ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
I realize we all have our own preferences, but that format sounds awful (to me).
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (24 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gottabesweet
- Start date
EthnicFury
Footballguy
I am curious how folks react to this in general, as I can't decide if he's an elite qb or a pretty good player in an elite situation. As the guy who got Dak I'm obviously high on him, but as a team built to win now I'm a little scared that I gave up a few years of a true differencemaker for someone who will be good but not great for a long time.
You gave up a proven difference-maker on the downslope of his career for a player who may not help you as much immediately, but has the potential to become elite.
Whether he will or not is unknown, but as long as you have a strong lineup elsewhere, it's a good "trade short term for long term" move for you.
Milkman
Footballguy
Well not sure if this means anything but I love his tape. He's got Cam Newton upside with his running ability too. He has 6 rushing TD's this season. He's got a great OL, elite WR and Good RB. Enjoy starting him for the next decade.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I think it's pretty fair. The jury is still out on Dak in my opinion. Historically these amazing O-lines don't stay amazing for that long even if they're young, Dez is getting older, etc. He looks great so far but we have a long way to go before we see what Dak can do when the focus is on him.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Dak is super overrated. Sophomore slump almost always happens. RG3... It happens more than it doesn't happen with a good young QB.
And deals like this are why he is a legit 1.02 owner.Andrew74 said:
Lacy may or may not ever amount to anything again, but he's a fairly young guy at a scarce position with a fantasy success record that isn't too far in the rearview mirror. I don't see how there are 47 rookies in this draft that are better gambles.
Nice deal for you.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Dak has almost nothing in common with Griffin. He has run for 6 TDs but he's not a running QB racking up rush yards. He's calm in the pocket, plays within the offense, and makes good decisions behind an OL that gives him time. You couldn't say any of those things about Griffin, who was constantly injured while running around, and was never able to wrap his head around the mental aspect of the position.kittenmittens said:
If Dak regresses it won't be for the reasons Griffin did, because Griffin was never as good a passer as Dak already is and Dak has a feel for the position in the pocket that may have let Griffin survive his own playstyle if he'd had it.
Andrew74
Footballguy
To be fair, he just took over the team this season. But he may keep the tradition alive.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No one would give even a third for Lacy? Come on.Andrew74 said:
It's close but I'd rather have next 2 years of Big Ben and in dynasty I don't care a ton about QB age unless I'm committing a huge investment in them like a Rodgers or Luck type. Easy to find a new QB so means more to me to have best one vs younger one.EthnicFury said:
Milkman
Footballguy
I agree with this but I think Dak is that type of QB. Obviously I'm higher than most of you guys on him.....I'm buying across all leagues that I can get him.
EthnicFury
Footballguy
yeah, fair value feels like a third. At the same time, I wouldnt be in a rush to pay it
EthnicFury
Footballguy
I normally don't care a ton about QB age either.Part of why I made the deal, though, was that I could envision Ben not aging too gracefully though, just given the volume of injuries he routinely plays through.He seems more akin to Steve McNair than Tom Brady
msudaisy26
Footballguy
kittenmittens said:
All these quarterbacks were better in their 2nd year of starting Ryan, Carr, Mariotta, Cutler, Bortles, Brady, Palmer, Tannehill, Flacco, Dalton, Rodgers, Romo, and Luck. This is just from recent years.
kutta
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I left everyone out that was debatable. He looks better, but his numbers are close. There were like 5 other guys just like that.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
None of those guys had an amazing rookie year aided by being on the best team in the NFL. Go ahead and buy him, but you will regret it.
Denver724
Footballguy
Just did this deal today. PPR. Devy league with 35 man rosters. I see it as a huge risk/reward on my end, but decided to go for it. I have OBJ and will be getting WR's Corey Davis, Mike Williams, Josh Malone and possibly JuJu from my devy roster this year.
I get
Gurley, Keenan Allen and Ronald Jones II
I gave
Julio Jones, Snead, Jalen Hurd and devy 4.02
I get
Gurley, Keenan Allen and Ronald Jones II
I gave
Julio Jones, Snead, Jalen Hurd and devy 4.02
Last edited by a moderator:
I like Dak and owned him all over the place this year and player I most comp him to is Wilson. I've actually got Big Ben and him on same team and it's FFPC so requires you to cut down to 14 position players and I rarely carry two QB's in that system post-cuts but plan on making exception on this one.
I also can see concerns with Ben not aging as well as some other QB's but I just think if he can get his weapons all back he has another level he can take his production.
But one more thing. The initial trade post said two middling teams or something like that. If I'm not legit top contender I might lean more towards Dak. I faced similar situation in another league this year where I dealt young potential long time stud in Mariotta for Big Ben and I only do that deal because I thought I was legit contender.
In my dynasty leagues I tend to be one of the more youth obsessed owners but the one and only position I'll sacrifice youth is QB.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Team A: Tyreek Hill
Team B: 2017 3rd round pick, 2018 1st round pick
Team B: 2017 3rd round pick, 2018 1st round pick
BearsFan4Life
Footballguy
I agree and that is why I traded Ben for Cam straight up. Ben's home and road splits this year coupled with injuries made me feel like it was time to move on from Ben.
DropKick
Footballguy
You're missing the point. People have all year to manage their teams; make trades, draft players, work the wire, etc. You could respect that and let the season play out; may the best man win. In contrast, you're eliminated and you see that as an opportunity to exploit by trading to someone willing to buy a championship. And you have no concern that you probably impacted the outcome of the season as long as there is "something in it for you"?
Incidentally, I'm not trying to start anything either. I just think its a bad idea to trade at that point in the season and I'm appealing to a sense of fair play.
I do understand what your saying and don't really disagree with it, my one point would be that every team that is going for the championship has the chance to trade for players from eliminated teams so I wouldn't call a trade that's completeled unfair.
I actually did a trade last year in my one dynasty league with friends that doesn't have a trade deadline. I traded deangelo Williams after I got upset in the first round, I literally sent the same trade offer to all 4 teams that were left standing and only one wanted to accept it, he did go ahead and win it that year.
Basically I think it adds to the thinking of dynasty. The price that owner had to pay was a late 2017 second. 3 owners decided they would rather hope their roster could win without DWill and save that pick while one decided they would risk giving up a decent pick in the hopes to improve there chances. I have to think that the owner that took the chance with the trade was pretty happy with the decision
Last edited by a moderator:
Hankmoody
Footballguy
It has nothing to do with fair play it's not like it's only available to one owner. It's a rule of the league that all owners know about and accept when they join. "It is what it is" so to speak. All playoff owners have equal chance to make such trades, and all eliminated teams have opportunities to move aging assets for youth/potential. It's SOP for all of the leagues that I'm in. What it does is reward active owners by giving them a chance to move decaying assets for premium prices or to obtain that one piece that might get you over the hump and it penalizes inactive owners for missing said windows.
I make it a point to grab underpriced veterans early in the season for exactly that reason. A guy like Gore can be had for a 3rd in August but fetches a 2nd and a few FAAB or even a late 1st from a playoff team.
jeaton6
Footballguy
I agree if there is no deadline per the rules this is SOP and you do what you can to take advantage of it. That said, the same thing can happen with a deadline. I just happen to dislike no deadline. It's a major advantage for top heavy teams. At some point you gotta go with what got you there in the playoffs just like in the NFL. Deep teams can absorb injuries top heavy maybe can't and that's the risk you run come playoff time. Either make some moves pre deadline or take the risk if one of your big guys gets banged up.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Gave: John Brown, 3.9
Got: 2.08
PPR league. He offered me a trade of DGB for Brown so that was my gauge for his perception of value. Which I determined to be not very high. Brown is too inconsistent and his health makes me nervous.
Got: 2.08
PPR league. He offered me a trade of DGB for Brown so that was my gauge for his perception of value. Which I determined to be not very high. Brown is too inconsistent and his health makes me nervous.
BearsFan4Life
Footballguy
14 Team - No PPR - Standard Scoring - 6 pts all TDs
Gave: Big Ben
Got: Cam
Gave: Big Ben
Got: Cam
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
That's pretty bad. Cam is 8 years younger and outproduced Ben most seasons...by a lot.
2011 - Cam 3rd/Ben 13th
2012 - Cam 4th/Ben 19th
2013 - Cam 3rd/Ben 12th
2014 - Cam 17th/Ben 5th
2015 - Cam 1st/Ben 20th
2016 - Cam 16th/Ben 18th
Cam has had a couple bad years, but when he's on he destroys Ben in FF.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Ben has had better PPG in 2014 and 2016 and better weapons trending forward. Rivera has also said Cam needs to "evolve" and will be running less. Age hardly matters in 1 QB leagues because it's so easy to find a quality QB. I'd take Ben as well all other things being equal and just figure out the longer term when someone else is dumping an aging QB for peanuts.
Andrew74
Footballguy
0.5 PPR, start 1/2/3/1
I give: Doug Martin
I get: 2018 1st
I just wanted to cash out of Martin and this seemed like a very good price to me. The other team was a playoff team this year (and probably thinks he will be again) but I think his team isn't going to make the playoffs next year. He doesn't have a pick in the first two rounds in 2017.
I give: Doug Martin
I get: 2018 1st
I just wanted to cash out of Martin and this seemed like a very good price to me. The other team was a playoff team this year (and probably thinks he will be again) but I think his team isn't going to make the playoffs next year. He doesn't have a pick in the first two rounds in 2017.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
jeaton6
Footballguy
If they are going to have Cam evolve then they are going to have to actually invest in weapons around him which they have never done. I expect Cam's weapons (RB/WR) over the next year or two to improve at a significantly faster rate than Bens. This evolution should lead to improved passing efficiency/stats. Even if they somehow don't his sub 53% completion % appears to be an outlier. While Cam may run less vs years past it would be hard to envision a dual threat like him not still running. His 350/5 line from this year seems extremely reasonable (maybe he only runs 4.5 times a game vs 5.5 but his ypc is more like 5 vs 4) going forward regardless of the evolutionary process. To me, last year and this year were both outliers. Cam is a huge buy this off-season (just as he was a sell last year given people were valuing him as #1 QB) at anywhere near Big Ben price levels. I see Ben more like the aging peanut collecting QB than the guy that can pull in Cam (a top 5 dyno QB).Hankmoody said:
One More Rep
Footballguy
They traded for Olsen years ago and took Benjamin in round one and Funchess in round two. That seems like investing in weapons to me. Steelers meanwhile have not invested a top two round pick on a WR or TE on their roster or acquired any via trade. What the Panthers will likely invest in is a RB and that won't really help Cam.
As for improving faster and more significantly? The Steelers don't need to make one single acquisition to improve leaps and bounds, they just need to get Martavis back and get Coates and Ladarius healthy.
I'd still rather have Cam in dynasty, but don't agree with this reasoning.
jeaton6
Footballguy
A lot of "ifs" above. Ben is Mr. Consistent. You get what you get from him. He is rarely winning you games or championships. He's not losing them either. Regardless of the weapons he has at his disposal. He's a solid low end QB1. That's not likely to change in year 14 of his career. I didn't say anything about the steelers making acquisitions. They won't. Investing in a 1st round receiver and a 2nd round receiver is nice and all but they need more production at RB which I expect them to address. Completely disagree this doesn't help Cam. J-Stew doesn't open things up for that Offense, ever. Another year removed from the ACL for KB will help and Funchess looked better down the stretch. All that said before the past 2 years they did little to help Cam on that front (they inexplicably blew their wad on J-Stew and DWill) . I could see them getting a legit Vet to shore up that WR corps if what the staff is saying is true and not just coach speak. I expect these young guys also to pick it up this year along with a new young RB (Stewart will be 30 in March, not sure they cut him but they could save almost 5M in cap space this year if they do). Given the amount of room for growth in that pass offense (down 2016, growth of young WRs, potential vet and Rookie adds, etc.) in my opinion the rate of improvement is likely to be significantly higher than that of the Pittsburgh aerial attack.
jeaton6
Footballguy
Like I said I'd rather have Cam.
My point is both teams can add receiving talent via draft of FA but the Steelers can do that AND get back Martavis, healthy Coates and Ladarius. I just think odds are heavily in Steelers favor of getting their weapons improved more than Panters, or if anything I see regressing considering their most consistent weapons is getting older.
I failed to explain this well but only mentioned the Panthers spending high picks on receivers vs Steelers to illustrate that even if Panthers made a bigger commitment than Steeler's to drafting receiving talent it's fair to wonder if they would do as well as Steeler's even if they picked up players later in the draft.
All kind of a moot point in the sense I agree with you on Cam over Ben but for other reasons.
Matt's Eagles
Footballguy
20 team PPR dynasty deal
Team A gets Allen Robinson, pick 3.11
Team B gets Kevin White, Martavis Bryant, Caroo, pick 4.08
Team A gets Allen Robinson, pick 3.11
Team B gets Kevin White, Martavis Bryant, Caroo, pick 4.08
One More Rep
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Ben having better ppg in his Cam's two down seasons is the main selling point? I agree he has better weapons but Benjamin was returning from an ACL injury and Funchess showed some progress as a rookie. I think Carolina may add a WR in free agency as well.Hankmoody said:
While Cam may run less, I don't think his running ability which is a real difference maker (in fantasy and in real football) is just going to go away.
I think the bigger issue however is not just Ben's advanced age (agree that age doesn't mean as much for a QB in dynasty), but the inability to stay healthy that comes with that age. Ben has shown that he will miss a few games a season the last couple of years (which is why you used ppg in 2016) - do you expect him to miss less time at 36+?
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Robinson by a lot. You're betting on Bryant coming back at the same level and staying clean. Would take that bet with WR2 types or elite prospects but not WR1 types.
