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Justice Democrats (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter NCCommish
- Start date
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Already starting my Genderbender & Wokeboy outlines....
ETA: Genderbender will have a slot machine as its codpiece, determining how it identifies for each crusade.
ETA: Genderbender will have a slot machine as its codpiece, determining how it identifies for each crusade.
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RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
That platform has 3-4 excellent ideas. The rest of it ranges from ridiculous to total monkey excrement.
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
Johnnymac
Footballguy
On board NC, I like the platform for sure. The democrats need some progressive and dynamic leaders that can build movements at the grass roots level. This is a long process and there will be alot of pain in the meantime. The republicans have the ball now and can do whatever they want. For people like me thats not a good thing, but I will survive. I have kids and those are the people I am worried about, as well as their future kids.
I still don't understand him in that role. Guy was a brain surgeon...obviously intelligent...but how that does that background fit this new role?
NCCommish
Footballguy
She was hardly the only one it was unanimous after all. Both she and Sherrod Brown voted for Carson. They cited his promises on homelessness, on equal access and continuing programs designed to reduce rent. Basically he didn't terrify them, he didn't seem like he wanted to crater the dept and they felt they may be able to work with him on some stuff. So we'll see how that decision works out for them. I'd they get somewhere with him it will look better than it does now. If he is an abject horror they will.pay a political price.
And there is one more consideration. President Obama's picks sailed through in 2009 for the most part and the GOP stood by. Some day someone other than a Republican may want to appoint a cabinet and what goes around comes around.
Reg Lllama of Brixton
Footballguy
No. Just like any other time when one party is asked to confirm the choices of the other party's POTUS they have to pick their battles and/or settle.
Riversco
Footballguy
The democrat party has a MUCH bigger problem on a fundamental level.
In the old days, when mom and dad wanted to know about politics, they turned on the TV news or picked up a newspaper. You reached these people by organizing marches, getting out in the streets, and trying to win over voters. But something happened in the last 10 years. Mom and dad got on the internet. The internet is the new "streets" as you put it. They go on forums, or read twitter or facebook. They ignore what the media tells them. They ignore the marches. They don't look at the facade anymore.
Mom and dad can go DIRECTLY to democrats on the internet and interact with them. And what do they see? They see democrats running forums, allowing other democrats to attack republicans. They see them banning republicans from forums. They see a DEEPLY ingrained intolerance of blue collar workers, whom are CONSTANTLY referred to as stupid. They see rural people totally disrespected by rank and file democrats on the internet all day.
The democrats ARE on the streets. They have been for quite some time. The problem is they aren't trying to win over voters. They are acting incredibly ugly, intolerant, and sometimes border on fascism. The nasty things they post about guns, religion, farmers, people with just a high school education. Maybe you are blind to it but I guarantee mom and dad are starting to read all of that now and its going to have a really negative effect.
Going out and organizing a demonstration or a march is SO 20th century. Mom and dad see through that now. The march is the advertisement. The real thing is how they see people act on the internet. I think this is probably why Trump is president now. I think we could be looking at some very very long term dominance of republicans in government at all levels...unless democrats learn to show more respect for people on the internet.
How do win over a religious person after they've been exposed to some of the incredibly nasty things rank and file democrats say on a daily basis about religion on the internet. There is no leader of the democrat party that can overcome the DAILY assault of religion. Its going to drive them away from voting democrat. Before everyone got online, this was hidden. Not anymore.
When they look at Trump, he's just fighting BACK..
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Dragons & Gridirons
Footballguy
I love the effort to counter the influence of money in politics, and most of the platform here. But I agree with others that universal college education would be hugely inefficient. If we re-conceptualized it as universal career preparation/training, based on merit and aptitude, I'd be all for it.
On a related note, most of us are going to be out of a job within the next 25 years due to advances in AI and robotics, so any sweeping changes would hopefully try to get is ahead of that. I don't know if universal basic income is the answer, but we have to do something to make sure our economy isn't 300 mil broke people and a handful of old money guys who own the machines.
On a related note, most of us are going to be out of a job within the next 25 years due to advances in AI and robotics, so any sweeping changes would hopefully try to get is ahead of that. I don't know if universal basic income is the answer, but we have to do something to make sure our economy isn't 300 mil broke people and a handful of old money guys who own the machines.
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Johnnymac
Footballguy
This is exactly what the real owners of this country want and they are well on their way to getting it (after all, they make the poicy). The recent election is going to speed up the process.
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Short Corner
Footballguy
Short Corner
Footballguy
They wouldn't be easier to obtain, they would be less expensive to obtain, making them equally available across classes.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yeah because the saintly Republicans and especially that.pictire or restraint Trump never attack or marginalize anyone. Why it is all those ugly Democrats Poor helpless Republicans just have to sit back and take it.
Speaking of being blind to something.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Oh and it should be mentioned that the country gets more secular by the minute. Especially after being exposed to the hate that to often passes for theology in so many places today.
Why is it that the people who claim that everyone else acts like victims and derides safe spaces, etc. Seem.to be the ones who are the biggest victims in need of a safe space?
Why is it that the people who claim that everyone else acts like victims and derides safe spaces, etc. Seem.to be the ones who are the biggest victims in need of a safe space?
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The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not sure that was his point, but I may be wrong. When I read it, it read as something they have to combat now (just like the GOP) that they didn't used to have to combat because it wasn't a big part of their motivation tactics. They've seen the success this approach has had in the GOP and began to use it themselves. Personally, I've seen the "ugly" from both sides. It's always been there. The GOP went all in well before the Democrats even thought about it. This is a big reason people don't want to be identified as Democrat or Republican anymore. I was prepared for some
and 
after the "loss", but what I've witnessed here and IRL is truly amazing to me. It's also sad. I was HOPING that the dems would remain relatively sane while the GOP figured itself out and corrected course. Doesn't look like I'll be getting that.On a positive note, it's out there for everyone to see now. It's not hidden anymore. A good portion of it has bubbled to the top. That's typically the hardest part. Hopefully we can now begin to address the real issues and stop addressing the symptoms of the larger, clear problem.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I think the problem is those are just the loudest people not the majority. For instance what I said about working with people we disagree with on other things isn't just me. It's a lot of people that are part of Our Revolution and Justice Democrats. If Trump really wants to do a solid infrastructure bill we'll help him. There is one on the table the Dems.put forward. Estimated to create 15 million jobs. Let's do it President Trump. We are ready to stand with Trump if he really wants to fight for SS, Medicare and Medicaid as he promised to on the trail many times. Let's do it. We are ready to work with faith groups on all those things I listed. Again not just me but the leaders of these movements.I'm not sure that was his point, but I may be wrong. When I read it, it read as something they have to combat now (just like the GOP) that they didn't used to have to combat because it wasn't a big part of their motivation tactics. They've seen the success this approach has had in the GOP and began to use it themselves. Personally, I've seen the "ugly" from both sides. It's always been there. The GOP went all in well before the Democrats even thought about it. This is a big reason people don't want to be identified as Democrat or Republican anymore. I was prepared for some
On a positive note, it's out there for everyone to see now. It's not hidden anymore. A good portion of it has bubbled to the top. That's typically the hardest part. Hopefully we can now begin to address the real issues and stop addressing the symptoms of the larger, clear problem.
So as we all know there are #######s in every camp. They don't define that camp generally but they do embarrass it regularly. So no one really gets to claim any kind of superiority on the subject. Mom and Dad may need to expand their horizons a bit. Go out meet the people. At the March in Charlotte they would have met a lot of young women and families. Not guys in black masks. No bricks through windows. Just people who are concerned about the direction they perceive the country to be headed. No Madonna being an ###. Just folks. Their neighbors. That nice young couple down the street. Not the troll on the internet.
Riversco
Footballguy
You might be the one blind here. I hear it all the time these days that its the democrats on the internet that marginalize people.
Riversco
Footballguy
Wow it just happened AGAIN in this thread. I bring up an example of mom and dad not likng how rank and file democrats marginalize people, and the FIRST reaction is "well maybe mom and dad should broaden their horizons". Thats EXACTLY what im talking about. Immediately they marginalize mom and dad. Thats not how to win people over.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't disagree that the bold is true and has been true for a long time, but when do WE stop allowing it to be true? I notice the same thing in my faith, and fortunately, there seems to be a movement to take back the faith from the loud VERY WRONG people. I feel like we (on both sides) who are the majority, who aren't bat#### crazy, who aren't trying to turn everything into a comparison between two really bad options as justification, who ARE trying to talk about the issues need to start making our presence known. How do we do that when media is in the business of eyeballs and not issues?I think the problem is those are just the loudest people not the majority. For instance what I said about working with people we disagree with on other things isn't just me. It's a lot of people that are part of Our Revolution and Justice Democrats. If Trump really wants to do a solid infrastructure bill we'll help him. There is one on the table the Dems.put forward. Estimated to create 15 million jobs. Let's do it President Trump. We are ready to stand with Trump if he really wants to fight for SS, Medicare and Medicaid as he promised to on the trail many times. Let's do it. We are ready to work with faith groups on all those things I listed. Again not just me but the leaders of these movements.I'm not sure that was his point, but I may be wrong. When I read it, it read as something they have to combat now (just like the GOP) that they didn't used to have to combat because it wasn't a big part of their motivation tactics. They've seen the success this approach has had in the GOP and began to use it themselves. Personally, I've seen the "ugly" from both sides. It's always been there. The GOP went all in well before the Democrats even thought about it. This is a big reason people don't want to be identified as Democrat or Republican anymore. I was prepared for some
On a positive note, it's out there for everyone to see now. It's not hidden anymore. A good portion of it has bubbled to the top. That's typically the hardest part. Hopefully we can now begin to address the real issues and stop addressing the symptoms of the larger, clear problem.
So as we all know there are #######s in every camp. They don't define that camp generally but they do embarrass it regularly. So no one really gets to claim any kind of superiority on the subject. Mom and Dad may need to expand their horizons a bit. Go out meet the people. At the March in Charlotte they would have met a lot of young women and families. Not guys in black masks. No bricks through windows. Just people who are concerned about the direction they perceive the country to be headed. No Madonna being an ###. Just folks. Their neighbors. That nice young couple down the street. Not the troll on the internet.
NCCommish
Footballguy
You and I change it in spite of them. We don't need them. We find common ground and we come together in those topics. That's the invitation being put out by Bernie and the leaders of these movements. I would like to think we can come together and stop falling victim to political wedges. We don't have to agree on everything to agree on a lot of things.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
First thing Dems gotta do is take the "nyaah, nyaah" out of what they do and return to being the party of our better angels, the heroes of the put-upon. And that includes the wokists - if we are to ask Americans to include tolerance in decency, we damn well better include what they see as "decency" within our tolerance. The mob has overrun the fence which the brave and clever few took down and should not be allowed to be the voice of progress. Change don't snap, it grows, burgeons, filters. This "if you ain't here you're nowhere" is the credo of people who've never fought for anything and spoiled children will never rule the world, even if the occasional spoiled child comes to power.
Most importantly, let em all fight against you. If you're right, if you have truth and justice on your side, fight for tomorrow, for freedom, for opportunity and against no one until necessity calls. When you wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty. The pig likes it.
Most importantly, let em all fight against you. If you're right, if you have truth and justice on your side, fight for tomorrow, for freedom, for opportunity and against no one until necessity calls. When you wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty. The pig likes it.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't think you know what marginalize means. Here's a definition:Riversco said:
Saying someone should meet more people and/or broaden their horizons is not marginalizing them. You may think its condescending, but its not marginalizing.
This is a problem I see with a lot of discourse on this board and in general. People use words and either don't understand what they mean or are purposefully misusing them to twist the conversation.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
But, WAIT! You must instantly understand what i feel inside and proclaim it to be wonderful as soon as i pronounce!! You don't, you be harshin'.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
You joke, but up to recently I really have tried to give people the benefit of the doubt, assume the best case and try and work out what they really mean without jumping straight to judgement. But there's just been so much straight up sloppy, shallow thinking lately that I don't have the time or energy for that anymore. More and more it's obvious that there's a ton of ignorance getting voiced out there. The only question is whether its genuine (true lack of exposure) or willful (denial of reality that doesn't fit with a pre-existing worldview).
NCCommish
Footballguy
And by the way I would have said the same thing to someone saying all Trump voters are.mysoginist, racist, homophobes. Get out and meet them you'll come away feeling differently about quite a few of them. Broaden your horizons you'll be glad you did.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Expect more before less, my friend. Sixty years ago or so, the social Big Bang began when America started letting several 'sub-classes' of humans begin to find freedom for themselves and loosening the rules for everyone, after basically 10,000 years of barbarians, popes, royals, and patricians. With those freedoms came the right to question every institution and moral underpinning by which we governed ourselves. No puzzle at all, then, how quickly liberty became license. Few thought that explosion would cross over into the absolute silliness of today but, looking back and doing the math on 60 v. 10000, expecting a society still in explosion phase, freedomwise, to rein itself in or even slow its progression to madness is probably naive.
ETA: Not to mention the backlash which continues to voluminously exacerbate the phenomenon (howbout them syllables?!) as reactionaries desperately grasp for toothpaste to shove back into the tube. There was a 2hour American Experience on Rachel Carson last nite and it floored me when doctors diagnosed her cancer, that they didnt know how to break it to her because they were so used to telling the husband these things. That was 50 yrs ago and them daddies and they sons are still thinkin that's the way it oughta be, boy.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
The problem is that we're at a point where many of our actions have global implications, and the fallout happens much more rapidly than it used to. We can't afford a whole lot of madness.
It's aggravating to watch people from essentially the same economic and social strata blast each other continuously over non-essential differences (color of skin, flavor of faith, region of country, who needs jobs more) to the extent that we can't have any reasoned communication, much less agreement, resulting in our choices for President (and to a great extent governance in general) being representatives from a completely different social and economic strata whose only interest in the wide swath of humanity is how to exploit them, whether it be for political gain, economic gain or both. This is what @NCCommish is about here - correcting that situation. It needs correction.
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wikkidpissah
Footballguy
absolutely, but methinks too late (tho i'll likely soon be joining the best left effort i can find). i been pimpin' the Crash (precipitating event: RE-electing Dubya) as inevitable since i became a FFApper and even i am flabbergasted by how Pythonsketch society has become in the past decade.
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NCCommish
Footballguy
We are close to the edge but we don't have to Thelma and Louise off it. We can turn around. You only lose when you quit.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Going doesn't get you a degree. Passing gets you a degree. So unless they also lower standards no it doesn't get easier to get it it's just easier to afford. Even if you never get a degree.
timschochet
Footballguy
I really believe this is a terrible time to divide the Democratic Party. President Trump is in the process of seriously screwing up this country. Those of us who oppose him should stay united by the principles we can agree upon.
Having litmus tests and shrinking down the tent is only going to lose more elections, IMO.
Having litmus tests and shrinking down the tent is only going to lose more elections, IMO.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
The fact that your centrist / blue dog approach gave us President Trump pretty much kills this viewpoint.
The Commish
Footballguy
Too late for that Tim. While it was my belief that both parties would implode at some point, it was my hope they'd do it at different times. Looks like I won't be getting that wish and this really did escalate quickly. Hopefully, the more sensible side of the Dem party can work to fix the foundation and provide for a stronger future while the nuts of the party are out
about Trump and using their best fear mongering tactics to erode their legitimacy going forward.
NCCommish
Footballguy
well maybe the DNC shouldn't have shrunk the party. Marginalized liberals, unions, and working class voters . They didn't need us and our principles. They were going to replace us with moderate Republicans. Chuck.made that clear.
I don't know how you shrink the party when you put forth candidates who support policies the overwhelming majority of Democrata agree with. You know instead of running as Republican light.
ren hoek
Footballguy
So in 2018, hundreds of Justice Democrats will run a unified campaign to replace every corporate-backed member of Congress and rebuild the party from scratch. This is our plan.
That's pretty neat
Pass a constitutional amendment to put an end to Washington corruption and bring about election reform.
Sounds nice in theory. Maybe a little ambitious but ok
Re-regulate Wall Street and hold white-collar criminals accountable.
Even better, let the banks fail next time. Let the market do its job
End billionaire and corporate tax dodging, fix the system to benefit middle-class and poor people.
Here we go. Blame the rich. "Millionaires and billionaires." Resources are better spent by people that actually work for them rather than ivory tower bureaucrats. Why not just tax them at 99.7%? How about ending the income tax- along with the litany of nickel and dime taxes so everyone wins? Killing the incentive to be profitable is really stupid and drives business and jobs away to more friendly climates. Let the civilian decide for themselves what's best for their money.
Defend free speech and expression.
Naturally
Oppose bigotry.
Sure
Make the minimum wage a living wage and tie it to inflation.
How is a small business supposed to afford to pay people when they can't hire help without guaranteeing them an unreal wage/benefits package? This will kill jobs. It'll also drive up cost for consumers which basically renders the whole idea pointless.
Why is inflation assumed as the natural order of monetary policy? Why are democrats so averse to thinking about different monetary systems? Nothing in this platform about the federal reserve?
Ensure universal healthcare as a right.
No thanks. It's kind of duplicitous for the government to basically subsidize junk food, allow Monsanto to abuse small-market farmers with patent law, and then force otherwise healthy people to pay for sedentary burgerclaps who eat trash all day. I recognize that people have a real need for affordable healthcare for conditions out of their control, but it would be much more affordable if it wasn't propped up by insolvent entitlement programs, much of which today's generation won't see a dime of. Some safety net. Medicine would also be much more accessible if the FDA weren't putting artificial controls on market competition. Healthcare cost has risen astronomically versus inflation which coincides precisely with the amount of regulatory burden and bureaucracy applied to it over the years.
Ensure universal education as a right.
Nope. God no. Only in higher education can any chump off the street take out a federally guaranteed loan for $50-$100K with no collateral and come out with a degree that's hardly worth the paper it's printed on.
End unnecessary wars and nation building.
Yes
End the failed war on drugs.
Yes please
Create the new new deal.
No thanks. Property would be managed much better by private parties than state officials that are hardly held accountable or even know what it is they are tasked with building. This post offers really great insight into how corruption works in the real world.
Create the renewable energy revolution.
I'm on board. Just needs to happen on its own and it will
Block the TPP and all outsourcing deals that will further damage the middle-class.
Good
End Constitutional overreaches.
Good
Ban arming human rights violators.
Ban arming, funding, or supporting any of them
Ensure paid vacation time, sick time, maternity leave, childcare.
Who pays for all this stuff?
Abolish the death penalty.
Agree. Also end the prison industrial complex and release all nonviolent drug offenders.
I don't see how Bernie Sanders still has credibility after pretending to oppose the establishment, then endorsing it. What a disgrace. Definitely agree that the left needs some sort of rework.
That's pretty neat
Pass a constitutional amendment to put an end to Washington corruption and bring about election reform.
Sounds nice in theory. Maybe a little ambitious but ok
Re-regulate Wall Street and hold white-collar criminals accountable.
Even better, let the banks fail next time. Let the market do its job
End billionaire and corporate tax dodging, fix the system to benefit middle-class and poor people.
Here we go. Blame the rich. "Millionaires and billionaires." Resources are better spent by people that actually work for them rather than ivory tower bureaucrats. Why not just tax them at 99.7%? How about ending the income tax- along with the litany of nickel and dime taxes so everyone wins? Killing the incentive to be profitable is really stupid and drives business and jobs away to more friendly climates. Let the civilian decide for themselves what's best for their money.
Defend free speech and expression.
Naturally
Oppose bigotry.
Sure
Make the minimum wage a living wage and tie it to inflation.
How is a small business supposed to afford to pay people when they can't hire help without guaranteeing them an unreal wage/benefits package? This will kill jobs. It'll also drive up cost for consumers which basically renders the whole idea pointless.
Why is inflation assumed as the natural order of monetary policy? Why are democrats so averse to thinking about different monetary systems? Nothing in this platform about the federal reserve?
Ensure universal healthcare as a right.
No thanks. It's kind of duplicitous for the government to basically subsidize junk food, allow Monsanto to abuse small-market farmers with patent law, and then force otherwise healthy people to pay for sedentary burgerclaps who eat trash all day. I recognize that people have a real need for affordable healthcare for conditions out of their control, but it would be much more affordable if it wasn't propped up by insolvent entitlement programs, much of which today's generation won't see a dime of. Some safety net. Medicine would also be much more accessible if the FDA weren't putting artificial controls on market competition. Healthcare cost has risen astronomically versus inflation which coincides precisely with the amount of regulatory burden and bureaucracy applied to it over the years.
Ensure universal education as a right.
Nope. God no. Only in higher education can any chump off the street take out a federally guaranteed loan for $50-$100K with no collateral and come out with a degree that's hardly worth the paper it's printed on.
End unnecessary wars and nation building.
Yes
End the failed war on drugs.
Yes please
Create the new new deal.
No thanks. Property would be managed much better by private parties than state officials that are hardly held accountable or even know what it is they are tasked with building. This post offers really great insight into how corruption works in the real world.
Create the renewable energy revolution.
I'm on board. Just needs to happen on its own and it will
Block the TPP and all outsourcing deals that will further damage the middle-class.
Good
End Constitutional overreaches.
Good
Ban arming human rights violators.
Ban arming, funding, or supporting any of them
Ensure paid vacation time, sick time, maternity leave, childcare.
Who pays for all this stuff?
Abolish the death penalty.
Agree. Also end the prison industrial complex and release all nonviolent drug offenders.
I don't see how Bernie Sanders still has credibility after pretending to oppose the establishment, then endorsing it. What a disgrace. Definitely agree that the left needs some sort of rework.
The Commish
Footballguy
Thoughtful
Seems like the best place to put this since it's mostly rational, well intentioned people in here. I don't think it even gets acknowledged in the other threads...too much finger pointing from the unhinged left/right in those threads.
Seems like the best place to put this since it's mostly rational, well intentioned people in here. I don't think it even gets acknowledged in the other threads...too much finger pointing from the unhinged left/right in those threads.
Short Corner
Footballguy
So do you think the schools will just open enrollment to accept everyone that meets current admission standards?
Short Corner
Footballguy
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