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Official CJ Spiller (1 Viewer)

What have you done for me lately is alot better than what have you done for me ever? What has cj done other than be disappointing everywhere hes been? He's lost his job to old men, undrafted players, etc

 
FF Ninja said:
I love how "what have you done for me lately?" and situation have such a huge influence on talent evaluation here. Demarco Murray was supposedly the best RB in football last year and he's suddenly chopped liver this year. Spiller is not getting touches and suddenly Dion Lewis is better than him.

Given usage and situation, Dion is currently a better fantasy play, but talent wise, no.
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Has CJ ever beat anyone out for the starting job with all that talent your evaluation has attributed to him?

If I recall even in his decent stretch 2012/13 he only got the play time following a string of injuries to FJax, and lost it again when he came back..

 
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Spiller hasn't done anything in 2.5 years now... I'm an owner in 2 of 3 leagues but he appears to be a one trick pony. Dion Lewis is a Swiss army knife that has better hands, better blocker, more elusive,and more powerful and that equates to being a flat out better football player. Spiller has him in straight line speed and that's about it.

 
YoUnG GuNz said:
Spiller hasn't done anything in 2.5 years now... I'm an owner in 2 of 3 leagues but he appears to be a one trick pony. Dion Lewis is a Swiss army knife that has better hands, better blocker, more elusive,and more powerful and that equates to being a flat out better football player. Spiller has him in straight line speed and that's about it.
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the fact that spiller is always dinged up with one thing or another drops his value

 
RoosterScott said:
The fact that somebody gave him $8,000,000 a year to touch the rock once or twice a game is simply mind boggling!
Click to expand...
See, the thing is all the things you guys are saying -

1. The coaching staff misuses him

2. He doesn't get enough touches

3. If he gets the right opportunity, he's gone.

4. So much talent

5. So much potential

Are all the things Bills fans said about him for years too.

He had 3/4ths of a good season, once, years ago.

Maybe it isn't the plethora of coaches he's had, but rather it's something about him, something beyond the gaudy YPC number and mind-boggling speed. Maybe he's just a speed back who benefited from a 10 game stretch once where teams were more focused on Chan Gaily's passing game and Fred Jackson's running instead.

Maybe the Saints realized this after they got him into camp, and said, crap.

 
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flysack said:
RoosterScott said:
The fact that somebody gave him $8,000,000 a year to touch the rock once or twice a game is simply mind boggling!
Click to expand...
See, the thing is all the things you guys are saying -

1. The coaching staff misuses him

2. He doesn't get enough touches

3. If he gets the right opportunity, he's gone.

4. So much talent

5. So much potential

Are all the things Bills fans said about him for years too.

He had 3/4ths of a good season, once, years ago.

Maybe it isn't the plethora of coaches he's had, but rather it's something about him, something beyond the gaudy YPC number and mind-boggling speed. Maybe he's just a speed back who benefited from a 10 game stretch once where teams were more focused on Chan Gaily's passing game and Fred Jackson's running instead.

Maybe the Saints realized this after they got him into camp, and said, crap.
Click to expand...
Completely disagree.

There is such a thing as coaches who have talented players and have no clue how to use them. Look at the Dolphins. On the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Horror show. BC of a lack of talent? No. A lack of rational coaching!

Look at the bills. Are the coaches who held back spoiler still there? Why not? BC they sucked. And they could not figure out the formula for putting a winning team on the field. That's why.

Do you think the coaching staff in NO is just wrong about spiller? Look at the entire team. Look at their record. You're assuming they are making smart player personnel decisions. They aren't.

Spiller gets injured a lot, but when he is healthy he can be a difference maker on the field. A game breaker. He should be getting a minimum of 10-15 touches per game. Figure 8 catches and 2-7 carries. Ingram should be the power back. It's doesn't have to be so predictable either since they both can run and catch. NE seems to do pretty well with this strategy using Lewis and Blount and before that Blount and vereen. And before that Ridley and vereen.

Good coaches find ways to involve their most explosive players.

What would be interesting is if they schemes to get both Ingram AND spiller on the field together. Both in the backfield. Or Ingram behind brees with spiller split out wide more often.

I mean come on. Payton was able to use sproles. Now all of the sudden he has no clue how to use spiller...the saints offense is really vanilla and predictable now.

 
Spiller owner and strong supporter for several years. I traded Arian Foster for him straight up after the big season (2012?). Regret that now, but loved it then.

Is it possible that he is just not picking up the playbook? I could be mistaken, but I think that he scored extremely low on the Wonderlic. Maybe he is just none-too-swift upstairs. If you arent where you are supposed to be or seem confused in the huddle, you will find your way to the bench and have your snaps limited to the few plays that you do know. Im reaching, because I dont think Payton is an idiot and I feel there has to be more to it. As noted, we saw how he used Sproles. He also maximized PTs talent for years, making an average player a valuable commodity. There has to be more to this situation than meets the eye. Guy is healthy, and barely playing on a team struggling to score and in desperate need of a playmaker - which is exactly what he is supposed to be.

 
Chaka said:
RoosterScott said:
The fact that somebody gave him $8,000,000 a year to touch the rock once or twice a game is simply mind boggling!
Click to expand...
He is getting $4 mil/year. Still too much but it's a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Average over the life of the contract (4/$16M.)

This year it's actually $750K base and $1.25M signing bonus. The cap hit is only $2M this year, and his dead money is $5.75M - this was a relatively cheap deal for the Saints. Next year's salary and next year's roster bonus (plus the aforementioned signing bonus) are the only guaranteed portions.

 
ChuckLiddell said:
Spiller owner and strong supporter for several years. I traded Arian Foster for him straight up after the big season (2012?). Regret that now, but loved it then.

Is it possible that he is just not picking up the playbook? I could be mistaken, but I think that he scored extremely low on the Wonderlic. Maybe he is just none-too-swift upstairs. If you arent where you are supposed to be or seem confused in the huddle, you will find your way to the bench and have your snaps limited to the few plays that you do know. Im reaching, because I dont think Payton is an idiot and I feel there has to be more to it. As noted, we saw how he used Sproles. He also maximized PTs talent for years, making an average player a valuable commodity. There has to be more to this situation than meets the eye. Guy is healthy, and barely playing on a team struggling to score and in desperate need of a playmaker - which is exactly what he is supposed to be.
Click to expand...
The Saints are doing a bunch of stuff they have never done in Payton's whole 10 year tenure. To me this team would make more sense offensively with Ingram and Robinson splitting carries and a healthy dose of passes to Spiller, and maybe also Robinson or Murphy. This team actually needs Spiller's services and talents. They are bone dry at receiver, they have 2 injuries on the line, the TEs are out of the picture (also a first, even considering pre-Graham), and they're constantly falling behind because of defensive failures. The whole recipe is there for Spiller, but they're not using him. It's doubly frustrating as a fan. The best speculation I've heard is that they're afraid he's too fragile or isn't fully recovered from his injury, I don't buy it but it's the only rational explanation. However IMO what's going on with the Saints right now is front office turmoil and the whole thing is fubarred.

 
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BobbyLayne said:
Chaka said:
RoosterScott said:
The fact that somebody gave him $8,000,000 a year to touch the rock once or twice a game is simply mind boggling!
Click to expand...
He is getting $4 mil/year. Still too much but it's a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Average over the life of the contract (4/$16M.)

This year it's actually $750K base and $1.25M signing bonus. The cap hit is only $2M this year, and his dead money is $5.75M - this was a relatively cheap deal for the Saints. Next year's salary and next year's roster bonus (plus the aforementioned signing bonus) are the only guaranteed portions.
Click to expand...
Yeah I saw that. Didn't want to break it down that much. Even at $2 mil he's overpaid.

 
YoUnG GuNz said:
Spiller hasn't done anything in 2.5 years now... I'm an owner in 2 of 3 leagues but he appears to be a one trick pony. Dion Lewis is a Swiss army knife that has better hands, better blocker, more elusive,and more powerful and that equates to being a flat out better football player. Spiller has him in straight line speed and that's about it.
Click to expand...
Um, what? You got some PFF grades or something to back up that nonsense?

It's true that is has been a while since Spiller has been a fantasy force, but look at the facts. Chan Gailey drafted him and was able to utilize his skill set for some eye popping per play numbers. The next two years were the Doug Marrone years, which were pretty dismal all around for the Bills. Additionally, in 2013 Spiller got a dreaded high ankle sprain that he played through. If you look at his splits, he was a stud again after he got healthier (last 8 games - 111 carries @ 5.1 ypc vs 4.0 for the first half, his ypr jumped to 7.8 from 3.2). If you want to knock him for the high ankle sprain, fine play the injury prone card, but the dude was still racking up 90 YFS on 16 touches a game on a garbage offense (the combo of Doug Marrone and rookie QB EJ Manuel). In 2014 it was still a garbage offense and he broke his collarbone on a 53 yard rush. Just looking at the facts, outside of his rookie year and that last year in Buffalo, the guy has produced exceptionally well when healthy. It hasn't always paid off fantasy dividends, but purely as a football player he's been awesome.

I'm not a dynasty owner or anything. I just see a guy with decent size, explosive speed, who makes nice hands catches (rather than trying to catch with his body) playing on a team that made Sproles an RB1 in 0ppr. Right now it doesn't look like they are going to involve him like Sproles or Reggie Bush, which is baffling considering the dearth of other playmaking options on the team. If you want to buy low on him right now (or continue burning a roster spot), you're gambling that Sean Payton makes some adjustments after a 1-4 start. Seems like a reasonable gamble, but impossible to bank on.

It is bizarre that a team struggling so badly is only giving this guy about 25% of the snaps. They should at least line him up in the slot. He couldn't possibly be worse than Cooks at securing the ball in traffic.

 
rickyg said:
flysack said:
RoosterScott said:
The fact that somebody gave him $8,000,000 a year to touch the rock once or twice a game is simply mind boggling!
Click to expand...
See, the thing is all the things you guys are saying -

1. The coaching staff misuses him

2. He doesn't get enough touches

3. If he gets the right opportunity, he's gone.

4. So much talent

5. So much potential

Are all the things Bills fans said about him for years too.

He had 3/4ths of a good season, once, years ago.

Maybe it isn't the plethora of coaches he's had, but rather it's something about him, something beyond the gaudy YPC number and mind-boggling speed. Maybe he's just a speed back who benefited from a 10 game stretch once where teams were more focused on Chan Gaily's passing game and Fred Jackson's running instead.

Maybe the Saints realized this after they got him into camp, and said, crap.
Click to expand...
Completely disagree.

There is such a thing as coaches who have talented players and have no clue how to use them. Look at the Dolphins. On the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Horror show. BC of a lack of talent? No. A lack of rational coaching!

Look at the bills. Are the coaches who held back spoiler still there? Why not? BC they sucked. And they could not figure out the formula for putting a winning team on the field. That's why.

Do you think the coaching staff in NO is just wrong about spiller? Look at the entire team. Look at their record. You're assuming they are making smart player personnel decisions. They aren't.

Spiller gets injured a lot, but when he is healthy he can be a difference maker on the field. A game breaker. He should be getting a minimum of 10-15 touches per game. Figure 8 catches and 2-7 carries. Ingram should be the power back. It's doesn't have to be so predictable either since they both can run and catch. NE seems to do pretty well with this strategy using Lewis and Blount and before that Blount and vereen. And before that Ridley and vereen.

Good coaches find ways to involve their most explosive players.

What would be interesting is if they schemes to get both Ingram AND spiller on the field together. Both in the backfield. Or Ingram behind brees with spiller split out wide more often.

I mean come on. Payton was able to use sproles. Now all of the sudden he has no clue how to use spiller...the saints offense is really vanilla and predictable now.
Click to expand...
I wish you were in my fantasy league.

 
FF Ninja said:
YoUnG GuNz said:
Spiller hasn't done anything in 2.5 years now... I'm an owner in 2 of 3 leagues but he appears to be a one trick pony. Dion Lewis is a Swiss army knife that has better hands, better blocker, more elusive,and more powerful and that equates to being a flat out better football player. Spiller has him in straight line speed and that's about it.
Click to expand...
Um, what? You got some PFF grades or something to back up that nonsense?

It's true that is has been a while since Spiller has been a fantasy force, but look at the facts. Chan Gailey drafted him and was able to utilize his skill set for some eye popping per play numbers. The next two years were the Doug Marrone years, which were pretty dismal all around for the Bills. Additionally, in 2013 Spiller got a dreaded high ankle sprain that he played through. If you look at his splits, he was a stud again after he got healthier (last 8 games - 111 carries @ 5.1 ypc vs 4.0 for the first half, his ypr jumped to 7.8 from 3.2). If you want to knock him for the high ankle sprain, fine play the injury prone card, but the dude was still racking up 90 YFS on 16 touches a game on a garbage offense (the combo of Doug Marrone and rookie QB EJ Manuel). In 2014 it was still a garbage offense and he broke his collarbone on a 53 yard rush. Just looking at the facts, outside of his rookie year and that last year in Buffalo, the guy has produced exceptionally well when healthy. It hasn't always paid off fantasy dividends, but purely as a football player he's been awesome.

I'm not a dynasty owner or anything. I just see a guy with decent size, explosive speed, who makes nice hands catches (rather than trying to catch with his body) playing on a team that made Sproles an RB1 in 0ppr. Right now it doesn't look like they are going to involve him like Sproles or Reggie Bush, which is baffling considering the dearth of other playmaking options on the team. If you want to buy low on him right now (or continue burning a roster spot), you're gambling that Sean Payton makes some adjustments after a 1-4 start. Seems like a reasonable gamble, but impossible to bank on.

It is bizarre that a team struggling so badly is only giving this guy about 25% of the snaps. They should at least line him up in the slot. He couldn't possibly be worse than Cooks at securing the ball in traffic.
Click to expand...
I doesn't bother me if you think Spiller is better than Lewis but to keep calling it "nonsense" makes no sense in light of what is happening on the field. I believe Lewis leads the league in forcing missed tackles, has caught 77% of his targets for 10.3 YPR and is averaging 5 yards per rush.

We haven't seen much of Spiller yet this year so I won't draw direct comparison to just his time in New Orleans, but what Lewis is doing is almost identical to Spiller's career numbers (78% receptions, 7.9 YPR & 5 YPA). It is not crazy to suggest that Lewis may be better than Spiller (or as good as) at this point in their careers. It certainly isn't nonsense to consider it.

 
rickyg said:
What would be interesting is if they schemes to get both Ingram AND spiller on the field together. Both in the backfield. Or Ingram behind brees with spiller split out wide more often.
Click to expand...
I'm in tears. Hey Bills fans, Greg, Steve, etc. - remember this one? Fred and C.J. on the field at the same time! It'd be unstoppable!

:lmao: :lmao:

ricky, my friend, you have no idea how much you sound like an echo.

 
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This has been my biggest disappointment in my drafts and as a Saints fan this year. CJ is hitting the wire in my last league next week, just couldn't bring myself to cut bait entirely before the TNF game. I couldnt even trade him to fellow Saints fans. Hopefully he turns it around. It has been a usage issue.

 
matuski said:
FF Ninja said:
I love how "what have you done for me lately?" and situation have such a huge influence on talent evaluation here. Demarco Murray was supposedly the best RB in football last year and he's suddenly chopped liver this year. Spiller is not getting touches and suddenly Dion Lewis is better than him.

Given usage and situation, Dion is currently a better fantasy play, but talent wise, no.
Click to expand...
Has CJ ever beat anyone out for the starting job with all that talent your evaluation has attributed to him?

If I recall even in his decent stretch 2012/13 he only got the play time following a string of injuries to FJax, and lost it again when he came back..
Click to expand...
:tumbleweed:

 
flysack said:
rickyg said:
flysack said:
RoosterScott said:
The fact that somebody gave him $8,000,000 a year to touch the rock once or twice a game is simply mind boggling!
Click to expand...
See, the thing is all the things you guys are saying -

1. The coaching staff misuses him

2. He doesn't get enough touches

3. If he gets the right opportunity, he's gone.

4. So much talent

5. So much potential

Are all the things Bills fans said about him for years too.

He had 3/4ths of a good season, once, years ago.

Maybe it isn't the plethora of coaches he's had, but rather it's something about him, something beyond the gaudy YPC number and mind-boggling speed. Maybe he's just a speed back who benefited from a 10 game stretch once where teams were more focused on Chan Gaily's passing game and Fred Jackson's running instead.

Maybe the Saints realized this after they got him into camp, and said, crap.
Click to expand...
Completely disagree.

There is such a thing as coaches who have talented players and have no clue how to use them. Look at the Dolphins. On the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Horror show. BC of a lack of talent? No. A lack of rational coaching!

Look at the bills. Are the coaches who held back spoiler still there? Why not? BC they sucked. And they could not figure out the formula for putting a winning team on the field. That's why.

Do you think the coaching staff in NO is just wrong about spiller? Look at the entire team. Look at their record. You're assuming they are making smart player personnel decisions. They aren't.

Spiller gets injured a lot, but when he is healthy he can be a difference maker on the field. A game breaker. He should be getting a minimum of 10-15 touches per game. Figure 8 catches and 2-7 carries. Ingram should be the power back. It's doesn't have to be so predictable either since they both can run and catch. NE seems to do pretty well with this strategy using Lewis and Blount and before that Blount and vereen. And before that Ridley and vereen.

Good coaches find ways to involve their most explosive players.

What would be interesting is if they schemes to get both Ingram AND spiller on the field together. Both in the backfield. Or Ingram behind brees with spiller split out wide more often.

I mean come on. Payton was able to use sproles. Now all of the sudden he has no clue how to use spiller...the saints offense is really vanilla and predictable now.
Click to expand...
I wish you were in my fantasy league.
Click to expand...
Do we need this irrelevant response? I thought his points were pretty well stated and I can understand his frustration.

 
At some point this season, and I don't profess to now when, spiller is going to be a factor in the saints passing attack. I just can't believe that with that contract and his abilities they are going to continue to make him such a non factor.

He's still a bench stash just based on potential and especially if you own Ingram as a handcuff.

 
rickyg said:
At some point this season, and I don't profess to now when, spiller is going to be a factor in the saints passing attack. I just can't believe that with that contract and his abilities they are going to continue to make him such a non factor.

He's still a bench stash just based on potential and especially if you own Ingram as a handcuff.
Click to expand...
Ingram owner here. Dropped Spiller this week. At this point Khiry looks as likely as Spiller to benefit if Ingram goes down.

FWIW, a RB needy owner burned a waiver to claim Spiller. Decent lottery ticket I guess.

 
Felt so good to cut bait this week. Not sure wtf is going on over there with his usage but I want no part of it. I'm sure he'll have 1-2 big plays that will end up fools gold for some other poor owner.

 
Thoughts on Spiller's value post K. Robinson injury?

Brees is rolling. Schedule looks tasty. You'd think Spiller's touches would increase and maybe provide more consistency.

Receiving trade offers and trying to decide if he'll be usable on a consistent basis or continue to tease/aggravate.

 
With KhR out, it would be hard to envision CJ not seeing a significant uptick in snaps and value. For the Saints to pay him what they are, you have to imagine the coaching staff sees legit promise. Word is that his wattage may be on the dim side when it comes to absorbing the playbook, but we're entering Week 9 and you have to imagine certain things are starting to snap into place for him (and will theoretically only improve from here).

I'm guessing RB2'ish stats in PPR for the remainder of the season. Definite flex starter. He may not burn that brightly, but with all the RB injuries this season, even a "decent" showing from Spiller is enough to make him a hero to a lot of squads.

 
Captain Fantastic said:
With KhR out, it would be hard to envision CJ not seeing a significant uptick in snaps and value. For the Saints to pay him what they are, you have to imagine the coaching staff sees legit promise. Word is that his wattage may be on the dim side when it comes to absorbing the playbook, but we're entering Week 9 and you have to imagine certain things are starting to snap into place for him (and will theoretically only improve from here).

I'm guessing RB2'ish stats in PPR for the remainder of the season. Definite flex starter. He may not burn that brightly, but with all the RB injuries this season, even a "decent" showing from Spiller is enough to make him a hero to a lot of squads.
Click to expand...
Want to see how much Spiller rises in Dodds top 200 this week.

Unless there is another RB on the roster I'm not thinking about, you'd think Spiller will absorb K. Robinson's touches. We're talking what...5-7 additional rushing attempts and 2-3 receptions? I'd think that Spiller's floor would now be 8-10 rushes, maybe a goal line attempt here and there, and 4-6 targets per game.

For comparison's sake, is Spiller of equal value to say...Ryan Mathews?

 
kyoun1e said:
Captain Fantastic said:
With KhR out, it would be hard to envision CJ not seeing a significant uptick in snaps and value. For the Saints to pay him what they are, you have to imagine the coaching staff sees legit promise. Word is that his wattage may be on the dim side when it comes to absorbing the playbook, but we're entering Week 9 and you have to imagine certain things are starting to snap into place for him (and will theoretically only improve from here).

I'm guessing RB2'ish stats in PPR for the remainder of the season. Definite flex starter. He may not burn that brightly, but with all the RB injuries this season, even a "decent" showing from Spiller is enough to make him a hero to a lot of squads.
Click to expand...
Want to see how much Spiller rises in Dodds top 200 this week.

Unless there is another RB on the roster I'm not thinking about, you'd think Spiller will absorb K. Robinson's touches. We're talking what...5-7 additional rushing attempts and 2-3 receptions? I'd think that Spiller's floor would now be 8-10 rushes, maybe a goal line attempt here and there, and 4-6 targets per game.

For comparison's sake, is Spiller of equal value to say...Ryan Mathews?
Click to expand...
That other RB you aren't thinking about is Ingram- he's the one who took most of the additional touches after Robinson left yesterday.

This obviously helps Spiller, but expecting 7-10 additional touches each week is wildly optimistic IMO.

 
kyoun1e said:
Captain Fantastic said:
With KhR out, it would be hard to envision CJ not seeing a significant uptick in snaps and value. For the Saints to pay him what they are, you have to imagine the coaching staff sees legit promise. Word is that his wattage may be on the dim side when it comes to absorbing the playbook, but we're entering Week 9 and you have to imagine certain things are starting to snap into place for him (and will theoretically only improve from here).

I'm guessing RB2'ish stats in PPR for the remainder of the season. Definite flex starter. He may not burn that brightly, but with all the RB injuries this season, even a "decent" showing from Spiller is enough to make him a hero to a lot of squads.
Click to expand...
Want to see how much Spiller rises in Dodds top 200 this week.

Unless there is another RB on the roster I'm not thinking about, you'd think Spiller will absorb K. Robinson's touches. We're talking what...5-7 additional rushing attempts and 2-3 receptions? I'd think that Spiller's floor would now be 8-10 rushes, maybe a goal line attempt here and there, and 4-6 targets per game.

For comparison's sake, is Spiller of equal value to say...Ryan Mathews?
Click to expand...
Why assume he absorbs KR's touches? KR switched with Ingram because that was their role. I would assume an uptick in touches for Ingram. I would think Spiller gets some but expecting him to plug into the KR role is a little optimistic i think

 
Can't rule out Saints bringing back Tim Hightower (final cut/ or someone else) to fill Khirys role.

I own CJ in a couple of leagues. Not really expecting much. In a game Brees threw for 500, Spiller had 20(?) of them. Wasted signing for amount of $$ they gave him and that Ingram's a terrific pass catcher himself as they're finally finding out after 5 years.

 
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It's fair to think he will definitely absorb some of the KR touches. I remember a reporter blogging about the Saints complex playbook and spiller being slow to grasp it all. He didn't have a preseason after all. Glimmer of hope and worth holding in PPR for me.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Can't rule out Saints bringing back Tim Hightower (final cut/ or someone else) to fill Khirys role.

I own CJ in a couple of leagues. Not really expecting much. In a game Brees threw for 500, Spiller had 20(?) of them. Wasted signing for amount of $$ they gave him and that Ingram's a terrific pass catcher himself as they're finally finding out after 5 years.
Click to expand...
In a game where Brees completed 39 passes for 505 yards, the supposed receiving back (Spiller) managed to catch 2 of them for 15 yards. This will likely go down as NO's highest fantasy output of the year and Spiller was barely involved (6 touches). Even with Khiry gone, I'm still not expecting much. Really, it seems Khiry affected Ingram the most (GL vulture).

 
ryno1980 said:
It's fair to think he will definitely absorb some of the KR touches. I remember a reporter blogging about the Saints complex playbook and spiller being slow to grasp it all. He didn't have a preseason after all. Glimmer of hope and worth holding in PPR for me.
Click to expand...
He's been running wrong routes all year. Brees was in his ear after he broke the wrong way yesterday on one of his rare incompletions.

This is not a new thing for the talented but sub-10 Wonderlic Spiller. Bills fans have been warning FF owners about CJ for years.

He is what he is. Talk amongst yourselves.

:mellow:

 
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