DanFouts
Footballguy
I mean LJ is really good, but better than LT? No way.....
http://www.sportsline.com/spin/story/9851249
http://www.sportsline.com/spin/story/9851249
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LJ better than LT.....please..... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DanFouts
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Michael Brown
Footballguy
Absolutely ridiculous piece.
Johnson had less turnover, for sure. So he went from having probably the best offensive line over several years to one that was merely very very good. I mean seriously, does it not count for something that he had more to begin with?
The comparison makes no sense. For example, say one guy has a million dollars and another guy has $100. If the guy with a million loses $900K, he still has a whole heck of a LOT more to work with than the guy with $100.
Johnson had less turnover, for sure. So he went from having probably the best offensive line over several years to one that was merely very very good. I mean seriously, does it not count for something that he had more to begin with?
The comparison makes no sense. For example, say one guy has a million dollars and another guy has $100. If the guy with a million loses $900K, he still has a whole heck of a LOT more to work with than the guy with $100.
Delusions Of Adequacy
Footballguy
Another 'sportswriter' drawing conclusions without actually watching the games of the players he's writing about.
Either that or he's just
Either that or he's just
I am not saying I agree with the article but how can poeple say that LT has had so much less than Johnson. The Chargers have an awsome amount of talent and LT is the best one. There is no way you can make an, LT is great with nothing or nobody around him argument.
Banger
Footballguy
Those losses caused his YPC to drop by 1 ypc from last year. He's still got several keys pieces on the line and they are still using Saunders system. LJ is having a very good year and is a very good rb but he never was nor will be as good as Tomlinson.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
I'm not saying Tomlinson has nothing around him, far from it. But clearly, he has improved his game personally this season with basically the same cast of characters (besides Brees/Rivers). So if the talent around him has helped him so much, then he should have been doing this for the past 2-3 seasons. And the QB change doesn't account for why his stats have spiked so significantly either.I took it like this guy is saying Johnson is better because he's playing great despite all these offensive losses. LJ is playing great, but the writer fails to account for the fact that Tomlinson is so far above and beyond better than LJ that the losses suffered by KC aren't significant enough to balance out the statistical difference. If LJ still had those two linemen and Trent Green doesn't get hurt, and Richardson is still around, does he eclipse 30 TD? Most likely not. That's my argument.
Michael Brown
Footballguy
And not to be confrontational, but you actually CAN make this argument. LT was great with virtually nothing or nobody around him early in his career for three seasons.
Banger
Footballguy
The Chargers line has been between horrible and average for LT's entire career until this year. To run the ball well you need a good line (unless you are an exceptional talent). This year as a result of good drafts over the last few years and notably the addition of McNeill at left tackle this year the Chargers finally have a good/not great line. That has enabled LT to raise his already good game another level. In the other corner you have LJ who was running behind what has been the best line in league over the last 4 or so years, has had some transition but is still running behind a good line. If you asked every GM in the league the question "if you were rebuilding your team and could choose any RB in the league which one would it be" I'd imagine that nearly every single GM would say LT in a split second.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I think the SD OL is underrated and the KC OL is currently overrated. I think if you put LJ in SD he'd have better stats than he does now, and if you put LT in KC, he'd have worse stats than he does now.
That doesn't mean LJ is better than LT, though, and I don't think he is.
FWIW, if you look at each player's best 9 game stretch:
LJ: 261/1351/5.18/16; 27/276/1; 1627/17
LT: 196/1091/5.57/23; 33/369/3; 1460/26
That doesn't mean LJ is better than LT, though, and I don't think he is.
FWIW, if you look at each player's best 9 game stretch:
LJ: 261/1351/5.18/16; 27/276/1; 1627/17
LT: 196/1091/5.57/23; 33/369/3; 1460/26
Gr00vus
Footballguy
At this point I agree with this. The Chargers' offensive line has had a great year so far. It struck home with me when Pinnock was gaining 4 and 5 yards a carry in the 3rd quarter running right up the gut on the Broncos this week. That was all about the Chargers blockers opening up holes, and not so much about Pinnock.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Michael Turner's averaged 5.9 YPC for his career, so it's not like the SD OL just immediately became good.I don't know why the SD OL is annually underrated; my only guess is that a few years ago it was terrible.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That is correct - as recently as 2003.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Well Hudson Houck joined the Chargers in 2002, and LT averaged 5.3 YPC in 2003. I think 2002 was the last year the Chargers OL was really bad. In 2003 San Diego led the NFL in YPC.
jonessed
Footballguy
The core of their line didn't come to the team until 2004, which coincided with the acquisition of Turner.
Don't forget passing stats . . .
Archie Bunker
Footballguy
To use the words of Bill Parcells, "You've been sucked."I am convinced CBSsportsline inetentionally writes articles to get people up in arms. It increases viewership everytime someone posts a link to their article on message boards. They do the same thing with college basketball as well.
B. Nugget
Footballguy
I'm a Chiefs homer, so I'll try to be diplomatic here...LT is clearly having an all-time great, record breaking season and LJ is doing what LT has done for the past 4-5 years. Look at what LT has done the past few years, which is put up a great season and be unfortunate enough to have somebody put up a record-breaking season to top him. Just last year people were touting Alexander as one of the all-time greats, now people are cussing him. Answer this question honestly: Where would LT be this year if Rivers got hurt in the first game and didn't play again until Thanksgiving? What if Gates got hurt and missed a game or two and Lorenzo Neal went to Miami to run in front of Brown? Would the journeyman backup QB, let's say Billy Volek, be able to keep a defense honest enough that LT get his yards and keep the team in the playoff hunt? Would the defenses key on him or sell out to stop the run? Would a converted TE be able to block like a multiple time Pro-Bowler? The truth is that LJ had back to back games against Arizona and Pittsburgh, where he wasn't able to do much because the defenses were selling out to stop him and daring Huard to beat them with his arm. He didn't and LJ had bad stat lines. Once Huard started producing, especially to Gonzo (IMO the key to the entire offense) LJ had running lanes open up and started looking like the LJ everyone expected. Sure LT is having an unbelievable season, but people are acting like he is twice as good as LJ because of the TD totals and that is crazy. I'd say that on a scale of 10, LT is probably a 9.5 and LJ is around 8.5 right now.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
They were still atrocious in 2003. I think they used something like 11 different players along the line over the course of the season, and had the same offensive line in only two games the entire season. Much of it was attributable to injuries, but most of it was because the guys on the line weren't good, actually they were down right awful. Several of them were out of the NFL within 2 years, none of them are currently starting for anybody in the NFL. Brees got killed behind that line and his numbers really suffered. The YPC that season was all LaDainian - to me that year goes down as probably his best ever performance even though the numbers won't show it.
I think LT is a better football player than LJ, and I agree that every GM would choose to build a team around LT over LJ, but I totally disagree with the Chargers line being ave/below ave outside of his first 2 seasons, and he was still great but not nearly as good as he is right now.So I still stand by my argument that you can't say LT has nothing around him or has had nothing around him, although I agree he is a better football player than Johnson and an equal runner with him.
B. Nugget
Footballguy
Agree 100%, plus is a lot less moody
I'm a Chiefs homer, so I'll try to be diplomatic here...LT is clearly having an all-time great, record breaking season and LJ is doing what LT has done for the past 4-5 years. Look at what LT has done the past few years, which is put up a great season and be unfortunate enough to have somebody put up a record-breaking season to top him. Just last year people were touting Alexander as one of the all-time greats, now people are cussing him. Answer this question honestly: Where would LT be this year if Rivers got hurt in the first game and didn't play again until Thanksgiving? What if Gates got hurt and missed a game or two and Lorenzo Neal went to Miami to run in front of Brown? Would the journeyman backup QB, let's say Billy Volek, be able to keep a defense honest enough that LT get his yards and keep the team in the playoff hunt? Would the defenses key on him or sell out to stop the run? Would a converted TE be able to block like a multiple time Pro-Bowler? The truth is that LJ had back to back games against Arizona and Pittsburgh, where he wasn't able to do much because the defenses were selling out to stop him and daring Huard to beat them with his arm. He didn't and LJ had bad stat lines. Once Huard started producing, especially to Gonzo (IMO the key to the entire offense) LJ had running lanes open up and started looking like the LJ everyone expected. Sure LT is having an unbelievable season, but people are acting like he is twice as good as LJ because of the TD totals and that is crazy. I'd say that on a scale of 10, LT is probably a 9.5 and LJ is around 8.5 right now.Michael Turner's averaged 5.9 YPC for his career, so it's not like the SD OL just immediately became good.I don't know why the SD OL is annually underrated; my only guess is that a few years ago it was terrible.
I would also add that TD numbers have a lot to do with the Team as a whole. Its like the old saying talent plus opportunity. I would bet that LT has had many more opportunities than LJ, not to take anything away from LT, I still think he is better, but not by too much.Edit to add- I take that back LJ has had more opportunities than LT.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
You caught your first error about the opportunities, but there's more to it than that. Check out LaDainian's 2003 season where he was basically surrounded by an offense that was worse than this year's Cleveland Browns. Also note the LaDainian PASSING touchdowns. Also note LaDainian getting split wide on pass plays and actually catching the ball when it's thrown to him downfield. There's more to it than just a better ypc or more touchdowns.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Having a bad day?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I figured. No big deal here, just something to talk about related to football. I figure an LT/LJ face off thread is actually a better topic than some of the other ones that tend to grace this message board from time to time.
Do you always post in threads you dont care about?
thatguy
Footballguy
Always.
thatguy
Footballguy
It's probably a worthwhile discussion, but not when the majority think the mere thought that LJ might be better is idiotic. Last season at this time, the Pool might have been closer 50/50 on the issue. Amazing what a year will do.ETA: This thread seemed more geared toward disparaging anyone who thought the LJ/LT comparison warranted a discussion at all than it did actually discussing it.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Maybe, but it's still open for discussion since the topic's here, which to me is good enough - any thread is going to have some intractable/out there participants, it doesn't devalue the entire discussion. I mean there are even good points in the epic "LHUCKs discounts Vince Young again" thread, even though most of it is troll vs. troll and it probably was instigated as a fishing trip.
