Jeff Garcia added to Pro Bowl roster (1 Viewer)

[monessen]

Jeff Garcia was named as the replacement for Brett Favre, who pulled out with a mysterious injury. The guy who never misses a start? Gee, I wonder if that injury would have knocked him out of the Super Bowl had the Packers made it. Guess we'll never know. Of course, we now have to enter the 5 month ritual of waiting on the decision whether Favre will return for next season.

As for Garcia, what a year he had handing off to Earnest Graham. Some outstanding handoffs! Every third game or so, Garcia would find Galloway for a long reception, with the other 2 games ones in which Galloway disappeared. Garcia was also exceptional at locating Ike Hilliard on 4 yard passes when Graham needed a breather from running.

I thought Luke McCown played about as well as Garcia.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

Jeff Garcia was named as the replacement for Brett Favre, who pulled out with a mysterious injury. The guy who never misses a start? Gee, I wonder if that injury would have knocked him out of the Super Bowl had the Packers made it. Guess we'll never know. Of course, we now have to enter the 5 month ritual of waiting on the decision whether Favre will return for next season.As for Garcia, what a year he had handing off to Earnest Graham. Some outstanding handoffs! Every third game or so, Garcia would find Galloway for a long reception, with the other 2 games ones in which Galloway disappeared. Garcia was also exceptional at locating Ike Hilliard on 4 yard passes when Graham needed a breather from running.I thought Luke McCown played about as well as Garcia.

since Brett couldn't make it the NFL had a void to fill for its AARP QB slot. it was Warner or Garcia

 

[Jous]

Favre ALWAYS pulls out of Pro Bowls, this is nothing new. It's no knock on his toughness, he just doesn't give a ##### enough to go.

 

[BoltBacker]

I thought Luke McCown played about as well as Garcia.

You mean when Garcia was 8-3 and McCown was 1-4?

 

[twitch]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs. And had he played in the other guy's division, his team would probably have made the playoffs. QB goes to the Pro Bowl because his team plays great D. Go figure. And these Pro Bowl appearances are eventually how so many of these guys are remembered.

 

[Jous]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think a QB who took a last-place team to the playoffs deserves to go more than a guy who led a division winner out of the playoffs...and Warner who compiled nice stats but didn't win enough.Garcia never had great stats, but he kept plays alive and converted important plays for first downs. The team was so much different with garcia than anyone else. he didn't deserve to start, but if Favre pulls out he's a good choice.

 

[twitch]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I wouldnt argue that. Brees didnt make it cause his D wasnt good enough. The 26th ranked D just isnt getting a QB into the Pro Bowl these days.

 

[J R]

Garcia never had great stats, but he kept plays alive and converted important plays for first downs. The team was so much different with garcia than anyone else. he didn't deserve to start, but if Favre pulls out he's a good choice.

Agreed here.Among NFC QBs, Garcia rated #3 in QB rating, #4 in YPA, ahead of Brees in both categories. Seems at the least not a travesty, jous.McCown didn't look bad at all when he played, monessen, i will give you that.

 

[BoltBacker]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs.

Maybe the fact that Warner turned the ball over 23 times in 11 starts factored into both the ProBowl and why his defense gave up so many points. I'm sure it helps to explain why Garcia was 8-3 as a starter while Warner was 5-6 as a starter.

 

[BoltBacker]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I wouldnt argue that. Brees didnt make it cause his D wasnt good enough. The 26th ranked D just isnt getting a QB into the Pro Bowl these days.

I think the volume of his attempts hurt him. His yards and TD's look very impressive until you look at the fact he threw the ball over 650 times last season(by far the most in the NFL last season). I think most NFL QB's would have 4500+/30+ if you give them 650+ attempts and Brees's yards and TD's fell short.

 

[twitch]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs.

Maybe the fact that Warner turned the ball over 23 times in 11 starts factored into both the ProBowl and why his defense gave up so many points. I'm sure it helps to explain why Garcia was 8-3 as a starter while Warner was 5-6 as a starter.

the guy threw 13 TDs. Weve seen Manning and Brady do that in 3 games. we could go around all day about why that D is 2nd in the NFL. Sorry, Im just not inviting a guy to the Pro Bowl for throwing just over a dozen TDs. its pretty simple.

 

[BoltBacker]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

 

[BoltBacker]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs.

Maybe the fact that Warner turned the ball over 23 times in 11 starts factored into both the ProBowl and why his defense gave up so many points. I'm sure it helps to explain why Garcia was 8-3 as a starter while Warner was 5-6 as a starter.

the guy threw 13 TDs. Weve seen Manning and Brady do that in 3 games. we could go around all day about why that D is 2nd in the NFL. Sorry, Im just not inviting a guy to the Pro Bowl for throwing just over a dozen TDs. its pretty simple.

Brady threw 18 TD's in 2001 when he took over for Bledsoe and led the Patriots to beat STL in the SB. Fewer TD's than Jay Fiedler, Aaron Brooks, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese... meh, I still thought he deserved to go to the probowl over any of those players.

 

[twitch]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

 

[twitch]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs.

Maybe the fact that Warner turned the ball over 23 times in 11 starts factored into both the ProBowl and why his defense gave up so many points. I'm sure it helps to explain why Garcia was 8-3 as a starter while Warner was 5-6 as a starter.

the guy threw 13 TDs. Weve seen Manning and Brady do that in 3 games. we could go around all day about why that D is 2nd in the NFL. Sorry, Im just not inviting a guy to the Pro Bowl for throwing just over a dozen TDs. its pretty simple.

Brady threw 18 TD's in 2001 when he took over for Bledsoe and led the Patriots to beat STL in the SB. Fewer TD's than Jay Fiedler, Aaron Brooks, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese... meh, I still thought he deserved to go to the probowl over any of those players.

Youre right. He won the Superbowl. He should have gone. But he won 3 more playoff games and was eventually a Superbowl MVP. Garcia played like the nice, effiecient QB he is this year in a losing effort. He's a nice QB. He's not a Pro Bowler.

 

[BoltBacker]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

Why stop there... you could put Terry Bradshaw in the probowl. Warner is a shell of the player that won anything.

 

[BoltBacker]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs.

Maybe the fact that Warner turned the ball over 23 times in 11 starts factored into both the ProBowl and why his defense gave up so many points. I'm sure it helps to explain why Garcia was 8-3 as a starter while Warner was 5-6 as a starter.

the guy threw 13 TDs. Weve seen Manning and Brady do that in 3 games. we could go around all day about why that D is 2nd in the NFL. Sorry, Im just not inviting a guy to the Pro Bowl for throwing just over a dozen TDs. its pretty simple.

Brady threw 18 TD's in 2001 when he took over for Bledsoe and led the Patriots to beat STL in the SB. Fewer TD's than Jay Fiedler, Aaron Brooks, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese... meh, I still thought he deserved to go to the probowl over any of those players.

Youre right. He won the Superbowl. He should have gone. But he won 3 more playoff games and was eventually a Superbowl MVP. Garcia played like the nice, effiecient QB he is this year in a losing effort. He's a nice QB. He's not a Pro Bowler.

Haven't you heard? The pro-bowl teams are announced well ahead of the SB ever being played.BTW Garcia had fewer "losing efforts" than either Warner or Brees so if that's your criteria it's pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[twitch]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

Why stop there... you could put Terry Bradshaw in the probowl. Warner is a shell of the player that won anything.

The point is of course, he's a risk taker. As was Bradshaw. Garcia is efficient. You win big games and titles with one type of guy. And dont with the other.

 

[twitch]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs.

Maybe the fact that Warner turned the ball over 23 times in 11 starts factored into both the ProBowl and why his defense gave up so many points. I'm sure it helps to explain why Garcia was 8-3 as a starter while Warner was 5-6 as a starter.

the guy threw 13 TDs. Weve seen Manning and Brady do that in 3 games. we could go around all day about why that D is 2nd in the NFL. Sorry, Im just not inviting a guy to the Pro Bowl for throwing just over a dozen TDs. its pretty simple.

Brady threw 18 TD's in 2001 when he took over for Bledsoe and led the Patriots to beat STL in the SB. Fewer TD's than Jay Fiedler, Aaron Brooks, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese... meh, I still thought he deserved to go to the probowl over any of those players.

Youre right. He won the Superbowl. He should have gone. But he won 3 more playoff games and was eventually a Superbowl MVP. Garcia played like the nice, effiecient QB he is this year in a losing effort. He's a nice QB. He's not a Pro Bowler.

Haven't you heard? The pro-bowl teams are announced well ahead of the SB ever being played.BTW Garcia had fewer "losing efforts" than either Warner or Brees so if that's your criteria it's pretty much a no-brainer.

as a fill-in, obviously.

 

[BoltBacker]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

Why stop there... you could put Terry Bradshaw in the probowl. Warner is a shell of the player that won anything.

The point is of course, he's a risk taker. As was Bradshaw. Garcia is efficient. You win big games and titles with one type of guy. And dont with the other.

Well, if you're trying to win football games with a guy turning the ball over more than twice a game... I agree, that's taking a risk.

 

[twitch]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

Why stop there... you could put Terry Bradshaw in the probowl. Warner is a shell of the player that won anything.

The point is of course, he's a risk taker. As was Bradshaw. Garcia is efficient. You win big games and titles with one type of guy. And dont with the other.

Well, if you're trying to win football games with a guy turning the ball over more than twice a game... I agree, that's taking a risk.

I dont want to go overboard making a case for Warner as a Pro Bowler. his name was brought up in the 2nd post, so I made the case that Id take him over Garcia. Its really simple for me, as I said. You throw 13 TDs as a starting QB, have a nice off season. But after 16 games, as they say you are what you are. Garcia was a 13 TD QB. And Tampa's D was 2nd in the NFL. That is what that is.

 

[Capella]

I thought Luke McCown played about as well as Garcia.

uh, no

 

[switz]

I thought Luke McCown played about as well as Garcia.

So, you didn't see much football, did you?

 

[Sidewinder]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

As a Saints fan first and foremost, after the scare last year, I'm fine with Brees not going to Hawaii this time around.

 

[redman]

Any thoughts as to the number of targets TO will get with Garcia in the game?

Getcha !

 

[BoltBacker]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

Why stop there... you could put Terry Bradshaw in the probowl. Warner is a shell of the player that won anything.

The point is of course, he's a risk taker. As was Bradshaw. Garcia is efficient. You win big games and titles with one type of guy. And dont with the other.

Well, if you're trying to win football games with a guy turning the ball over more than twice a game... I agree, that's taking a risk.

I dont want to go overboard making a case for Warner as a Pro Bowler. his name was brought up in the 2nd post, so I made the case that Id take him over Garcia. Its really simple for me, as I said. You throw 13 TDs as a starting QB, have a nice off season. But after 16 games, as they say you are what you are. Garcia was a 13 TD QB. And Tampa's D was 2nd in the NFL. That is what that is.

Again...'01 Tom Brady 18 TD in 413 attempts ~ .044TD/a'07 Jeff Garcia 13 TD in 327 attempts ~ .039TD/a... so if you're excluding Garcia strictly on TD production I fail to see the pronounced difference from Brady in '01. I think they were both probowl caliber performances.BTW I'm not a Garcia fan and I expected to see him get pounded into the turf this season, but he played very well.

 

[redman]

The real travesty is that Brees didn't go in. Brees deserved it next, then Warner, and Garcia 3rd.

I think that's a FF vs Football comparison. I think guys like Garrard/Garcia had a much better year and accomplished more than guys like Warner/Brees this season. I just prefer really efficient guys than guys that either turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate or guys that get big #'s by throwing the ball an average of 41 times a game.

You can have those kindof guys. Just dont expect to ever win a big game with any of them. You take the first 2, Ill take the second 2 with the two MVPs and the two Superbowl appearances.

Why stop there... you could put Terry Bradshaw in the probowl. Warner is a shell of the player that won anything.

The point is of course, he's a risk taker. As was Bradshaw. Garcia is efficient. You win big games and titles with one type of guy. And dont with the other.

Well, if you're trying to win football games with a guy turning the ball over more than twice a game... I agree, that's taking a risk.

I dont want to go overboard making a case for Warner as a Pro Bowler. his name was brought up in the 2nd post, so I made the case that Id take him over Garcia. Its really simple for me, as I said. You throw 13 TDs as a starting QB, have a nice off season. But after 16 games, as they say you are what you are. Garcia was a 13 TD QB. And Tampa's D was 2nd in the NFL. That is what that is.

Again...'01 Tom Brady 18 TD in 413 attempts ~ .044TD/a'07 Jeff Garcia 13 TD in 327 attempts ~ .039TD/a... so if you're excluding Garcia strictly on TD production I fail to see the pronounced difference from Brady in '01. I think they were both probowl caliber performances.BTW I'm not a Garcia fan and I expected to see him get pounded into the turf this season, but he played very well.

Gus Frerotte, 1996 Pro Bowler

Year	  Age	  Tm	  Pos	  G	  GS	  Cmp	  Att	  Cmp%	  Yds	  TD	  TD%	  Int	  Int%	  Lng	  Y/A	  AY/A	  Y/C	  Y/G	  Rate	  Sk	  Yds	  NY/A	  ANY/A	  Sk%1996* 	25 	WAS 	QB 	16 	16 	270 	470 	57.4 	3453 	12 	2.6 	11 	2.3 	52 	7.3 	6.5 	12.8 	215.8 	79.3 	22 	134 	6.7 	6.0 	4.5

 

[monessen]

As the guy who started this ruckus, I just have a few additional things.

I'm reading about Garcia's efficiency and the infamous ability to 'manage" the game. In baseball, the guy with gaudy stats gets named to the All-Star game. In football, Warner and Brees would be those guys over Garcia. I don't think fans who watch the Pro Bowl, all 5 of them, want to watch a QB "manage" the game. They want points and excitement.

While I concede Garcia's ability to lead the Bucs out of the doldrums in a relatively weak division due to the other teams imploding, Graham was the chief reason for the offensive success. Neil O'Donnell would have been a Pro Bowler every year if managing the game, keeping turnovers down, and handing off to an excellent RB (like Foster in 1992) were the criteria. Gruden tailored the style of offense to suit Garcia. Garcia didn't light it up, but he didn't have to, given the Bucs overall team play. I don't believe Garcia can light it up anymore; he dinks and dunks. Kind of funny to think he's replacing Favre, of all people, in this game.

Finally, I was reacting, as I'm wont to do, from a fantasy perspective when posting. Garcia is a serviceable QB, whose flaws were exposed against the Giants in the playoffs. McCown's numbers were pretty good overall if you are thinking about a future QB for fantasy purposes.

Think about this---Romo, McNabb, Eli, Favre, Brees, Warner, Hasselbeck. Am not sure Garcia is among the top 7 QBs in the conference considering that group. Not a guy who played only 11 games or whatever.

 

[BoltBacker]

Think about this---Romo, McNabb, Eli, Favre, Brees, Warner, Hasselbeck. Am not sure Garcia is among the top 7 QBs in the conference considering that group. Not a guy who played only 11 games or whatever.

Romo/Favre were the top two in the NFC, period.After that I'd give Hass the edge over Garcia but both put up good stats and won.

After that you can get into the argument about stats/wins. Brees/McNabb(and Warner if you don't think TO's have much influence on a game like most FF people) put up stats on teams most people think underperformed but Eli got wins.

ETA In response to the bolded section... of that group everyone is talking about (Brees/McNabb/Warner) nobody was able to get more wins than Garcia. It's not like TB was some sort of dynasty when he got to TB.. TB was 4-12 last year so I don't buy the "yeah, but he had a much better team" argument when explaining away his wins.

 

[Delusions Of Adequacy]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs. And had he played in the other guy's division, his team would probably have made the playoffs. QB goes to the Pro Bowl because his team plays great D. Go figure. And these Pro Bowl appearances are eventually how so many of these guys are remembered.

2007 Warner was >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 Garcia

 

[westbrook36]

Any thoughts as to the number of targets TO will get with Garcia in the game? Getcha !

 

[zoonation]

Jeff Garcia was named as the replacement for Brett Favre, who pulled out with a mysterious injury. The guy who never misses a start? Gee, I wonder if that injury would have knocked him out of the Super Bowl had the Packers made it. Guess we'll never know. Of course, we now have to enter the 5 month ritual of waiting on the decision whether Favre will return for next season.

As for Garcia, what a year he had handing off to Earnest Graham. Some outstanding handoffs! Every third game or so, Garcia would find Galloway for a long reception, with the other 2 games ones in which Galloway disappeared. Garcia was also exceptional at locating Ike Hilliard on 4 yard passes when Graham needed a breather from running.

I thought Luke McCown played about as well as Garcia.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs. And had he played in the other guy's division, his team would probably have made the playoffs. QB goes to the Pro Bowl because his team plays great D. Go figure. And these Pro Bowl appearances are eventually how so many of these guys are remembered.

2007 Warner was >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2007 Garcia

Maybe if you're an opposing defense, because you know your turnover numbers are about to skyrocket. Mean old Garcia didn't give them the ball, but Warner was very generous.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs. And had he played in the other guy's division, his team would probably have made the playoffs. QB goes to the Pro Bowl because his team plays great D. Go figure. And these Pro Bowl appearances are eventually how so many of these guys are remembered.

I believe this is the first time I've ever seen someone say that a NFC West team has it unfair because their division is too tough, and I hope its the last. I mean, seriously.

 

[twitch]

Ive never understood some of these Pro Bowl choices. This is just another example. So given the choice between say, Kurt Warner and Jeff Garcia. One guy's team wins 9 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 2nd in total D and 5th in pass D, allows 17pts a game, and the guy throws 13TDs. The other guy's team wins 8 games in a weak division, his team is ranked 17th in total D, allows 25 points a game, and the guy throws 27TDs. And had he played in the other guy's division, his team would probably have made the playoffs. QB goes to the Pro Bowl because his team plays great D. Go figure. And these Pro Bowl appearances are eventually how so many of these guys are remembered.

I believe this is the first time I've ever seen someone say that a NFC West team has it unfair because their division is too tough, and I hope its the last. I mean, seriously.

Do you see the words, "too tough" anywhere in my comments? I used the word WEAK to describle both divisions. I didnt describe anything as tough. Seriously. Let's not put words in one another's mouths now.

 

[Slinger]

The only thing I learned in this thread is that monessen never saw one Buccaneers game.

 

[monessen]

The only thing I learned in this thread is that monessen never saw one Buccaneers game.

And what I've learned is you know nothing about me. I saw the Bucs plenty. Carolina is considered our home team territory and the Bucs, being in that same division, were on TV here a lot. I also had Garcia, Galloway, and the Bucs D on my fantasy team. I'm not sure what point is being made here that relates to anything else stated earlier regarding the Pro Bowl. If you don't think the Bucs D or Graham contributed mightily to the Bucs' success, you know less than me. As far as how many games the Bucs won with Garcia starting, you may be giving him far too much credit for those victories. If you can't refute anything I've established, don''t bother with your lame remark about what I don't know.

 

[Capella]

The only thing I learned in this thread is that monessen never saw one Buccaneers game.

And what I've learned is you know nothing about me. I saw the Bucs plenty. Carolina is considered our home team territory and the Bucs, being in that same division, were on TV here a lot. I also had Garcia, Galloway, and the Bucs D on my fantasy team. I'm not sure what point is being made here that relates to anything else stated earlier regarding the Pro Bowl. If you don't think the Bucs D or Graham contributed mightily to the Bucs' success, you know less than me. As far as how many games the Bucs won with Garcia starting, you may be giving him far too much credit for those victories. If you can't refute anything I've established, don''t bother with your lame remark about what I don't know.

I've watched every Bucs game for the past 25 years, and every game this year twice. Garcia was easily the MVP of the team this year, and was voted as such by his teammates and the media./thread

 

[monessen]

The only thing I learned in this thread is that monessen never saw one Buccaneers game.

And what I've learned is you know nothing about me. I saw the Bucs plenty. Carolina is considered our home team territory and the Bucs, being in that same division, were on TV here a lot. I also had Garcia, Galloway, and the Bucs D on my fantasy team. I'm not sure what point is being made here that relates to anything else stated earlier regarding the Pro Bowl. If you don't think the Bucs D or Graham contributed mightily to the Bucs' success, you know less than me. As far as how many games the Bucs won with Garcia starting, you may be giving him far too much credit for those victories. If you can't refute anything I've established, don''t bother with your lame remark about what I don't know.

I've watched every Bucs game for the past 25 years, and every game this year twice. Garcia was easily the MVP of the team this year, and was voted as such by his teammates and the media./thread

Well, then, I apologize to both you and, especially, slinger. I was too hard on you guys, due to caffeine, and genuinely defer to your greater familiarity with TB's season, gents. But several here believe that Brees, without much of a running game, unlike TB, deserves the Pro Bowl honor and I agree. It is true that TB rescued Garcia from the Cleveland and Detroit benches in recent years, and gave him the opportunity to start once McNabb was healthy enough in Philly to compel Garcia to look elsewhere. Garcia was a clear improvement over Bruce Gradkowski, to be be certain.But, Great Scott, man! If you watched every Tampa Bay game TWICE in 2007, you must have gotten a lot of sleep. How did you even sit through the opener with Seattle once? I admire your dedication.

 

[Capella]

The only thing I learned in this thread is that monessen never saw one Buccaneers game.

And what I've learned is you know nothing about me. I saw the Bucs plenty. Carolina is considered our home team territory and the Bucs, being in that same division, were on TV here a lot. I also had Garcia, Galloway, and the Bucs D on my fantasy team. I'm not sure what point is being made here that relates to anything else stated earlier regarding the Pro Bowl. If you don't think the Bucs D or Graham contributed mightily to the Bucs' success, you know less than me. As far as how many games the Bucs won with Garcia starting, you may be giving him far too much credit for those victories. If you can't refute anything I've established, don''t bother with your lame remark about what I don't know.

I've watched every Bucs game for the past 25 years, and every game this year twice. Garcia was easily the MVP of the team this year, and was voted as such by his teammates and the media./thread

Well, then, I apologize to both you and, especially, slinger. I was too hard on you guys, due to caffeine, and genuinely defer to your greater familiarity with TB's season, gents. But several here believe that Brees, without much of a running game, unlike TB, deserves the Pro Bowl honor and I agree. It is true that TB rescued Garcia from the Cleveland and Detroit benches in recent years, and gave him the opportunity to start once McNabb was healthy enough in Philly to compel Garcia to look elsewhere. Garcia was a clear improvement over Bruce Gradkowski, to be be certain.But, Great Scott, man! If you watched every Tampa Bay game TWICE in 2007, you must have gotten a lot of sleep. How did you even sit through the opener with Seattle once? I admire your dedication.

I don't watch much else in the NFL. I honestly don't care if he was Pro Bowl worthy or not. But to discredit what he meant to the team was a bit much. That's a 4-5 win team with McCown or Gradkowski at the wheel.

 

[Slinger]

caffeine

Caffeine kills brother, it kills.

 

[monessen]

caffeine

Caffeine kills brother, it kills.

Indeed, my friend. Good luck to the Bucs and their fans next year! I lived in Tampa when Leeman Bennett was coach, watched fans cheer for the opposing team, saw nothing Ray Perkins pledge come through, and it is so good to see the culture change since those days, thanks to Dungy and Gruden among others.

 

[BoltBacker]

'01 Tom Brady 18 TD in 413 attempts ~ .044TD/a'07 Jeff Garcia 13 TD in 327 attempts ~ .039TD/a

'07 Drew Brees 28 TD in 652 attempts ~ .043TD/aI don't think the absence of a running game and a poor defense hurt Brees's gross yardage/TD a bit, if anything passing over 40 times a game is what got him those yards/TD's. If you give that many passing attempts to any QB from the mid-level(16th ranked) up you'll get equal or better stats. Of the top 16 rated QB's not a single QB had a lower yards/attempt. In fact, if you wanted to find a QB with a lower yards/attempt you'd have to go all the way down to Jason Cambell rated #20.

 

[nerangers]

Jeff Garcia was named as the replacement for Brett Favre, who pulled out with a mysterious injury. The guy who never misses a start? Gee, I wonder if that injury would have knocked him out of the Super Bowl had the Packers made it. Guess we'll never know. Of course, we now have to enter the 5 month ritual of waiting on the decision whether Favre will return for next season.

Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre pulled out of the Pro Bowl Thursday. Favre last played in the all-star game in 1996 and has now backed out five times since then. -- Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel