LGBT, LGBTQ, LGBT+ Thread (4 Viewers)

[Manster]

Ok.  So it wasn’t a “strip show”.  
 

But we have a person, wearing something that has less square inches of material then one of my socks , with their simulated or not double Ds on full display (although nipples taped), collecting money from random people for strutting around   
 

now we have only seen 10 seconds of the video, but if we can be truthful for a second, I can’t imagine that she collected all that money just for being there  

im going to go out on a limb and assume that the parts we didn’t see involved some lap work, maybe some grinding  a dudes face between the breasts, and some split work that would make an Olympic gymnast jealous   
 

let’s not be so coy to think that they were tipping her/he just for taking a kid for a little walksee around thee room 

but now that we have established that this isn’t a strip joint. Are you ok if your kids teacher showed up for school like this? I mean it’s a school, not a strip joint, right?  How about a family function? A funeral? Or the coach of your kids soccer team? 

Why the F would anyone take a child to something like this?  

You know it's all starting to make sense......makes me think of the incident with the kids in my sons class I spoke of before (4th grade) who identified on the gender dysphoria spectrum, and were very inappropriate for their age. One detail of their behavior was referring to the tetherball pole as a stripper pole.....I'm not even kidding.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

1.  It was a strip show.

2.  How would you know the harm from giving a 5yr old a lap dance? 

1.  I don't care what is was or wasn't.  I wouldn't want to attend, and wouldn't want my kid to attend. 

2. That's the rub - who knows for sure .  Hence the battle and debate.  

 

[djmich]

1.  I don't care what is was or wasn't.  I wouldn't want to attend, and wouldn't want my kid to attend. 

2. That's the rub - who knows for sure .  Hence the battle and debate.  

Same for me on #1. 

For #2 I agree and its all subjective at the end of the day, my point was that conclusions can and must still be formed in the absence of empirical evidence (we have no such evidence with regard to lap dances for 5yr olds but it seems generally accepted thats "over the line").

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Same for me on #1. 

For #2 I agree and its all subjective at the end of the day, my point was that conclusions can and must still be formed in the absence of empirical evidence (we have no such evidence with regard to lap dances for 5yr olds but it seems generally accepted thats "over the line").

There's a bunch of different stuff going on with #2.  

Some of I'm sure is people who raised kids vs. people who didn't raise kids.  My guess is that a decent chunk of the "what's the harm, really?" people are childless or at least well-removed from their parenting days.  I think it's just a natural part of being a parent that you develop a sense of protectiveness around kids, and you just "know" that you shouldn't do things like let them run up and pet a strange dog.  It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if people who never had kids missed out on that.  The flip side here is that maybe it's the parents in the thread that are wrong, and we're falling victim to some evolutionary process that misfires in late adulthood or something.  

Then there's the fact that people who are politically conservative also have a tendency to be small-c conservative (don't fix things that aren't clearly and obviously broken) in real life, while the opposite tends to be true among political liberals.  Broad brush, obviously.  People who shrug their shoulders at things involving children and are like "Eh, it'll be fine" tend to be highly alarming to people like me.  If you're the sort of person who is inclined to defend social norms on the grounds that breaking them down might lead to unanticipated consequences (the "Chesterton's fence" argument), this particular story and suggestions that we should relax taboos around children and sex sets off about eighty bazillion alarm bells.  The flip side is that our resistance to change adds to the narrative that we're just religious fuddy-duddies who will turn our attention to banning school dances if we ever get the chance.  Add in the red-blue tribal aspect and you have an issue that lends itself really well to motivated reasoning.  

And then there's the more prosaic issue about different people having different comfort levels with stuff and having different levels of permissiveness in general.  I'm not sure how much that's really in play here though -- I'm normally on the permissive side of most parenting questions, but this one doesn't strike me as being even close to a line.  Maybe I just have a blind spot here, but I don't see any reason to think so.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

There's a bunch of different stuff going on with #2.  

Some of I'm sure is people who raised kids vs. people who didn't raise kids.  My guess is that a decent chunk of the "what's the harm, really?" people are childless or at least well-removed from their parenting days.  I think it's just a natural part of being a parent that you develop a sense of protectiveness around kids, and you just "know" that you shouldn't do things like let them run up and pet a strange dog.  It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if people who never had kids missed out on that.  The flip side here is that maybe it's the parents in the thread that are wrong, and we're falling victim to some evolutionary process that misfires in late adulthood or something.  

Then there's the fact that people who are politically conservative also have a tendency to be small-c conservative (don't fix things that aren't clearly and obviously broken) in real life, while the opposite tends to be true among political liberals.  Broad brush, obviously.  People who shrug their shoulders at things involving children and are like "Eh, it'll be fine" tend to be highly alarming to people like me.  If you're the sort of person who is inclined to defend social norms on the grounds that breaking them down might lead to unanticipated consequences (the "Chesterton's fence" argument), this particular story and suggestions that we should relax taboos around children and sex sets off about eighty bazillion alarm bells.  The flip side is that our resistance to change adds to the narrative that we're just religious fuddy-duddies who will turn our attention to banning school dances if we ever get the chance.  Add in the red-blue tribal aspect and you have an issue that lends itself really well to motivated reasoning.  

And then there's the more prosaic issue about different people having different comfort levels with stuff and having different levels of permissiveness in general.  I'm not sure how much that's really in play here though -- I'm normally on the permissive side of most parenting questions, but this one doesn't strike me as being even close to a line.  Maybe I just have a blind spot here, but I don't see any reason to think so.

I think it would be interesting to do some sort of thread about children and exposure to sexual content generally, apart from all the trans stuff.  It feels like we have very different perspectives.

 

[Captain Cranks]

There's a bunch of different stuff going on with #2.  

Some of I'm sure is people who raised kids vs. people who didn't raise kids.  My guess is that a decent chunk of the "what's the harm, really?" people are childless or at least well-removed from their parenting days.  I think it's just a natural part of being a parent that you develop a sense of protectiveness around kids, and you just "know" that you shouldn't do things like let them run up and pet a strange dog.  It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if people who never had kids missed out on that.  The flip side here is that maybe it's the parents in the thread that are wrong, and we're falling victim to some evolutionary process that misfires in late adulthood or something.  

Then there's the fact that people who are politically conservative also have a tendency to be small-c conservative (don't fix things that aren't clearly and obviously broken) in real life, while the opposite tends to be true among political liberals.  Broad brush, obviously.  People who shrug their shoulders at things involving children and are like "Eh, it'll be fine" tend to be highly alarming to people like me.  If you're the sort of person who is inclined to defend social norms on the grounds that breaking them down might lead to unanticipated consequences (the "Chesterton's fence" argument), this particular story and suggestions that we should relax taboos around children and sex sets off about eighty bazillion alarm bells.  The flip side is that our resistance to change adds to the narrative that we're just religious fuddy-duddies who will turn our attention to banning school dances if we ever get the chance.  Add in the red-blue tribal aspect and you have an issue that lends itself really well to motivated reasoning.  

And then there's the more prosaic issue about different people having different comfort levels with stuff and having different levels of permissiveness in general.  I'm not sure how much that's really in play here though -- I'm normally on the permissive side of most parenting questions, but this one doesn't strike me as being even close to a line.  Maybe I just have a blind spot here, but I don't see any reason to think so.

I'm still waiting for your reply to my offer in the other thread. Since it's all about protecting the kids, should be an easy decision for you. 

 

[parasaurolophus]

1.  I don't care what is was or wasn't.  I wouldn't want to attend, and wouldn't want my kid to attend. 

2. That's the rub - who knows for sure .  Hence the battle and debate.  

I see what you did there.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I think it would be interesting to do some sort of thread about children and exposure to sexual content generally, apart from all the trans stuff.  It feels like we have very different perspectives.

We probably don't if people answered honestly. 

 

[Captain Cranks]

We probably don't if people answered honestly. 

What's the honest answer? 

 

[KarmaPolice]

We probably don't if people answered honestly. 

This is an odd comment on a couple different levels.    

I think we 100% do, because there have been multiple comments and conversations about how people view sex stuff vs. violence in movies, shows, books.   There have been many times I feel like I am an alien with my views on those topics.   I think maybe this factor plays in a tad more that IK is suggesting, but do agree with this post about the factors involved here.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

What's the honest answer? 

I guess that everybody must agree with him?   

 

[parasaurolophus]

This is an odd comment on a couple different levels.    

I think we 100% do, because there have been multiple comments and conversations about how people view sex stuff vs. violence in movies, shows, books.   There have been many times I feel like I am an alien with my views on those topics.   I think maybe this factor plays in a tad more that IK is suggesting, but do agree with this post about the factors involved here.  

Have you ever taken your kids to go walk around with a pasty flashing drag queen or stripper at a bar?  

Yeah. Didn't think so. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Have you ever taken your kids to go walk around with a pasty flashing drag queen or stripper at a bar?  

Yeah. Didn't think so. 

No.  

Like I said, just look at reactions about movies, books, etc..  There is a wide range of acceptance as to what and when kids get exposed to those things.   I am in debates a lot of our weird culture of letting our kids see a ton of violence, but not anything sexual.  

So sure there are examples that the masses would probalby agree more on - like pasty wearing drag queens at a strip club. But fatguys' comment was about our tolerance of sexual things "in general" , and just think about conversations in here about if our kids have seen us nude (the Biden took a shower with his kids conversations),  a book in a school library that featured graphic sex acts, etc..  to think about how wide the range of opinions have been on this topic.    Or, I guess those posts weren't being honest? 

 

[parasaurolophus]

No.  

Like I said, just look at reactions about movies, books, etc..  There is a wide range of acceptance as to what and when kids get exposed to those things.   I am in debates a lot of our weird culture of letting our kids see a ton of violence, but not anything sexual.  

So sure there are examples that the masses would probalby agree more on - like pasty wearing drag queens at a strip club. But fatguys' comment was about our tolerance of sexual things "in general" , and just think about conversations in here about if our kids have seen us nude (the Biden took a shower with his kids conversations),  a book in a school library that featured graphic sex acts, etc..  to think about how wide the range of opinions have been on this topic.    Or, I guess those posts weren't being honest? 

Correct. I think the people arguing in here are just mostly being phony. They know this stuff is messed up, would never want their kids to be a part of it, but of course have to pick a team. 

Its real easy to say hey whats the big deal its just a bar, its just some boobie jiggling, its just a book describing grown kids having oral sex.

But yeah actually in your face and having to choose, pretty sure we pretty much mostly agree. 

 

[the moops]

Parents have little say in this.  Oppose your child being 'treated' and they will be taken away.  It happens routinely in Canada and there have been a few cased here in the US.  

It happens routinely in Canada? Need to some links for the that.

And if it happened a few times in the US, while terrible (assuming the sole reason was their opposition and no other harm was inflicted), we shouldn't go make sweeping generalizations because of a few cases.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Correct. I think the people arguing in here are just mostly being phony. They know this stuff is messed up, would never want their kids to be a part of it, but of course have to pick a team. 

Its real easy to say hey whats the big deal its just a bar, its just some boobie jiggling, its just a book describing grown kids having oral sex.

But yeah actually in your face and having to choose, pretty sure we pretty much mostly agree. 

 I think you are more right about this topic, but less so than other ones.   Just using myself and experiences as a guide there.  Ie I am with you here, and think most are, but there was a big difference in opinions about the bathroom nudity etiquette and showers and that discussion.   Same with the books and even if they should be allowed at the school.     I have 100s of examples of parents in my video stores renting all sorts of ####ed up horror movies for their kids, but inevitably what is the question I get asked?? Yep - "is there much nudity or sex in this?"  There is a wide spectrum of what we agree on in this realm.  

Also, as myself and Cranks have pointed out many times - it's not about if we would take our kids there, it's if the government should be able to tell other parents they can't take their kids there.    So yeah, you are right that most of us wouldn't take their kids to that event, but that is also not what the argument is.   But similar to the abortion debate - the concept that I would be OK with letting somebody choose something = I support that or would choose it for myself.  Incorrect.  

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

For some people this woke nonsense is like their religion. For some this is like taking their children to church.

LINK

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

LINK

Norville, I know you were just passing on a link and probably didn’t look at the timeline of the guy who posted it, but just FYI, that is not a dude anyone should be following. He is a hardcore white nationalist. I’m talking “Wishing Mussolini a happy birthday” hardcore

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

Norville, I know you were just passing on a link and probably didn’t look at the timeline of the guy who posted it, but just FYI, that is not a dude anyone should be following. He is a hardcore white nationalist

I don't follow him - but honestly I've been called a white nationalist (and worse) so much I'm not sure the label has any impact any more.

 

[the moops]

LINK

Not my thing, but people seem to be having a blast. Good for them

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I don't follow him - but honestly I've been called a white nationalist (and worse) so much I'm not sure the label has any impact any more.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that, unlike this guy, you don't celebrate Mussolini's birthday.

Seriously, this is not a case of "He has some right-of-center views so I'm going to call him a racist." This dude is blatantly racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic.

 

[matuski]

This whole effing topic is exhausting.

It isn't this hard to identify right and wrong.

 

[matuski]

Not my thing, but people seem to be having a blast. Good for them

Indeed - good for them.  Go for it.

But don't call it normal. It isn't.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I don't follow him - but honestly I've been called a white nationalist (and worse) so much I'm not sure the label has any impact any more.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that, unlike this guy, you don't celebrate Mussolini's birthday.

No I don't celebrate Mussolini's birthday. Any thoughts on the actual video?

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

No I don't celebrate Mussolini's birthday. Any thoughts on the actual video?

I'm Jewish so it's hard for me to get too offended by anything I see at a church service. I'm just not going to feel it at a visceral level.

If I saw that in a synagogue I would probably have the same reaction as @the moops: Not necessarily a service I'd want to attend, but if it's helping their parishioners establish a spiritual connection, who am I to judge? 

Now if they had partially nude strippers with dollar bills stuffed in their g-strings ...

 

[jon_mx]

It happens routinely in Canada? Need to some links for the that.

And if it happened a few times in the US, while terrible (assuming the sole reason was their opposition and no other harm was inflicted), we shouldn't go make sweeping generalizations because of a few cases.

Canadian Judge Strips Transgender Child’s Parents of Rights

Transgender teen’s father hit with ‘denunciatory’ six-month jail term for flouting court orders, publication bans

Father arrested for discussing child’s gender transition in defiance of court order

Canadian Dad Sentenced for Trying to Protect Daughter from Transgender Medical Procedures

 

[jon_mx]

Seriously, putting parents in jail for not wanting theor child mutilated.  What kind of authoritarian sickos has our society become?  

 

[Toby2ElectricBugaloo]

Seriously, putting parents in jail for not wanting theor child mutilated.  What kind of authoritarian sickos has our society become?  

Just in case anyone still gives this nonsense any credence, I checked the four links in the previous post, and this statement is not remotely close to accurate about any of them, of course.

 

[Max Power]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

 

[parasaurolophus]

How would you guys handle your son wanting to wear a dress?

 

[jon_mx]

Seriously, putting parents in jail for not wanting theor child mutilated. What kind of authoritarian sickos has our society become?

Just in case anyone still gives this nonsense any credence, I checked the four links in the previous post, and this statement is not remotely close to accurate about any of them, of course.

Here is just one excerpt which shows just how poorly you lie:

"A Canadian judge sentenced Rob Hoogland to six months in prison and fined him $30,000. His crime? He violated a court gag order and spoke out against testosterone shots being given – under court order – to his daughter, who was only 14 years old when a court approved the experimental, body-damaging treatment."

Let's shoot these kids up with hormone blockers so their genitals don't propey develop. Nice grooming.

 

[sho nuff]

How would you guys handle your son wanting to wear a dress?

If he wants to…if he is comfortable doing so…so what?

 

[parasaurolophus]

How would you guys handle your son wanting to wear a dress?

If he wants to…if he is comfortable doing so…so what?

At all ages is this your reply?

 

[sho nuff]

How would you guys handle your son wanting to wear a dress?

If he wants to…if he is comfortable doing so…so what?

At all ages is this your reply?

Maybe? Though, answered from my perspective of my 17 year old son. And if he wanted to wear a dress or skirt...so be it.
Is there an age I should not be ok with my child wearing a dress or skirt? Why does it matter?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Maybe? Though, answered from my perspective of my 17 year old son. And if he wanted to wear a dress or skirt...so be it.
Is there an age I should not be ok with my child wearing a dress or skirt? Why does it matter?

You can parent however you want.

If my 17 year old son wanted to wear a dress I would be way more accepting of it than if my 4 year old wanted to. A four year old is dumb and would eat lollipops for breakfast and wear water wings to school.

 

[timschochet]

Maybe? Though, answered from my perspective of my 17 year old son. And if he wanted to wear a dress or skirt...so be it.
Is there an age I should not be ok with my child wearing a dress or skirt? Why does it matter?

You can parent however you want.

If my 17 year old son wanted to wear a dress I would be way more accepting of it than if my 4 year old wanted to. A four year old is dumb and would eat lollipops for breakfast and wear water wings to school.

Why would you have a problem if your 4 year old son wore a dress? What’s wrong with it?

 

[Jayrod]

How would you guys handle your son wanting to wear a dress?

If he wants to…if he is comfortable doing so…so what?

At all ages is this your reply?

Maybe? Though, answered from my perspective of my 17 year old son. And if he wanted to wear a dress or skirt...so be it.
Is there an age I should not be ok with my child wearing a dress or skirt? Why does it matter?

My son is 16, so this is a bit relevant to me.

I would certainly want to have a discussion with my son and find out why he wanted to and depending on the answer (I don't see a lot of good reasons TO do it), would likely tried to dissuade him.

It is to try and stand out and get attention? To be funny? Because he wants to feel pretty and likes the "feel" of a dress? If any of those answers are yes, I think there are deeper issues to be addressed and discussed.

Gender dysphoria and cross dressing is typically a sign that something else is going on in the psyche of a person. Just shrugging your shoulders and saying "oh well, whatever" is a sign of a lazy parent. My kid wants to veer this far outside of the societal norms, I need to understand why and help them navigate it. Even at 17.

I'm not going to shun him and call him a homophobic name, but we'll try to figure out why and maybe get to the root cause of this desire.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Why would you have a problem if your 4 year old son wore a dress? What’s wrong with it?

If he wanted to wear a dress it is 99.9 % probable it is for a very stupid reason. Which is why I wouldnt let any of my kids dye their hair blue either.

The only way I would be ok with my son wearing a dress is if it was truly an issue of him feeling he is a girl. Obviously wouldnt want my kids to feel real pain regarding their gender identity. But short of that, I dont want my kids using their clothes and hair as critical differentiators.

For the record I dont even let my 5 year old daughter wear half the crap she wants to wear to school. Daddy can I wear my cinderella dress to school today? No. Dont be stupid. It is going to be 95 degrees today and that thing sheds glitter every where. That dress sucks, you can wear shorts and a tshirt.

Daddy can i get my hair cut like miss katie? Um no, because miss katie looks like she got vandalized at a packers game. Nobody needs green and yellow hair and to have it shaved on only one side.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What was your position before and what was it that made you rethink things?

 

[sho nuff]

Maybe? Though, answered from my perspective of my 17 year old son. And if he wanted to wear a dress or skirt...so be it.
Is there an age I should not be ok with my child wearing a dress or skirt? Why does it matter?

You can parent however you want.

If my 17 year old son wanted to wear a dress I would be way more accepting of it than if my 4 year old wanted to. A four year old is dumb and would eat lollipops for breakfast and wear water wings to school.

Well...this is different than feeding a kid straight sugar for breakfast. But what exactly is the harm of a 4 year old wearing a dress or skirt? (assuming its their choice and they are not being pressured to do so by anyone)

 

[sho nuff]

How would you guys handle your son wanting to wear a dress?

If he wants to…if he is comfortable doing so…so what?

At all ages is this your reply?

Maybe? Though, answered from my perspective of my 17 year old son. And if he wanted to wear a dress or skirt...so be it.
Is there an age I should not be ok with my child wearing a dress or skirt? Why does it matter?

My son is 16, so this is a bit relevant to me.

I would certainly want to have a discussion with my son and find out why he wanted to and depending on the answer (I don't see a lot of good reasons TO do it), would likely tried to dissuade him.

It is to try and stand out and get attention? To be funny? Because he wants to feel pretty and likes the "feel" of a dress? If any of those answers are yes, I think there are deeper issues to be addressed and discussed.

Gender dysphoria and cross dressing is typically a sign that something else is going on in the psyche of a person. Just shrugging your shoulders and saying "oh well, whatever" is a sign of a lazy parent. My kid wants to veer this far outside of the societal norms, I need to understand why and help them navigate it. Even at 17.

I'm not going to shun him and call him a homophobic name, but we'll try to figure out why and maybe get to the root cause of this desire.

Well...yes, of course there would be discussion and not just "oh well whatever".

 

[KarmaPolice]

I've come around to thinking this stuff is an INSANE topic for those under 18. There is no single size its all discussion on the issues. There is no single point of treatment that addresses everything. People pushing this stuff are hurting kids. Letting your kids be who they are is one thing. Anyone promoting it is awful.

What is your line of difference between promoting and being an accepting parent??

To me it seems like people equate allowing with promoting it, and I don't agree with that so was curious your thoughts.

 

[The Commish]

What is your line of difference between promoting and being an accepting parent??

To me it seems like people equate allowing with promoting it, and I don't agree with that so was curious your thoughts.

I live firmly in "this isn't going to end well for you, but it's your decision" land with my teenager. You can only tell them so many times that it's going to hurt when they touch the hot stove. At some point you have to let them burn themselves.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Well...this is different than feeding a kid straight sugar for breakfast. But what exactly is the harm of a 4 year old wearing a dress or skirt? (assuming its their choice and they are not being pressured to do so by anyone

You ask what is wrong with it. Thats the wrong question IMO. What is right about it?

What is so important about wearing a dress for a boy that outweighs any negative feedback or attention he may receive? What is so important about standing out by way of what you wear? Why would a 4 year old care so much?

 

[sho nuff]

Well...this is different than feeding a kid straight sugar for breakfast. But what exactly is the harm of a 4 year old wearing a dress or skirt? (assuming its their choice and they are not being pressured to do so by anyone

You ask what is wrong with it. Thats the wrong question IMO. What is right about it?

What is so important about wearing a dress for a boy that outweighs any negative feedback or attention he may receive? What is so important about standing out by way of what you wear? Why would a 4 year old care so much?

Who said it was about standing out?
I think its a great question to ask why people have such a problem if a male wears a dress or skirt.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Parent of a 12 year old daughter and 9 yr old son. They choose how they dress and wear their hair. Only caveat is it has to be appropriate (i.e. neither could wear a g-string to school).

My son wants to wear a dress? Have at it. My daughter wants to wear a Tatis jersey? Have at it.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Well...this is different than feeding a kid straight sugar for breakfast. But what exactly is the harm of a 4 year old wearing a dress or skirt? (assuming its their choice and they are not being pressured to do so by anyone

You ask what is wrong with it. Thats the wrong question IMO. What is right about it?

What is so important about wearing a dress for a boy that outweighs any negative feedback or attention he may receive? What is so important about standing out by way of what you wear? Why would a 4 year old care so much?

Who said it was about standing out?
I think its a great question to ask why people have such a problem if a male wears a dress or skirt.

What is right about it?

Letting a 4 year old boy wear a dress is just as dumb as letting him wear water wings all day.

And of course it would be about standing out. Because 4 year old boys in dresses stand out. I mean, thats kind of freaking obvious. And if the kid doesnt realize that, then a parent should. Like it or not we have cultural norms. Your kid isnt a pawn to challenge those norms when there is no benefit.

It is really easy to play the whats the big deal card. The default position these days of so many parents is to simply say yes to their kids every whim and desire without actually giving it a second thought.

In reality you can just say nope. No dress. And the boy moves on and probably forgets all about it. In the rare case where it remains a request(and not just because the child is accustomed to getting his way and wants to win) where you can see there are gender identity issues, you can make an adjustment.

Or you can enlighten us as to the benefits of boys wearing dresses.

 

[sho nuff]

Well...this is different than feeding a kid straight sugar for breakfast. But what exactly is the harm of a 4 year old wearing a dress or skirt? (assuming its their choice and they are not being pressured to do so by anyone

You ask what is wrong with it. Thats the wrong question IMO. What is right about it?

What is so important about wearing a dress for a boy that outweighs any negative feedback or attention he may receive? What is so important about standing out by way of what you wear? Why would a 4 year old care so much?

Who said it was about standing out?
I think its a great question to ask why people have such a problem if a male wears a dress or skirt.

What is right about it?

Letting a 4 year old boy wear a dress is just as dumb as letting him wear water wings all day.

And of course it would be about standing out. Because 4 year old boys in dresses stand out. I mean, thats kind of freaking obvious. And if the kid doesnt realize that, then a parent should. Like it or not we have cultural norms. Your kid isnt a pawn to challenge those norms when there is no benefit.

It is really easy to play the whats the big deal card. The default position these days of so many parents is to simply say yes to their kids every whim and desire without actually giving it a second thought.

In reality you can just say nope. No dress. And the boy moves on and probably forgets all about it. In the rare case where it remains a request(and not just because the child is accustomed to getting his way and wants to win) where you can see there are gender identity issues, you can make an adjustment.

Or you can enlighten us as to the benefits of boys wearing dresses.

Barring it not being inappropriately showing off his body...Id say wearing a skirt is fine. What is right about it? Ummm...all of it I guess? Not my thing, but if that is what he feels looks good or is fashionable and it hurts nobody at all for him to do it. He will understand that some may not see it that way and it may bring negative attention from some. Though, some probably already do that since he has long hair.

Not everything is about standing out. He may like the way it looks with something (same as he does now with a certain style or cut of pants/shorts).

Like it or not...cultural norms are typically pretty stupid and while slow to change...they do change. I don't give a flying rat's behind what a cultural norm says on something like this.
A pawn to challenge them...again if it is his choice to do so, he would not be playing the part of a pawn. Im not forcing him to wear a dress or not wear one.

Again...this is not just giving in and saying yes to everything...but understanding my kids already. Understanding that there are bigger fish to fry than if he wants to wear a dress or a skirt. And because some uptight stranger may have a problem with it...isn't a good reason to say he can't do it.

In reality...when I tell my kids they can't do something...it is because it may cause actual harm or be actually bad for them or someone else. Not because society deemed it would be wrong for whatever bogus reasoning.

Then benefit of my son wearing one if he wants to express fashion that way...is its good for him to express that again in true appropriateness and without hurting others. Again...in the case of my actual son. He got good grades, graduated with honors and distinction, earned scholarship money, and is heading to college that he chose. He worked for over a year an a half at the same job before leaving it...got a new one on his own not long after that where they have already said he does not have to "quit" because he goes to school. As long as they know ahead of times, he can plan weekends to come home and work some as well as on some of his breaks and they would like him back next summer.

So yeah...really not going to sweat it if he thinks he would like to wear a dress.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Well...this is different than feeding a kid straight sugar for breakfast. But what exactly is the harm of a 4 year old wearing a dress or skirt? (assuming its their choice and they are not being pressured to do so by anyone

You ask what is wrong with it. Thats the wrong question IMO. What is right about it?

What is so important about wearing a dress for a boy that outweighs any negative feedback or attention he may receive? What is so important about standing out by way of what you wear? Why would a 4 year old care so much?

Who said it was about standing out?
I think its a great question to ask why people have such a problem if a male wears a dress or skirt.

What is right about it?

Letting a 4 year old boy wear a dress is just as dumb as letting him wear water wings all day.

And of course it would be about standing out. Because 4 year old boys in dresses stand out. I mean, thats kind of freaking obvious. And if the kid doesnt realize that, then a parent should. Like it or not we have cultural norms. Your kid isnt a pawn to challenge those norms when there is no benefit.

It is really easy to play the whats the big deal card. The default position these days of so many parents is to simply say yes to their kids every whim and desire without actually giving it a second thought.

In reality you can just say nope. No dress. And the boy moves on and probably forgets all about it. In the rare case where it remains a request(and not just because the child is accustomed to getting his way and wants to win) where you can see there are gender identity issues, you can make an adjustment.

Or you can enlighten us as to the benefits of boys wearing dresses.

The benefits anyone receives while wearing clothes. Warmth from cold temperature, hygienic protection from bad stuff, protection from the sun, etc.

 

[jon_mx]

I have a niece in California and they have a boy in class who identifies as a dog. Gets to have a water bowl by his desk and wears a collar. The issue is these fantasies empower the kids. Teachers praise acceptance on these kids identifying differently and make them a hero for coming forward. Instead of being some poor white trash kid who is characterized as a privileged oppressor, it puts them on the pedestal where other kids can't touch them without being expelled. Of course this respect is only there because other kids are forced to or face these severe consequences, so it is not real. These kids develop into entitled brats who can only function in safe spaces. For every one kid that is truly suffer from gender dysphoria, there are a dozen kids who were enticed into this identity out of peer pressure or other issues that children deal with. Instead of getting to the root cause and figure out the truth, the transgender medical establishment just accepts this rapid onslaught of gender dysphoria without any critical studies. This is the only mental or medical condition which relies purely on self-diagnosis.....and that is really troubling when the self-diagnosis is a 6-year old child. I don't see the compassion in allowing a young child to start the process of becoming infertile. I see it as sick.