Mike Wallace to be Tendered, not tagged (3 Viewers)

[Godsbrother]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Wallace would have had 1400+ yards this year if Big Ben did not get hurt. Elite. Simple as that.

Ben got hurt in week 14 against the Browns. Wallace's last 100 yard game in 2011 was week 7.

 

[Copeman]

Those suggesting Wallace's numbers fell because of Ben's injury:

Ben sure was able to hit Brown quite a few times when he was injured.

 

[Touchdown There]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Wallace would have had 1400+ yards this year if Big Ben did not get hurt. Elite. Simple as that.

Ben got hurt in week 14 against the Browns. Wallace's last 100 yard game in 2011 was week 7.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/2/15/2799468/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-already-working-out-confirms-right

 

[Godsbrother]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Wallace would have had 1400+ yards this year if Big Ben did not get hurt. Elite. Simple as that.

Ben got hurt in week 14 against the Browns. Wallace's last 100 yard game in 2011 was week 7.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/2/15/2799468/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-already-working-out-confirms-right

Ben was fine up until he was injured against Cleveland in Week 14, when his play was clearly affected by his ankle. Anyone that watched the Steelers could see a dramatic difference in Wallace between the first and second half of the season. He was definitely having problems keeping his head in the game and had multiple drops of easy catches.I think he is a real nice receiver and would love to have him back but I think blaming his underwhelming performances in the second half of the season on Roethlisberger is a stretch.

 

[Touchdown There]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Wallace would have had 1400+ yards this year if Big Ben did not get hurt. Elite. Simple as that.

Ben got hurt in week 14 against the Browns. Wallace's last 100 yard game in 2011 was week 7.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/2/15/2799468/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-already-working-out-confirms-right

Ben was fine up until he was injured against Cleveland in Week 14, when his play was clearly affected by his ankle. Anyone that watched the Steelers could see a dramatic difference in Wallace between the first and second half of the season. He was definitely having problems keeping his head in the game and had multiple drops of easy catches.I think he is a real nice receiver and would love to have him back but I think blaming his underwhelming performances in the second half of the season on Roethlisberger is a stretch.

I'll just take your word for it over Ben's.

 

[Copeman]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Wallace would have had 1400+ yards this year if Big Ben did not get hurt. Elite. Simple as that.

Ben got hurt in week 14 against the Browns. Wallace's last 100 yard game in 2011 was week 7.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/2/15/2799468/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-already-working-out-confirms-right

Ben was fine up until he was injured against Cleveland in Week 14, when his play was clearly affected by his ankle. Anyone that watched the Steelers could see a dramatic difference in Wallace between the first and second half of the season. He was definitely having problems keeping his head in the game and had multiple drops of easy catches.I think he is a real nice receiver and would love to have him back but I think blaming his underwhelming performances in the second half of the season on Roethlisberger is a stretch.

I'll just take your word for it over Ben's.

Can you explain why that if it was Ben being hurt that led to Wallace's lack of production, then why did Brown have such a monster 2nd half then?

 

[Touchdown There]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Wallace would have had 1400+ yards this year if Big Ben did not get hurt. Elite. Simple as that.

Ben got hurt in week 14 against the Browns. Wallace's last 100 yard game in 2011 was week 7.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2012/2/15/2799468/steelers-qb-ben-roethlisberger-already-working-out-confirms-right

Ben was fine up until he was injured against Cleveland in Week 14, when his play was clearly affected by his ankle. Anyone that watched the Steelers could see a dramatic difference in Wallace between the first and second half of the season. He was definitely having problems keeping his head in the game and had multiple drops of easy catches.I think he is a real nice receiver and would love to have him back but I think blaming his underwhelming performances in the second half of the season on Roethlisberger is a stretch.

I'll just take your word for it over Ben's.

Can you explain why that if it was Ben being hurt that led to Wallace's lack of production, then why did Brown have such a monster 2nd half then?

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

 

[Copeman]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

 

[treat88]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

There's plenty of misinformation in this thread as is, but this is simply not true.If anything Ben repeatedly passed up the open looks in the short to intermediate game to force the ball down the field.It's one of the things that led to BA's demise in that he wanted Ben reading the field from the top down.Wallace's speed is definitely the straw that stirs Pitt's passing game, but Wallace's lack of production can not wholly be blamed on Ben's injuries, even the supposed non-date specific shoulder injury referenced above, not was it completely due to Brown's emergence. Wallace really played poorly over the last 10 weeks of the season all on his own merits.

 

[Touchdown There]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

 

[Touchdown There]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

There's plenty of misinformation in this thread as is, but this is simply not true.If anything Ben repeatedly passed up the open looks in the short to intermediate game to force the ball down the field.It's one of the things that led to BA's demise in that he wanted Ben reading the field from the top down.Wallace's speed is definitely the straw that stirs Pitt's passing game, but Wallace's lack of production can not wholly be blamed on Ben's injuries, even the supposed non-date specific shoulder injury referenced above, not was it completely due to Brown's emergence. Wallace really played poorly over the last 10 weeks of the season all on his own merits.

Horsepooey. I watched balls that used to hit Wallace in stride start dropping all around him.

 

[Copeman]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

 

[treat88]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

There's plenty of misinformation in this thread as is, but this is simply not true.If anything Ben repeatedly passed up the open looks in the short to intermediate game to force the ball down the field.It's one of the things that led to BA's demise in that he wanted Ben reading the field from the top down.Wallace's speed is definitely the straw that stirs Pitt's passing game, but Wallace's lack of production can not wholly be blamed on Ben's injuries, even the supposed non-date specific shoulder injury referenced above, not was it completely due to Brown's emergence. Wallace really played poorly over the last 10 weeks of the season all on his own merits.

Horsepooey. I watched balls that used to hit Wallace in stride start dropping all around him.

It's really kinda stupid, but I'll see your horsepooey and raise ya a bulldookie...you watched a different Wallace over the last 2/3 of the season than I did if that's your take.BTW, it's take the "top" off the defense, not the tail.

 

[Scooby1974]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

There's plenty of misinformation in this thread as is, but this is simply not true.If anything Ben repeatedly passed up the open looks in the short to intermediate game to force the ball down the field.It's one of the things that led to BA's demise in that he wanted Ben reading the field from the top down.Wallace's speed is definitely the straw that stirs Pitt's passing game, but Wallace's lack of production can not wholly be blamed on Ben's injuries, even the supposed non-date specific shoulder injury referenced above, not was it completely due to Brown's emergence. Wallace really played poorly over the last 10 weeks of the season all on his own merits.

Horsepooey. I watched balls that used to hit Wallace in stride start dropping all around him.

It's really kinda stupid, but I'll see your horsepooey and raise ya a bulldookie...you watched a different Wallace over the last 2/3 of the season than I did if that's your take.BTW, it's take the "top" off the defense, not the tail.

Tendered, not tagged. I think that if the ownership in Pittsburgh thought Wallace wasn't expendable on some level(see elite #1 WR), the man would have been tagged or signed by now. As it is, he was basically equal to a developing rookie in production outside of the anomaly of Brown only having 2 TD catches to go along with his 1100 yards receiving and 1100 return yards. Wallace is certainly above average due to his speed, and likely in the 15-18 ranking range of WR's in my book.

 

[Dexter Manley]

I am shocked by how poorly people understand this situation. Another team has to make an offer to Wallace that he wants to sign. He isn't going to sign a deal unless it is big. It is hard to see anybody making an offer big enough and giving up their pick.

I think any deal that offers him more money than he is tendered for this year will lead him to sign on the dotted line. If the Steelers don't match, I think he is gone.

Only if he and his agent are idiots. Here's the deal. If he stays with Pitt for 2.7 million this season and they franchise him next year, he's looking at averaging 6-7 million over this season and next. If he stays at Pitt with no long term deal and they don't franchise him next year, then he hits FA next year with a much larger market for his services. I'm sure he's looking to be paid like an elite wr. I would think any deal he signs is going to average at least 8 million per year.

 

[Touchdown There]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

We are just running in circles now. Wallace's average was hurt when Ben's shoulder and ankle were hurt.

 

[Copeman]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

We are just running in circles now. Wallace's average was hurt when Ben's shoulder and ankle were hurt.

Yet Brown's was not, and in fact went even higher.

 

[Scooby1974]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

We are just running in circles now. Wallace's average was hurt when Ben's shoulder and ankle were hurt.

Yet Brown's was not, and in fact went even higher.

I think we've established that Ben's shoulder injury only effected the long ball and long ball accuracy. All those laser sharp precision routes over the middle that require expert timing fell unaffected by said shoulder injury.

 

[Copeman]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

We are just running in circles now. Wallace's average was hurt when Ben's shoulder and ankle were hurt.

Yet Brown's was not, and in fact went even higher.

I think we've established that Ben's shoulder injury only effected the long ball and long ball accuracy. All those laser sharp precision routes over the middle that require expert timing fell unaffected by said shoulder injury.

Oh we have have we? Good thing Ben's medical team is on hand in this thread.Anyone watching Bens deep throws to Brown over the course of the last half would laugh at their assertions.

 

[Scooby1974]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

We are just running in circles now. Wallace's average was hurt when Ben's shoulder and ankle were hurt.

Yet Brown's was not, and in fact went even higher.

I think we've established that Ben's shoulder injury only effected the long ball and long ball accuracy. All those laser sharp precision routes over the middle that require expert timing fell unaffected by said shoulder injury.

Oh we have have we? Good thing Ben's medical team is on hand in this thread.Anyone watching Bens deep throws to Brown over the course of the last half would laugh at their assertions.

You just stepped in a puddle of sarcasm. Maybe you shouldn't walk and txt anymore.

 

[Copeman]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

Wallace averaged a whopping half yard more than Brown.

We are just running in circles now. Wallace's average was hurt when Ben's shoulder and ankle were hurt.

Yet Brown's was not, and in fact went even higher.

I think we've established that Ben's shoulder injury only effected the long ball and long ball accuracy. All those laser sharp precision routes over the middle that require expert timing fell unaffected by said shoulder injury.

Oh we have have we? Good thing Ben's medical team is on hand in this thread.Anyone watching Bens deep throws to Brown over the course of the last half would laugh at their assertions.

You just stepped in a puddle of sarcasm. Maybe you shouldn't walk and txt anymore.

What are you talking about? :splashsplashsplash:Huh?

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

I am shocked by how poorly people understand this situation. Another team has to make an offer to Wallace that he wants to sign. He isn't going to sign a deal unless it is big. It is hard to see anybody making an offer big enough and giving up their pick.

I think any deal that offers him more money than he is tendered for this year will lead him to sign on the dotted line. If the Steelers don't match, I think he is gone.

Only if he and his agent are idiots. Here's the deal. If he stays with Pitt for 2.7 million this season and they franchise him next year, he's looking at averaging 6-7 million over this season and next. If he stays at Pitt with no long term deal and they don't franchise him next year, then he hits FA next year with a much larger market for his services. I'm sure he's looking to be paid like an elite wr. I would think any deal he signs is going to average at least 8 million per year.

I really doubt that would get it done. The cap goes up after 2013, so I think it would take a lot of money to get him into a long term deal.

 

[Return of the Sheep]

I am shocked by how poorly people understand this situation. Another team has to make an offer to Wallace that he wants to sign. He isn't going to sign a deal unless it is big. It is hard to see anybody making an offer big enough and giving up their pick.

I think any deal that offers him more money than he is tendered for this year will lead him to sign on the dotted line. If the Steelers don't match, I think he is gone.

Only if he and his agent are idiots. Here's the deal. If he stays with Pitt for 2.7 million this season and they franchise him next year, he's looking at averaging 6-7 million over this season and next. If he stays at Pitt with no long term deal and they don't franchise him next year, then he hits FA next year with a much larger market for his services. I'm sure he's looking to be paid like an elite wr. I would think any deal he signs is going to average at least 8 million per year.

While I agree that he might want to break the bank when he hits free agency, he is taking a big risk. We have seen other players get killed by injuries and who knows what the future holds. Sanders should start the season healthy and lets not forget that he was looked at as the more polished receiver between him and brown. I could see a pie split equally between the 3 leading to a decreased value for Wallace next yr.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

There's plenty of misinformation in this thread as is, but this is simply not true.If anything Ben repeatedly passed up the open looks in the short to intermediate game to force the ball down the field.It's one of the things that led to BA's demise in that he wanted Ben reading the field from the top down.Wallace's speed is definitely the straw that stirs Pitt's passing game, but Wallace's lack of production can not wholly be blamed on Ben's injuries, even the supposed non-date specific shoulder injury referenced above, not was it completely due to Brown's emergence. Wallace really played poorly over the last 10 weeks of the season all on his own merits.

I respectfully disagree. I watched every game. Sure he forced the ball down field but it wasn't Wallace's fault they didn't connect. It was the double team and some poor throws where Mike had plenty of steps on the defenders. In some ways i was convinced they didn't care if they connected or not. They were trying to open up the field and maybe get lucky with a PI. There was a direct shift in either game plan or Ben's attention half way through the season. Wallace was either going deep or camping out at the line. The 5-15 yard plays were all transfered to Brown. Brown earned Ben's trust and Ben went to him, good or bad. Wallace in no way had a bad 10 games. he was visbaly frustrated at times due to not getting the ball when he had worked to get open. Ben instead pushed it 5 yards to Miller or threw to Brown.There was one game where wallace dropped a TD while tip toeing the back of the end zone but his drop percentage was remarkably low for a guy like Wallace.

 

[skycriesmary]

Even if he stays, he'll be splitting the ball with more people this year, and if he doesn't, the alternative landing spots aren't any better. if he goes to SF.

 

[Kenny Powers]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

I actually think his deep ball is one of his weaknesses. He overthrows and underthrows receivers, Wallace or whoever, seemingly much more often than the other elite QBs

 

[Kenny Powers]

And until you realize that removing Wallace from the equation doesn't preclude Pittsburgh from replacing him with another FA wideout. They are not being forced to chose between only "Wallace/Brown/Sanders" or "Brown/Sanders/Cotchery."

Of course not, but do you think they'll get someone in FA the quality of Wallace at a discounted price? Likely, the players of his quality are going to cause the same cap problems.

They dont need a WR of his quality to keep this a top 10 offense. They would need a dependable WR3.

Maybe I'm missing something. They were 12th in total yards (10th in passing) and 21st in points scored this past year. So you're saying they can lose their top RB and top WR, replace them with lessor talent, and somehow the offense will improve?

Todd Haley.Plus, if Roethlisberger wasnt hampered/missing time over the last 1/4 of the season they probably wouldve ended up top 10.

 

[Touchdown There]

That would be like asking why a 5 foot putt is easier than a 15 foot putt.

Not going to answer?You say Wallace's stats tailed off BECAUSE BEN WAS HURT. What, did Ben feel ok on those pass plays to Brown?

Ben's feelings do not matter, but his accuracy does. He knew his range. Mike Wallace is the guy taking the tail off the defense. His money ball is deep.

I actually think his deep ball is one of his weaknesses. He overthrows and underthrows receivers, Wallace or whoever, seemingly much more often than the other elite QBs

I meant that Wallace's money ball is deep. Ben's ability comes more in the form of him using his "big country" frame to buy time and let Wallace separate with his speed.

 

[cstu]

I am shocked by how poorly people understand this situation. Another team has to make an offer to Wallace that he wants to sign. He isn't going to sign a deal unless it is big. It is hard to see anybody making an offer big enough and giving up their pick.

I think any deal that offers him more money than he is tendered for this year will lead him to sign on the dotted line. If the Steelers don't match, I think he is gone.

Only if he and his agent are idiots. Here's the deal. If he stays with Pitt for 2.7 million this season and they franchise him next year, he's looking at averaging 6-7 million over this season and next. If he stays at Pitt with no long term deal and they don't franchise him next year, then he hits FA next year with a much larger market for his services. I'm sure he's looking to be paid like an elite wr. I would think any deal he signs is going to average at least 8 million per year.

While I agree that he might want to break the bank when he hits free agency, he is taking a big risk. We have seen other players get killed by injuries and who knows what the future holds. Sanders should start the season healthy and lets not forget that he was looked at as the more polished receiver between him and brown. I could see a pie split equally between the 3 leading to a decreased value for Wallace next yr.

All along I've questioned why Wallace would want to stay in Pittsburgh even for the same amount of money he will get offered. I think he's going to take the best offer from a team he wants to go and leave. It just seems that there are much better options for him than what he'll have to deal with in Pittsburgh.

 

[Hoosier16]

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.

That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

You might want to recheck your stats. According to Pro Football Focus, Wallace was 4th in the league in 2011 and 5th in the league in 2010 in YAC (when limiting to the top 70-80 WRs).If you limit it to just the guys who played the majority of the snaps for their teams (the #1s), Wallace finished 2nd in 2010 (6.3 yac) and 1st in 2011 (6.8 yac).

He's pretty good.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

they can lose their top RB ... replace them with lessor talent, and somehow the offense will improve?

Yes, depth will be hurt but my thoughts on the Steeler running game and who is the back best suited for our team are well known and have been for a couple years.

 

[Godsbrother]

If people are going to blame Ben for anything, blame him for smply not looking at Wallace even when Mike was open. He'd lock into Brown and force the ball in. Brown and Ben really seemed to work well together and Wallace was really being used as nothing but a decoy..

There's plenty of misinformation in this thread as is, but this is simply not true.If anything Ben repeatedly passed up the open looks in the short to intermediate game to force the ball down the field.It's one of the things that led to BA's demise in that he wanted Ben reading the field from the top down.Wallace's speed is definitely the straw that stirs Pitt's passing game, but Wallace's lack of production can not wholly be blamed on Ben's injuries, even the supposed non-date specific shoulder injury referenced above, not was it completely due to Brown's emergence. Wallace really played poorly over the last 10 weeks of the season all on his own merits.

I respectfully disagree. I watched every game. Sure he forced the ball down field but it wasn't Wallace's fault they didn't connect. It was the double team and some poor throws where Mike had plenty of steps on the defenders. In some ways i was convinced they didn't care if they connected or not. They were trying to open up the field and maybe get lucky with a PI. There was a direct shift in either game plan or Ben's attention half way through the season. Wallace was either going deep or camping out at the line. The 5-15 yard plays were all transfered to Brown. Brown earned Ben's trust and Ben went to him, good or bad. Wallace in no way had a bad 10 games. he was visbaly frustrated at times due to not getting the ball when he had worked to get open. Ben instead pushed it 5 yards to Miller or threw to Brown.There was one game where wallace dropped a TD while tip toeing the back of the end zone but his drop percentage was remarkably low for a guy like Wallace.

I don't disagree with anything you said here until your last sentence. Wallace had plenty of drops in the second half of the season and the buzz on all of the local talk shows was what is going on with Mike Wallace -- it was plain as day that he wasn't playing well. The poor play carried over into playoffs as well.

 

[Crazysight]

If Brown (owner of Bengals) doesn't offer Wallace a fat contract with a huge amount frontloaded he's a cheap fool. The Steelers wouldn't be able to clear the cap room to match without dropping half their team, and the Bengals would end up not only getting one of the most explosive receivers in the game to pair alongside the young star green, but they'd also rob their division rival/competitor of that same playmaker at the same time. They'd only sacrifice a first rounder in the mid-20s, and they'd still have a better first rounder from the silly raiders who gave it up to get Caron Palmer.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

If Brown (owner of Bengals) doesn't offer Wallace a fat contract with a huge amount frontloaded he's a cheap fool.

We already know this is pretty much true.

 

[The Hank]

If Brown (owner of Bengals) doesn't offer Wallace a fat contract with a huge amount frontloaded he's a cheap fool.

We already know this is pretty much true.

 

[womb]

I personally would like to see Wallace in a Pats uniform with a commadable salary in exchage for the latter of the 1st round draft choices.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I personally would like to see Wallace in a Pats uniform with a commadable salary in exchage for the latter of the 1st round draft choices.

You and every other Pats fan on the planet.

 

[womb]

I personally would like to see Wallace in a Pats uniform with a commadable salary in exchage for the latter of the 1st round draft choices.

You and every other Pats fan on the planet.

I am not so sure about that remark about all Pats fans. I personally would like it, simply because I believe Pats have found more success at skill positions due to free agency, trading and acquiring than drafting, but due to the recent success in Gronk and failure at 85, people may think differently - rightfully so. Also, a WR may not be the biggest need for the team for all fans out there, say like if the best safety is still on the board (whoever he is). My take is that if someone with talent streches the field, the short-to-mid range passes will have even more success which is bread and butter of the Pats offensive game. If that is covered, than a deep threat could go for a long catch. The problem here is "someone with talent". Does Mike Wallace fill those shoes? I think yes, but many would disagree. And many more would disagree that we need such a thing amongst our defensive needs. Long story short, I do not believe it is as obvious as you point it to be.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

To find a consensus here about labeling Wallace "elite" or not, can we agree that he is someone that needs extra attention on every down?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Sure he does, but so does just about any guy that can run a 4.3 that gets to run 9 routes all day(at least the ones that don't have "Dwight Stone level" hands).

Mike is a really good deep ball WR. He absolutely brings a dimension to the Steelers' offense that has to be accounted for. That does not make him an elite WR. There is nothing wrong with that though. Not every WR is/can be elite. I think people are getting hung up on labels. Saying a guy isn't elite doesn't mean he blows.

I feel the same way about Desean/Vincent Jackson, as a comparison. They are good WRs that can be hell on a team deep, but they aren't in Fitzgerald's/CJ's class as players. Wouldn't want to pay them like they were anymore than I'd want to pay Mike like he is either.

 

[duaneok66]

Sure he does, but so does just about any guy that can run a 4.3 that gets to run 9 routes all day(at least the ones that don't have "Dwight Stone level" hands).

Mike is a really good deep ball WR. He absolutely brings a dimension to the Steelers' offense that has to be accounted for. That does not make him an elite WR. There is nothing wrong with that though. Not every WR is/can be elite. I think people are getting hung up on labels. Saying a guy isn't elite doesn't mean he blows.

I feel the same way about Desean/Vincent Jackson, as a comparison. They are good WRs that can be hell on a team deep, but they aren't in Fitzgerald's/CJ's class as players. Wouldn't want to pay them like they were anymore than I'd want to pay Mike like he is either.

thank you. Sounds like common sense, but not in the overhyped world of FF.

 

[duaneok66]

To find a consensus here about labeling Wallace "elite" or not, can we agree that he is someone that needs extra attention on every down?

agreed.

 

[Shutout]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Yeah..speed. That little RARE thing that you can't teach.

That little thing that made people DROOL over guys like Randy Moss, Chris Johnson, DMAC, DJAX.

That little thing that makes everyone on the boards argue incessantly every February over .1 tenths of a second as they debate 40 times non-stop.

It seems like some Steelers fans are cutting their nose off to spite their face as they go on an on about "Worst case scenario" being GAINING cap money and a draft pick.

There are a couple of old addages: 1)A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The money you have in cap space means nothing if you don't spend it, spend it poorly, or spend it on something that doesn't offset your loss. The draft pick is worth far less if used in the same manner.

2) The time is now.

This "Worst casee scenario" being presented sounds like a gain when it is tossed out there but it IS what it IS and that is a loss: On some level, at the end of the day, you MUST account that you are setting yourself up to potentially LOSE Mike Wallace and a consequence of doing that may very well go a long way in preventing the Steelers from achieving their goal of competing or winning a Super Bowl for a while. Its almost comical to read these posts and not think this is denial on some people's parts as they act as if the Steelers can lose Wallace, go out there and pick up some guy fo a couple of million , and somehow this team is going to be stronger. It hurts you now, it hurts you short-term, and if you mess it up, it hurts you long-term because by the time this gained first pick develops and this re-invested money pans out, you have glaring needs elsewhere.

Honestly, I don't care enough about the Steelers one way or another to try to shed light on a subject to help Steelers fans. But, being unbiased and able to look at it without a dog in the fight, I just find it laughable that any comparable team would honestly think they are better off in a similar situation.

A houston fan wouldn't say "take foster, give me that 3 million and a rookie corner (even thought they could both).

A Giants fan wouldn't say "Take JPP and give me some money and a new DT.

I mean, really, Wallace was VERY productive and while he had a cold spot this past season for a bit, it wasn't that long ago when he had the NFL's longest 100 yard streak going, was catching TDs seemingly every game, was THE guy that was taking the lids off defenses for the Steelers, was leading the league in YPC. This is a player that is good enough that he WILL be missed and its gonna show.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

This "Worst casee scenario" being presented sounds like a gain

Its not. It is a loss. No ifs, ands, or buts.It just happens to have some consolation prizes.

 

[steelcityman]

If, and it a big IF, the Steelers lose Wallace to SF, or NE, or anyone who picks late in the first round, they can still get the player they want at 24, be it a NT, LB, OL, CB...and then with the extra pick take the WR from GATech, he ha 4.33 speed, will stretch the field and is said to be a great blocker and hard worker...just based on that, he could be better than wallace(COULD be).

Brown, Sanders, hopefully Cotchery, a drafted WR and a free agent WR would be fine.

 

[treat88]

It's not "as if" he's elite, he is. To be transparant, I've liked PIT since Bradshaw, Swann, Lambert, so I'm not taking potshots at them.

I will respectfully agree to disagree. I'm a 30+ year Steelers fan, so I'm certainly not taking potshots at Wallace either....but he's not elite. Elite players don't disappear for half a season and only run a couple routes.

Wallace did not disappear, Big Ben could not hit him deep because of his ankle. Wallace is elite.

Been a fan from back in the day as well and I 100% agree with 5-ish. Wallace has a rare and unique talent, namely speed. Outside of that one variable, an admittedly important one, he's a very average receiving talent. He's got average hands, marginal RAC skills, doesn't fight for 50/50 balls, and is a mediocre route runner outside of a 9 route.That's not what I think of when I think of elite.

Yeah..speed. That little RARE thing that you can't teach.

That little thing that made people DROOL over guys like Randy Moss, Chris Johnson, DMAC, DJAX.

That little thing that makes everyone on the boards argue incessantly every February over .1 tenths of a second as they debate 40 times non-stop.

It seems like some Steelers fans are cutting their nose off to spite their face as they go on an on about "Worst case scenario" being GAINING cap money and a draft pick.

There are a couple of old addages: 1)A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The money you have in cap space means nothing if you don't spend it, spend it poorly, or spend it on something that doesn't offset your loss. The draft pick is worth far less if used in the same manner.

2) The time is now.

This "Worst casee scenario" being presented sounds like a gain when it is tossed out there but it IS what it IS and that is a loss: On some level, at the end of the day, you MUST account that you are setting yourself up to potentially LOSE Mike Wallace and a consequence of doing that may very well go a long way in preventing the Steelers from achieving their goal of competing or winning a Super Bowl for a while. Its almost comical to read these posts and not think this is denial on some people's parts as they act as if the Steelers can lose Wallace, go out there and pick up some guy fo a couple of million , and somehow this team is going to be stronger. It hurts you now, it hurts you short-term, and if you mess it up, it hurts you long-term because by the time this gained first pick develops and this re-invested money pans out, you have glaring needs elsewhere.

Honestly, I don't care enough about the Steelers one way or another to try to shed light on a subject to help Steelers fans. But, being unbiased and able to look at it without a dog in the fight, I just find it laughable that any comparable team would honestly think they are better off in a similar situation.

A houston fan wouldn't say "take foster, give me that 3 million and a rookie corner (even thought they could both).

A Giants fan wouldn't say "Take JPP and give me some money and a new DT.

I mean, really, Wallace was VERY productive and while he had a cold spot this past season for a bit, it wasn't that long ago when he had the NFL's longest 100 yard streak going, was catching TDs seemingly every game, was THE guy that was taking the lids off defenses for the Steelers, was leading the league in YPC. This is a player that is good enough that he WILL be missed and its gonna show.

Despite my evaluation quoted above of Wallace (which I believe is accurate), there is no question he would be a major loss. Anyone saying otherwise is off base. I also agree that with the comment above that he does require extra attention on every play.The rookie pick and the extra cap space is simply making the best of a tough situation, if a team actually tenders Wallace an offer. (I don't think anyone will commit to him at the expected $$ plus a 1st)

But, despite the fact it is a consolation prize it's also very possible that Wallace's loss could lead to a stronger overall team even though it weakens the WR corp short term.

They'd have to hit on the first round picks and use the cap space they've created to fill holes, but if, and again it's a big if, they allocate their resources effectively they could fill multiple positions with very talented players. It's a long shot, but it's 3 possibly 4 starters between picks and FA they'd land by not matching a tender.

I don't think any Steeler fan actually wants Wallace to walk, but personally I don't want them to commit to him at the price tag that has been thrown around. 9 mill plus per season and 25 mill plus guaranteed is simply to rich for the overall health of the team. I'm betting the RFA tender holds and they work out a more cap friendly long term deal before camp instead of him playing out the season for 2.7 mil.

 

[Kenny Powers]

But, despite the fact it is a consolation prize it's also very possible that Wallace's loss could lead to a stronger overall team even though it weakens the WR corp short term.I don't think any Steeler fan actually wants Wallace to walk, but personally I don't want them to commit to him at the price tag that has been thrown around. 9 mill plus per season and 25 mill plus guaranteed is simply to rich for the overall health of the team. I'm betting the RFA tender holds and they work out a more cap friendly long term deal before camp instead of him playing out the season for 2.7 mil.

1st sentence is why I would not be distraught & angry if they let him walk.Next paragraph I agree with and think that makes a lot of sense for the team. That said, if the Skins will pay 3, likely early, #1 picks and this years 2nd, who wont giveaway a late #1 for Wallace Then again, its the Skins

 

[Touchdown There]

I don't think any Steeler fan actually wants Wallace to walk, but personally I don't want them to commit to him at the price tag that has been thrown around. 9 mill plus per season and 25 mill plus guaranteed is simply to rich for the overall health of the team. I'm betting the RFA tender holds and they work out a more cap friendly long term deal before camp instead of him playing out the season for 2.7 mil.

Wallace playing for 2.7 mil this year is not even a possibility. He will get other offers. Even if the "RFA tender holds" as you put it, it is because they match an offer or work out a long-term deal with Wallace.

 

[fatness]

Brown, Sanders, hopefully Cotchery, a drafted WR and a free agent WR would be fine.

If you want a mediocre passing attack, yeah.