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Legal Marijuana & Probable Cause (1 Viewer)

Chemical X

Footballguy
so, was thinking of the new California law and that LIVE PD show.  on so many of those traffic stops, if the cop smells weed or sees weed he has probable cause to conduct a vehicle search.  what happens now in California and other legal states?  was also thinking of this, as I saw a new delivery service in California, that will car/truck deliver your weed order in 30 minutes. 

just curious......

 
so, was thinking of the new California law and that LIVE PD show.  on so many of those traffic stops, if the cop smells weed or sees weed he has probable cause to conduct a vehicle search.  what happens now in California and other legal states?  was also thinking of this, as I saw a new delivery service in California, that will car/truck deliver your weed order in 30 minutes. 

just curious......
This is going to sound really stupid, but isn't marijuana still a crime at the federal level? Doesn't federal law take precedence over state law? It's simply a matter of enforcement by the feds, really.  

Yeah, a quick Google search shows that it's still a federal violation. I guess it depends on enforcement and notions of federalism.

 
so, was thinking of the new California law and that LIVE PD show.  on so many of those traffic stops, if the cop smells weed or sees weed he has probable cause to conduct a vehicle search.  what happens now in California and other legal states?  was also thinking of this, as I saw a new delivery service in California, that will car/truck deliver your weed order in 30 minutes. 

just curious......
Pretty sure its still illegal to drive while being under the influence of weed

 
This is going to sound really stupid, but isn't marijuana still a crime at the federal level? Doesn't federal law take precedence over state law? It's simply a matter of enforcement by the feds, really.  

Yeah, a quick Google search shows that it's still a federal violation. I guess it depends on enforcement and notions of federalism.
honestly, I don't smoke, so I have no idea about this stuff.  I work for a company/industry that drug tests.  imagine buying and smoking legally, but your employer disallows it.

 
This is going to sound really stupid, but isn't marijuana still a crime at the federal level? Doesn't federal law take precedence over state law? It's simply a matter of enforcement by the feds, really.  

Yeah, a quick Google search shows that it's still a federal violation. I guess it depends on enforcement and notions of federalism.
It's way past them being able stop this freight train. It's all a #### dance now by the feds.

 
honestly, I don't smoke, so I have no idea about this stuff.  I work for a company/industry that drug tests.  imagine buying and smoking legally, but your employer disallows it.
Yeah, I'd say this is really a failure on the feds' part to not enforce their own federal laws the past decade as opposed to the movement towards legalization in general. That we have a system of prosecutorial discretion in place will leave people that believe that something is legal hung out to dry in certain ways.   

 
With no legal knowledge, I would have to agree with this. Even if you can smoke, its still illegal to operate a vehicle while impaired. 
yeah, but if a cop smells weed, they have probable cause for a search of the vehicle.  why, if weed is legal?  you can't have open alcohol in a vehicle, but how can I be searched if you smell a legal product?

 
You won't have to worry about this much longer. The fed bastards just started spinning the wheels to ruin it for everyone

 
It's way past them being able stop this freight train. It's all a #### dance now by the feds.
Yep. They slipped on it and now it's coming. I personally don't care or have strong feelings about it because I'm generally for drug legalization, but they had a chance to take the lead on this and passed it back to the states.  

 
Sessions is expected to announce that he will rescind that memo and instead leave it to U.S. attorneys in states where the drug is legal to decide to what extent they will enforce federal laws. California will most certainly ignore him.

Akin to doing nothing. Once the smoke clears (pun intended), marijuana stocks will be back in business.

Fabulous panic selloff in motion.

 
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Sessions is expected to announce that he will rescind that memo and instead leave it to U.S. attorneys in states where the drug is legal to decide to what extent they will enforce federal laws. California will most certainly ignore him.

Akin to doing nothing. Once the smoke clears (pun intended), marijuana stocks will be back in business.

Fabulous panic selloff in motion.
This is disastrous as policy, and was under President Obama. It's federalism, but it leaves tons of prosecutorial discretion. You think they won't abuse this? Time to have a national referendum both on pot and the DEA in general.  

 
I wonder what the auto insurance companies think about this. Are we going to see something akin to the drinking age and federal highway funds? Cali just legalized it. And they didn't just decriminalize it, either, from the sounds of it. They went all Cypress Hill on it. 

(nice dated reference, huh?)

 
I wonder what the auto insurance companies think about this. Are we going to see something akin to the drinking age and federal highway funds? Cali just legalized it. And they didn't just decriminalize it, either, from the sounds of it. They went all Cypress Hill on it. 

(nice dated reference, huh?)
Hell yeah they did, it's a huge windfall of tax $ for the state.

 
Hell yeah they did, it's a huge windfall of tax $ for the state.
Only a matter of time before the experiment of having an overweening federal system and SWAT teams breaking down doors before we realize how far we've come to a paramilitarized state and we ditch these laws for good. 

Not that I necessarily think it's all good that we do so. Restraint in law always requires moral and behavioral self-restraint. As Johnny Cash will tell you, he took a shot of cocaine and shot his woman down.  

 
The big quandry is that you can get charged with DUI for driving under the influence of more than alcohol.  You can get it for driving under the influence of either alcohol, medications, or illegal drugs.  Now that weed is legal--how will they test for that?  Weed stays in your system for a while--so a blood test would not be accurate.  You can't just go off of smell either because a lot of people that use weed use it in edible form.    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

 
W/ regard to driving under the influence: apparently there is a breathalyzer being developed that can detect TCH levels which LE can use during traffic stops. Not sure how accurate they are and when a full roll-out can be expected [in CA] but it’s in the works. 

 
The big quandry is that you can get charged with DUI for driving under the influence of more than alcohol.  You can get it for driving under the influence of either alcohol, medications, or illegal drugs.  Now that weed is legal--how will they test for that?  Weed stays in your system for a while--so a blood test would not be accurate.  You can't just go off of smell either because a lot of people that use weed use it in edible form.    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  
How do they test if people are under the influence of prescription drugs? Or other illegal drugs like heroin?

 
How do they test if people are under the influence of prescription drugs? Or other illegal drugs like heroin?
Urine and blood. Search incident to arrest, I think. Somebody in CA just got their license suspended for caffeine. No kidding.  

 
So then they'd do the same thing if they suspect someone is under the influence of weed.
Yeah, probably. I don't practice, but if I remember from school and recently having to pass the DMV test out here in CA, you can lose your license getting a DUI for medication or other substances. And your blood and urine will indeed pop on the test. I take ADHD medication and have to tell everyone when I go for drug screening because it pops for amphetamines.  

 
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How do they test if people are under the influence of prescription drugs? Or other illegal drugs like heroin?
Honestly--I'm not sure because I'm not sure how long those things stay in your system.   I can't imagine a bottle of NyQuil staying in your system for days/weeks like weed does--so maybe a blood test works there? I'm just guessing here and don't want to act like I'm speaking with any kind of scientific knowledge.   In regards to the illegal drugs--just having them is illegal--so if they see them in your car--you are already screwed. In the case of weed--it is legal to own just like alcohol is--it's just illegal to drive under the influence of it.   I think this could create a Pandora's box of issues until some sort of accurate test gets developed.  

 
So then they'd do the same thing if they suspect someone is under the influence of weed.
The problem is that weed stays in your system for weeks. You can have a cop that thinks you might be under the influence (and maybe you are just tired or are just a bonehead driver)--tests your blood/urine--and you could test positive for weed that you used days before you ever got in your car.  

 
Honestly--I'm not sure because I'm not sure how long those things stay in your system.   I can't imagine a bottle of NyQuil staying in your system for days/weeks like weed does--so maybe a blood test works there? I'm just guessing here and don't want to act like I'm speaking with any kind of scientific knowledge.   In regards to the illegal drugs--just having them is illegal--so if they see them in your car--you are already screwed. In the case of weed--it is legal to own just like alcohol is--it's just illegal to drive under the influence of it.   I think this could create a Pandora's box of issues until some sort of accurate test gets developed.  
Oh, you can test for weed. Easy. It stays in your system for a long time and the levels of it can be measured, I'd imagine.    

 
So then they'd do the same thing if they suspect someone is under the influence of weed.
That’s the rub: it’s reletively inexpensive for LE to run a field sobriety test and administer a breathalyzer during a traffic stop. It’s quite another to haul that person down to the station for blood/urine samples. 

 
That’s the rub: it’s reletively inexpensive for LE to run a field sobriety test and administer a breathalyzer during a traffic stop. It’s quite another to haul that person down to the station for blood/urine samples. 
The problem is that I'm not sure that blood or urine samples can pinpoint whether that marijuana was used at a time that would influence one's ability to drive.  A blood test could expose if somebody used weed. A blood/urine test cannot tell you if that weed was ingested at 5pm on Saturday night before somebody got in their car--or if that weed was used early Friday morning.   Until very accurate testing becomes available--I could see people that get charged with DUI for weed being able to fight the charges. 

 
Le'Veon Bell:  According to the criminal complaint, Bell told the officer at the scene: “I didn’t know you could get a DUI for being high. I smoked two hours ago. I’m not high anymore. I’m perfectly fine. Why would I be getting high if I had to make it to my game?”

 
Only a matter of time before the experiment of having an overweening federal system and SWAT teams breaking down doors before we realize how far we've come to a paramilitarized state and we ditch these laws for good. 

Not that I necessarily think it's all good that we do so. Restraint in law always requires moral and behavioral self-restraint. As Johnny Cash will tell you, he took a shot of cocaine and shot his woman down.  
That #### happened under Obama. In his first term he had DEA raiding hospice facilities that were supplying medical marijuana to dying people. 

 
That’s the rub: it’s reletively inexpensive for LE to run a field sobriety test and administer a breathalyzer during a traffic stop. It’s quite another to haul that person down to the station for blood/urine samples. 
Friend of mine has his medical card and was pulled over with weed on him. He showed the officer the card, the cop had him step out of his car and perform a sobriety test. He passed and was sent on his way. 

 
What the DOJ should be doing is pushing States with legal weed to release anyone in jail for possession or sale. How many poor black men are in jail for trying to make a loving selling weed? How many white people have gotten bank loans to begin their legal marijuana businesses? 

 
What the DOJ should be doing is pushing States with legal weed to release anyone in jail for possession or sale. How many poor black men are in jail for trying to make a loving selling weed? How many white people have gotten bank loans to begin their legal marijuana businesses? 
I think the next generation of advocates will be a lot different than the previous ones. It seems about time to have pardons, commuted sentences, etc.  

 
For those in CA... did every medical dispensary immediately start selling recreational, or is it only certain places?

 
I smell weed coming from your car
this is my point.........."yes, I bought it legally 15 minutes ago."  is there probable cause for a search?

from an article;

Much like alcohol — which is legal to consume but illegal to drive under the influence of — it’s against the law to drive stoned, and police can use that as a reason to pull you over, Casey said. With the legalization of recreational use, there may even be “increased attention” from law enforcement, he said, which could lead to an uptick in the number of officers claiming to have smelled marijuana coming from a car and using that as a reason to stop the driver.

Once a cop pulls someone over with probable cause, he's able to search anything in plain view inside the vehicle. If police are taking someone into custody, they can then also search the “grab area” of the car — that’s the visible interior such as the seats or personal items on them, Casey said. Cops are not allowed to search a car’s trunk without the driver’s consent.

“Even though it [marijuana] is legal in California and the Sheriff’s Department and the police officers, highway patrol, they’re tasked with enforcing primarily state law ... it’s technically, federally illegal,” Casey said.

This means no wiggle room for smokers at ports, federal buildings, facilities that deal with immigration and any other locations under the purview of national agencies. Airports are some of the most dangerous locations for weed users, Casey said, so in Colorado, the airport is surrounded by signs that remind visitors to ditch their dank before hopping on a plane.

“Just outside the airport it may be legal in the state, [but] once you go in the airport and you have it, big problem,” Casey said.

 
For those in CA... did every medical dispensary immediately start selling recreational, or is it only certain places?
in short: no. 

medical cannabis is still being sold at their normal locations, however only a limited number of recreational licenses have been issued by the state. further, each local municipality gets to decide if they want to have recreational operations licensed in their respective areas....it's not simply "you can by weed anywhere in CA". 

for example, i'm in Sonoma and the two nearest places to purchase recreational cannabis are in Sebastopol and Cotati, both about 30-45 minutes driving. iirc, SF still hasn't issued recreational licenses for the city proper, though Oakland and Berkeley have. i think a lot of places are going to wait and see how things shake out before committing or making a final decision.  

 
Pretty sure its still illegal to drive while being under the influence of weed
I think he's saying that the smell lingers for a long time, especially for a regular smoker of it (there will be plenty of regulars now with it legal). Just like cigs. You don't have to have just smoked it for you to smell like it.

 
I bought a vape pen (legally) a year or so ago.  The guy selling it to me said "if/when you have it in your car, make sure the cartridge of oil is disconnected from the pen and I'd advise keeping both in this metal case.  If a cop pulls you over and it's connected, your chances for being arrested and tested go way up."  So, I just follow that.

I think the wave of the future is vaping and edibles.  Neither will give off the odor good 'ol fashion rope smoking does.  It's going to make it harder for police to conduct probable cause absent smell.  

As others have pointed out, the problem with testing for pot is that it stays in your system for a long time.  What's the baseline for arrest?  Attorneys that practice in DUII are going to have a field day with this as they take cases to court they otherwise would have advised clients settling or pleading down to diversion or something similar.  

Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.  Been legal in Oregon now for over 2 years and I don't know of any increase rates in DUII or crimes as a result.  I do know the tax revenue has been high. (boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo)

 
.  

Will be interesting to see how this unfolds.  Been legal in Oregon now for over 2 years and I don't know of any increase rates in DUII or crimes as a result.  I do know the tax revenue has been high. (boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo)
So, this was wrong.  I found an article from our local paper entitled:  Legal Pot in Oregon One Year Later (it's dated June 2016, so it's, um, dated)

 

Police are finding more drivers under the influence of marijuana.

Between July 1 and Dec. 31 of last year, 50 drivers were accused of driving under the influence of marijuana, compared with 19 for the same time period the previous year, according to the latest Oregon State Police statistics.

Another 93 drivers were accused of having marijuana along with other drugs in their systems at the time they were stopped, compared with 44 the previous year.

Overall, the agency's data shows driving under the influence of any substance rose by 7 percent in 2015.

Sgt. Bob Ray, spokesman for the Washington County Sheriff's Office, said deputies have seen a similar upward trend among drivers, especially those combining alcohol and marijuana. His agency plans eventually to train all 186 deputies in evaluating whether a motorist is under the influence of drugs, including cannabis, he said.

"It's clearly much more than it was before" legalization, Ray said. "I don't know that people realize the effects, especially when you combine marijuana and alcohol, how much more impaired that makes you."

 
How to Avoid a Marijuana DUI

While the narrative above may seem unreasonable and unfair, it’s an accurate example of how simple it is for law enforcement to accuse a driver of driving under the influence of marijuana. Short of never using recreational or medical marijuana, or short of never driving, marijuana users have limited options to protect their rights. Some suggestions to avoid a false charge of driving under the influence of marijuana would be:

Do not drive within several hours of using marijuana. For example, if using marijuana at night, do not plan on driving until the next day (after a full night’s sleep).

If driving within 3-4 hours of using marijuana, make sure the psychoactive effects of the drug have worn completely off, and that you are no longer feeling mentally or physically affected by the drug. Because the effects of marijuana can cause problems with perception, it would obviously be ideal to have a sober third-party not affected by the use of any alcohol or drugs provide an additional opinion as to whether or not you’re negatively affected by the drug before you drive.

Make sure your vehicle is in good working order, drive carefully, and do not get pulled over. This is common sense, but it’s especially important if you’re driving late at night (when drivers are more likely to be pulled over anyway for suspected DUI due to alcohol).

If an officer asks you any questions about marijuana possession or use, politely decline to answer any questions (i.e. invoke your right to “remain silent”).

If an officer asks to search your vehicle, politely decline.

If an officer asks to search your purse, backpack, jacket, or pockets, politely decline.

If an officer asks you to do Standardized Field Sobriety Tests (SFTs), politely decline.

If you are arrested and asked to provide a urine test, demand an opportunity to contact or attempt to contact an attorney/lawyer.

If you are formally charged with DUI, contact an attorney immediately.
This is the same playbook attorneys provide for DUI Alcohol.

 
What the DOJ should be doing is pushing States with legal weed to release anyone in jail for possession or sale. How many poor black men are in jail for trying to make a loving selling weed? How many white people have gotten bank loans to begin their legal marijuana businesses? 
I give up. How many?

 
What the DOJ should be doing is pushing States with legal weed to release anyone in jail for possession or sale. How many poor black men are in jail for trying to make a loving selling weed? How many white people have gotten bank loans to begin their legal marijuana businesses? 
I only caught a piece of a show about this on NPR the other day, but apparently the answer to the bolded seems to be "almost none". The guest said that no bank is willing to risk its standing with the feds. The loans are coming from private entities. 

 
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What I find insane (whenever I read sob stories like that) is not only the lack of even a hint of personal accountability but also the degree to which these people are painted as complete victims. NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO DO ILLEGAL DRUGS! That is a choice. And (like all choices) it has consequences. I think its stupid marijuana is illegal in most places in this country and carries stiff penalties. That doesn't change the fact that its illegal in most places in this country and carries stiff penalties. People who know this and still choose to smoke out on the street in plain sight of the cops? That is ####### dumb. And then those same people want to cry about being under attack, futures ruined, families being broken apart, etc (as though some boogeyman jumped out of the bushes and just did this to them)? Seriously?? If those things are a concern, here's an idea: don't ####### smoke weed!! If a criminal record is going to negatively impact your career prospects, don't do #### that is going to get you a criminal record. Prioritize your family over getting high and you don't have to worry about being in jail while they are growing up. This is really not difficult, yet I am continually astonished by the lengths people will go to attempt to paint people (who make the conscious choice to do something they know is illegal) as victims when those people are caught and have to deal with the consequences of their choice. :loco:

 

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