I'll disagree slightly. The further this goes along, the further the research validates the vaccines and their success. Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.It's been years, now, and not much has changed.
I'm not talking about Covid, either.
My god that is sad.In other news people that got COVID pre vax suffer from more brain damage than we thought. The effects of this long term are only just now becoming apparent. And this discounts the people suffering other severe outcomes like me/cfs potentially for life.
My friends daughter who got COVID just month before the vax was available to under 12, has withdrawn from school and is for all intents a vegetable needing life long care. There is nearly no hope. They are going to basically witch doctors now.
So you think the mass consensus are right? So when Trump wins in a landslide, that is right?Sometimes, people are so stinking dense that even in the face of all the evidence, they still believe conspiracy theory hocum. Those kind of gullible people respond well to pie-in-the-sky promises of a lottery win as incentive.In NC, to increase vaxx participation they had a lottery and gave a million dollars to 4 people that got the vaxx. Does this sound right to you on any level?VaxI'll bite. What kool-aid you talking about, exactly? Please elaborate if you care to.You all done drinking the kool-aid?
Out of curiosity, how many folks that continue to post in here do you think have medical training, background or credentials? I know you seem to work in the medical field.....anybody else in here? Or are we just getting regurgitation from Joe Rogan and posts from Facebook?
For the public good, sometimes you throw a mini-lotto; sometimes you bite your tongue responding to someone on the internet.
People in power lied about the truth. It's that simple. We are too dumb to know the truth, right?
When she got it the under 12s weren't approved, but she was going to camp. I feel like 12+ got the green light roughly as school started that year, but too late.My god that is sad.In other news people that got COVID pre vax suffer from more brain damage than we thought. The effects of this long term are only just now becoming apparent. And this discounts the people suffering other severe outcomes like me/cfs potentially for life.
My friends daughter who got COVID just month before the vax was available to under 12, has withdrawn from school and is for all intents a vegetable needing life long care. There is nearly no hope. They are going to basically witch doctors now.
This assumes that people come to conclusions or positions based on facts/logic instead of feelings. And I think we know that, sadly, plenty of people irrationally anchor to feelings-based positions because of confirmation bias paired with wiring.I'll disagree slightly. The further this goes along, the further the research validates the vaccines and their success. Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.It's been years, now, and not much has changed.
I'm not talking about Covid, either.
Feelings dont replace facts.This assumes that people come to conclusions or positions based on facts/logic instead of feelings. And I think we know that, sadly, plenty of people irrationally anchor to feelings-based positions because of confirmation bias paired with wiring.I'll disagree slightly. The further this goes along, the further the research validates the vaccines and their success. Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.It's been years, now, and not much has changed.
I'm not talking about Covid, either.
Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
I'm going to go with no on that one.Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.
The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
He drops in every few months with similar rants. And just as quickly as he materializes, he disappears.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
Don’t really want to rehash all this, but you realize the original vaccines were pretty good in limiting transmission?The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.
* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actuallly made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disaterous in terms of social trust.
Pretty sure academic virologists were aware of viral evolution in 2020. They didn't just discover this.Don’t really want to rehash all this, but you realize the original vaccines were pretty good in limiting transmission?The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.
* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actuallly made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disaterous in terms of social trust.
The virus changed, as did vaccine efficacy. That’s not a failure of the original messaging, unless you expected a public course in virology and vaccinology from the get-go.
I don't know why this is a problem all of a sudden. Relying on others seems to be a much bigger problem and illustrated quite well in this series of events. And I agree 100% with you on those institutions failing us, which is another reason I don't see it as a problem to do your own research via valid channels. It was rather simple to do here in the FFA for example. All one had to do was follow the link studies and the peer reviewed articles posted here ad nauseum....we didn't have to look far/hard for the info.The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.
* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actually made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disastrous in terms of social trust.
I think if we can't discuss vaccine efficacy without it getting "political," then this thread has run its course and should be closed down. The rest of society has collectively decided to memory-hole this entire experience, so maybe we should too. (I don't consider this topic political, but I'm just one poster. If others find this uncomfortable, I don't mind being outvoted.)We should just drop it today. We can acknowledge the commenter and his comments and draw our own conclusions about the root causes of his obdurate position.
I'm not even going to say how much weight I give everything all around. I think we should just drop it before you guys get popped or deleted or something worse. Peace, fellas. Have a good one.
I think if we can't discuss vaccine efficacy without it getting "political," then this thread has run its course and should be closed down. The rest of society has collectively decided to memory-hole this entire experience, so maybe we should too. (I don't consider this topic political, but I'm just one poster. If others find this uncomfortable, I don't mind being outvoted.)We should just drop it today. We can acknowledge the commenter and his comments and draw our own conclusions about the root causes of his obdurate position.
I'm not even going to say how much weight I give everything all around. I think we should just drop it before you guys get popped or deleted or something worse. Peace, fellas. Have a good one.
We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
Agree!! Pre-covid we had work warriors, especially one of the senior partners, who would come in and spread their typhoid all over the place without a care for anyone else in the office. We bitched to him often and he would reply that the works gotta get done and he would shut his door. You'd figure after the pandemic taught us that masking and isolation helps prevent spread that we would stick to that model but I am certain senior jughead will go right back to the old ways. We are stoopid as a society sometimes.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
Wasn't feeling 100% one day, was already in the office, slight cough but not crazy. Asked my manager hey I might be coming down with something ok if I just wfh this afternoon. He says if you are feeling that bad just take a sick day. So I stayed. So stupidAgree!! Pre-covid we had work warriors, especially one of the senior partners, who would come in and spread their typhoid all over the place without a care for anyone else in the office. We bitched to him often and he would reply that the works gotta get done and he would shut his door. You'd figure after the pandemic taught us that masking and isolation helps prevent spread that we would stick to that model but I am certain senior jughead will go right back to the old ways. We are stoopid as a society sometimes.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.
If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.
For me the issue isn't people coming to work feeling fine but testing positive it's people coming to work with symptoms of Something and still not taking precautions. Covid or not, our coughing, sneezing, sniffling selfs had 2 years to relearn behavior and instead we may be headed back to the old ways. Feeling well enough to work but being genuinely sick may be a moment to work from home or take a day. Or at least isolate at work and use the masks we still have around the office, it helps.Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.
If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.
As wrong as you were in the splitting appetizer thread you are completely spot on hereGuys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.
If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.
Nobody's expecting this. A simple of policy of work from home if you are sick but still able to work is fine. For those whose jobs cant be done remotely or those without sick leave, wear a mask if you must be in the office. This would apply to people who are sick but not sick enough that they cant work.
Those without symptoms is different and probably doesn't require a specific policy.
Yeah, I would prefer that people just stay home if they're ill. But as you note, we've never really had that as a norm. Some of us need to accept that we tried that for a couple of years, and most of us preferred the old way.For me the issue isn't people coming to work feeling fine but testing positive it's people coming to work with symptoms of Something and still not taking precautions. Covid or not, our coughing, sneezing, sniffling selfs had 2 years to relearn behavior and instead we may be headed back to the old ways. Feeling well enough to work but being genuinely sick may be a moment to work from home or take a day. Or at least isolate at work and use the masks we still have around the office, it helps.Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.
If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.
Yeah, I would prefer that people just stay home if they're ill. But as you note, we've never really had that as a norm. Some of us need to accept that we tried that for a couple of years, and most of us preferred the old way.For me the issue isn't people coming to work feeling fine but testing positive it's people coming to work with symptoms of Something and still not taking precautions. Covid or not, our coughing, sneezing, sniffling selfs had 2 years to relearn behavior and instead we may be headed back to the old ways. Feeling well enough to work but being genuinely sick may be a moment to work from home or take a day. Or at least isolate at work and use the masks we still have around the office, it helps.Guys, there was never any possibility that people were going to isolate without symptoms indefinitely. We were always going to land right back at the equilibrium of "go back to work when you feel okay." My evidence for this proposition is having lived around other human beings for 51 years, observing their behavior and customs. Normal people are not comfortable sitting at home when they feel well -- it feels like shirking, and the kind of people you select for at the time of employment will refuse to do that.
If you honestly thought it was going to go differently, you need to update your views on how human beings are wired.
We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
There's a difference between completely isolating and using common sense in going to work and infecting the whole office.We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
Unfortunately government polices are never very nuanced. I do find it odd that someone can test positive and come to work that day if they don't feel sick. Are you of the opinion that person should have to stay home and test daily until they don't have covid?There's a difference between completely isolating and using common sense in going to work and infecting the whole office.We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
Unfortunately government polices are never very nuanced. I do find it odd that someone can test positive and come to work that day if they don't feel sick. Are you of the opinion that person should have to stay home and test daily until they don't have covid?There's a difference between completely isolating and using common sense in going to work and infecting the whole office.We've adopted dumber policies before. But with the CDC's current stance being no isolation required unless you have a fever, its basically following the guideline.On the individual level, sure, but for a "federal installation" to adopt a policy that is just stupid really points to the sad state of affairs here.It was relatively easy to see that a portion of us citizens were not going to be willing/able to do what was necessary to keep themselves and others safe. We are sorely lacking in medical knowledge in this country. I learned a **** ton about the immune system during the pandemic, but that was because I chose to learn (refresh my learning from years ago) etc.We've finally come full circle. The federal installation I work on has dropped all Covid isolation protocol. Employees are now allowed to come to work after testing positive for covid-19 if they feel well enough to do so. No mask required.
I read some of the things like this and it's almost as if people want to get sick at this point. Getting sick sucks whether its COVID or whatever. I don't know why we as a society resist preventive measures so much. We didn't learn a damn thing from the pandemic.
I'm conflicted but if we're being honest most people don't even test for covid anymore.
Knowing it exists, and predicting what will happen are two very, very different things.Pretty sure academic virologists were aware of viral evolution in 2020. They didn't just discover this.Don’t really want to rehash all this, but you realize the original vaccines were pretty good in limiting transmission?The problem is that this required doing your own research. The institutions that were supposed to provide reliable information failed to do so in pretty spectacular fashion.We could get into a long back and forth as to what it "points to". I'll simply say that the research on this virus and the study on this virus is/was, for the most part, transparent if one took the time to find it and follow it. If people settled on being lead around by others on it, the bold may be the result, but that's on those who chose to go that route. Maybe in the future, they'll follow the studies and scientists more than talking heads trying to get clicks on web page who's primary goals are getting traffic through their sites and NOT getting out correct information.Each passing day the anti-vaccine talking points get more and more nonsensical and flat out incorrect.
And yet they gain traction. It points to a deep distrust in institutions and informational gatekeeping and dissemination. I don't know what to say other than that. I believe the vaccines were a godsend and I think coming into the thread asking if one has stopped drinking the Kool-Aid is simply inflammatory and looking to instigate something. It's also a mark of hubris that is completely unwarranted and an example of being horribly wrong while being indignantly above it all—one of the worst of that kind I've seen in a while.
For example, we were told that the vaccines would prevent transmission. They obviously don't. Now, I know this is where people want to throw up their hands and talk about reducing the severity of symptoms and herd immunity* and I get all that, but the bottom line is that society is made up of human beings, and some of those human beings are going to tune you out when you consistently tell them stuff that turns out to be untrue. The poster that everybody is mad about is a product of an environment that was created, in part, by our institutions. Maybe instead of blaming him, we should blame them instead.
* There is a strong case to be made for weak vaccines. We all know that the covid vaccines only provide weak protection against infection. So if I get vaccinated and nobody else does, my vaccine isn't going to do me much good. But if everybody gets vaccinated, or if the whole population is either vaccinated or has antibodies from prior infection, our combined "weak" protection becomes pretty robust at the population level. But that's not the argument that was made for vaccination -- the case that was actuallly made was "If you get the vaccine, you won't get covid." I strongly suspect that the people in charge intentionally decided that the truth was too complicated and they were hoping that a white lie would be more effective in motivating the behavior that they wanted. They did that over and over throughout the pandemic, and it was disaterous in terms of social trust.
The virus changed, as did vaccine efficacy. That’s not a failure of the original messaging, unless you expected a public course in virology and vaccinology from the get-go.
Pretty sure that was booked for 2023. We're all just figments of your imagination.So when is the mass extinction event? I forgot when our DNA was supposed to explode or render us impotent.
You didnt ask me, but the first thing they should have done was assume that people had a less than 3rd grade understanding of the immune system and educate everyone starting there. Then utilize the phrase "we dont know yet, but are working on getting the answers" WAY more than they did.So how should public health officials communicated their uncertainty?
Society is more and more distrustful of almost every institution - science, politics, religion, education, law enforcement, journalism/news reporting, you name it.There were plenty of clear failures in communication, whether intentional or not, and they only have themselves to blame for the lack in trust going forward.
Have all institutions simultaneously become untrustworthy, or were they never worth our trust in the first place?
Nevermind - I'll let it go. No reason to rehash the same stuff.
I was first in line when my vaccination window opened up, and I've kept up to date (I think) on vaccination.What’s dumb is that people are angry about the misinformation and taking it out on their own health.
“The government lied! I’m not getting vaccinated!”
“The government lied! I’m never wearing a mask again!”
That is an issue I have with it all. Institution x became untrustworthy...so I am going to put all my trust in these other non-tested institutions x, y, and z eventhough they have always been untrustworthy and untested.Society is more and more distrustful of almost every institution - science, politics, religion, education, law enforcement, journalism/news reporting, you name it.There were plenty of clear failures in communication, whether intentional or not, and they only have themselves to blame for the lack in trust going forward.
Have all institutions simultaneously become untrustworthy, or were they never worth our trust in the first place? Or has something changed about our expectations? What about our access to information?
Multiple factors are clearly in play, imo.