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Mad Men on AMC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Red Apples
- Start date
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Long time sitcom writer who worked on Mash, Cheers, and the SimpsonsI think his point is valid with the caveat that these stories aren't over yet.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
He lost me when he used "Girls" as an example.
The characters on that show were never likable.
The characters on that show were never likable.
Major
Footballguy
Mad Men recap of Episode 4 if it happened on facebook.....I didn't make it all the way through but some of these gave me a chuckle
http://www.happyplace.com/23413/mad-men-facebook-recap-season-6-episode-4
http://www.happyplace.com/23413/mad-men-facebook-recap-season-6-episode-4
gump
Footballguy
Trying to figure that out....why would the ketchup guy leak the meeting, knowing the beans guy would fire SCDP?
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I knew he looked familiar! That was driving me nuts.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Do we know Ketchup leaked it?
If he did the only I reason I can think of is to let Baked Beans know his place.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
I think a lot of good shows that start strong have trouble keeping up that level of quality for multiple seasons, but this is still one of the best on TV IMO. My one complaint is that characters disappear for one episode and have a major role the next. I don't recall this being the case in past seasons. Also just have Betty and the kids move to France and write them off the show at this point. It seems pointless to give them screen time since there is no depiction of Don & Betty discussing parenting stuff or Don even seeing his kids at all. Instead they just show up for an episode for no reason, then they're gone again.
Still lots of great moments on the show, but overall less cohesive and juggling too many storylines with not enough time to delve into them all.
Still lots of great moments on the show, but overall less cohesive and juggling too many storylines with not enough time to delve into them all.
Premier
Footballguy
The point about Betty I can agree with. Unless she serves some purpose to how the show wraps up, or something with her daughter, I don't really get why she's still around. I thought for a while they would go suicide with her, but that's not going to happen after Lane.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
That would be epic.I want more Peggy, Pete, Jane, and Harry. Maybe a little more Roger. Betty is wasted screen time, as is the secretary drama.Or, if you're going to keep Betty, have her bang the milkman, or clash with Don over visitation...something interesting.
zamboni
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
I disagree about Betty. Betty's purpose is important within the show, and I think people strongly misinterpret the point behind her continuing malaise. Unlike with Don, she now has in Henry a supportive husband. Without being a saintly caricature, Henry is about as good a husband as she could suspect. And if Betty were capable of being satisfied with being a wife and mother, she obviously should be. But she isn't. Because she wasn't unsatisfied simply because Don was a lying, cheating *******. She was unsatisfied because chose a life that could not fulfill her. And as she gets older, she's consistently confronted with women with more guts. Women who took more chances, and built their own lives on something like their own terms, despite the obstacles that presented.
I don't know if Betty can be redeemed by the end of the show, but she and Don are operating under a similar delusion. They both think that they if they change the details of their lives, they will somehow be happier. Don thinks that he can be a better man with Megan (until she chooses her to pursue he own career). Betty thinks she can trade into a new house with a new, successful husband. But neither will be happy until they learn to address the root of their unhappiness.
I'm pretty sure that will happen with Don. The foreshadowing is pretty much unmistakable. As Don says in the premiere this season "something terrible has to happen" to get to heaven. I'd like to see something similar for Betty. She needs to find something of her own.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
What Levine appears to be expressing is a frustration that Don hasn't sufficiently grown and changed yet. And buried within that frustration, I think, is a fear that Weiner will have Don NEVER change (which is also a fear that I think some people have about Girls). And I do understand that. Tony Soprano ultimately couldn't change. McNulty from the Wire couldn't really change (and the systemic defects in the city of Baltimore couldn't be changed). Some of our best shows in the last decade had a fundamentally cynical take on human nature.
And I also hope that Mad Men does not follow that path. Because even if it's realistic and true (and I'm not sure it really is), it's not something that I want to see again and again on television. It becomes depressing. But again, I really don't think Mad Men is going to end that way. It's just not the way I read this show.
And I also hope that Mad Men does not follow that path. Because even if it's realistic and true (and I'm not sure it really is), it's not something that I want to see again and again on television. It becomes depressing. But again, I really don't think Mad Men is going to end that way. It's just not the way I read this show.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I agree except somehow keep Sally in the states. The actress playing her is very good and I think there is still a lot of story lines for her
McGarnicle
Footballguy
That's all great, but my issue is more with the lack of cohesiveness. You have Don & Megan and all the SCDP people, then Betty pops up for an episode and disappears and has no connection to anyone else on the show anymore. The way Betty and the kids have been pushed aside feels cheap and inauthentic. Don having 3 kids should be significant, if for no other purpose than a sense of realism and continuity. It would also be an opportunity to show him actually caring about someone other than himself, as now he's starting to come off as a complete ####bird. Or, if the intent is to say that he's now ignoring his children, show that.
I'm sure next week there will be a scene with Don, Megan and the kids spending a day at the zoo, then Betty yells at Don for letting them eat too much junk food, and all this won't be an issue anymore. :jerkingoffgesture:
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Where were both Betty and Don in their lives when they met and fell in love? Maybe the show will be about some type of redemption of them both? Betty accepting **** Whitman, and Don remembering why he married her in the first place (alive, active, ambitious and beautiful). Maybe they can become who they are (were) again together? There is time for both of their marriages to blow up this season and for them to reconnect next season. That doesn't mean re-marry or move in together necessarily. Otherwise, why keep her around at all?
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Are you familiar with the term, "upside your head"? As in, "Don't make me go upside your head"?
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Betty was a model. She had graduated from Bryn Mawr and was living with other young models when she met Don on a commercial shoot. Don had forced his way into SDCP by essentially not taking no as an answer from Roger. I don't think Don and Betty will end up back together. The best relationship in Don's life, i.e., the one person who knew him and liked him for who he was, was with Anna Draper.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Really enjoying this season so far.
Wiener is just cashing checks? Oh bull####.
Wiener is just cashing checks? Oh bull####.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
This Levine guy is wrong.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I believe we're getting a big dose of Roger tonight. 
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Michael's dad is Jewish, right?
The Ref
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Hyman Roth thinks he acts too Jewish.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I was busy doing other stuff during the first half hour... what was the significance of Bobby tearing off the wallpaper?
Premier
Footballguy
Just acting out I think.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Is it just me or was that insurance guy a little "off"?
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
My wife is worse than I am sometimes. She's just watching it right now and she commented on the scene where Megan and Don run into Dr. Rosen and his wife in the lobby. Megan kisses Sylvia twice on the cheek.My wife says "I wonder if Megan taste's Don's [richard] on Sylvia's cheek".
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Roger: "I had forgotten that."
Whitetail Hunter
Footballguy
Ethan was awesome!!
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
"Hey-ya hey-ya...hey-ya hey-ya."Roger: "I had forgotten that."
Tecumseh
The Ref
Footballguy
I'm not really sure why the whole old family is a part of the story at this point. But this has been discussed.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
First half was not feeling right, but all of a sudden righteous Pete came out of nowhere and the awkward hug Joan gave Dawn was 
badmojo1006
Footballguy
It was a very good episode with lots of good scenes. But the best scene IMO was Abe and Peggy talking about the apartment and Abe mentioning that he thought their kids would grow up in a place with more diversity.Peggy's smile is what I will remember from this episode. It was pure joy.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Matt Weiner often says that "Mad Men" is a character story and not a history lesson, but there are certain events of the 1960s that are so sociologically enormous that they can't help but overtake the usual narrative for the week — even as they demonstrate why Weiner has that reluctant attitude about history. "The Grown-Ups," the season 3 episode about the (first) Kennedy assassination, was my least favorite episode of that year, feeling too much like a rehash of every prior pop culture take on JFK's death.
And for a while during "The Flood," I feared it was going to turn into a remake of "The Grown-Ups," with characters gawking at their televisions (or listening to their radios), struggling to make sense of the news of Martin Luther King's violent death. But as we shifted from the tragic, terrifying night of April 4th into the more uncertain light of April 5th, things picked up a bit, and "The Flood" felt like an episode of "Mad Men," focusing on what's going on with these specific people as they go through this infamous moment in time.
But how I judge "The Flood" is ultimately going to depend on what follows it.
Cryptic insurance man Randall Walsh whom we learn is revealed to be an acid-dropping pal of Roger's, and the show last season treated LSD usage as an opportunity for complete clarity. When he tells Don and the others about the opportunity provided by this tragedy, it comes on the heels of a horrific ad campaign proposal, and Roger and Stan both treat him as a ridiculous person(*), but the line about change has great import in a season that's simultaneously seen so much and so little of it.
(*) Ginsberg's so strange that it's hard to tell if he's mocking Randall's talk of a visitation from MLK's ghost or if he genuinely wants to hear more about it. He could be doing both at once.
On the one hand, you have the American horror show of 1968, and the enormous shift in the culture over the latter half of that decade, as evidenced in the fashions, Peggy's ascendancy, the hiring of Dawn, and more. On the other, you have characters stuck in the same old patterns — or, in Don's case, retreating to a familiar pattern after a prolonged attempt to break out of it.
I've found Don's backsliding an interesting and in-character direction for him, but I've also encountered resistance to it from fans and other critics — not because they don't believe Don would go back to being Don, or don't want to dislike him, but because it feels like the show running in circles with its leading man. And if the show is going to simply have Don revert to old habits and make the same mistakes again and again, then perhaps we've seen all we really need to of his story. (So far this season, Peggy's tale has been the more compelling one.)
But "The Flood" suggests the potential for transformation by Don and others, even if that change doesn't come easily to them all — particularly in this time when the world feels mad enough that the last-minute twist of "Planet of the Apes" doesn't feel too far-fetched.
Bobby Draper begins the episode ripping at the seam in his bedroom wallpaper, unhappy that it doesn't fit together the way it's supposed to. And as his father and the other characters move through a world that seams to be tearing apart like the wallpaper, Bobby surprises Don with his empathetic line to the black theater usher about the power of going to the movies when you're sad. Don's taken Bobby to the movies to get away from the insanity outside (and to spite Betty by honoring the letter but not spirit of her punishment), but in that moment he's reminded of the feeling that he later describes to Megan — of realizing that the emotions he once pretended to have about his children are real, "And it feels like your heart is going to explode." And though he returns from the movies and resumes drinking and smoking while letting Megan deal with the children, he's able to go into Bobby's bedroom and find words of comfort for the boy. Given that he spends much of the night and the next day being concerned about Sylvia, I don't think we should expect a "Summer Man"-style transformation for Don, but even a slight shift in attitude might be welcome at this point.
Pete is touched by the event to reach out to an appreciative but still distant Trudy, and the next day explodes at Harry for being concerned only with how the assassination will hurt SCDP's bottom line. Pete's liberalism (he comes from a family of wealthy Democrats) and (relative) empathy for the plight of blacks are ingrained parts of the character, and ones that felt right boiling to the surface in that moment.
Harry isn't the only person less concerned with the tragedy than with how it directly affects him. Peggy's realtor tries to exploit the unrest in Harlem to get her a cheaper price for a condo at 84th & York, and winds up losing her the place in the process. (The original bid would've gotten Peggy the apartment.) But this turns out to be for the best, as Abe — distracted by another news story about the fragile state of the city — lets out that he didn't want the place, because he imagined that he and Peggy would raise their kids in a more multi-cultural part of town. Peggy has, like most of the characters, been affected by the larger story happening around her this week,(**) but when Abe says the words — not even realizing just what he's revealed — all she can understandably think about is how happy it makes her feel.
(**) I got a kick out of the parallel hugs involving black secretaries, where Phyllis welcomes Peggy's embrace, where Dawn has no earthly idea why Joan has wrapped her arms around her, and doesn't even bother to reciprocate.
For some, like the organizers of the advertising awards banquet (where SCDP wins for the Heinz bean campaign Raymond loved so much), life simply carries on. For others, King's death is an opportunity for reflection, like Ginsberg's father pushing him once again to find a girl and settle down; or for action, like Henry's decision to run for state senate. (Which in turn reminds Betty of how much she's changed physically, now that she's about to be on display for the first time in a while.)
The show, though, is ultimately about Don, and we close with him standing on his balcony, not long after King was murdered standing on his down in Memphis. What's he thinking? What's he going to do? A few scenes earlier, Megan complains that she has no idea what he's feeling. Don's more of an open book to us than he is to her, but even after he confesses his complicated feelings about his children (and his father), we don't know what's running through his mind as he looks at the skyline and listens to the sirens below.
What he does next won't retroactively make "The Flood" into a great episode, but it might make it a more pivotal one.
Some other thoughts:
* After being so important last season, Ginsberg's been fairly marginalized so far (in part because of Don's renewed focus on work, perhaps in part because Don doesn't want to let the kid continue outdoing him), but the surprise blind date with Beverly the student teacher offered us some more insight into our strange visitor from another planet, including the fact that he remains a virgin even in this era of free love.
* Before all the chaos with MLK, we open the episode with a classic Don Draper back of the head shot — only it's the back of Peggy's head as she surveys her potential new apartment in Don's part of Manhattan.
* The realtor boasts that "the 2nd Avenue subway" will be coming in soon, to make the place more desirable. 45 years later, that subway line still does not exist, though occasional construction still happens. But Abe has the right idea about buying in the West '80s.
* Alison Brie was listed in last week's guest credits but did not appear, which was either an error (in episode that also had the gaffe about Le Cirque) or a case of Brie filming a scene that was cut, and SAG rules requiring the show to list her, anyway. Either way, her name wasn't a tease tonight, as Trudy got to turn down Pete's offer to provide some company for her and Tammy. The fight with Harry was the more memorable Pete moment, but I really liked the understated sincerity Vincent Kartheiser was projecting in that phone call. Pete Campbell has humanity, even if we don't see it all that often.
* Meanwhile, lots of notable guest stars in this one, including Harry Hamlin as Cutler, Gleason and Chaough head of accounts Jim Cutler, William Mapother (Ethan from "Lost") as Randall Walsh and comedienne Lennon Parham (who starred in the short-lived "Best Friends Forever" on NBC last season) as Peggy's pushy realtor Ginny.
* And as good as things are with Peggy and Abe at the moment, clearly Ted's interest in Peggy goes beyond the professional. He sits in her boyfriend's chair, and they share a meaningful look before the awards begin.
* Always happy to see Joan bust out her glasses, even if they didn't do much good at helping her see Paul Newman.
* Though Roger hasn't had much to do since the premiere, John Slattery is just a delight to watch as he reacts to the lunacy around him. His reaction to Randall's attempt to quote Tecumseh was priceless.
* "You would go to Canada on your knees to pick up your girlfriend." Yeah, Betty's not in any way bitter about The Second Mrs. Draper. I also liked how Don's explanation to Bobby that "Henry's not that important" simultaneously worked as reassurance and a dig at him.
And for a while during "The Flood," I feared it was going to turn into a remake of "The Grown-Ups," with characters gawking at their televisions (or listening to their radios), struggling to make sense of the news of Martin Luther King's violent death. But as we shifted from the tragic, terrifying night of April 4th into the more uncertain light of April 5th, things picked up a bit, and "The Flood" felt like an episode of "Mad Men," focusing on what's going on with these specific people as they go through this infamous moment in time.
But how I judge "The Flood" is ultimately going to depend on what follows it.
Cryptic insurance man Randall Walsh whom we learn is revealed to be an acid-dropping pal of Roger's, and the show last season treated LSD usage as an opportunity for complete clarity. When he tells Don and the others about the opportunity provided by this tragedy, it comes on the heels of a horrific ad campaign proposal, and Roger and Stan both treat him as a ridiculous person(*), but the line about change has great import in a season that's simultaneously seen so much and so little of it.
(*) Ginsberg's so strange that it's hard to tell if he's mocking Randall's talk of a visitation from MLK's ghost or if he genuinely wants to hear more about it. He could be doing both at once.
On the one hand, you have the American horror show of 1968, and the enormous shift in the culture over the latter half of that decade, as evidenced in the fashions, Peggy's ascendancy, the hiring of Dawn, and more. On the other, you have characters stuck in the same old patterns — or, in Don's case, retreating to a familiar pattern after a prolonged attempt to break out of it.
I've found Don's backsliding an interesting and in-character direction for him, but I've also encountered resistance to it from fans and other critics — not because they don't believe Don would go back to being Don, or don't want to dislike him, but because it feels like the show running in circles with its leading man. And if the show is going to simply have Don revert to old habits and make the same mistakes again and again, then perhaps we've seen all we really need to of his story. (So far this season, Peggy's tale has been the more compelling one.)
But "The Flood" suggests the potential for transformation by Don and others, even if that change doesn't come easily to them all — particularly in this time when the world feels mad enough that the last-minute twist of "Planet of the Apes" doesn't feel too far-fetched.
Bobby Draper begins the episode ripping at the seam in his bedroom wallpaper, unhappy that it doesn't fit together the way it's supposed to. And as his father and the other characters move through a world that seams to be tearing apart like the wallpaper, Bobby surprises Don with his empathetic line to the black theater usher about the power of going to the movies when you're sad. Don's taken Bobby to the movies to get away from the insanity outside (and to spite Betty by honoring the letter but not spirit of her punishment), but in that moment he's reminded of the feeling that he later describes to Megan — of realizing that the emotions he once pretended to have about his children are real, "And it feels like your heart is going to explode." And though he returns from the movies and resumes drinking and smoking while letting Megan deal with the children, he's able to go into Bobby's bedroom and find words of comfort for the boy. Given that he spends much of the night and the next day being concerned about Sylvia, I don't think we should expect a "Summer Man"-style transformation for Don, but even a slight shift in attitude might be welcome at this point.
Pete is touched by the event to reach out to an appreciative but still distant Trudy, and the next day explodes at Harry for being concerned only with how the assassination will hurt SCDP's bottom line. Pete's liberalism (he comes from a family of wealthy Democrats) and (relative) empathy for the plight of blacks are ingrained parts of the character, and ones that felt right boiling to the surface in that moment.
Harry isn't the only person less concerned with the tragedy than with how it directly affects him. Peggy's realtor tries to exploit the unrest in Harlem to get her a cheaper price for a condo at 84th & York, and winds up losing her the place in the process. (The original bid would've gotten Peggy the apartment.) But this turns out to be for the best, as Abe — distracted by another news story about the fragile state of the city — lets out that he didn't want the place, because he imagined that he and Peggy would raise their kids in a more multi-cultural part of town. Peggy has, like most of the characters, been affected by the larger story happening around her this week,(**) but when Abe says the words — not even realizing just what he's revealed — all she can understandably think about is how happy it makes her feel.
(**) I got a kick out of the parallel hugs involving black secretaries, where Phyllis welcomes Peggy's embrace, where Dawn has no earthly idea why Joan has wrapped her arms around her, and doesn't even bother to reciprocate.
For some, like the organizers of the advertising awards banquet (where SCDP wins for the Heinz bean campaign Raymond loved so much), life simply carries on. For others, King's death is an opportunity for reflection, like Ginsberg's father pushing him once again to find a girl and settle down; or for action, like Henry's decision to run for state senate. (Which in turn reminds Betty of how much she's changed physically, now that she's about to be on display for the first time in a while.)
The show, though, is ultimately about Don, and we close with him standing on his balcony, not long after King was murdered standing on his down in Memphis. What's he thinking? What's he going to do? A few scenes earlier, Megan complains that she has no idea what he's feeling. Don's more of an open book to us than he is to her, but even after he confesses his complicated feelings about his children (and his father), we don't know what's running through his mind as he looks at the skyline and listens to the sirens below.
What he does next won't retroactively make "The Flood" into a great episode, but it might make it a more pivotal one.
Some other thoughts:
* After being so important last season, Ginsberg's been fairly marginalized so far (in part because of Don's renewed focus on work, perhaps in part because Don doesn't want to let the kid continue outdoing him), but the surprise blind date with Beverly the student teacher offered us some more insight into our strange visitor from another planet, including the fact that he remains a virgin even in this era of free love.
* Before all the chaos with MLK, we open the episode with a classic Don Draper back of the head shot — only it's the back of Peggy's head as she surveys her potential new apartment in Don's part of Manhattan.
* The realtor boasts that "the 2nd Avenue subway" will be coming in soon, to make the place more desirable. 45 years later, that subway line still does not exist, though occasional construction still happens. But Abe has the right idea about buying in the West '80s.
* Alison Brie was listed in last week's guest credits but did not appear, which was either an error (in episode that also had the gaffe about Le Cirque) or a case of Brie filming a scene that was cut, and SAG rules requiring the show to list her, anyway. Either way, her name wasn't a tease tonight, as Trudy got to turn down Pete's offer to provide some company for her and Tammy. The fight with Harry was the more memorable Pete moment, but I really liked the understated sincerity Vincent Kartheiser was projecting in that phone call. Pete Campbell has humanity, even if we don't see it all that often.
* Meanwhile, lots of notable guest stars in this one, including Harry Hamlin as Cutler, Gleason and Chaough head of accounts Jim Cutler, William Mapother (Ethan from "Lost") as Randall Walsh and comedienne Lennon Parham (who starred in the short-lived "Best Friends Forever" on NBC last season) as Peggy's pushy realtor Ginny.
* And as good as things are with Peggy and Abe at the moment, clearly Ted's interest in Peggy goes beyond the professional. He sits in her boyfriend's chair, and they share a meaningful look before the awards begin.
* Always happy to see Joan bust out her glasses, even if they didn't do much good at helping her see Paul Newman.
* Though Roger hasn't had much to do since the premiere, John Slattery is just a delight to watch as he reacts to the lunacy around him. His reaction to Randall's attempt to quote Tecumseh was priceless.
* "You would go to Canada on your knees to pick up your girlfriend." Yeah, Betty's not in any way bitter about The Second Mrs. Draper. I also liked how Don's explanation to Bobby that "Henry's not that important" simultaneously worked as reassurance and a dig at him.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Turns out it was uneven, watching it for a second time. And a metaphor. Thanks Sepinwall!
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
The "On the next Mad Men..." literally had me laughing out loud. Roger in bed just making faces.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
Pete may be a self-absorbed asswipe, but he'll be damned if anyone is going to denigrate MLK. Yeah, okay. 
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Not all narcissistic people are sociopaths or detached from reality and incapable of empathy. Didn't find that at all hard to believe.Loved Bert's face after Pete and Harry give him a courtesy acknowledgment and then just completely blow him off. Damn kids.Pete may be a self-absorbed asswipe, but he'll be damned if anyone is going to denigrate MLK. Yeah, okay.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
It wasn't one of their better episodes.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
Agreed.
Funny that I was complaining last week that they aren't showing Don with the kids at all.
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