Kyle Orton - named the starting QB (1 Viewer)

[Cecil Lammey]

just passing it along. The Broncos have named Kyle Orton the starting QB of the Denver Broncos according to FM Sportsradio 104.3 The Fan in Denver.

 

[obxlegends]

It looks like McDaniels is trying to put the Cutler fiasco behind him as quick as he can.

Love him or hate him, the one thing you can say about Kyle Orton is that he's a winner. He's had a winning record in all three seasons in which he started in Chicago.

Brandon Marshall obviously takes a hit here fantasy wise.

 

[Couch Potato]

I saw in the other Orton thread the Denver Post report on it. Can you clarify whether the announcement was for the start of training camp or for the start of the regular season? There was no direct quote in the article from McDaniels. I'd be surprised if he's actually naming his regular season starter at this point, but putting him atop the TC depth chart has probably been assumed by most of us.

 

[obxlegends]

Sounds like per the press conference on DenverBroncos.com that Orton's the starter for the season although McDaniels left the door open for training camp with the "there's always competition" comment.

"Kyle has the job right now, but we'll see if he can keep it."

 

[Dave Larkin]

Interesting stuff, Cecil. Thanks for the heads up.

I have a draft tomorrow, so that may just change my plans a tad.

 

[Courtjester]

This year is going to be a disaster. With Cutlelr gone, Marshall possibly holding out or "faking" an injury a complete revamp of the offense, which will effectively end any chance of a 1000 yard rusher, a defense on the rebuild and the fact they traded away the almost guaranteed top 8 pick next year to Seattle, means 4-12 at best for this team and probably more of the same next year.

Some want to compare Orton to Dilfer--a game manager type QB and that worked out okay for those teams, but those teams had GOOD DEFENSES. The Broncos are in full out rebuild mode and did absolutely nothing to address their defensive front.

I need to get happy because I am absolutely not looking forward to this Bronco season or my FFL season for the first time in 20 years.

 

[millertyme1]

This year is going to be a disaster. With Cutlelr gone, Marshall possibly holding out or "faking" an injury a complete revamp of the offense, which will effectively end any chance of a 1000 yard rusher, a defense on the rebuild and the fact they traded away the almost guaranteed top 8 pick next year to Seattle, means 4-12 at best for this team and probably more of the same next year.Some want to compare Orton to Dilfer--a game manager type QB and that worked out okay for those teams, but those teams had GOOD DEFENSES. The Broncos are in full out rebuild mode and did absolutely nothing to address their defensive front.I need to get happy because I am absolutely not looking forward to this Bronco season or my FFL season for the first time in 20 years.

Orton is going to be asked to consistently win games in Denver this year. Something he didn't have to do consistently with my Bears.Not going to say anything other than the obvious, but that Denver defense last year was atrocious. One of the worst I've seen in the last decade. I'm not a Bronco fan & I was embarrassed. There are still enormous holes everywhere in that defense. I'm a big Moreno fan, but I would of spent every single early round pick on defense.

 

[Faust]

The Broncos should be trailing in the 2nd half of a majority of their games this year - should be solid opportunities for a QB to pad their stats with more passing attempts this year as they play from behind, IMHO.

Garbage time yards and TDs as well, especially if they are significantly behind in the 4th quarter.

 

[Gopher State]

The Broncos should be trailing in the 2nd half of a majority of their games this year - should be solid opportunities for a QB to pad their stats with more passing attempts this year as they play from behind, IMHO.Garbage time yards and TDs as well, especially if they are significantly behind in the 4th quarter.

don't forget to add lots of garbage INT's and fumbles, were talking Orton here you know

 

[CaptainHook]

I don't think there has ever been a player more mis-valued than orton.

It's funny to watch you guys pile on this guy with uninformed BS.

 

[Sinn Fein]

The Broncos should be trailing in the 2nd half of a majority of their games this year - should be solid opportunities for a QB to pad their stats with more passing attempts this year as they play from behind, IMHO.Garbage time yards and TDs as well, especially if they are significantly behind in the 4th quarter.

don't forget to add lots of garbage INT's and fumbles, were talking Orton here you know

The same Orton with fewer turnovers than Cutler?Orton was a decent QB in a run-first offense. He'll be fine in a more pass friendly offense, with better weapons at his disposal.

 

[Bri]

still think simms might be better

really not an orton fan at all.

This does help for rankings though

 

[CaptainHook]

orton haters...would you mind explaining why you don't like him/keep bashing him?

 

[Bri]

orton haters...would you mind explaining why you don't like him/keep bashing him?

nothing to him, it's a star positionnot even a game manager that makes few mistakes but has value in that he doesn't make many.

 

[Couch Potato]

orton haters...would you mind explaining why you don't like him/keep bashing him?

Because his name is missing an H and I don't like it.What if I had to read "orton ears a ho" to my kids? Not good to be missing 1st letters. Not good at all.

 

[a_troll00]

This year is going to be a disaster. With Cutlelr gone, Marshall possibly holding out or "faking" an injury a complete revamp of the offense, which will effectively end any chance of a 1000 yard rusher, a defense on the rebuild and the fact they traded away the almost guaranteed top 8 pick next year to Seattle, means 4-12 at best for this team and probably more of the same next year.Some want to compare Orton to Dilfer--a game manager type QB and that worked out okay for those teams, but those teams had GOOD DEFENSES. The Broncos are in full out rebuild mode and did absolutely nothing to address their defensive front.I need to get happy because I am absolutely not looking forward to this Bronco season or my FFL season for the first time in 20 years.

Thanks to McDaniels trading away next year's first round draft pick, there's not even a point in hoping the Broncos tank the season.

 

[Jason Wood]

The Broncos are damned if they do, damned if they don't this year. I fear this is going to be a LONG season in the Mile High City.

 

[Avery]

orton haters...would you mind explaining why you don't like him/keep bashing him?

Something about the neck beard really gets under my skin.That and I think he lacks the skills to be a dynamic QB. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would be great to have as a backup.

 

[Bri]

The Broncos are damned if they do, damned if they don't this year. I fear this is going to be a LONG season in the Mile High City.

unless the rook RB gets going...right?that's about how I feel. That kid is so very important I almost feel bad for the rook.

 

[Beefeaters]

Orton will be a fine QB for Denver this season. The biggest issue is Marshall. He changes the dynamic of the entire offense by either being there or not. But either way, Orton will be decent. No reason for people to be so nervous about him.

 

[Gargoylez]

Mcdaniels is an idiot. Flat out, plain and simple. Couldn't of made worse decisions with Cutler (whether or not Cutler was a baby about is a whole other topic, though McDainels handled it as bad as one could), the draft had one bad decision after another, and now not allowing the competition to go to real time action (pre-season) is flat out horrible...

Orton could be just fine as the QB, I have no issues with keeping the possibilities open to Orton flourishing in the offense.

I have my questions... Orton doesn't have a very good arm. He was in a run orientated offense, his WIN total is skewed and is somewhat of a joke plus the offense that was run in Chicago seemed to be NOTHING like what Genius McDaniels wants to install.

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue)and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

It all comes down to one thing. If the deal with Cutler involved SIMMS as QB then SIMMS would be the starting QB. Plain and simple. McDaniels ego and trail of crappery is just to much for him to go with a guy who was not part of the Cutler deal... I mean if Simms starts over Orton then, Why did they bother with Orton in the trade? He would look like a "fool." errrrr to late.

Feel bad for Simms... IMO a much better QB. Not that Orton won't do well, he very well might but I am downgrading ALL receivers on the Broncos. Plus I place McDaniels on the one year and out list unless the owner himself can't get over his ego too.

 

[switz]

Reading through this thread is hilarious...

#1 - Everyone should have known Orton was going to open as the starter. And those who say they did, there are threads to be bumped you know.

#2 - Orton is a far better QB than most people here think. He can make every throw, he's smart, and he has moxie.

#3 - Having a bad defense is good for QBs, and WRs. Not sure why anyone would bump the DEN passing offense down their charts with this news.

 

[switz]

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue) and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

Actually I think it's for the one making this most ludicrous statement to prove it... not for the rest of us to disprove it.

 

[Gargoylez]

#2 - Orton is a far better QB than most people here think. He can make every throw, he's smart, and he has moxie.#3 - Having a bad defense is good for QBs, and WRs. Not sure why anyone would bump the DEN passing offense down their charts with this news.

"far better" QB? Unless you have some inside info I will disagree wholeheartedly. He is a serviceable QB and in all seriousness... that is ALL we know. Orton was the by product of a system that emphasized "just don't lose." When you are a run first offense... most likely it's because you don't have a good QB. Orton's win total was because of a good defense and a good special teams. As far as Fantasy I agree 100%. It will make him more viable as a 2nd / backup QB for your roster. But I can't see Denver winning more then 4-5 games this year. If I am wrong I will gladly say I am wrong and eat hat. But those 5 wins will be against Oakland, Kansas City and a few teams that were sleeping when they played Denver.

 

[DrJ]

He can make every throw

I stopped reading here. No, he can't.

 

[Gargoylez]

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue) and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

Actually I think it's for the one making this most ludicrous statement to prove it... not for the rest of us to disprove it.

I shouldnt even reply to what seems to be the most uninformed post in the thread. Did you not watch SIMMS? His arm is one of the strongest in the league, the guy took a BEATING in Tampa and it took a SPLEEN to stop him. Simms still has alot of flaws, but physical attributes... no. He is superior to Orton.

I find it AMAZING that people just assume that a player gains all these magical skills and attributes just because he switches teams.... Orton is average and he has an opportunity to extend himself to Above average with this opportunity.

Just trying to keep people in the "real." Lets not talk crazy.

 

[AllVolUT]

Regardless of varying opinions, if Orton keeps his job this year (which IMO he will) he is an absolute value at an ADP of QB17. Last year Orton finished as QB18, despite missing a game and a half. This year, he is in an unquestionably better situation for a fantasy QB.

Orton as a NFL QB: I'm not quite sure I've seen enough to make a judgment.

Orton as a fantasy QB: severely underrated.

 

[travdogg]

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue) and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

Actually I think it's for the one making this most ludicrous statement to prove it... not for the rest of us to disprove it.

I shouldnt even reply to what seems to be the most uninformed post in the thread. Did you not watch SIMMS? His arm is one of the strongest in the league, the guy took a BEATING in Tampa and it took a SPLEEN to stop him. Simms still has alot of flaws, but physical attributes... no. He is superior to Orton.

I find it AMAZING that people just assume that a player gains all these magical skills and attributes just because he switches teams.... Orton is average and he has an opportunity to extend himself to Above average with this opportunity.

Just trying to keep people in the "real." Lets not talk crazy.

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

In 2006 Simms was awful, if Gradkowski wouldn't have been the #2 guy(like if they'd held on to Griese) Simms likely would have been benched before the spleen injury happens. In fact, even in 2005 its not like Simms was even better than Griese, the same Brian Griese who Chicago dumped to give Orton his second chance at starting.

I'm not saying Orton is going to be a stud(though I do think he's very underrated) but Chris Simms isn't, nor will he be a real threat to be a starter in the NFL. He was never that good to begin with and since the spleen injury he hasn't magically gotten better.

Simms may have better arm strength than Orton, but who cares? Orton avoids INT's better, is more accurate(not that either are great there) and is a far better game manager and he proved all that despite being in a worse situation than Simms.

 

[Avery]

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue) and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

Actually I think it's for the one making this most ludicrous statement to prove it... not for the rest of us to disprove it.

I shouldnt even reply to what seems to be the most uninformed post in the thread. Did you not watch SIMMS? His arm is one of the strongest in the league, the guy took a BEATING in Tampa and it took a SPLEEN to stop him. Simms still has alot of flaws, but physical attributes... no. He is superior to Orton.

I find it AMAZING that people just assume that a player gains all these magical skills and attributes just because he switches teams.... Orton is average and he has an opportunity to extend himself to Above average with this opportunity.

Just trying to keep people in the "real." Lets not talk crazy.

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

In 2006 Simms was awful, if Gradkowski wouldn't have been the #2 guy(like if they'd held on to Griese) Simms likely would have been benched before the spleen injury happens. In fact, even in 2005 its not like Simms was even better than Griese, the same Brian Griese who Chicago dumped to give Orton his second chance at starting.

I'm not saying Orton is going to be a stud(though I do think he's very underrated) but Chris Simms isn't, nor will he be a real threat to be a starter in the NFL. He was never that good to begin with and since the spleen injury he hasn't magically gotten better.

Simms may have better arm strength than Orton, but who cares? Orton avoids INT's better, is more accurate(not that either are great there) and is a far better game manager and he proved all that despite being in a worse situation than Simms.

Switz and Gargoylez do because that's exactly what they are disagreeing about.

 

[DrJ]

Regardless of varying opinions, if Orton keeps his job this year (which IMO he will) he is an absolute value at an ADP of QB17. Last year Orton finished as QB18, despite missing a game and a half. This year, he is in an unquestionably better situation for a fantasy QB.Orton as a NFL QB: I'm not quite sure I've seen enough to make a judgment.Orton as a fantasy QB: severely underrated.

The problem is, he played like a QB8 or so before missing that game and a half. When he came back, he looked more like QB25. Which was pretty much what he has been his entire career.

 

[Gargoylez]

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue) and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

Actually I think it's for the one making this most ludicrous statement to prove it... not for the rest of us to disprove it.

I shouldnt even reply to what seems to be the most uninformed post in the thread. Did you not watch SIMMS? His arm is one of the strongest in the league, the guy took a BEATING in Tampa and it took a SPLEEN to stop him. Simms still has alot of flaws, but physical attributes... no. He is superior to Orton.

I find it AMAZING that people just assume that a player gains all these magical skills and attributes just because he switches teams.... Orton is average and he has an opportunity to extend himself to Above average with this opportunity.

Just trying to keep people in the "real." Lets not talk crazy.

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

In 2006 Simms was awful, if Gradkowski wouldn't have been the #2 guy(like if they'd held on to Griese) Simms likely would have been benched before the spleen injury happens. In fact, even in 2005 its not like Simms was even better than Griese, the same Brian Griese who Chicago dumped to give Orton his second chance at starting.

I'm not saying Orton is going to be a stud(though I do think he's very underrated) but Chris Simms isn't, nor will he be a real threat to be a starter in the NFL. He was never that good to begin with and since the spleen injury he hasn't magically gotten better.

Simms may have better arm strength than Orton, but who cares? Orton avoids INT's better, is more accurate(not that either are great there) and is a far better game manager and he proved all that despite being in a worse situation than Simms.

I never said Simms was perfect. He just physically is a better QB. Orton hasn't shown he is much better in decision making either. Again a running offense with a great D allows the QB's to play it safe... a running offense HIDES a mediocre QB.and if you want to add in about Simms and his performance, I introduce those years in question; one of the worst offensive lines in the league, one of the worst rushing offenses in the league and a wicked complicated offense. Can I say, Simms would flourish in another system? Absolutely not... but you want a QB to make "all the throws" Simms is your man. You want to manage the game, run the crap out of the ball and hope your Defense/Special teams kicks it into high gear... probably Orton is your man.

Simms hasnt had it easy... rarely does a QB have it easy with Gruden. Can't say Simms would be better or worse with a different offense... but if the Broncos open up the offense, I doubt Orton is going to be HUGELY effective... but then again that is just my opinion. Orton may very well do well, but basing it off of his history, I can't see him doing any better then above average or a solid back up QB. It will DEFINITELY knock down the WR/TE's on the Broncos... Say what you will about Cutler, but orton is no Cutler and never will be.

 

[Couch Potato]

This may be one of those cases where the backup going into the regular season gets his shot anyway because the team is losing and a QB change is made to try to shake things up. I don't know that I want to roster both guys just to insure having "Denver QB" though, which will IMO be pretty mediocre in the first year of a new offense.

 

[Bri]

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

All we know is Simms practiced well in TEN and he seemed to take to their tutelage.I don't think Gruden is a good QB coach at all. I can't recall the last time Tampa had a QB play 4-5 years. Deberg? Vinny? While that may be too far back, it's been a while. There's little evidence of QB development.Didn't Gruden take over a team with a rookie that took them to Supe or NFCC? How'd his career turn out?

 

[the UFFRM]

Didn't Gruden take over a team with a rookie that took them to Supe or NFCC? How'd his career turn out?

Brad Johnson was no rookie.

 

[AllVolUT]

Regardless of varying opinions, if Orton keeps his job this year (which IMO he will) he is an absolute value at an ADP of QB17. Last year Orton finished as QB18, despite missing a game and a half. This year, he is in an unquestionably better situation for a fantasy QB.Orton as a NFL QB: I'm not quite sure I've seen enough to make a judgment.Orton as a fantasy QB: severely underrated.

The problem is, he played like a QB8 or so before missing that game and a half. When he came back, he looked more like QB25. Which was pretty much what he has been his entire career.

Yep. I definitely agree. However what do you do with this data?Some may say that the injury plagued him down the stretch, citing that the high ankle sprain was initially supposed to be a 3-4 week long injury (however he only sat out 1 game).Others may argue that he 'fell back down to earth' or 'regressed to the mean'.I tend to agree with the former. Even if you tend to agree with the latter, QB25 isn't even justifiable as his floor barring injury.

 

[TitusIII]

I don't think there has ever been a player more mis-valued than orton.It's funny to watch you guys pile on this guy with uninformed BS.

Watched plenty of Bears games over the past 4 years, it's hard to miss their games while living in St. Paul. He 'aint terrible, but he simply has no accuracy on throws longer than 10 yards. He makes logical/wise decisions more often than not, and he will not lose a game by himself. Not a fantasy starter due to his lack of big play ability, but I do believe he deserves a shot to stick around as starter. Good enough? He gets a bad rap due to the Bears failing to win a title with a SuperBowl worthy defense, and his piss-poor play while he was injured last season, but again, Orton isn't terrible. Pretty much the epitome of average NFL QB.

 

[DrJ]

Regardless of varying opinions, if Orton keeps his job this year (which IMO he will) he is an absolute value at an ADP of QB17. Last year Orton finished as QB18, despite missing a game and a half. This year, he is in an unquestionably better situation for a fantasy QB.Orton as a NFL QB: I'm not quite sure I've seen enough to make a judgment.Orton as a fantasy QB: severely underrated.

The problem is, he played like a QB8 or so before missing that game and a half. When he came back, he looked more like QB25. Which was pretty much what he has been his entire career.

Yep. I definitely agree. However what do you do with this data?Some may say that the injury plagued him down the stretch, citing that the high ankle sprain was initially supposed to be a 3-4 week long injury (however he only sat out 1 game).Others may argue that he 'fell back down to earth' or 'regressed to the mean'.I tend to agree with the former. Even if you tend to agree with the latter, QB25 isn't even justifiable as his floor barring injury.

Not sure that's entirely true - QB25 very well may be his floor. We're talking about a guy that in 33 career starts has only thrown for 250 yards 4 times. He's only hit 200 in 8 of those 33 games. At the same time, those 4 250 yard performances did come this season before the injury. It's possible that he had turned a corner and it was the injury that caused him to play so terribly down the stretch. And make no mistake, he did play terribly. So bad that it's difficult to find that argument entirely reasonable. It's possible that he's as bad as about 25 of his 33 career starts indicate and QB25 is his floor.I don't really buy the "winner" argument either. The guy was winning with QB ratings of 43.3, 42.8, 68.7, 60.7, and 23.7. He won 5 games in a row with those ratings. It was that incredible D that was winning games, not Kyle Orton by any stretch of the imagination. There's a reason Lovie benched him for a guy that missed almost the entire season with a leg injury that had proven nothing in his career. And that guy also happened to look good for a stretch of games himself.

 

[travdogg]

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.

His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

All we know is Simms practiced well in TEN and he seemed to take to their tutelage.I don't think Gruden is a good QB coach at all. I can't recall the last time Tampa had a QB play 4-5 years. Deberg? Vinny? While that may be too far back, it's been a while. There's little evidence of QB development.

Didn't Gruden take over a team with a rookie that took them to Supe or NFCC? How'd his career turn out?

I apologize for the hijack, but this caught my eye. Just off the top of my head only about 30% of the NFL has a guy like that right now.You've got:

Brady

The Mannings

McNabb

Big Ben

Palmer

Hasselbeck

Bulger

Delhomme

By this time next year, its very possible the last 3 on that list are gone, Bulger is almost a lock.

Point is its pretty rare for a team to have a QB 4-5 years.

Back on topic, this Orton-Simms debate seems very similar to the Orton-Grossman debate.

 

[Gargoylez]

Didn't Gruden take over a team with a rookie that took them to Supe or NFCC? How'd his career turn out?

Brad Johnson was no rookie.

No it was Dungy, and it Was Shaun King. I am not sure if Shula was still the offensive coordinator (that was a long tenure) but it was definately... line your D up to kill someone and hope Shaun king doesn't lose the game.Johnson came in the same year as Gruden and after the first 8 mediocre games, Johnson caught on to what Gruden wanted (ala Rich Gannon) and played solid for the stretch to the Superbowl. I beleive it was 2000 was King, 2002 was Johnson.

 

[The Kansas Comet]

I don't think there has ever been a player more mis-valued than orton.

It's funny to watch you guys pile on this guy with uninformed BS.

Watched plenty of Bears games over the past 4 years, it's hard to miss their games while living in St. Paul. He 'aint terrible, but he simply has no accuracy on throws longer than 10 yards. He makes logical/wise decisions more often than not, and he will not lose a game by himself. Not a fantasy starter due to his lack of big play ability, but I do believe he deserves a shot to stick around as starter. Good enough? He gets a bad rap due to the Bears failing to win a title with a SuperBowl worthy defense, and his piss-poor play while he was injured last season, but again, Orton isn't terrible. Pretty much the epitome of average NFL QB.

That's the part of Orton's game that would have me concerned if I rooted for the Broncos. While his completion percentage and yards per attempt have increased each year, in the games I've watched he has shown no ability to consistently put the ball on target down the field. Perhaps the Denver coaching staff will find something with his mechanics that can be corrected (I wouldn't argue if someone wanted to say that Orton will receive better QB coaching now that he's in Denver - I think Lovie's staff isn't very good at that), but if not, then I see no reason to expect him to throw the ball better on passes 10+ yards from the line of scrimmage.

 

[Beefeaters]

So the entire coaching staff of a professional football team has gotten it completely wrong after working closely with both Simms and Orton? Not likely. A lot of athletes look great on paper (look at past combine results) but that doesn't mean it translates into mastery of their respective positions. The Denver coaches have determined that Orton is better suited to start for them, and it's pretty foolish to think that anyone here knows better than they do.

 

[obxlegends]

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

All we know is Simms practiced well in TEN and he seemed to take to their tutelage.I don't think Gruden is a good QB coach at all. I can't recall the last time Tampa had a QB play 4-5 years. Deberg? Vinny? While that may be too far back, it's been a while. There's little evidence of QB development.Didn't Gruden take over a team with a rookie that took them to Supe or NFCC? How'd his career turn out?

Trent Dilfer from 95-99.He went on to win a Super Bowl with the Ravens and to a lessor degree was responsible for the proliferation of the term "game manager."

 

[Avery]

So the entire coaching staff of a professional football team has gotten it completely wrong after working closely with both Simms and Orton? Not likely. A lot of athletes look great on paper (look at past combine results) but that doesn't mean it translates into mastery of their respective positions. The Denver coaches have determined that Orton is better suited to start for them, and it's pretty foolish to think that anyone here knows better than they do.

It's "not likely" and "foolish" to think that an NFL team can make a poor personnel and occasionally base it partially on factors outside of performance?Do you really think that?

 

[KellysHeroes]

it really need to be pointed out that the New QB hasn't worked out w/ the "Star" (Marshall) WR yet and most likely won't workout w/ him until Aug. This isn't good.

 

[Beefeaters]

So the entire coaching staff of a professional football team has gotten it completely wrong after working closely with both Simms and Orton? Not likely. A lot of athletes look great on paper (look at past combine results) but that doesn't mean it translates into mastery of their respective positions. The Denver coaches have determined that Orton is better suited to start for them, and it's pretty foolish to think that anyone here knows better than they do.

It's "not likely" and "foolish" to think that an NFL team can make a poor personnel and occasionally base it partially on factors outside of performance?Do you really think that?

I'm going to assume that each professional coaching staff is going to make the decisions that they sincerely believe will give their team the best chance to win (unless presented with evidence to the contrary). Right now, FF message board opinions that giving Orton the start over Simms is based solely upon a rookie HC's ego doesn't quite cut it as evidence in my opinion.

 

[PrimUomo]

You cannot look at how orton played with the bears, with the broncos. Fundamentally different mindsets. Orton has to take risks and use his arm rather than play safe. If he suceeds it will be through traits he hasn't used professionally. If he has a high football IQ and learns the playbook he will win the job. Simms' inherent flaw is his left-handedness. You pretty much have to flip the entire offense to be manageable.

 

[Avery]

So the entire coaching staff of a professional football team has gotten it completely wrong after working closely with both Simms and Orton? Not likely. A lot of athletes look great on paper (look at past combine results) but that doesn't mean it translates into mastery of their respective positions. The Denver coaches have determined that Orton is better suited to start for them, and it's pretty foolish to think that anyone here knows better than they do.

It's "not likely" and "foolish" to think that an NFL team can make a poor personnel and occasionally base it partially on factors outside of performance?Do you really think that?

I'm going to assume that each professional coaching staff is going to make the decisions that they sincerely believe will give their team the best chance to win (unless presented with evidence to the contrary). Right now, FF message board opinions that giving Orton the start over Simms is based solely upon a rookie HC's ego doesn't quite cut it as evidence in my opinion.

McDaniels clearly thinks the best thing for the Broncos is to have a clear pecking order at QB going into training camp but to pretend that it is entirely performance based after McDaniels has watched them in practice for all of maybe 5 or 6 OTAs seems a little naive to the bigger picture.I'm not saying that Orton isn't the better QB here, but there are clear motivations for McDaniels to name a starting QB before camp outside the realm of how they play on the field.Also and again to you're original point, professional coaching staffs routinely make crappy personnel decisions.

 

[FUBAR]

Why not give Simms a shot? Simms flat out has better physical attributes, that is WITHOUT question (so please don't even argue) and ran the most complicated offense in the NFL. There is little, in my eyes, that puts Orton ahead of Simms... but then again when a head coach can't even manage to keep a sure thing (like Cutler) I guess its very believable.

Actually I think it's for the one making this most ludicrous statement to prove it... not for the rest of us to disprove it.

I shouldnt even reply to what seems to be the most uninformed post in the thread. Did you not watch SIMMS? His arm is one of the strongest in the league, the guy took a BEATING in Tampa and it took a SPLEEN to stop him. Simms still has alot of flaws, but physical attributes... no. He is superior to Orton.

I find it AMAZING that people just assume that a player gains all these magical skills and attributes just because he switches teams.... Orton is average and he has an opportunity to extend himself to Above average with this opportunity.

Just trying to keep people in the "real." Lets not talk crazy.

Its not like Simms was playing well before the spleen injury.His play in 2005 was no better than Orton's last season and that was with superior weapons and coaching and 4 years ago.

In 2006 Simms was awful, if Gradkowski wouldn't have been the #2 guy(like if they'd held on to Griese) Simms likely would have been benched before the spleen injury happens. In fact, even in 2005 its not like Simms was even better than Griese, the same Brian Griese who Chicago dumped to give Orton his second chance at starting.

I'm not saying Orton is going to be a stud(though I do think he's very underrated) but Chris Simms isn't, nor will he be a real threat to be a starter in the NFL. He was never that good to begin with and since the spleen injury he hasn't magically gotten better.

Simms may have better arm strength than Orton, but who cares? Orton avoids INT's better, is more accurate(not that either are great there) and is a far better game manager and he proved all that despite being in a worse situation than Simms.

I never said Simms was perfect. He just physically is a better QB. Orton hasn't shown he is much better in decision making either. Again a running offense with a great D allows the QB's to play it safe... a running offense HIDES a mediocre QB.and if you want to add in about Simms and his performance, I introduce those years in question; one of the worst offensive lines in the league, one of the worst rushing offenses in the league and a wicked complicated offense. Can I say, Simms would flourish in another system? Absolutely not... but you want a QB to make "all the throws" Simms is your man. You want to manage the game, run the crap out of the ball and hope your Defense/Special teams kicks it into high gear... probably Orton is your man.

Simms hasnt had it easy... rarely does a QB have it easy with Gruden. Can't say Simms would be better or worse with a different offense... but if the Broncos open up the offense, I doubt Orton is going to be HUGELY effective... but then again that is just my opinion. Orton may very well do well, but basing it off of his history, I can't see him doing any better then above average or a solid back up QB. It will DEFINITELY knock down the WR/TE's on the Broncos... Say what you will about Cutler, but orton is no Cutler and never will be.

Orton is a better manager, although he's no Ben. Simms is more talented physically, but he's no Peyton. Denver would probably be better off with a poor man's Ben than Peyton IF they can improve their defense. Either way, Denver is lucky their competition is weak but they're still fighting a 3 way race for 4th place in the division.

 

[CaptainHook]

Orton will be a fine QB for Denver this season. The biggest issue is Marshall. He changes the dynamic of the entire offense by either being there or not. But either way, Orton will be decent. No reason for people to be so nervous about him.

one of the very few good posts in this thread.Orton QB18 last year while injured for half the season.Somehow you guys seem to think he is going to be terrible while throwing 100+ more passes behind an incomparably better O-line to incomparably better WRs.He's played a grandtotal of 33 games and you're all completely ignoring his relative success to write him off as some abysmal career backup with no hope in the league. Face it, there are not many QBs who had stats as good as orton's in just their 2nd season as a starter. He was considered a project coming out of school and before the injury you could tell he had ironed out many of his issues. With McDaniels coaching him he should be even better.It's amazing what a few quips on ESPN from ignorant panelists can do to a guy's public perception. You're all 100% wrong on this one.

 

[millertyme1]

Considering he's done almost absolutely nothing in almost 4 years, Simms is lucky to be an NFL backup right now.

I think Orton's a fine game manager, I just think he's going to be in over his head with this Broncos team.