Mario Williams to WOLB (1 Viewer)

[Jene Bramel]

On Twitter late last night.

@McClain_on_NFL At 6-7, 290, Mario Williams will become the largest OLB in NFL history. Wade Phillips plans to use him on the weak side.

This may not stick long term, depending on how well Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed and JJ Watt develop, but it'll be a fascinating experiment to watch.

 

[Shane Falco]

 

[matttyl]

Thought that was Barwin's job to lose. Williams I feel would be much better utilized inside.

 

[coolnerd]

Thought that was Barwin's job to lose. Williams I feel would be much better utilized inside.

Williams is going to be playing the position of pass rusher. He may start front a two point or three point. The texans probably will be in its 4 man pass rush front as much as the pure 3-4. Essentially Mario willl atart in a two stance and sometimes with his hand on the ground, but his responsibilities will look much like they do currently. I know what he is classified as matters for fantasy purposes, but he is not going to be chasing to many RBs on swing passes.

 

[Cipherchris]

Is Wade trying to weaken the D??

That is a bad hire in my opinion if he makes SuperMario into a LB

 

[Jene Bramel]

Is Wade trying to weaken the D?? That is a bad hire in my opinion if he makes SuperMario into a LB

The most interesting thing to me here is the timing of the announcement. 6 weeks ago, presumably after watching film, Phillips said that Williams wouldn't play from a two point stance. It could mean that Phillips changed his mind, that Williams' recovery from hernia surgery was surprising in the handful of days the coaches could have contact with him, that Barwin's recovery isn't going as well as expected or that they see Brooks Reed as a longer term project than a player that they'd hoped to get in the second round.Keep in mind here, though, that Williams' responsibilities will only be slightly different. Phillips 3-4 is much like a 4-3, especially on the weak side. Williams probably would have played the run differently at DE, but he would still likely have been tasked to get upfield toward the pocket first. It's the IDP value hit from the expected positional classification change that's most at risk and the thrust of the fantasy fussiness.Assuming Williams starts at ROLB opening weekend, the first two weeks of film will tell the tale.1/ How often will the Texans align Williams in a non-pass rushing two-point stance? As coolnerd rightly points out, he may align in a two point stance but it's likely to be as a standup 9-technique on the line. That's different from how he aligned last year and would've aligned this year as a DE, but his task should still be pass rushing. If he's off the line or dropping into coverage 20-30% of the time in the base defense (5-10 snaps per game), I'll be very surprised. Phillips generally uses a four man front in subpackages, where Williams will most likely play with his hand down then. 2/ Can Williams effectively rush the passer from a two point stance?In the end, this is the limiting factor. If Williams can get the same explosion on the snap and adjust to the differences in how and when he engages blockers from a two point stance, he'll stick at WOLB -- regardless of how Barwin/Reed/Watt perform.I think Tamba Hali is the right comp here. Hali isn't a 6-7, 290 pounder, but his game (decent explosion, better than average speed and leverage) is a better comp than guys like James Harrison or Demarcus Ware or Cameron Wake. Hali adjusted more quickly than some expected. I think Williams could as well, especially with the sports hernias behind him.No question that it's a bummer for those holding Williams at DL, but big play folks shouldn't totally write him off. Call him a LB3/4 with upside in balanced systems and a LB2/3 with lots of upside in big play systems.

 

[Go deep]

Are we sure MFL will change his position?

 

[Jene Bramel]

Are we sure MFL will change his position?

Over the past two seasons, Rotoworld (whose depth charts MFL follows) has been very good about updating positions based on coach's comments and what happens on the field. If Williams primarily lines up at OLB during the first preseason game, I think he's a lock to be listed as a LB on MFL.

 

[FUBAR]

Are we sure MFL will change his position?

Over the past two seasons, Rotoworld (whose depth charts MFL follows) has been very good about updating positions based on coach's comments and what happens on the field. If Williams primarily lines up at OLB during the first preseason game, I think he's a lock to be listed as a LB on MFL.

:( :sendsofferstoeveryteam:

 

[snellman]

Great, I went through this with Kampman in Green Bay and now I get to go through it with Williams, and somehow Suggs manages to stay as DE year in and year out.

 

[fruity pebbles]

This tells me that if Mario can get moved to Lber with a coaching change any DE can. Hard to pay the prices stud DEs go for in IDP leagues knowing that you could lose that investment over the offseason.

 

[Cipherchris]

Keep us posted Jene. I need to know how the Houston D shake out

 

[coolnerd]

Keep us posted Jene. I need to know how the Houston D shake out

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7552612.htmlhere is the latest on the move and there is some info regarding how he is going to be used...i.e. seemingly little to no pass coverage responsibilites

 

[Heatman]

Keep us posted Jene. I need to know how the Houston D shake out

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7552612.htmlhere is the latest on the move and there is some info regarding how he is going to be used...i.e. seemingly little to no pass coverage responsibilites

Looks like Okoye will move to DE. I think this could possible rejuvenate his career. He plays hard and fast, maybe the move to the outside will free him up a bit.

 

[Larry Thomas]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in “5-2” front

The Texans’ decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he’ll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he’ll just be on his feet more.

“They say ‘3-4’, ‘4-3’, all that,” Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. “We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there.”

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker...

 

[sihaokills]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in “5-2” front

The Texans’ decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he’ll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he’ll just be on his feet more.

“They say ‘3-4’, ‘4-3’, all that,” Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. “We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there.”

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker...

Wow that would be awesome... Reed and Watt at the edges with Williams rushing a lot. Cushing and Ryans racking tackle after tackle. Pollard great against the run too. Chris Johnson, MJD, and Arian Foster WATCH OUT!!!

 

[kurtrudder]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in “5-2” front

The Texans’ decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he’ll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he’ll just be on his feet more.

“They say ‘3-4’, ‘4-3’, all that,” Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. “We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there.”

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker...

Did anyone else have problems getting to that link?Sounds like there is a small ray of hope that Williams might stay a DL for fantasy purposes.

 

[Larry Thomas]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in 5-2 front

Sorry bout that, this link works.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

This has "fail" written all over it.

In the end, he will play DE on the field, regardless of whatever other designations are used.

 

[Young 8]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in “5-2” front

The Texans’ decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he’ll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he’ll just be on his feet more.

“They say ‘3-4’, ‘4-3’, all that,” Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. “We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there.”

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker...

Wow that would be awesome... Reed and Watt at the edges with Williams rushing a lot. Cushing and Ryans racking tackle after tackle. Pollard great against the run too. Chris Johnson, MJD, and Arian Foster WATCH OUT!!!

Pollard is not in Texas anymore

 

[FUBAR]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in "5-2" front

The Texans' decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he'll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he'll just be on his feet more.

"They say '3-4', '4-3', all that," Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. "We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there."

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker...

Wow that would be awesome... Reed and Watt at the edges with Williams rushing a lot. Cushing and Ryans racking tackle after tackle. Pollard great against the run too. Chris Johnson, MJD, and Arian Foster WATCH OUT!!!

 

[Shane Falco]

Phillips clarifies plans for Williams in "5-2" front

The Texans' decision to move Mario Williams to outside linebacker has sparked plenty of hoopla and debate. Williams has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the NFL as a 4-3 defensive end, and he'll be an unconventionally large linebacker at 6-6, 290 pounds.

On Monday, defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said that Williams essentially will still be an end in his defense – he'll just be on his feet more.

"They say '3-4', '4-3', all that," Phillips said at the Texans' annual Charity Golf Classic. "We really play a 5-2. We play five defensive linemen that can rush the passer and two inside 'backers who can tackle people. And we think Mario certainly fits in there."

In that 5-2 front, Williams will often be standing up on the right edge of the defensive line as the Will (weakside outside) linebacker...

Wow that would be awesome... Reed and Watt at the edges with Williams rushing a lot. Cushing and Ryans racking tackle after tackle. Pollard great against the run too. Chris Johnson, MJD, and Arian Foster WATCH OUT!!!

don't stop him, he's on a roll

 

[Wilna]

Jene, based on what has been said by Phillips, what do you think is a realistic expectation for Mario in terms of tackles/sacks. Should we be thinking along the same lines as Ware or is that too much? In my league he is still a DE and they get significantly more points for sacks and tackles than LBs so he's potentially very valuable now.

Thanks.

 

[massraider]

In my league he is still a DE

Does your league decide if he is going to move, or do they use defaults provided by the league host website?Because most league websites don't update position changes till August. You could see, and probably will see, his position change to OLB on MFL, ESPN, CBS etc. For the most part, he's only 'still' a DE because they haven't changed it yet.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Jene, based on what has been said by Phillips, what do you think is a realistic expectation for Mario in terms of tackles/sacks. Should we be thinking along the same lines as Ware or is that too much? In my league he is still a DE and they get significantly more points for sacks and tackles than LBs so he's potentially very valuable now.Thanks.

I think Williams could get 12-14 sacks if he makes the transition to standup rusher quickly. I think he'll need to hit those numbers to get to 50 solos, though. I'd probably project him in the 40-45 solo/8-12 sack range.

 

[Wilna]

Jene, based on what has been said by Phillips, what do you think is a realistic expectation for Mario in terms of tackles/sacks. Should we be thinking along the same lines as Ware or is that too much? In my league he is still a DE and they get significantly more points for sacks and tackles than LBs so he's potentially very valuable now.Thanks.

I think Williams could get 12-14 sacks if he makes the transition to standup rusher quickly. I think he'll need to hit those numbers to get to 50 solos, though. I'd probably project him in the 40-45 solo/8-12 sack range.

ok, thanks both of you. I've had it confirmed that we'll go with whatever MFL decide so sounds like he'll be a OLB by start of season which obviously decreases his value. Thanks for the stat projections Jene.

 

[Miro Z]

If Mario Williams is playing as a defensive lineman in a 5-2 then shouldn't be still be listed as a DL?

 

[Jene Bramel]

If Mario Williams is playing as a defensive lineman in a 5-2 then shouldn't be still be listed as a DL?

It's a semantic argument. Convention would argue that a player in a two point stance should be labeled a linebacker. The roles and responsibilities Phillips will likely have, i.e. engaging the offensive line and playing the run while rushing the passer on nearly every snap, are definitely more like a lineman. Wade says his defense functions more like a 5-2, but it's not the conventional definition of a 52. The 52 defense has five down linemen. And Wade's playbooks will call Williams "Will" and the other outside player "Sam." The players over the offensive tackles are called ends.I think Williams should be designated as a LB.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Williams is now listed at LB on mfl.

 

[adrenaline]

Williams is now listed at LB on mfl.

I'm a victim.

 

[Shane Falco]

I am and I'm not surprised they changed him already.

Part of me is confident that this move will prove to be an utter failure (either in the pre-season or early on in the season) and Mario ends up back at DE. Unfortunately he won't get moved back to DE during the season for FF purposes. Causing all of us to burn a useless roster spot all season (in dyno at least)

Or maybe this is all wishful thinking from a Mario owner and Wade hater....

 

[StinkyCheeseman]

Didn't catch Houston's game this weekend ... Mario week 1 - couple of sacks ... this week very quiet .... Was this due to a lack of opportunity or is the jury still out on the transition from DE to LB ?

 

[bigal0303]

Houston played against the pass in the dime and there weren't many tackle attempts. At times it was only Cushing on the fuel at lb I would suggest unless he gets a sack a low number this week. There gonna have a lot of db's on the field. Williams is doing good playing against small passing teams though the teams running double te's look for big weeks after this week.

 

[jamil]

This was one of those weeks where it didn't show in the box score but had a good game. Got good pressure and forced a few holding penalties

 

[Shane Falco]

Now to IR

link

Probably not as big as deal since he moved to LB but I'm holding in a Dynasty hoping he moves back to DE next year (with another team)

 

[bigal0303]

Who takes his spot? With espn he is listed as a hybrid so I could put him as a de

 

[saintfool]

Who takes his spot? With espn he is listed as a hybrid so I could put him as a de

i thinking about this in the shark pool. i think it's between reed and barwin. phillips seems to like barwin at OLB but he's still adjusting to the role. he hasn't been rosterable to this point either and this could be his shot. i held onto him in dynasty, thinking he might benefit from attention teams have to pay mario, but he's a disappointment. reed looked good in the preseason but he is a rookie. he also wasn't asked to do much and maybe benefited from preseason matchups. i don't know what wade's MO is in these circumstance but i'd bet on reed taking up the cause.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Who takes his spot? With espn he is listed as a hybrid so I could put him as a de

i thinking about this in the shark pool. i think it's between reed and barwin. phillips seems to like barwin at OLB but he's still adjusting to the role. he hasn't been rosterable to this point either and this could be his shot. i held onto him in dynasty, thinking he might benefit from attention teams have to pay mario, but he's a disappointment. reed looked good in the preseason but he is a rookie. he also wasn't asked to do much and maybe benefited from preseason matchups. i don't know what wade's MO is in these circumstance but i'd bet on reed taking up the cause.

Barwin has been the every-down LOLB. It'll be Reed that takes Mario's spot. His line looked a little better than it should, as he wasn't blocked on a couple of plays he made against Oakland. It's also worth watching Bryan Braman, who looked promising in the preseason, but has barely played through five weeks.I think we could see two changes in philosophy. One already happened to a small extent during the game last week, when Brian Cushing was used as an A gap blitzer more often than in the past. And I think it'll be interesting to see how the Texans approach their passing subpackages. Do they continue to use their dime package and work on ways to scheme an edge rush with Smith/Watt/Barwin/Reed or do they use Cushing a little more there and elect to go back to a 4-2-5 (where it's easier to rush five and bring Cushing). If they do the latter, it's good news for those hoping that DeMeco Ryans gets another chance to play every down.

 

[saintfool]

Who takes his spot? With espn he is listed as a hybrid so I could put him as a de

i thinking about this in the shark pool. i think it's between reed and barwin. phillips seems to like barwin at OLB but he's still adjusting to the role. he hasn't been rosterable to this point either and this could be his shot. i held onto him in dynasty, thinking he might benefit from attention teams have to pay mario, but he's a disappointment. reed looked good in the preseason but he is a rookie. he also wasn't asked to do much and maybe benefited from preseason matchups. i don't know what wade's MO is in these circumstance but i'd bet on reed taking up the cause.

Barwin has been the every-down LOLB. It'll be Reed that takes Mario's spot. His line looked a little better than it should, as he wasn't blocked on a couple of plays he made against Oakland. It's also worth watching Bryan Braman, who looked promising in the preseason, but has barely played through five weeks.I think we could see two changes in philosophy. One already happened to a small extent during the game last week, when Brian Cushing was used as an A gap blitzer more often than in the past. And I think it'll be interesting to see how the Texans approach their passing subpackages. Do they continue to use their dime package and work on ways to scheme an edge rush with Smith/Watt/Barwin/Reed or do they use Cushing a little more there and elect to go back to a 4-2-5 (where it's easier to rush five and bring Cushing). If they do the latter, it's good news for those hoping that DeMeco Ryans gets another chance to play every down.

seems like it would be easier to ask reed to just do the mario thing - rush the passer - than try to experiment. reed played DE in college so he'd be dealing with the same learning curve that barwin and mario did (playing in space, standing up, etc). reed had a monster game in the preseason against NO and the potential is there. they also invested a higher draft pick in him. the more i think about it, the more i am inclined to think barwin will stay on his side and be pretty useless for FF purposes.

 

[kellumsboys]

Tim Jamison - DE had a big game this week

was it due to Williams being out ?

should we expect more of this ?

 

[jsharlan]

Tim Jamison - DE had a big game this weekwas it due to Williams being out ?should we expect more of this ?

No you shouldn't. He's a rotational player who only played 23 snaps. He just had a good game.