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It was a tremendous raid. (1 Viewer)

culdeus said:
What about the theory they give trump immunity to testify against his lawyers? This is a watercolor theory half baked from some maga types. Theory here is these lawyers get busthrown hard.
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He'll throw them under the bus pretty soon here.
 
Biff84 said:
Rubiobot said:
Biff84 said:
timschochet said:
Biff84 said:
sho nuff said:
Amused to Death said:
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Should be safe for the remaining apologists to get off the bandwagon now. When you've lost Steve Doocy...
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Amazing, and then Kristie Noam says "we really don't know what's in there", referring to the TS/SCI documents. Why can't people just come out and condemn this guy? How hard is it to just say Trump was wrong and I support the investigation? Oh, and would it be too much to ask to just let the FBI do their job? Stop the rhetoric for once.
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Until enough up top do...its political suicide for some (see Liz Cheney).
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Absolutely. When it happens, it won’t be a trickle, it will be a full exodus. I’d guess that a strong majority in the GOP are just waiting for the shoe to drop and they will be completely off the Trump train. Post-midterms if the results are disappointing would be a likely off-ramp. They will be looking to make a clean break and transition to Desantis without them going head-to-head. An indictment after the elections would be a perfect splitting point.
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Disagree. I don’t think it will ever be a full exodus so long as Trump is alive.

Trump to Republicans is the same as Al Davis was to Raider fans.
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There will be loyalists that will never leave his side, no doubt. But party leadership, traditional Republicans, most of the Senators, they’re getting out if they see a window of opportunity. If the Trump endorsed candidates bomb in November, they’re not going to want his name attached except for people whose entire career is attached to him.
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For those that do...guess who will be primaried the next time they run?
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It depends on if they can make a clean break. The nightmare scenario would be they try to make a break from Trump and he continues to challenge them. If the primary ends up Trump vs Desantis, Trump will turn his supporters against Ron and even if he gets the nomination Trump and his strongest supporters won’t be behind him.

Same with congressional primaries. If Trump steps aside, they may be safe but if he is still fighting the ultra MAGA candidates will win.
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Agreed. If Trump runs then he is going to be the nominee because anyone going against him risks excommunication from the GOP.
 
culdeus said:
What about the theory they give trump immunity to testify against his lawyers? This is a watercolor theory half baked from some maga types. Theory here is these lawyers get busthrown hard.
Click to expand...
Bobb was in the hotel war room on 1/6. She was heavily involved in the AZ fraudit, covering and helping fund it. She’s got information in multiple investigations, she’d be the one offered immunity.

It’s tough to imagine a scenario where Trump would be offered any short of immunity. It would need to be a bigger fish, not a lawyer working under his authority.
 
Dickies said:
timschochet said:
I still don’t think he will be indicted. I don’t have any logical position to argue that he won’t; he certainly should be. It’s clear that he committed a number of serious crimes here including (once again) obstruction of Justice.

But I just can’t see the DOJ pulling the trigger…
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We've heard in hear by folks that until he gets indicted this is all just a big nothingburger. Of course if he were to be indicted, these same people will claim it's a witch hunt.
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For me the easiest way to view the whole saga is that the DoJ believed he had important classified documents and they weren't satisfied with the explanation they were getting, so they got a search warrant and now they have the documents back. All is well, even if a few eggs were broken along the way. This could be the end of it.
 
Caveman33 said:
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Should be safe for the remaining apologists to get off the bandwagon now. When you've lost Steve Doocy...
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The brainwashing is mindboggling but to be fair to Doocy, I saw this clip a couple weeks ago where he was questioning the MAGA narrative https://youtu.be/fcFV8I-xx6Q?t=153
I know very little of Doocy's history but he looks open minded compared to the drones surrounding him.
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His brother is like the biggest White House press corps troll of all time.

Steve used to be a movie reviewer for NBC's DC affiliate when I was growing up.
 
CletiusMaximus said:
Dickies said:
timschochet said:
I still don’t think he will be indicted. I don’t have any logical position to argue that he won’t; he certainly should be. It’s clear that he committed a number of serious crimes here including (once again) obstruction of Justice.

But I just can’t see the DOJ pulling the trigger…
Click to expand...
We've heard in hear by folks that until he gets indicted this is all just a big nothingburger. Of course if he were to be indicted, these same people will claim it's a witch hunt.
Click to expand...

For me the easiest way to view the whole saga is that the DoJ believed he had important classified documents and they weren't satisfied with the explanation they were getting, so they got a search warrant and now they have the documents back. All is well, even if a few eggs were broken along the way. This could be the end of it.
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IMO that was the plan. But when Trump turned the GOP and his base against the DoJ and the FBI, you really can't let it go.
 
CletiusMaximus said:
For me the easiest way to view the whole saga is that the DoJ believed he had important classified documents and they weren't satisfied with the explanation they were getting, so they got a search warrant and now they have the documents back. All is well, even if a few eggs were broken along the way. This could be the end of it.
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Yes, this could be the end of it, and I would have been OK with it. But then he and his team lied, obstructed, and hid documents. I think that makes it much worse.

He needs to face some sort of consequence. No more free passes.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
On the law and the evidence, ignoring politics, prosecuting this seems like a slam dunk. If Trump isn't indicted for this, no former president will ever be indicted for anything.
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On the Politics side, my theory is that Garland doesn't want to prosecute Trump for anything related to January 6th. That would be much more messy politically and a much tougher case to win. This one fell into his lap and he probably sees it as an easy win. Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
 
Marauder said:
Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
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not good enough. Plus you leave the maga heads thinking it was all about him not running.

charge him with no jail time - which should eliminate him from office - I think
 
The Dude said:
Marauder said:
Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
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not good enough. Plus you leave the maga heads thinking it was all about him not running.

charge him with no jail time - which should eliminate him from office - I think
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elections are for voters to decide, not the DA. Plea deal with no running signals that the entire thing is political.

and, no...convicting him would not disqualify him for president. It would for other positions, but eligibility for president is clearly called out in the Constitution - natural born citizen, over 35, and resident for at least 14 years. That's it.
 
Normally I would not link to an Andrew McCarthy piece because, historically, he tends to gets a large percentage of his claims wrong.

But they are all wrong in the same direction: always more favorable to Trump, never less favorable, than reality.

So when Andrew McCarthy thinks that Trump will be indicted for obstruction and the charge will not be difficult to prove, I think that's bad news for Trump.

www.nationalreview.com

Why Yesterday’s DOJ Filing Suggests a Trump Indictment Is Coming | National Review

Former president Trump is likely to be charged with obstruction of justice and causing false statements to be made to investigators.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com
 
Marauder said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
On the law and the evidence, ignoring politics, prosecuting this seems like a slam dunk. If Trump isn't indicted for this, no former president will ever be indicted for anything.
Click to expand...
On the Politics side, my theory is that Garland doesn't want to prosecute Trump for anything related to January 6th. That would be much more messy politically and a much tougher case to win. This one fell into his lap and he probably sees it as an easy win. Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
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Such a clause likely wouldn't be enforceable on its face. Best route there is to obtain a felony conviction (which generally excludes somebody from holding public office).
 
Marauder said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
On the law and the evidence, ignoring politics, prosecuting this seems like a slam dunk. If Trump isn't indicted for this, no former president will ever be indicted for anything.
Click to expand...
On the Politics side, my theory is that Garland doesn't want to prosecute Trump for anything related to January 6th. That would be much more messy politically and a much tougher case to win. This one fell into his lap and he probably sees it as an easy win. Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
Click to expand...
If you plead guilty to a felony, you can't run for president ever again. Not sure about other positions.
 
Zow said:
Marauder said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
On the law and the evidence, ignoring politics, prosecuting this seems like a slam dunk. If Trump isn't indicted for this, no former president will ever be indicted for anything.
Click to expand...
On the Politics side, my theory is that Garland doesn't want to prosecute Trump for anything related to January 6th. That would be much more messy politically and a much tougher case to win. This one fell into his lap and he probably sees it as an easy win. Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
Click to expand...
Such a clause likely wouldn't be enforceable on its face. Best route there is to obtain a felony conviction (which generally excludes somebody from holding public office).
Click to expand...
I don't believe that's the case for President though, or at least there is some debate about this. As Moleculo pointed out above, unlike other public offices, the qualifications for President are spelled out in the Constitution.
 
Marauder said:
Zow said:
Marauder said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
On the law and the evidence, ignoring politics, prosecuting this seems like a slam dunk. If Trump isn't indicted for this, no former president will ever be indicted for anything.
Click to expand...
On the Politics side, my theory is that Garland doesn't want to prosecute Trump for anything related to January 6th. That would be much more messy politically and a much tougher case to win. This one fell into his lap and he probably sees it as an easy win. Maybe they can get a plea deal from Trump that will include an agreement that he won't run for any political office again.
Click to expand...
Such a clause likely wouldn't be enforceable on its face. Best route there is to obtain a felony conviction (which generally excludes somebody from holding public office).
Click to expand...
I don't believe that's the case for President though, or at least there is some debate about this. As Moleculo pointed out above, unlike other public offices, the qualifications for President are spelled out in the Constitution.
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Ah, could be.
 
Rubiobot said:
The Trump supporters here sure are quiet...I wonder why? :lol:
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Us conservatives ,not all Trump supporters ,have been watching the left have these ''we gotcha now '' parties for years . Personally ill watch until the dust settles. If everything goes as it has been we`ll simply chime in with ....''now what?''
 
Dickies said:
Witz said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1565086491847573504

Really not sure what more there is to say. He’s just admitted that he had this information.
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As if anyone thought that's exactly how the FBI found them. :lmao:
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Love the tweet "the old they were in a box and not on the floor defense."
That would have made a compelling photo if the has just taken a picture of the box. DJT wanted a master assigned but did want the DOJ arguing why one shouldn't be
 
ZADO said:
Rubiobot said:
The Trump supporters here sure are quiet...I wonder why? :lol:
Click to expand...
Us conservatives ,not all Trump supporters ,have been watching the left have these ''we gotcha now '' parties for years . Personally ill watch until the dust settles. If everything goes as it has been we`ll simply chime in with ....''now what?''
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DUDE --you of all people --they have ####### pictures. What's it gonna take?
 
JIslander said:
ZADO said:
Rubiobot said:
The Trump supporters here sure are quiet...I wonder why? :lol:
Click to expand...
Us conservatives ,not all Trump supporters ,have been watching the left have these ''we gotcha now '' parties for years . Personally ill watch until the dust settles. If everything goes as it has been we`ll simply chime in with ....''now what?''
Click to expand...
DUDE --you of all people --they have ####### pictures. What's it gonna take?
Click to expand...

A picture of Trump holding one of documents in his hand as he is putting another of the documents in a box…a look of surprise on his face as the flash goes off…

Pfft! Photoshopped!
 
JIslander said:
ZADO said:
Rubiobot said:
The Trump supporters here sure are quiet...I wonder why? :lol:
Click to expand...
Us conservatives ,not all Trump supporters ,have been watching the left have these ''we gotcha now '' parties for years . Personally ill watch until the dust settles. If everything goes as it has been we`ll simply chime in with ....''now what?''
Click to expand...
DUDE --you of all people --they have ####### pictures. What's it gonna take?
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And Trump literally just admitted he had the documents.
 
Biff84 said:
BeTheMatch said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
BeTheMatch said:
If you plead guilty to a felony, you can't run for president ever again.
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Why not?
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I thought that was the law. Evidently not. Wonderful.
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Not any felony but I do believe that one of crimes he is being investigated for - mishandling of government documents - does have the penalty preventing him from running for office.
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Doesn't overrule the constitution.
 
Stealthycat said:
moleculo said:
to be fair, most of the "getting carried away" is coming from Trumpland. I mean, who made the claim that the DoJ is weaponized? That this is the end of democracy? Threatening civil war over the FBI collecting artifacts that belong to the NARA?
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there are a lot of assumptions yes

IF there is hard evidence that the FBI gathered, then everyone on the right needs to eat crow, apologize, stop overreacting and consider in the future that not everything is a conspiracy

IF there isn't anything the FBI gathered then everyone on the left needs to eat crow, apologize and realize the DOJ was weaponized here in an unprecedented move and it was political and the big Fed Govt needs to be questioned at deep levels
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Are we there yet?
 
moleculo said:
Witz said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/AndrewFeinberg/status/1565086491847573504

Really not sure what more there is to say. He’s just admitted that he had this information.
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@Stealthycat - what do you think? Ready to concede the FBI had probable cause and the raid was justified yet?

Here is Trump himself validating top secret documents in his possession.
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I’m sensing a return to the classics. “He was joking, you just don’t understand his sense of humor”
 
ZADO said:
Us conservatives ,not all Trump supporters ,have been watching the left have these ''we gotcha now '' parties for years . Personally ill watch until the dust settles. If everything goes as it has been we`ll simply chime in with ....''now what?''
Click to expand...
Why would a non-MAGA conservative not be as angry as a liberal as it coming out that he had these documents lying around a country club?
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
JIslander said:
DUDE --you of all people --they have ####### pictures. What's it gonna take?
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Somebody will soon suggest the possibility that they were photoshopped.
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I thought this too, but lets be real. You arent gonna find the kind of casino carpet in any other house in the country. NO ONE would have the forthought to put that kind of detail in a photoshop project.
 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Biff84 said:
Not any felony but I do believe that one of crimes he is being investigated for - mishandling of government documents - does have the penalty preventing him from running for office.
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Office other than president.
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moleculo said:
Biff84 said:
BeTheMatch said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
BeTheMatch said:
If you plead guilty to a felony, you can't run for president ever again.
Click to expand...
Why not?
Click to expand...
I thought that was the law. Evidently not. Wonderful.
Click to expand...

Not any felony but I do believe that one of crimes he is being investigated for - mishandling of government documents - does have the penalty preventing him from running for office.
Click to expand...
Doesn't overrule the constitution.
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I saw that in the discussion but it just confused me more. The other two instances that I’ve seen were impeachment conviction and participation in insurrection. Are those included in the constitution and that’s why it’s different?
 
massraider said:
ZADO said:
Us conservatives ,not all Trump supporters ,have been watching the left have these ''we gotcha now '' parties for years . Personally ill watch until the dust settles. If everything goes as it has been we`ll simply chime in with ....''now what?''
Click to expand...
Why would a non-MAGA conservative not be as angry as a liberal as it coming out that he had these documents lying around a country club?
Click to expand...
ill be angry when i know they were important enough to be angry about, if thats ok ,thanks.
 
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