting to see if rates come down, inflation abates or if there is a recession. In my area the housing market always seasonally slows to a crawl after July 4th as well. If the Fed tames inflation and rates come back down or even just stabilize a bit things will heat right back up again IMO. New building is drying up too which just amplifies the overall housing shortage long term as well. Only a heavy recession with job loss/unemployment is going to really curtail long-term demand, IMO. But something has to be figured out in regards to the supply issue, idk if that will be Boomers dying off or what but it’s hard to see anything obvious coming right now that will markedly increase supply in many under built markets.
Boomers dying off. Thanks posty

 
After my apartment lease is up on March 31st, 2023, I've decided I'm moving back Downtown Milwaukee.  My debate is to keep renting an Apartment or look to purchase a Condo.

- If I rented I'd be doing more of the luxury apartment route with all the amenities (likely in the $2,500-$2,700 per month rent).   

- If I purchased a condo, I'd likely want to get something in the $250K-$300K area (ideally on the lower end that needs some aesthetic work that I could put some money into it and make my own design.  I am handy so would do most of the work on my own)

Any misc. thoughts or advice on things to think about or what would be my best route come March of next year?

 
FairWarning said:
The Bay Area has to be a concern for many with some downsizing. In Big Tech.
As long as salaries can support living here, people will want to live here. I'm heavily leveraged, property-wise, and I'm not worried a bit. There's just not enough inventory to support the demand.

 
FairWarning said:
The Bay Area has to be a concern for many with some downsizing. In Big Tech.
I was lucky to get a small 1 bedroom apt by Union Square for $1,200/month. Rent in SF has come down somewhat but I don't know if the properties have actually depreciated.

 
I was lucky to get a small 1 bedroom apt by Union Square for $1,200/month. Rent in SF has come down somewhat but I don't know if the properties have actually depreciated.
$1,200, that's great for downtown SF. Is there off street parking? My daughter is paying about $2,600 for a 1BR in Soma Square Apts for a lease signed in Dec 2021. $300 more for parking, i believe, but they haven't charged since she just got a car in May. With the pandemic discount in Dec 2020, it averaged about 2,000 a month. Their website says a 1BR is $2,900+. 

 
$1,200, that's great for downtown SF. Is there off street parking? My daughter is paying about $2,600 for a 1BR in Soma Square Apts for a lease signed in Dec 2021. $300 more for parking, i believe, but they haven't charged since she just got a car in May. With the pandemic discount in Dec 2020, it averaged about 2,000 a month. Their website says a 1BR is $2,900+. 
No off street parking but I walk everywhere and don't have a car.  The building where I live is very old and my cost is low because it is a temporary situation but I have seen other good deals.  I really like the location and hope to stay nearby next year.  My place is so quiet, I never have any sleep disturbances, yet I'm only 8 blocks away from great free food in the Tenderloin.  Modern apartment complexs charge a premium and even the older ones like mine are likely more than what I'm currently paying.  I just hope to find another good deal when the time comes. 

 
After my apartment lease is up on March 31st, 2023, I've decided I'm moving back Downtown Milwaukee.  My debate is to keep renting an Apartment or look to purchase a Condo.

- If I rented I'd be doing more of the luxury apartment route with all the amenities (likely in the $2,500-$2,700 per month rent).   

- If I purchased a condo, I'd likely want to get something in the $250K-$300K area (ideally on the lower end that needs some aesthetic work that I could put some money into it and make my own design.  I am handy so would do most of the work on my own)

Any misc. thoughts or advice on things to think about or what would be my best route come March of next year?
So like downtown downtown or east side/riverwest? 3rd Ward perhaps?

 
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Unless it's something extraordinary, it's just sitting here. At a stalemate type spot. Sellers don't want to cut prices but buyers aren't buying where it's at now. 

 
Unless it's something extraordinary, it's just sitting here. At a stalemate type spot. Sellers don't want to cut prices but buyers aren't buying where it's at now. 
I'm seeing 10x more price reductions than ever before.  They usually drive more traffic into a home and in many cases that just isn't happening. 

I had a listing go live Wednesday night at 475k.  Comps are 475k to 525k and the home compared to the 525k with many recent upgrades.  Not a showing yet.  

 
Curious how it is looking out there for folks. Can certainly see some softness in the market in Charlotte as we're starting up a search for a larger place.
 
Our neighborhood was down slightly for about two months but then two houses just had blowout prices this past week so I guess that’s over.
 
Curious how it is looking out there for folks. Can certainly see some softness in the market in Charlotte as we're starting up a search for a larger place.
Shoot me a DM, I got something I can add you to that will help you see this EXACT stuff... hot/cold of the specific areas.... to assist in your shopping.
 
My Cousin built our house 3 years ago. He called me this week to let me know that he just gave a bid to build a house very similar to mine and it came out 100K more that it cost to build ours.
 
Curious how it is looking out there for folks. Can certainly see some softness in the market in Charlotte as we're starting up a search for a larger place.
If you need a realtor, my wife is pretty awesome. She works mostly in South Charlotte / Ballantyne / Ft Mill / Indian Land areas with the Hellen Adams group.
 
My Cousin built our house 3 years ago. He called me this week to let me know that he just gave a bid to build a house very similar to mine and it came out 100K more that it cost to build ours.
Was there some family discount? Regardless... yea, all materials have risen in cost. I would guess outstripping even the high inflation rates we have seen.
 
My Cousin built our house 3 years ago. He called me this week to let me know that he just gave a bid to build a house very similar to mine and it came out 100K more that it cost to build ours.
Was there some family discount? Regardless... yea, all materials have risen in cost. I would guess outstripping even the high inflation rates we have seen.

Very minimal discount. He completely finished the garage and slight on labor but other than that no.
 
Curious how it is looking out there for folks. Can certainly see some softness in the market in Charlotte as we're starting up a search for a larger place.
If you need a realtor, my wife is pretty awesome. She works mostly in South Charlotte / Ballantyne / Ft Mill / Indian Land areas with the Hellen Adams group.
We are looking in those areas on the NC side, but have been working with the same realtor for 7ish years off and on. My employer seems pretty indifferent to whether I work Uptown or in Ballantyne so trying to get some more space as our son starts to get more mobile.
 
Curious how it is looking out there for folks. Can certainly see some softness in the market in Charlotte as we're starting up a search for a larger place.
If you need a realtor, my wife is pretty awesome. She works mostly in South Charlotte / Ballantyne / Ft Mill / Indian Land areas with the Hellen Adams group.
We are looking in those areas on the NC side, but have been working with the same realtor for 7ish years off and on. My employer seems pretty indifferent to whether I work Uptown or in Ballantyne so trying to get some more space as our son starts to get more mobile.
Good luck with your search! It's a nice area, growing fast.
 
Curious how it is looking out there for folks. Can certainly see some softness in the market in Charlotte as we're starting up a search for a larger place.
If you need a realtor, my wife is pretty awesome. She works mostly in South Charlotte / Ballantyne / Ft Mill / Indian Land areas with the Hellen Adams group.
We are looking in those areas on the NC side, but have been working with the same realtor for 7ish years off and on. My employer seems pretty indifferent to whether I work Uptown or in Ballantyne so trying to get some more space as our son starts to get more mobile.
You’re on my side then, same with @ConstruxBoy. Union County schools are pretty solid with the Cuthbertson, Weddington and Marvin schools as the top ones. Some serious keeping up with the Jones’! Taxes aren’t bad at all outside of Mecklenburg, but house prices have jumped a lot after a decade of no real increase from the financial crisis.
 

Home builders will help save America’s sluggish housing market, says Fannie Mae. Now for the bad news.

The U.S. housing sector is back in full swing and builders are best positioned to ride the wave, Fannie Mae’s economists say.

The housing market went into a recession at the end of 2022, after mortgage rates surged from 4% to 7%, making homeownership more expensive, and depressing home sales. Since then, housing has mostly rebounded, but with the housing market seriously short of homes for sale as homeowners hold out on selling, the sector is still facing a fundamental supply-and-demand problem.

The key players poised to reap the benefits of — and permanently fix — this imbalance are home builders, according to two economists at mortgage-financing giant Fannie Mae. The government-owned enterprise purchases mortgage loans from lenders and either holds them on their books, or packages them into mortgage-backed securities — and sells them to the broader market.

“If they get to that level, that will help absorb current demand pretty well,” Doug Duncan, chief economist at Fannie Mae, told MarketWatch. And now for the bad news. “The question is catching up, and we think that will take two or three years,” he added.

“So it looks to us like a pretty good environment for builders for some time,” Duncan said.

Builders have ramped up new construction on homes. In June, builders were on track to complete construction of 1.47 million if they continue at the same pace for the rest of the year.

A decade of underbuilding

A decade of underbuilding is one reason why the U.S. is facing such a shortfall in housing supply, Duncan explained.

According to Realtor.com, the U.S. is short of 6.5 million single-family homes. Realtor.com looked at household formation between 2012 and 2022, housing starts, and home sales.

(Realtor.com is operated by News Corp subsidiary Move Inc., and MarketWatch is a unit of Dow Jones, also a subsidiary of News Corp. )

During the Great Recession from 2007 to 2009, builders sharply pulled back on new-home construction. Housing starts fell from an annual rate of 2.27 million in June 2006 to 478,000 in April 2009 — a fall of nearly 80%, as seen in the chart below which spans from 2006 to 2013.

With rising delinquencies and foreclosures, production continued at that low level for a few more years, and builders adjusted to lower demand by downsizing, Duncan explained.

“At the same time, the millennials were coming of age and they are a bigger population group than the boomers,” Duncan added. Meanwhile, he said, “production had sort of gone on idle.”

In the early 2010s, that demand began to pick up and “it became clear to us that there was going to be a supply problem,” he added. “So the housing market has been behind in supply already for the better part of a decade.”

The pandemic hurt production even further, as builders pulled back in the face of uncertain demand, as well as to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

But their doubts about home-buying demand quickly faded. With the U.S. Federal Reserve lowering interest rates, mortgage rates plummeted and home buying surged. During the same period in July 2021, the 30-year was averaging at 2.8%, according to data from Freddie Mac

The opportunity for builders became even greater post-pandemic, as rates rose.

For many homeowners who jumped at the opportunity to buy during the pandemic, current rates make the idea of selling — and buying — unthinkable.

The pandemic also pushed some of these homeowners to embrace remote work, said Mark Palim, deputy chief economist at Fannie Mae.

For many homeowners who jumped at the opportunity to buy during the pandemic, current rates make the idea of selling — and buying — unthinkable.

“You’ve had a significant change in how people work, and where they work,” he added. “People adjusted their housing situation to reflect that. And they don’t need to adjust it again.”

So the supply of previously-owned houses for sale is at a record lows as people hold on to their homes.

For builders, that helps business: In May, new homes formed 31% of the total number of homes for sale, according to the National Association of Home Builders. Typically, that share is only about 10% to 15%.

Sales of newly built homes in the U.S. fell in June, as demand cooled after a jump the previous month, the Commerce Department reported Wednesday. U.S. new-home sales fell 2.5% to an annual rate of 697,000 in June, from a revised 715,000 in the prior month,

Still, builders are also able to offer incentives to aspiring homeowners to help them buy a home, a tactic that most homeowners may not have at their disposal.

D. R. Horton’s co-chief operating officer, Mike Murray, said in its third-quarter earnings call last week that the company had “increased our use of incentives and reduced the sizes of our homes to provide better affordability to homebuyers.” The company is one of the largest home builders in the U.S.

And though “home prices and incentives have begun to stabilize, we expect to continue utilizing a higher level of incentives as compared to last year,” he added.

Murray’s co-COO, Paul Romanowski, said on the same call that the rate buydown in particular has been “one of our most effective incentives.” A rate buydown is when a mortgage lender or home builder offers a lower rate in the first few years of repayment, after which they permanently reset to a higher rate. The seller or a builder pays a sum of money upfront to “buy the rate down” at the start of the payment period.

But both economists said that they believe the lock-in effect of high mortgage rates discouraging homeowners to sell will fade over time, due to circumstances in life. People may need to sell their home and relocate for a new job opportunity, or if they are expanding their family, or downsizing as they approach retirement.

For the time being, however, home buyers should not expect relief to come in the form of lower mortgage rates, the economists said.

“We don’t see rates coming down very far,” Duncan stated. In its July housing forecast, Fannie Mae said it expected the 30-year mortgage to end the fourth quarter of 2023 at 6.6%, and in the fourth quarter of 2024 at 5.9%.
 

Starter Homes Cost 45% More Than They Did Pre-Pandemic, Pricing Out Many First-Time Buyers​


In order for a first-time homebuyer to afford a typical starter home in the U.S., they must earn about $64,500—an increase of 13% from a year ago, in large part because of higher mortgage rates, fewer listings and higher home prices, according to a new study from Redfin.

Starter home prices continue to rise because of the low housing inventory—new listings for starter homes fell 23% from last June, marking the biggest decline since March 2020—which leads to competition and price gouging for the houses that do go to market, Redfin analysts said.

The median starter home price in June was $242,000—a 2.1% increase from last year and up more than 45% since the pandemic.
The average wages in the U.S. rose 4.4% since last year and about 20% compared to before the pandemic, but Redfin analysts said the increases aren’t “nearly enough to make up for the jump in monthly mortgage payments” new homebuyers would face, which increased to about $1,610—almost double what it was before Covid-19—this year.
Redfin calculated the annual income needed to afford a starter home by the standard rule that a home is “affordable” if the buyer taking out a mortgage spends less than 30% of their income on a housing payment.
Prices vary significantly region to region: California starter homes have the highest median prices, including $925,000 in San Jose and $680,000 in Anaheim, while the Rust Belt has the lowest, with the median in Detroit being $60,000 and $100,000 in Pittsburgh.

Senior Redfin economist Sheharyar Bokhari said the fact that the most affordable homes aren’t affordable to people with lower budgets is “locking many Americans out of the housing market altogether, preventing them from building equity and ultimately building lasting wealth … That could lead to the wealth gap in this country becoming even more drastic.”

There were just three U.S. metros where buyers needed less income than the previous year to buy a starter home: San Francisco, Austin and Phoenix. In San Francisco, a homebuyer needs to earn $241,200—down 4.5%—to afford a standard starter home; in Austin buyers need to earn $92,000—down 3.3%—and the salary needed in Phoenix dropped 1% to $86,100.

28%. That’s how much more income compared to last year that first-time homebuyers in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, need—an annual income of $58,300—to buy a starter house, which is going for a median price of $220,000 in the city. Miami saw the next-largest increase in necessary income—25%—and buyers in Newark, New Jersey, need 21% more income than last year.
 
Lack of supply really buoying things here, if priced right you can get multiple offers and sell quick. Listed a house a few weeks ago, 3 offers same weekend, 2 of them cash and short close. Have even seen some houses that come on definitely overpriced do like one price drop and then usually get snatched up.

Saw the crappiest dang flip house ever still go under contract which blew my mind, horribly cut corners and stupid stuff like literally gluing two single vanities together to make a double vanity :smh: Those buyers are gonna regret that purchase eventually, one of the cheapest and crappily done flips I’ve ever seen so you know they cut a lot of corners that will bite you in a year or two.
 
This is like some pre ww2 stuff.


Somebody needs to just start mashing out spec houses. No more more picking out the cabinets, just build them fast and sell them faster.
 
This is like some pre ww2 stuff.


Somebody needs to just start mashing out spec houses. No more more picking out the cabinets, just build them fast and sell them faster.
I think there's a lack of space in many places. Small towns might ride that boom if employers will continue to allow virtual jobs or at least hybrid.
 
Somebody needs to just start mashing out spec houses. No more more picking out the cabinets, just build them fast and sell them faster.
Have two GCs in my family. This is all they do now.
They are both done with dealing with homeowners. I cannot even believe the stories they tell me.
I've flipped probably 50 houses. Never built one from the ground up. The main reason I flip houses at this point is so I don't have to deal with homeowners. It's not without risk though. I recently had a 2 bedroom I bought for 40k. But I ended up putting 90k into it. I tried to sell for 180 and got on offer that fell through and nothing else. So now I'm renting for a year or two for $1400 per month. I live in a rural town though in northern Michigan. Our market cooled considerably.
 
We have a LOT of apartments recently built around here. Apparently second largest growth in the nation just behind Colorado Springs. In theory that should keep less expensive housing down I’d think, but:

Year-over-year listings increase: 319%
Median home list price: $389,800
Huntsville, located in the northern end of Alabama near the Tennessee border, has thrived in recent years, due in large part to its role as a regional technology hub and for its aerospace industry.

It’s home to NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center and the famous children’s Space Camp. Boeing, Raytheon, and Northrop Grumman also have a presence there.

It’s also another place where the number of homes available for sale has more than quadrupled. It went from a little over 350 in January 2022 to more than 1,500 in January 2023.

Like almost all the cities on this list, Huntsville’s home prices are still up over this time last year, by about 5%, at $389,800 in January 2023. But homes are now taking longer to sell.

A year ago, the median listing spent 32 days on the market, far below the national figure at the time of 62 days. Now it’s up to 69 days, more than doubling how long a seller should expect to wait before selling.

It looks like my house value continues to rise, we bought just 7 years ago with zero down and now our equity is equal to our remaining 30 year mortgage. I’m not sure if we could afford our own house now, as PI would be more than 3x ($3600 compared to $1150) with current prevailing rates.
It’s crazy but we won’t move for another decade as our youngest enters third grade next week and our school system is among the top 50 in the nation.
I just hope the area stays in demand when we want to sell.
 
Somebody needs to just start mashing out spec houses. No more more picking out the cabinets, just build them fast and sell them faster.
Have two GCs in my family. This is all they do now.
They are both done with dealing with homeowners. I cannot even believe the stories they tell me.
In today's environment, there is no reason to build for a homeowner.... build to put it on market so you don't deal with the homeowner. This is a very unusual time in RE though so I am not sure how long doing that will work but it certainly will now.
 

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