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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Boston
Footballguy
Real important that the kid can deal with media...you are a Philly fan so you know that in media markets like Boston and Philly there is a lot of room for error and distraction if a star player can not handle the heat (or the fans turn on him)...one of the most underrated aspects of Brady is how he has almost flawlessly dealt with the media for 20 years...I am very biased about Jones but I really believe Jones is a perfect fit for the Pats and BB both on and off the field.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I like all those guys, but they will probably all be off the board by the time they pick.
If I had to guess (and guys I think are fits), they would take Trevon Moehrig, S, TCU ; Jabril Cox, ILB, LSU; or Rondale Moore, WR, Purdue.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Great news. Definitely excited to see one of those top 5 QBs and not have it cost even a penny more than that original draft spot. What's the over/under on Jones beating out Cam for the week 1 start?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
I would be shocked if he is not starting at some point this year...if it is 2020 Cam then it will be sooner rather than later.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree Marshall would help but all the talk I have seen is NE is probably looking for the next Welker / Edelman. Marshall seems more like a faster version of Harry than a slot candidate.
Sorry. Yes I celebrated!
I was/am happy the Pats made a pick. And one that actually made sense!
Boston
Footballguy
It makes sense ...Gilmore is still a question mark and not sure if they want to pay JC Jackson after this year.
He was considered the most play ready QB in the draft. I think he will start relatively early.
Boston
Footballguy
I haven't heard that about looking for a slot, where are you hearing that? Will be interesting with that position since you now have two starting TEs so it changes the complexion of the offense.
Deamon
Footballguy
Deamon
Footballguy
I'd say both are unlikely. He'll prob be starting sometime between week 3 and 12.
Unless cam is winning. I can't see Bill doing what Miami did and benching a qb that has won a bunch of games in a row.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Mostly from beat guys. Back in the day even with two TEs, they used Welker a ton (Gronk and Psycho Killer). The draft is also said to be comprised of smaller receivers and potential slot candidate types. Maybe the media guys are just speculating.
The other thing to consider about the team overall is that multiple players have either short-term deals or have longer term contracts that are unlikely to be played out (guys will either have to get extended / restructure or will be released). I guess I am saying they could pivot the offense to something else soon.
Who knows how much and how they will use Meyers this season.
I agree they have been lacking a true #1. Cooks could have been that but they moved on quickly. Edleman was a good possession receiver and ran some outside routes but he really wasn't the iconic big framed outside receiver. Moss was really the last guy that fit that bill.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think we may be underestimating the man crush BB has on Cam. If I had to guess, people will be clamoring for Jones for awhile before Bill is ready to pass the torch. Brady sat a year before starting. Cassel sat three years before he was pressed into starting. Jimmy G sat for 2 years before he had to start. When Brissett had to be an emergency starter as a rookie, they gave him the most watered-down, vanilla playbook known to mankind to run.
There may be a couple of exceptions at RB or on the OL or DL, but BB historically has usually taken his time in getting rookies on the field. He could very well change that when it involves a QB.
At this point, I think Newton will have to play himself out of the starting job (more so than Jones winning the job in practice). For some reason, Bill seems to think that Newton offers more than the rest of us do . . . and it almost seems like he owes it to Cam to give him a wide berth and continue to let him start.
Deamon
Footballguy
I guess we just don't have any precedent. Bill has never drafted a QB this high before so he might change a little bit. But you might be right, he might groom him very slowly. A lot will have to do on how Cam is playing obviously.
Boston
Footballguy
It is spot on using the trade value chart... https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp
520. Vs. 521.4
Dynasty
Footballguy
Intuitively, it does seem like a lot.
But, I trust the draft charts.
Those high 2nd round players are usually expected to be starters right away. 4th round picks are just one round away from where Belichick takes kickers and long snappers.
Bill giving a glimpse into the Patriots grading system for the draft. Must be getting soft in his old age.
https://nesn.com/2021/05/bill-belichick-shares-fascinating-insight-into-patriots-draft-grading-system/
Transcript from his video conference after day two.
“Not trying to be evasive about the grading and all that, but I would just say that we don’t grade players like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. That’s just not the way we do it. We use a combination of numbers, letters, colors, and those things all have different meanings depending upon what they would indicate about the player’s circumstances or situation or whatever it is that involved the players. And all the players are different, and a lot of them — you know, in the end, there really aren’t that many of them that come to a school, play their career there and leave. There’s things that happen in between and a variety of circumstances, and so we have ways to identify those.
“So sometimes, the color’s going override the number; sometimes, the letter is going override the numbers or the colors and so forth. And so it’s not, you know, this guy’s at an 85 and this guy’s at an 83. It just doesn’t work like that. There’s a number, a color, possibly a letter or letters that go with those players, and those things could all — depending upon what they represent — could all override something else that’s a part of the grade. So it’s just really the way we identify the player and tag the player is one that helps us classify.
“It’s just too hard to generalize and give a player an 85 grade or whatever and then — like, what does that mean? But if you can tag that grade — that number grade, whatever it is — with something that would indicate other things regarding injuries or how many schools he’s been to or whether he was a transfer or if he came out early or if he switched positions or so forth and so on, played at a lower level of competition. I mean, there’s dozens of things here that we could talk about. It becomes a pretty complex scale.
“So not trying to ignore with him what it is, but it would be impossible for me to sit here and explain the grade scale and how it works and interacts and all that. That takes, honestly, you know, months of, I would say, understanding between the scouting department and working through a lot of different situations to really be able to utilize it effectively so we can categorize players in the right, in what we feel is the right fashion.
“Not saying it’s right, but we do it so that we can identify things and have ways to work through players and their situations to try to have as fair and as good an evaluation on them as we can.”
https://nesn.com/2021/05/bill-belichick-shares-fascinating-insight-into-patriots-draft-grading-system/
Transcript from his video conference after day two.
“Not trying to be evasive about the grading and all that, but I would just say that we don’t grade players like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. That’s just not the way we do it. We use a combination of numbers, letters, colors, and those things all have different meanings depending upon what they would indicate about the player’s circumstances or situation or whatever it is that involved the players. And all the players are different, and a lot of them — you know, in the end, there really aren’t that many of them that come to a school, play their career there and leave. There’s things that happen in between and a variety of circumstances, and so we have ways to identify those.
“So sometimes, the color’s going override the number; sometimes, the letter is going override the numbers or the colors and so forth. And so it’s not, you know, this guy’s at an 85 and this guy’s at an 83. It just doesn’t work like that. There’s a number, a color, possibly a letter or letters that go with those players, and those things could all — depending upon what they represent — could all override something else that’s a part of the grade. So it’s just really the way we identify the player and tag the player is one that helps us classify.
“It’s just too hard to generalize and give a player an 85 grade or whatever and then — like, what does that mean? But if you can tag that grade — that number grade, whatever it is — with something that would indicate other things regarding injuries or how many schools he’s been to or whether he was a transfer or if he came out early or if he switched positions or so forth and so on, played at a lower level of competition. I mean, there’s dozens of things here that we could talk about. It becomes a pretty complex scale.
“So not trying to ignore with him what it is, but it would be impossible for me to sit here and explain the grade scale and how it works and interacts and all that. That takes, honestly, you know, months of, I would say, understanding between the scouting department and working through a lot of different situations to really be able to utilize it effectively so we can categorize players in the right, in what we feel is the right fashion.
“Not saying it’s right, but we do it so that we can identify things and have ways to work through players and their situations to try to have as fair and as good an evaluation on them as we can.”
Deamon
Footballguy
This year is a bit different. With so little tape on guys, and no combine, there's a lot of players slipping through the cracks. Late round picks this year have a lot of potential to be very very valuable. They seemed like they gave up too much to move up those 8 spots, but damn did they get a good player. Love the Pats' draft this year overall.
Boston
Footballguy
When it's a topic he wants to talk about he is the most interesting guy to listen to in football.
Bossman
Footballguy
It's not always just equal value when trading picks...
I've got to imagine there was at least one other team in on the bidding for that pick / player.
Pats had the ammo to out bid the other gm's. Imagine if the Bills were the other team bidding for that pick/ Barmore.
Seems like it was worth it to me.
Boston
Footballguy
If the Pats had a first round grade on him (which is very possible) it was very much worth it...that front 7 looks like it could be vastly improved from last season with all these additions...highlights of the Perkins kid remind me of Trey Flowers.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I saw that that is probably not likely to be his actual number. Just a prop for a photo opp. His college number was 10.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
NE has a decent amount of players only signed through this year . . .
Stephon Gilmore, J.C. Jackson, Devin McCourtey, Adrian Phillips, Dont'a Hightower
Trent Brown, Isaiah Wynn (will likely have 5th year option picked up), Ted Karras
Sony Micheal (unlikely to have his 5th year options picked up), James White, Jakobi Meyers
At this point, without another WR signed or drafted, and apparently without a team willing to give much in a trade, perhaps we will get another season of N'Keal Harry in a Patriots uniform.
I have seen and heard that Gilmore is still disgruntled and has indicated he really isn't all that interested in playing for $7 million this year. I guess he forgot about the $40M they guaranteed him upfront (with $18M of it at signing). They will either have to extend him or do what they did last year and just give him an extra $5 million. The problem for the Pats is he already carries a $16.2M cap charge.
Stephon Gilmore, J.C. Jackson, Devin McCourtey, Adrian Phillips, Dont'a Hightower
Trent Brown, Isaiah Wynn (will likely have 5th year option picked up), Ted Karras
Sony Micheal (unlikely to have his 5th year options picked up), James White, Jakobi Meyers
At this point, without another WR signed or drafted, and apparently without a team willing to give much in a trade, perhaps we will get another season of N'Keal Harry in a Patriots uniform.
I have seen and heard that Gilmore is still disgruntled and has indicated he really isn't all that interested in playing for $7 million this year. I guess he forgot about the $40M they guaranteed him upfront (with $18M of it at signing). They will either have to extend him or do what they did last year and just give him an extra $5 million. The problem for the Pats is he already carries a $16.2M cap charge.
Most people did have first round grade on him. For example, this list from pff has him at 12th. https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2021
They have Perkins at 43, so I guess getting him actually at 96 is another great pick.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The funny part about places grading draft picks is they usually make no sense. NE took both of their Day 2 picks way latter than they were projected. And most places gave NE in the B range.
Same thing in the first round. SF traded a boatload of picks for Lance and got an A+. NE didn’t move at all and got Jones and earned a B.
I get it. None of that matters. It’s all just click bait. But when the same evaluating organization says you picked a played 25-50 picks later than they ranked someone and doesn’t give that team an A grade, I find that hard to give them much credibility.
Same thing in the first round. SF traded a boatload of picks for Lance and got an A+. NE didn’t move at all and got Jones and earned a B.
I get it. None of that matters. It’s all just click bait. But when the same evaluating organization says you picked a played 25-50 picks later than they ranked someone and doesn’t give that team an A grade, I find that hard to give them much credibility.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
BPA...a playmaking RB like Carter or Gainwell wouldn't bother me one bit...I like Harris but he appears limited in the passing game, Sony is probably on his last year, White is not getting any younger and Taylor is still a complete unknown.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They could use DB, OL, WR, RB help (bonus points to guys that play ST). There are said to be plenty of depth at WR and CB in this draft. But BB will probably draft based on his Spidey sense and could go in any direction at this point.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
He is a north south bruiser. Imagine he is depth in case of injury. I was surprised with this pick since it seems like their needs were as you listed CB, OT. However, he did have a high pff grade. All four picks have a pff grade above 90. For whatever that is worth. He is evidently good in pass protection and can play special teams.
Boston
Footballguy
I like this pick...big horse that can run and catch...real intriguing but has had an odd path to this point...will probably be either a big piece of their backfield or out of the league in three years...interesting fit as Harris is a power guy and even though he's not big Sony kind of is...gotta believe this pick signals the end of Sony whether it's after this year or he gets dealt.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/rhamondre-stevenson/32005354-4570-3131-4f2a-53760868c1d8
I was thinking there goes Bolden(assuming he is still on the team). Over the cap shows they can save 1.5 million but have a 0.5 million cap hit if they cut Bolden. Sony actually seemed better to me when he got in last season.