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*** Official 2017 SF 49ers thread *** see original post or latest post for link to new 2018 thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Wingnut
- Start date
Short Corner
Footballguy
johnadams
Footballguy
Still probably the only way they would get him. I don't think he was going to become an UFA next year and if he did, niners don't usually get mixed up in bidding wars. Likelier, NE would have franchised him then let his agent negotiate a deal with another team pretty much exactly like they did with Cassell. Then, they would likely pay more for him in terms of both contract (definitely) and compensation (maybe) but pretty much going to the highest bidder in terms of dollars and NE's compensation. The niners have been bad in many areas recently, but they've been pretty good at structuring deals that are team friendly. By getting him now, they hold most of the leverage in negotiating with Jimmy G. They'll target a team friendly incentive laden deal that will reward Jimmy G. with high dollars if he performs but provide a relatively easy out if it doesn't work after a year or two. The leverage comes with the caveat of having enough cap room to let a franchise tag stick throughout the year. They've effectively removed the open market bidding and hold most of the cards.
JG has the leverage of knowing that SF can’t just let him walk after spending a premium pick to get him. And like Cousins, he stands to make a lot of money letting SF franchise tag him, repeatedly if necessary. It seems unlikely that he will roll over and take a team-friendly deal simply because SF can threaten to tag him.
Wingnut
Footballguy
http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/05/report-49ers-asked-patriots-about-trading-for-tom-brady/
Jimmy Garoppolo wasn’t the only Patriots quarterback the 49ers were interested in acquiring in the offseason.
According to Jay Glazer of FOX Sports, first-year general manager John Lynch inquired with New England coach Bill Belichick about trading for Tom Brady after initial trade discussions surrounding Garoppolo were rebuked.
The Patriots trading Brady sounds insane, particularly after his miraculous performance in Super Bowl XLI when he led a comeback from down 28-3 to beat the Falcons.
But Belichick has always been in line with Bill Walsh’s famous philosophy that it’s better to get rid of a player a year too early than too late. And Brady, 40, isn’t likely to play for much longer.
However, he’s playing as well as ever in 2017 and the Patriots couldn’t afford to keep both Brady and Garoppolo on the roster next year, so they traded the backup to a NFC team on the other side of the country. Brady has said he has multiple seasons left in the tank.
If Brady hadn’t won the Super Bowl in February, the Patriots might have been inclined to move Brady to the Bay Area to play for his home team and give Garoppolo a chance at being the centerpiece of the succession plan in New England.
Instead, the 49ers wound up with Garoppolo, who turned 26 this week, as their potential quarterback of the future.
Jimmy Garoppolo wasn’t the only Patriots quarterback the 49ers were interested in acquiring in the offseason.
According to Jay Glazer of FOX Sports, first-year general manager John Lynch inquired with New England coach Bill Belichick about trading for Tom Brady after initial trade discussions surrounding Garoppolo were rebuked.
The Patriots trading Brady sounds insane, particularly after his miraculous performance in Super Bowl XLI when he led a comeback from down 28-3 to beat the Falcons.
But Belichick has always been in line with Bill Walsh’s famous philosophy that it’s better to get rid of a player a year too early than too late. And Brady, 40, isn’t likely to play for much longer.
However, he’s playing as well as ever in 2017 and the Patriots couldn’t afford to keep both Brady and Garoppolo on the roster next year, so they traded the backup to a NFC team on the other side of the country. Brady has said he has multiple seasons left in the tank.
If Brady hadn’t won the Super Bowl in February, the Patriots might have been inclined to move Brady to the Bay Area to play for his home team and give Garoppolo a chance at being the centerpiece of the succession plan in New England.
Instead, the 49ers wound up with Garoppolo, who turned 26 this week, as their potential quarterback of the future.
johnadams
Footballguy
A team friendly deal doesn't preclude JG from getting paid as well. I'm not suggesting that JG will come along for $7mil a year or anything. Just that SF can structure a deal that front loads base salary to avoid the cap floor while having more space later in the contract. These are the type of things that are team friendly but harder to get on the open market. Cousins isn't a great comparison as he stands alone in seemingly welcoming the franchise tag. Most guys seem to hate the tag.
The franchise tag is not the worst outcome for SF either as it protects them if JG falls on his face as a full time starter. They need add ~$50mil in payroll to avoid cap floor penalties. Historically, teams have done this via veteran overpriced FAs (OAK a few years back comes to mind as they were rebuilding), but with a big chunk sunk into JG, SF can continue to focus on adding younger players (though we should still expect a few head scratcher signings).
I agree, 2.01 is steep, but it potentially solves a lot of issues that were going to need to be resolved anyway. My main issue is whether JG is the right QB, but if he is, it's a good move. We're not likely to convince each other either way, but at least it's better than talking about being 0-9.
drummer
Footballguy
TOP 15 OFFENSE *eggface*
Garropolo will be trade bait. He is too good looking to quarterback an ugly offense. Why risk him being the matador under a bull rush when he doesn't have the wheels that Beaten-Hard has? Outside of the pretty face, Beaten-Hard is physically better than Garoppolo because of the legs and arm. All the 0-9ers need is Jimmy "The Face" Garoppolo to get Lynched and his shoulder toasted again.
This team sucks.
Garropolo will be trade bait. He is too good looking to quarterback an ugly offense. Why risk him being the matador under a bull rush when he doesn't have the wheels that Beaten-Hard has? Outside of the pretty face, Beaten-Hard is physically better than Garoppolo because of the legs and arm. All the 0-9ers need is Jimmy "The Face" Garoppolo to get Lynched and his shoulder toasted again.
This team sucks.
Interesting. Hadn't thought of this angle, but they could possibly move him to the Browns for better draft capital than they gave. If the Browns were willing to give a 2nd and a 3rd for McCarren, what value would they place on Garropolo?
drummer
Footballguy
He could be worth another first round pick, and future picks in later draft years. HIs value right now without playing is better than say he starts a couple of games and doesn't look that good, or worse, get's back on IR, and given how bad the talent is on the offense as well as all the injuries to the offensive line, starting the golden goose behind that basket of broken eggs will just get him cooked.
They should keep him on ice - if Beathard isn't dead by that time - until like the last game where it's meaningless and the Rams are starting the scrubs. That way he can light it up and go into the offseason healthy and on a high note, and then they can see the offers for him.
Ala Matt Flynn a few years back...................
Agree that his value is probably at it's high point now. No sense messing that up..................
Yep. No way to deny it later down the road now unless the internet dies..............
Browns on the clock with the top pick of the 2018 draft. Roger stands up and announces "The Cleveland Browns have traded the first pick of the 2018 NFL draft to the SF 49ers for Jimmy Garropolo"
Hey, it could happen...............
Wingnut
Footballguy
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drummer
Footballguy
Well they probably never would have had it anyway, but to lose today against a team that tanked would had been worse lol
drummer
Footballguy
Wingnut
Footballguy
I meant they probably won't be using their first pick on a QB now (depending on Jimmy Gs audition goes)...I wont be surprised if they trade that pick
drummer
Footballguy
I still think Jimmy The Face is trade bait.
In other news, 49er fans are gushing over CJ Beatenhard over yesterday’s game. It’s like his games against winning teams like the Eagles and Cowboys never happened. If only the 49ers played against the Giants every week
drummer
Footballguy
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/13/kyle-shanahan-i-have-no-plan-for-playing-jimmy-garoppolo/
Considering how the Giants didn’t want to play football yesterday - Beatenhard didn’t get sacked or hit hardly at all yesterday - it would had been a perfect game to start The Face, but then he would have to start against Seattle, and Seattle doesn’t give up games, especially against the 49ers. So Beatenhard better enjoy what now is an extra bye week after yesterday’s scrimmage/exhibition game, to save The Face from having to get ugly
Considering how the Giants didn’t want to play football yesterday - Beatenhard didn’t get sacked or hit hardly at all yesterday - it would had been a perfect game to start The Face, but then he would have to start against Seattle, and Seattle doesn’t give up games, especially against the 49ers. So Beatenhard better enjoy what now is an extra bye week after yesterday’s scrimmage/exhibition game, to save The Face from having to get ugly
drummer
Footballguy
Who could have even more value in trade:
Carlos Hyde. Who now should want to sign a contract - he said he would not sign one until the first 49er win, so it's time to talk contract - and being that the 49ers are far from anywhere being a contender for the next two to three seasons, and Hyde's shelf life is like a case of Nutter Butter cookies in an apartment full of stoners...
A sign and trade deal for a running back who is not a feature back now or maybe ever but at least has value now, combined with The Face as trade bait if done right can wield a draft like Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys
Yeah, it's the beer talking
Carlos Hyde. Who now should want to sign a contract - he said he would not sign one until the first 49er win, so it's time to talk contract - and being that the 49ers are far from anywhere being a contender for the next two to three seasons, and Hyde's shelf life is like a case of Nutter Butter cookies in an apartment full of stoners...
A sign and trade deal for a running back who is not a feature back now or maybe ever but at least has value now, combined with The Face as trade bait if done right can wield a draft like Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys
Yeah, it's the beer talking
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drummer
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Just to give a little insight on “how to keep 49er fans fed on schedule” : this is the kind of stuff Fooch used as filler emailing anyone who can fill in for the pending time slot. James Brady is a bit of a Richard, well a huge one, but why make the matchup of Wilson vs. Garoppolo something that probably will not happen? Wilson with the Seahawks will smoke Garoppolo. Injuries or not.
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/11/20/16683108/49ers-seahawks-injuries-jimmy-garoppolo-cj-beathard
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/11/20/16683108/49ers-seahawks-injuries-jimmy-garoppolo-cj-beathard
Wingnut
Footballguy
Cool article here. The ship seems very calm, everyone seems to be buying into the leadership and know its gonna get even tougher before it gets better.
http://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/28909/first-win-took-too-long-but-lack-of-fissures-bodes-well-for-49ers-future
First win took too long, but lack of fissures bodes well for 49ers' future
SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- Much like their first victory, the San Francisco 49ers' bye week took too long to make its arrival. But if there's been one benefit to having both occur in such short order, it's this: The Niners got to enjoy the spoils of their first win a little longer than usual.
As the 49ers begin this week of preparation for the Seattle Seahawks coming off the latest bye the NFL allows, they return fresh, rested and still wearing smiles on their faces from their first victory under coach Kyle Shanahan and general manager John Lynch.
“I got that monkey off my back," Shanahan said. "Now I have to get my second one or that will eventually be a monkey, too. That was just one win, but it definitely felt good and we worked hard for it. That’s not what our goal was. We’ve got a lot of goals ahead of us.”
While it's certainly important to keep the Niners' first victory in perspective, the thing that bodes better for the team's future than a single win against a dismal opponent is how they arrived at that win.
As the Niners endured loss after loss to open the season, eventually starting 0-9 for the first time in franchise history, there never seemed to be a time where the pratfalls that go with such losing permeated the locker room. No fingers were ever pointed in a public forum, whether after another in the string of an NFL-record five consecutive losses by three or fewer points or a blowout defeat at the hands of the Dallas Cowboys.
“I think any other team in the NFL, if they have a record like ours, you can just see teams rip themselves apart," tight end Garrett Celek said. "The types of guys that are in this locker room that John and Kyle brought in are so tight."
Unlike the team the 49ers beat, the New York Giants, there were no reports of anyone's job being in danger or anonymous players talking about how foul the culture had become. Yes, the Niners are in the first year of a rebuild under Shanahan and Lynch, and yes, that's a much different spot than where the Giants are. It's still instructive to note that the 49ers never fractured in the face of so many disheartening losses.
"No one’s ever wavered, no one’s ever pointed fingers," left tackle Joe Staley said. "We’ve all just kind of buckled down. That’s a tribute to Kyle and the leadership group that he brought in with the front office and his coaching staff. And then also the veteran players, it’s really keeping the guys, keeping everybody locked in, because you’re not going to win games, you’re not going to turn things around by pointing fingers. And I think guys really bought in, guys really believed and I’m really excited to see where we go from here."
In a survey of about a dozen players in the locker room, not one expressed a sentiment any different from Staley's. Sure, there was frustration; that's only natural given the record. Still, none could offer an example where they questioned one another. Safety Eric Reid said he never considered the possibility of going 0-16, and linebacker Eli Harold said keeping the locker room together in the face of adversity has been "effortless."
So how did the Niners avoid even one notable incident of infighting? Defensive tackle Earl Mitchell pointed to Shanahan's emphasis on being "like a shark."
"A lot of it is just having the right mindset, having the type of guys who will stay the same regardless," Mitchell said. "At the end of the day, if you have the right guys in your locker room -- and I feel like we do -- you have a really good chance of putting anybody out there and winning a game on any given Sunday."
In any rebuild, there are always going to be more bad times that come before the good. To be sure, the 49ers are nowhere near past the rough patches. More are on the way. The good news is they've proved they can handle a losing streak unprecedented in franchise history without having it break them apart.
Clearly, there's still a ton of work needed to make the Niners a contender again. Much of that will come in the offseason. For now, the team's continued emphasis on culture seems to be working. The next step is to turn that into something more tangible.
“I think you form that closeness or that brotherhood, whatever it is, you form it from the beginning and all the way to the end," Shanahan said. "I've been on a lot of teams where things are going well and everyone talks about how tight they are, and then you lose two games in a row and you start to realize some of the people you were tight with you didn't know them as well as you thought. That [closeness] happened with us from the beginning and it’s gone on for a long time. By no means is everything perfect and every relationship perfect, but you battle through things together.
"We've had a lot of good and bad here, and I think the guys really do believe [in] each other. I think the guys, you can't get through this stuff unless everyone's pulling each other or helping each other out. Not one person could change this. We needed everyone to change it. ... And I plan on that making us better. I hope we can come back next week and be better from it and continue to get better throughout the year, and I hope that leads into something for next year.”
http://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/28909/first-win-took-too-long-but-lack-of-fissures-bodes-well-for-49ers-future
First win took too long, but lack of fissures bodes well for 49ers' future
SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- Much like their first victory, the San Francisco 49ers' bye week took too long to make its arrival. But if there's been one benefit to having both occur in such short order, it's this: The Niners got to enjoy the spoils of their first win a little longer than usual.
As the 49ers begin this week of preparation for the Seattle Seahawks coming off the latest bye the NFL allows, they return fresh, rested and still wearing smiles on their faces from their first victory under coach Kyle Shanahan and general manager John Lynch.
“I got that monkey off my back," Shanahan said. "Now I have to get my second one or that will eventually be a monkey, too. That was just one win, but it definitely felt good and we worked hard for it. That’s not what our goal was. We’ve got a lot of goals ahead of us.”
While it's certainly important to keep the Niners' first victory in perspective, the thing that bodes better for the team's future than a single win against a dismal opponent is how they arrived at that win.
As the Niners endured loss after loss to open the season, eventually starting 0-9 for the first time in franchise history, there never seemed to be a time where the pratfalls that go with such losing permeated the locker room. No fingers were ever pointed in a public forum, whether after another in the string of an NFL-record five consecutive losses by three or fewer points or a blowout defeat at the hands of the Dallas Cowboys.
“I think any other team in the NFL, if they have a record like ours, you can just see teams rip themselves apart," tight end Garrett Celek said. "The types of guys that are in this locker room that John and Kyle brought in are so tight."
Unlike the team the 49ers beat, the New York Giants, there were no reports of anyone's job being in danger or anonymous players talking about how foul the culture had become. Yes, the Niners are in the first year of a rebuild under Shanahan and Lynch, and yes, that's a much different spot than where the Giants are. It's still instructive to note that the 49ers never fractured in the face of so many disheartening losses.
"No one’s ever wavered, no one’s ever pointed fingers," left tackle Joe Staley said. "We’ve all just kind of buckled down. That’s a tribute to Kyle and the leadership group that he brought in with the front office and his coaching staff. And then also the veteran players, it’s really keeping the guys, keeping everybody locked in, because you’re not going to win games, you’re not going to turn things around by pointing fingers. And I think guys really bought in, guys really believed and I’m really excited to see where we go from here."
In a survey of about a dozen players in the locker room, not one expressed a sentiment any different from Staley's. Sure, there was frustration; that's only natural given the record. Still, none could offer an example where they questioned one another. Safety Eric Reid said he never considered the possibility of going 0-16, and linebacker Eli Harold said keeping the locker room together in the face of adversity has been "effortless."
So how did the Niners avoid even one notable incident of infighting? Defensive tackle Earl Mitchell pointed to Shanahan's emphasis on being "like a shark."
"A lot of it is just having the right mindset, having the type of guys who will stay the same regardless," Mitchell said. "At the end of the day, if you have the right guys in your locker room -- and I feel like we do -- you have a really good chance of putting anybody out there and winning a game on any given Sunday."
In any rebuild, there are always going to be more bad times that come before the good. To be sure, the 49ers are nowhere near past the rough patches. More are on the way. The good news is they've proved they can handle a losing streak unprecedented in franchise history without having it break them apart.
Clearly, there's still a ton of work needed to make the Niners a contender again. Much of that will come in the offseason. For now, the team's continued emphasis on culture seems to be working. The next step is to turn that into something more tangible.
“I think you form that closeness or that brotherhood, whatever it is, you form it from the beginning and all the way to the end," Shanahan said. "I've been on a lot of teams where things are going well and everyone talks about how tight they are, and then you lose two games in a row and you start to realize some of the people you were tight with you didn't know them as well as you thought. That [closeness] happened with us from the beginning and it’s gone on for a long time. By no means is everything perfect and every relationship perfect, but you battle through things together.
"We've had a lot of good and bad here, and I think the guys really do believe [in] each other. I think the guys, you can't get through this stuff unless everyone's pulling each other or helping each other out. Not one person could change this. We needed everyone to change it. ... And I plan on that making us better. I hope we can come back next week and be better from it and continue to get better throughout the year, and I hope that leads into something for next year.”
drummer
Footballguy
I like this. It's like saying "We are 1-4 in the pre-season, but that one win...man it pulled us all together"
*And they still only won one game*
"No one’s ever wavered, no one’s ever pointed fingers," left tackle Joe Staley said. "We’ve all just kind of buckled down. That’s a tribute to Kyle and the leadership group that he brought in with the front office and his coaching staff. And then also the veteran players, it’s really keeping the guys, keeping everybody locked in, because you’re not going to win games, you’re not going to turn things around by pointing fingers. And I think guys really bought in, guys really believed and I’m really excited to see where we go from here."
*But you only won one game*
"The good news is they've proved they can handle a losing streak unprecedented in franchise history without having it break them apart."
*This is the eighth game they have won in two plus seasons*
"SANTA CLARA, Calif."
Is not San Francisco
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drummer
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Even the Chef fans call Alexcuses:
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/23/16689470/alex-smith-all-22-vs-giants-another-disappointment
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/23/16689470/alex-smith-all-22-vs-giants-another-disappointment
drummer
Footballguy
Why you can exhale...
Your latest 49er thread will still have more pages than they will wins.
Some fan you never were.
Jimmy Garopolo threw a TD pass..
and this thread is dead.
Where are you Nut? Do I have to shame you back in this thread?
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49ers Twitter seems to be all in on Jimmy. He was OK but I didn’t see anything too impressive. He hit some wide open guys, but couldn’t generate a TD against a bad defense. And he was hardly pressured at all the whole game. It reminded me a lot of Beathard against NYG a couple weeks ago (then again, the NYG game was the only Beathard game I’ve watched this year)
You can't be serious.
Guy is playing with Goodwin as his number 1 WR and Louis Friggin Murphy as one of his starters. His throws were on point all game (even the pick was a good pass that Fuller made a good play taking the ball away from Murphy). He even gave us a glimpse of the kind of player Taylor can be by hitting him in stride instead of getting him killed with Bethard type passes.
Murphy drops an easy short pass that would have given them a first down inside the 10 and then they are down there again with 3rd and 1 and two straight false start penalties make it 3rd and 11. Decent chance to score TDs there and then another at game end but they played for the field goal.
I know it was the Bears and they suck, but still a pretty solid performance in his first start. To make any comparison to Bethard is just foolish.................
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ok. CJ had the same limitations and was just as good or better a couple weeks ago, and he’s a rookie. I’m not saying Jimmy isn’t going to be better than CJ or a franchise-level QB, but everyone who is saying the Niners are set for the future after seeing that game is drinking the kool aid.
Wingnut
Footballguy
I'm reserving judgement til he has a few starts under his belt. I didn't watch any of the game so I can't comment on how he looked today, but I didn't expect much from his 1st start. He hasn't had much time to develop any chemistry or timing with his receivers or the offense in general, so we will see how he does as he gets more playing time.
drummer
Footballguy
They said the same thing you are when Blaine Gabbert won his first start.
It has got to the point with 49er fans that ANY QB who can make a throw is a franchise QB in their first start against a bad team. C.J. Beathard was the “starter next season” after the Giants game. Now Garoppolo is right there in the conversation with Russell Wilson and Jared Goff as the division quarterbacks because of this game.
Thats how 49er fans set themselves up for disappointment. Because they have unrealistic expectations, finding a small kernel sample like Garoppolo’s passer rating of last weeks 2 throws to post it all over Twitter lol. They grade a quarterback after one game. Not after six games.
ETA: I don’t think future opposing defenses will over look Goodwin as Garoppolo’s primary target either. It’s when a defense takes away your best target(s) and makes a quarterback spread the ball around.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
You're right but when you're raised with 31 years of Montana-young, I kinda get the rush to judgement.
drummer
Footballguy
Well don’t forget Jeff Garcia either. No 49er quarterback since Garcia posted those his numbers during his Pro-Bowl seasons. Heck there hasn’t been a PB quarterback since IIRC.
Nobody here is proclaiming him a "franchise QB" (at least if they did, I missed it), but to compare him to Bethard or Gabbert is just looking for the negative. Anyone who watched the game saw a much more polished QB than either of them will ever be.
And no, nobody here was ever high on Gabbert above the "he is better than we expected and let's see if he can build on that" aspect.
Nice to see some drives extended and keep the defense off the field too. Converting on 3rd down was a nice change.
The Bears are an underrated def at home. They are the #11 defense in the league. First start for a new team on the road against a good D. Got the win. You have to be impressed by that.
drummer
Footballguy
And when Garoppolo has a game that doesn’t look so polished would bring him back to the Beathard conversation. You grade him out the rest of the season. Beathard might not be polished but Garoppolo hasn’t taken the punishment he has either. At least not yet.
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