Michael Flynn, Former NSA Advisor To Trump, Calls For Coup -- Jeet Heer of The Nation Says There Already Was One - Update: Newly-Problematic Milley Ad (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/05/31/trump-ally-michael-flynn-says-what-happened-in-coup-stricken-myanmar-should-happen-in-us-at-dallas-conference/

So Flynn calls for a coup. No surprise there. He is a disgrace. What is crazier, though, was I was reading an article by Jeet Heer of The Nation (left-wing magazine) who posited that a coup had already happened in the United States and it was because the military already was disobeying President Trump's orders to withdraw from certain areas of the world, and therefore, they were violating the citizens' orders about how the military should be run.

Interesting article for perusal. Heer seems to insinuate that there were seeds very ripe for a coup, and that it happened silently. I think, if his allegations are true, that he's right, and that we should be concerned about the both paths to a coup.

https://jeetheer.substack.com/p/two-paths-to-a-military-coup

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Trump says he expects to be reinstated by August. His ardent supporters are calling for a Myanmar type coup. The "other path"? Let's get real about the danger and who is causing it. At this point supporting Donald Trump is traitorous. He's a traitor, Flynn is a traitor. Stop obfuscating. It's not "interesting". 

 

[timschochet]

Trump says he expects to be reinstated by August. His ardent supporters are calling for a Myanmar type coup. The "other path"? Let's get real about the danger and who is causing it. At this point supporting Donald Trump is traitorous. He's a traitor, Flynn is a traitor. Stop obfuscating. It's not "interesting". 

I don’t think @rockaction is deliberately obfuscating. He’s genuinely concerned with supposed threads from the extreme left as well as the right. But the ones from the left don’t really exist. Rock is- dare I say it?- DELUSIONAL to think they do (he called me delusional in another thread so I can get away with it here.) 

Your point is correct: Trump and his most devout followers are the threat here. The other side is irrelevant. 

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

I don’t think @rockaction is deliberately obfuscating. He’s genuinely concerned with supposed threads from the extreme left as well as the right. But the ones from the left don’t really exist. Rock is- dare I say it?- DELUSIONAL to think they do (he called me delusional in another thread so I can get away with it here.) 

Your point is correct: Trump and his most devout followers are the threat here. The other side is irrelevant. 

Yup, I agree. I was referring to the article/author. 

 

[rockaction]

Reading comprehension between the two of you is way, way down. Heer is saying that a coup already happened and that there are threats on both fronts. Did you guys even read the freaking article? I'd venture that's a fat "no."

"But still, even if I thought Trump’s policies were dangerous and the generals who wanted to maintain troops everywhere were prudent, I still don’t want military leaders to be lying to civilian leadership or actively sabotaging the goals of a president. The reassertion of civilian control over the military has to be a priority for Joe Biden.

Trump’s weak and buffoonish authoritarianism incited two competing types of military coups: a coup by the military brass against Trump and a coup by Trumpists against the constitutional order. We’ll return to the second type of coup in our next post."

For a side that considers itself nuanced, you guys sure had trouble with this conclusion. Now that's not delusional.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

For a lot of different reasons Trump was uniquely easy for military leaders to disregard and/or manipulate.  I agree that it’s important to have civilian control over the military but I don’t see this purported coup as an ongoing concern as long as we elect Presidents in the future that aren’t Donald Trump.

 

[rockaction]

For a lot of different reasons Trump was uniquely easy for military leaders to disregard and/or manipulate.  I agree that it’s important to have civilian control over the military but I don’t see this purported coup as an ongoing concern as long as we elect Presidents in the future that aren’t Donald Trump.

I understand what you are saying and are sympathetic, but a few things, somewhat unrelated in policy:

1. Tell that to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
   
2. It only takes once for there to have been a coup
   
3. That's horrendous precedent. Who decides? Civilians, not generals.
   

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

I understand what you are saying and are sympathetic, but a few things, somewhat unrelated in policy:

1. Tell that to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
   
2. It only takes once for there to have been a coup
   
3. That's horrendous precedent. Who decides? Civilians, not generals.
   

I think I agree with all of this. Of course it’s a horrible precedent.  I’m just stating that I’m not particularly concerned about it going forward.

A lot of crazy stuff happened during the Trump administration that seem unlikely to happen again.  

 

[rockaction]

I think I agree with all of this. Of course it’s a horrible precedent.  I’m just stating that I’m not particularly concerned about it going forward.

A lot of crazy stuff happened during the Trump administration that seem unlikely to happen again.  

I think that's the only reason why this isn't a bigger deal. It was, maybe as they say, a sui generis administration.

That perhaps we'll have again.

 

[rockaction]

This is a bump. And also a bit of a plea.

Y'all should get down with what I'm throwing down. It's worthy of mention. In the other thread, we have an admission from Milley that he was set and did defy Presidential orders regarding the military. Heer had known this, and published it.

I'm serious. Trump was an utter stain on our nation. Milley and company, while sympathetic, also performed a silent coup. We need to be aware of it. The checks and balances went horribly awry and rested in the heads of men, not law.

We need law to be master.

 

[BladeRunner]

This is a bump. And also a bit of a plea.

Y'all should get down with what I'm throwing down. It's worthy of mention. In the other thread, we have an admission from Milley that he was set and did defy Presidential orders regarding the military. Heer had known this, and published it.

I'm serious. Trump was an utter stain on our nation. Milley and company, while sympathetic, also performed a silent coup. We need to be aware of it. The checks and balances went horribly awry and rested in the heads of men, not law.

We need law to be master.

I agree with you completely.  This cannot be allowed to stand.  Everyone who participated in this deserves a court-martial and a long time in prison.

But you and I BOTH know that because it was Trump, everyone on the left is going to support this.  That is, until they are in power.

The more I read stuff like this, the more I can see us heading towards a civil war.   The left is pushing this country to the brink.

 

[rockaction]

I agree with you completely.  This cannot be allowed to stand.  Everyone who participated in this deserves a court-martial and a long time in prison.

But you and I BOTH know that because it was Trump, everyone on the left is going to support this.  That is, until they are in power.

I think resignations are appropriate and enough. We do allow for conscience in military members in law, if I'm not mistaken. It is not an absolute. But they should, if there is any reason for commencing military activities in those days, be done.

Or we need an Amendment to the Constitution that eliminates the grace period for Inaugural stuff. The teams should already be in place. I'd vote for that now.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think resignations are appropriate and enough. 

Agreed.  Assuming this went down the way it was described, I understand why Milley did what he did and I don't even fault him for it (the voters are fault here), but he can't continue to serve in the military after something like this.

 

[BladeRunner]

I think resignations are appropriate and enough. We do allow for conscience in military members in law, if I'm not mistaken. It is not an absolute. But they, if there is any reason for commencing military activities in those days, be done.

Or we need an Amendment to the Constitution that eliminates the grace period for Inaugural stuff. The teams should already be in place. I'd vote for that now.

Court Martial might be a bit extreme.  However, the UCMJ is pretty clear on this - the direct refusal to obey a lawful order is punishable by confinement, dishonorable discharge and more.  None of these guys should get their benefits or pensions and suffer the fate of a bad conduct discharge - that's like getting a felony.

 

[rockaction]

I understand why Milley did what he did and I don't even fault him for it (the voters are fault here), but he can't continue to serve in the military after something like this.

He can't. Especially not after Afghanistan and other things. He needs to fall on the sword that the electorate should have to fall on for allowing Trump to happen through their elected representatives. It is the people at fault here, frankly, for pressuring their Senators and House representatives not to impeach Trump the first time and for allowing this runaway train of borderline fascism to happen.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I think resignations are appropriate and enough. We do allow for conscience in military members in law, if I'm not mistaken. It is not an absolute. But they, if there is any reason for commencing military activities in those days, be done.

Or we need an Amendment to the Constitution that eliminates the grace period for Inaugural stuff. The teams should already be in place. I'd vote for that now.

I was just going to mention this.  It can be dangerous having a disgruntled and disgraced egomaniac at the helm during this period.  

 

[rockaction]

Court Martial might be a bit extreme.  However, the UCMJ is pretty clear on this - the direct refusal to obey a lawful order is punishable by confinement, dishonorable discharge and more.  None of these guys should get their benefits or pensions and suffer the fate of a bad conduct discharge - that's like getting a felony.

No offense, but I'm waiting for the military lawyers to weigh in. I suppose it's different than you think due to nuclear protocols and conscience concerns that have found their way into case law. We're going to get competing sides on this, likely resulting in resignations and honorable discharges with pensions intact.

That's my take, and it's probably a good thing.

 

[BladeRunner]

No offense, but I'm waiting for the military lawyers to weigh in. I suppose it's different than you think due to nuclear protocols and conscience concerns that have found their way into case law. We're going to get competing sides on this, likely resulting in resignations and honorable discharges with pensions intact.

That's my take, and it's probably a good thing.

Well, it's not like Trump ordered them to shoot a bunch of women and children.  THAT would be an unlawful order.

Conscience has nothing to do with what actually happened.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Agreed.  Assuming this went down the way it was described, I understand why Milley did what he did and I don't even fault him for it (the voters are fault here), but he can't continue to serve in the military after something like this.

No he can`t continue, but Milley shoulda been fired already for the Afghan fiasco.

 

[dkp993]

As I said in the other thread…  the fact that this happened in the last few days of the POTUS term got me thinking about when is it appropriate to do something like this.  I think @rockactionis right and the transfer needs to happen quicker, but until that day I think an argument can be made that this situation had merit when time is factored in.  
 

* the Resignation should still happen though IMO