Kurt Warner, Hall of Famer? (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

It's early in the season, but Kurt Warner is among the league leaders in passing. He's on pace for 4000 yards and 32 TDs, and has thrown just one INT. He has the Cardinals in the division lead and at this point they probably look like the front-runner in that division (shockingly).

So let's say things play out well for Warner this year, he keeps up his pace, and the Cardinals make the playoffs. Warner will be a strong candidate for MVP if that happens.

If Warner wins his third league MVP trophy, to go with his Super Bowl MVP, will he have a chance at the Hall of Fame?

On the one hand, I can't imagine there is any three-time MVP who isn't in the Hall of Fame, particularly at QB, and particularly when that QB also has a Super Bowl win and MVP. On the other hand, his compiled career stats come up quite short compared to other QBs; he's currently #58 in passing yards and #61 in passing TDs. He'll get into the top 50, but probably doesn't have a chance to crack the top 20 before age catches up with him. On the third hand, his passing performance stats are quite good; #4 in career passer rating, #3 in completion percentage, #4 in adjusted net yards/attempt. And he did it playing for three different teams.

Warner, when healthy and starting, seems to have performed as well as the best QBs in league history. But the late start to his career, and his injury problems in St. Louis led to a spotty overall resume.

Does he have a chance? Can you keep out a three-time MVP?

 

[Modog814]

I voted outside chance but IMO he would really need to lead the Cardinals to a superbowl win to even get legitimate conversation about it. The HOF is for the elite not for the very good. He's not elite in my opinion

 

[CalBear]

I voted outside chance but IMO he would really need to lead the Cardinals to a superbowl win to even get legitimate conversation about it. The HOF is for the elite not for the very good. He's not elite in my opinion

I don't see how you could call a three-time MVP "not elite." He didn't have a consistent career, but for an individual there is nothing more elite than the league MVP award.

 

[David Yudkin]

I guess the other thread on Warner for HOF wasn't enough . . .

Warner for HOF?

and that one wasn't enough with the one that I started . . .

Warner for HOF?

 

[bulger2holt]

If Warner had a better o-line in st. louis, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. He would be a 100% lock. He took a beating there and set his career back a few years.

 

[Modog814]

I voted outside chance but IMO he would really need to lead the Cardinals to a superbowl win to even get legitimate conversation about it. The HOF is for the elite not for the very good. He's not elite in my opinion

I don't see how you could call a three-time MVP "not elite." He didn't have a consistent career, but for an individual there is nothing more elite than the league MVP award.

He's had 2 very good/great ( and 2 good) years in the NFL and happened to win the MVP in both of those years. I think he's talented but injuries and a late start to his career IMO is going to stop him from getting into the HOF. 2 Great seasons do not make a player elite. He had/has the potential, but you don't get into the HOF based on extrapolating stats into what if scenarios. Now if he gets a 3rd MVP (I don't think he's close to being considered for it this year, as of now at least) yes that would help his chances. However, I believe his chances are helped much more by leading the cardinals to a superbowl victory. I'd have a lot harder time arguing against a qb that took 2 different teams to superbowl victories than a qb that won 3 MVP awards To me, an elite player is someone who is consistently excellent for an extended period of time.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

He's better than Aikman.

 

[gianmarco]

I guess the other thread on Warner for HOF wasn't enough . . .

Warner for HOF?

and that one wasn't enough with the one that I started . . .

Warner for HOF?

Pretty much, yeah.Countdown to next Warner for HOF thread in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....

 

[Rooni]

I heard Peter King say before the season started Warner would need at least 3 more seasons of top production or a superbowl or another mvp to have a serious chance at getting in.

He is a voter fwiw.

 

[Tau837]

I voted outside chance but IMO he would really need to lead the Cardinals to a superbowl win to even get legitimate conversation about it. The HOF is for the elite not for the very good. He's not elite in my opinion

I don't see how you could call a three-time MVP "not elite." He didn't have a consistent career, but for an individual there is nothing more elite than the league MVP award.

He's had 2 very good/great ( and 2 good) years in the NFL and happened to win the MVP in both of those years. I think he's talented but injuries and a late start to his career IMO is going to stop him from getting into the HOF. 2 Great seasons do not make a player elite. He had/has the potential, but you don't get into the HOF based on extrapolating stats into what if scenarios. Now if he gets a 3rd MVP (I don't think he's close to being considered for it this year, as of now at least) yes that would help his chances. However, I believe his chances are helped much more by leading the cardinals to a superbowl victory. I'd have a lot harder time arguing against a qb that took 2 different teams to superbowl victories than a qb that won 3 MVP awards To me, an elite player is someone who is consistently excellent for an extended period of time.

at "happened to win the MVP in both of those years." Like players just "happen" to win the NFL MVP award.

 

[Tau837]

In the other thread, I said that if he won a third MVP, which was the premise in the OP of that other thread David linked above, he would make it.

I'm not aware of any 2 time MVPs in NFL history that are not in the HOF. And I am only aware of one other 3 time MVP - Favre, who is obviously a HOF lock. On top of that, he has a Super Bowl championship and Super Bowl MVP. And he has two of the best passing seasons in NFL history - 1999 and 2001 - and would have had a third in 2000 if he didn't get hurt. That is about as strong a peak as a player can have.

Under the premise of the OP in this thread, he would have another great season this year and lead Arizona to the playoffs. Arizona, which has missed the playoffs for 9 straight seasons, going 49-95 over that span. That is a significant accomplishment to go along with the third MVP.

So, yes, this premise is enough IMO. But I think in large part because of the incredible accomplishment of 3 MVPs. If he doesn't win a third MVP or another Super Bowl, I do agree he needs more than just another good season... probably a few more.

 

[azgroover]

Here's what the awesome search feature returns if you search for "Kurt Warner HOF" on the boards:

One or all of your search keywords were below 4 characters or you searched for words which are not allowed, such as 'html', 'img', etc, please go back and increase the length of these search keywords or choose different keywords.

 

[Super King]

FUMBLES

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Terrell Davis has to mkae it in first IMO...I know they play different positions but Davis exploded for about 4 years, won back to back SB too, rushed for over 2,000 yds, c'mon now.

 

[Tau837]

Terrell Davis has to mkae it in first IMO...I know they play different positions but Davis exploded for about 4 years, won back to back SB too, rushed for over 2,000 yds, c'mon now.

As of right now, I don't think either one deserves it. But if Warner gets an MVP, which requires another great season and leading Arizona to the playoffs, Warner's case is stronger than Davis's.3 MVPs + 1 Super Bowl MVP + 1/2 Super Bowl wins >> 1 MVP + 1 Super Bowl MVP + 2 Super Bowl wins