BladeRunner
Footballguy
Right? Between that and hiring and actual TV Show Producer/Executive as a consultant are like the 2 biggest red flags that this thing is all show business, baby!!!
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***Official 1/6 Select Committee thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter dozer
- Start date
Right? Between that and hiring and actual TV Show Producer/Executive as a consultant are like the 2 biggest red flags that this thing is all show business, baby!!!
massraider
Footballguy
This Tony Ornato must be dying to testify. I keep looking for his public statement, and can't find it.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Just curious about something: Here is the relevant testimony:
So what specifically do you think is BS? Do you think Hutchinson made up the entire conversation? Do you think the conversation took place, but she's mischaracterizing its contents? You called it a "smear job", which implies she is deliberately lying to try to damage Trump, so presumably you don't think she just misheard Ornato or is misremembering details.
Something else I'm curious about: In your hypothetical, Hutchinson knowingly committed perjury by falsely describing a conversation with Ornato. But if she was making the whole thing up, and she mentioned that Engel was in the room, why wouldn't she just attribute the story to him? It would still be hearsay, but it would sound a lot more credible if she was directly quoting the guy to whom this had just happened. Instead, she put the words in the mouth of someone who wasn't even there. Seems like if you're going to make up a story, it's probably a good idea not to invent details that make the story less credible.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
(HULK)
(Smash)
Literally anyone who hasn't committed treason already is better.
As an independent, I'll tell you guys right now, I don't like DeSantis one bit either. You can definitely do better than him but it seems like y'all think he's your guy.
I really hope Biden retires and the Dems run someone new too.
I'll tell you right now, if Trump runs I'm voting Democrat.
If it's Biden vs DeSantis, I'm voting 3rd party like I did in 2016.
If both sides can put up someone decent, I'll be happy to actually have choices for once instead of having to hold my nose whilst pulling the lever.
Be more specific, what was wrong with Trump? Why don't you want him anywhere near elected office again?Ron DeSantis.
There are no reasonable Democrats that I would pull the lever for at this point. Every single one of them is either consumed with Trumpsanity, 335 years old or woke crazy. Maybe Tulsi Gabbard.
If Trump was the GOP nominee, I'd go 3rd Party. I might even write in my dog.
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ZADO
Footballguy
Mister CIA
Footballguy
ZADO
Footballguy
ZADO
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I feel like I've answered this about five times. I think the story about Trump trying to grab the wheel is BS. You buy it?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
That is absolutely ridiculous.
“Yes committee chairman, I know we have 3 witnesses who saw the murder take place, the murder weapon with fingerprints of the defendant on it and the defendants cloths covered with the victims blood, but the 3rd witness claimed she heard someone say the defendant yelled at at a Barista 2 hrs before the murder. The video shows this yelling never occurred. Clearly she’s lying and these entire proceedings are poisoned. Nothing here can be believed.”
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
She did admit that what they showed on screen was her handwriting. So she wrote something.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Put her through the process of verification and everyone can find out for themselves.
This doesn't help Team Blue with the Secret Service at all. This is the kind of stunt that turns an agencies goodwill against your Party and your brand.
The USSS doesn't want to testify. Not because they have something to hide but because it's not ethical nor appropriate considering their mandate. In order to testify and defend their integrity, they will be asked questions that reveal security protocols. How USSS covers a principle is a matter of actual national security.
This is a one side dog and pony show that simulates a "Third Impeachment" but also reboots a 2nd impeachment that went nowhere. In effect, by proxy, Team Blue has decided to keep putting Trump on "trial" again and again with no clear way to convict him of anything. That's a massive overreach of power by Pelosi and the rest.
The Commish
Footballguy
I took a spin to CNN, MSNBC, Fox, NewsMax, etc...By my count CNN had two main guys, Fox had three and MSNBC had two...tried to watch each of them....a completely fruitless and pointless effort. That Newsmax is just a complete and utter dumpster fire. Just validated my decision of 7 years ago...not happening again.
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
If we are to assume our bias on this topic lays somewhere on a spectrum between "Trump is guilty of an insurrection no matter what is presented" and "Trump is innocent regardless and this is a garbage witch hunt", I would hope we'd all strive to be somewhere in the middle and open to new information as it comes in. A healthy bit of skepticism is always warranted, but a persistent rejection of everyone and everything presented is nothing more than tribalism-induced confirmation bias run amok.
The Commish
Footballguy
Should also be pointed out, the committee isn't telling us anything new about Ornato now that we didn't know when he left the SS the first time. This is also not the first time or the fifth time that the "he said / she said" game has shown up with things Ornato said...goes back to why he left the SS the first time. People have short memories apparently.
The Commish
Footballguy
This can't exist when the standard is "everything has to 100% true or NONE of it is true". I'll say for the billionth time that the details of what happened in the vehicle are relatively meaningless and have no real basis in anything when compared to everything else. Just like it doesn't matter if it was BBQ sauce or ketchup on the wall. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why all the focus was on this specific thing.....until I watched the coverage on our "news" channels...then it all made sense.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Of course. Ultimately it comes down to self awareness and analyzing what's making you believe certain things. Do I believe Hutchinson's testimony is credible because I want it to be true or because it's actually credible? Do I dismiss everything she said because I want her to be a liar or because I genuinely think she is lying? To your point, if the standard I use is "everything has to be 100% true or none of it is true", is that the same standard I'd use for someone testifying against Hunter Biden? Probably not and is a good tell that you're dealing with a partisan hypocrite who just happens to be accusing everyone else of being partisan.
bigbottom
Footballguy
And it’s been pointed out countless times that she didn’t testify that Trump tried to grab the wheel. That may be what the media is reporting, as you expressly acknowledged upthread, but that is not what she testified to. It’s obvious that you are arguing this point simply for sport/entertainment, so I’ll leave you to it, but I know you know better.
bigbottom
Footballguy
If the secret service agents go on the record and refute the story purportedly told by Ornato about Trump trying to grab the wheel, that doesn’t really undermine Hutchinson’s credibility in my mind as it is 100% plausible (to me) that Ornato was just embellishing the story when he told it.
The issue with the handwritten note is much more concerning to me. If it is proven that she did not write the handwritten note that she testified under oath she herself wrote, it’s a significant credibility hit in my mind.
(HULK)
(Smash)
I believe Trump is guilty of several things that are serious crimes and already proven. But I'm always open to new data.
My jury is in on conspiracy to defraud the United States of an election result, illegally pressuring numerous state and federal officials, etc. My jury is still out on the level of his connection to the actual storming of the Capitol, but even if in the end he isn't directly tied to that, it doesn't matter. He deserves to be in jail for that phone call to Georgia, for the phony electors, for what he did at DoJ, for pressuring Pence, etc. He flagrantly acted against democracy's best interest multiple times, and that cannot be disputed by anyone rationale at this stage.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Yes and that's what protects her from perjury. That's why this is a show trial imo. The story is BS but she's only repeating it. You don't need to look any farther than this thread to see all the people discussing her "direct first hand" knowledge, and her "testimony under oath". I know you know this is the game they're playing. You think it gives her more credibility, I think it gives her less.
(HULK)
(Smash)
While the pearls they are different, both "sides" certainly love to clutch them tightly.
(HULK)
(Smash)
Me too. I'd love that actually. He's not perfect but he's focused on solving problems and has solid integrity.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
You seem focused on "show trial" and "BS". You understand that the two things below really are different, right?
Do you believe that Trump tried to grab/turn the wheel?
Do you believe that Ornato stated that Trump tried to grab/turn the wheel?
timschochet
Footballguy
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
Cheney asked her if that was her handwriting on the note that was displayed. Cassidy said that it was. And those words showed up in the “memo” written by someone else.
At least this is my understanding.
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Are any of us under the illusion that a bell will finally go off for Zado, BR, and Norville? We're trying to walk them down a road they're not interested in. They had their minds made up before the testimony began. They ain't budging.
timschochet
Footballguy
A few days ago I asked why Adam Schiff’s credibility would be in question, since he strikes me as an integrity guy, and certainly one of the smartest people we have in Congress. I received no compelling answer. I don’t believe there is one.
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
They're just trying to get people suspended I believe. They got one a couple days ago.
moleculo
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
They aren't budging but neither are you. I don't think they are arguing in bad faith.
Insein
Footballguy
So you're saying Trump talking randomly off the cuff to a crowd or to reporters has as much merit as this congressional hearing? I think we're finally on the same page then.
