****OFFICIAL****Minnesota Vikings offseason thread (1 Viewer)

[FunkyPlutos]

I see A. Benn got traded for little or nothing...wonder if the Vikings tried...

 

[mr roboto]

Don't you think if Cassel proves that he's dynamite in practice the Vikings will notice? I doubt Cassel will concede and fail to compete. He still needs to prepare professionally and be ready if his number is called. But if his number isn't called they don't want him to be a locker room cancer about it.

Yeah, I see your point. My point is you have 2 FA targets, and tell both that to be here, they need to understand there will be no competition. Player A says great, I'll hold clipboards. Player B says forget it, I am willing to hold a clipboard but I'm NFL caliber and want a fair chance to compete. I want player B. We need 53 of those guys. We need to bring in as much talent as possible, and allow jobs to be fought for and won/lost competitively. Moreover, I'd hate to think of the Vikes liking one draftee project more than another on the basis one is too competitive, the other acceptably passive. 4th round players can, and sometimes do, outperform higher picks. Let them. You aren't going to become great in this league handing out free jobs and deterring/avoiding guys who want to compete. Just seems upside down to me, but I digress.

I think you are putting too much stock in the 'Ponder is our starter. We're not bringing someone in to compete' talking points. They will do what's best for the team most likely. If Ponder can't take the next step, and a backup is practicing well, I would think they would make a move. Anytime you bring in a former starter (instead of a developmental pick or guy like Webb) it kind of suggests that they wanted a guy who could effectively start. Look at Denver. Their backup is Ossweiler, a devy guy. They had Henie and let him go, because Os is good enough, and Manning is in no way going to lose his job. Same in NE for years.

 

[BigJim®]

I think you are putting too much stock in the 'Ponder is our starter. We're not bring in someone to compete' talking points.

Agree to disagree. If it was this one situation, then yes I understand those dynamics. But other than Favre being here in 2009-2010 this team has a pattern of bringing in guys not to compete with or pressure hopefuls. For Tarvaris is was Brooks Bollinger, Kelly Holcombe, Gus Frerotte, and for Ponder it was Webb/MBT and now Cassel. Once this team has fixated on their guy, they don't draft for the future or seek legit FA competition. I don't think it is talking points, but rather actual unwillingness to risk competition and be wrong.

 

[mr roboto]

@ AdamSchefter

And so Greg Jennings follows the path of Brett Favre and Ryan Longwell from Green Bay to Minnesota.

 

[Heatman]

@ AdamSchefterAnd so Greg Jennings follows the path of Brett Favre and Ryan Longwell from Green Bay to Minnesota.

ESPN:http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9057818/greg-jennings-agrees-deal-minnesota-vikings-according-source

 

[sho nuff]

Ben Goessling ‏@BenGoesslingPPAw, why not? I'll RT this: @RickBerg74: Vikings trainer @EricSugarATC is now following @GregJennings on #Twiiter. #hmmmmm....

Would love to see Jennings signed...if for no other reason than to have thousands of Packer fans shift into troll-mode. Talking about settling for their sloppy-seconds, comparing Super Bowl rings/trophies, talking about how crappy Metrodome is compared to Lambeau, and about 1,000 other things they always whine about with their cheese when something happens that they don't like (related to the Purple).

Not really whining...just the truth.As for what we like.Wish Jennings well on his own...just not that team.Gonna be fun to see if his sister reacts to Ponder's passing since she did not like Rodgers'

 

[snogger]

I think you are putting too much stock in the 'Ponder is our starter. We're not bring in someone to compete' talking points.

Agree to disagree. If it was this one situation, then yes I understand those dynamics. But other than Favre being here in 2009-2010 this team has a pattern of bringing in guys not to compete with or pressure hopefuls. For Tarvaris is was Brooks Bollinger, Kelly Holcombe, Gus Frerotte, and for Ponder it was Webb/MBT and now Cassel. Once this team has fixated on their guy, they don't draft for the future or seek legit FA competition. I don't think it is talking points, but rather actual unwillingness to risk competition and be wrong.

for some reason the gm and coach think Ponders ego is so timid that if they don't stroke it he'll go into some kind of shell.

 

[snogger]

@ AdamSchefterAnd so Greg Jennings follows the path of Brett Favre and Ryan Longwell from Green Bay to Minnesota.

ESPN:http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9057818/greg-jennings-agrees-deal-minnesota-vikings-according-source

now go after one of the CB's and/or LB's

 

[BigJim®]

@ AdamSchefterAnd so Greg Jennings follows the path of Brett Favre and Ryan Longwell from Green Bay to Minnesota.

This is a great start to get something workable at WR. I pray to god he can stay healthy. Would still love to see them make a run at a cheap/high upside guy like Danario Alexander, and use 1st/3rd in a deep rookie class:JenningsAlexanderRookie 1stJ.WrightSimpsonRookie 3rd With TE Rudolph taking another step forward, not bad compared to last year!

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I really like Tavarres King from Georgia if we can get him in 2nd or 3rd...and Hopkins in the 1st.

 

[Jobber]

Yes!

 

[Biabreakable]

really? Good lord we have bad qb's

Better then Webb.. remember this is only for Backup QB.. They don't want Ponders ego bruised by having any competition.

I don't think he is anyways (unless the sarcasm flew over my head)

Probably more accurate to say Cassell is a guy more likely not to be uncoached to the point of unserviceability by Musgrave, who has no idea how to utilize unique talent.

What unique talent did the Vikings have with Musgrave that he did not use well enough?I would say the most unique talent the Vikings have is Adrian Peterson. He seemed to have gotten plenty of use and almost broke Eric Dickersons record. How does someone as clueless as you seem to be saying Musgrave is accomplish this? Or would Peterson have been able to do more with someone else as OC?

The other unique talent was Harvin who has been very busy and used in motion, as a RB and as a WR. Harvin was on pace to have a year similar or better than Welker with Brady before he was injured. So how is Musgrave not using unique talent again?

Kyle Rudolph scored a ton of TD as a 2nd year TE. He did not get used enough between the 20's but part of that is on Rudolph not being able to get off the line and being double teamed after Harvin was out. Rudolph improved as a blocker but still has a long way to go in that part of his game.

I would like to hear you (or anyone else who dislikes Musgrave)back up why Musgrave is such a terrible coach. I do not see it.

 

[BigJim®]

What unique talent did the Vikings have with Musgrave that he did not use well enough?I would like to hear you (or anyone else who dislikes Musgrave)back up why Musgrave is such a terrible coach. I do not see it.

I didn't say he was a terrible coach, but I think our QBs struggle generally with his system and he has no creativity for a guy like Webb. You had to see how Musgrave used a Ponder gameplan for Webb vs. the Packers in the playoffs, one week before Kaepernick ran all over them for 180 yards. Other than the first drive, it was bad; really bad. If you think Musgrave used Webb right in that game, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on it. The Webb we saw in 2010 is a far cry from the Webb we saw in 2012, both preseason and postseason.

 

[Donnybrook]

I read Peliserro's cap analysis. It pretty clear that Kevin Williams has the biggest target on his back. He is the final yer of his contract and is making 7.5 M. I also heard rumors that he doesn't want to take a pay cut. It has to be tempting for the VIkings to go DT in the first.

BTW, Schefter is tweeting that Travon Austin will be gone by 23. I am not sure I want the Vikings to take him even if he is there. I am not impressed with any of the receivers with 1st round grades/hype beside Patterson.

 

[Biabreakable]

I read Peliserro's cap analysis. It pretty clear that Kevin Williams has the biggest target on his back. He is the final yer of his contract and is making 7.5 M. I also heard rumors that he doesn't want to take a pay cut. It has to be tempting for the VIkings to go DT in the first. BTW, Schefter is tweeting that Travon Austin will be gone by 23. I am not sure I want the Vikings to take him even if he is there. I am not impressed with any of the receivers with 1st round grades/hype beside Patterson.

Where have you heard rumors that KW does not want to take a pay cut? I have heard multiple times that he is willing to rework the deal and that he wants to stay with the Vikings. The Vikings could save about 2 million by cutting Guion who did not play as well as KW or any of the other defensive linemen. I expect KW to have a new deal that reduces that 7.5 by about 50% for 2013. Now I kind of thought the Vikings would do this earlier than now and primarily so that they could afford to keep Winfield, but that is not how it has transpired.

 

[Biabreakable]

What unique talent did the Vikings have with Musgrave that he did not use well enough?I would like to hear you (or anyone else who dislikes Musgrave)back up why Musgrave is such a terrible coach. I do not see it.

I didn't say he was a terrible coach, but I think our QBs struggle generally with his system and he has no creativity for a guy like Webb. You had to see how Musgrave used a Ponder gameplan for Webb vs. the Packers in the playoffs, one week before Kaepernick ran all over them for 180 yards. Other than the first drive, it was bad; really bad. If you think Musgrave used Webb right in that game, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on it. The Webb we saw in 2010 is a far cry from the Webb we saw in 2012, both preseason and postseason.

Webb played terrible in that game but is it really fair to place much of the blame for that on Musgrave? Did Musgrave make Webb unable to hit the broad side of a barn? The Vikings game plan was for Ponder as they were hoping he would be healthy enough to play.I agree that they maybe could have used more read option to help Webb win with his legs, but the Packers were spying him and I am not sure that would have been very effective either.You are not alone in the criticism's of Musgrave. I have heard many people say they think he is uncreative.. whatever that means.. what I saw him doing formation wise seemed pretty creative to me.

 

[Biabreakable]

Thoughts on Jarius Wright - with or without Jennings or any other fill-in that the Vikes bring in?http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14918/jarius-wrightI thought he looked great in his chances last year, but then again I did not watch every Vikes game.Could he likely have a breakout season? Or not so likely?

I do think they will use Wright much like they were using Harvin. He could potentially get 10-20 rushing attempts in addition to some targets. Wright did not play much last season even after Harvin was injured as the Vikings were running a lot of 2FB/TE sometimes with no WR or only one WR on the field. Jennings is going to be the man in those formations and Jennings will work out of the slot as well so that will limit Wrights opportunity.I do think Wright could have some decent games at times but the numbers will likely be below WR3 or WR3 at best in FF. Jennings will be a WR2 maybe close to a WR1 some weeks. With the TE's getting a lot of looks and likely either a rookie WR, Childs if he is healthy or Simpson getting a few as well. I liked enough of what I saw from Wright to consider him the 2nd best WR on the team after Jennings. But given the way the Vikings run their offense I do not see a lot of targets for the 2nd WR of the Vikings. Likely less than 100 targets for the year unless the offense really opens things up.

 

[Heatman]

Thoughts on Jarius Wright - with or without Jennings or any other fill-in that the Vikes bring in?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14918/jarius-wright

I thought he looked great in his chances last year, but then again I did not watch every Vikes game.

Could he likely have a breakout season? Or not so likely?

I do think they will use Wright much like they were using Harvin. He could potentially get 10-20 rushing attempts in addition to some targets. Wright did not play much last season even after Harvin was injured as the Vikings were running a lot of 2FB/TE sometimes with no WR or only one WR on the field. Jennings is going to be the man in those formations and Jennings will work out of the slot as well so that will limit Wrights opportunity.I do think Wright could have some decent games at times but the numbers will likely be below WR3 or WR3 at best in FF. Jennings will be a WR2 maybe close to a WR1 some weeks. With the TE's getting a lot of looks and likely either a rookie WR, Childs if he is healthy or Simpson getting a few as well. I liked enough of what I saw from Wright to consider him the 2nd best WR on the team after Jennings. But given the way the Vikings run their offense I do not see a lot of targets for the 2nd WR of the Vikings. Likely less than 100 targets for the year unless the offense really opens things up.

I think this will be Rudolph not Wright. I also think the team will have a more balanced offense next year.

 

[Biabreakable]

Thoughts on Jarius Wright - with or without Jennings or any other fill-in that the Vikes bring in?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14918/jarius-wright

I thought he looked great in his chances last year, but then again I did not watch every Vikes game.

Could he likely have a breakout season? Or not so likely?

I do think they will use Wright much like they were using Harvin. He could potentially get 10-20 rushing attempts in addition to some targets. Wright did not play much last season even after Harvin was injured as the Vikings were running a lot of 2FB/TE sometimes with no WR or only one WR on the field. Jennings is going to be the man in those formations and Jennings will work out of the slot as well so that will limit Wrights opportunity.I do think Wright could have some decent games at times but the numbers will likely be below WR3 or WR3 at best in FF. Jennings will be a WR2 maybe close to a WR1 some weeks. With the TE's getting a lot of looks and likely either a rookie WR, Childs if he is healthy or Simpson getting a few as well. I liked enough of what I saw from Wright to consider him the 2nd best WR on the team after Jennings. But given the way the Vikings run their offense I do not see a lot of targets for the 2nd WR of the Vikings. Likely less than 100 targets for the year unless the offense really opens things up.

I think this will be Rudolph not Wright. I also think the team will have a more balanced offense next year.

I agree that Rudolph is 2nd in targets as he was last season but I see Wright as the the 2nd WR, which means #3 in targets.This would change if the Vikings draft Tavon Austin who would then be competing for that role. I thought Wright did pretty well when he got the opportunity however and that may be enough that the Vikings pass on him.

I see mock drafts with the Vikings taking 2 WR in the 1st 2 rounds and I do not think that is going to happen. I just do not see the Vikings wanting to run 3WR sets much at all. When they do Rudolph will likely be one of those 3. They do not need more than one rookie WR imo.

 

[RustyFA4]

At this point what do you guys see us drafting in the first 3 rounds? There are obvious holes at WR,MLB, and a future DT is needed.

1-23. I think we go with the top rated guy we feel the Colts are more likely to take. MLB Alec Ogletree

1-25 the top rated WR on our board. Allen or Hopkins most likely

2 DT is deep this year. Perhaps trade up to take the highest rated or take who falls. There may still be a guy we have rated as a 1st rounder. DT or BPA

3 WR

4-5 OG

4 LB depth

 

[Funkley]

Ogletree to the Vikes is so obvious at this point that some team who wants him will trade up to get him.

 

[Biabreakable]

Looking at recent nfl.com mock drafts Ogletree is not being mentioned by any of those mocks as a 1st round pick. Not sure about the other mocks recently or how it will actually pan out but right now it seems possible that he could last to the Vikings. Those mocks have Teo and Minter being drafted at the end of the 1st round as the top LB off the board.

Brown is another option that could be there when the Vikings pick but he is considered more of an outside guy. This would have worked a bit better with Brinkley instead of Henderson. Brown might be able to play MLB but he is a bit on the small side for that. Either would take the nickle LB spot which is needed for the defense to improve. Henderson is a liability in coverage.

Looking at a few more mocks I do see Ogletree being slotted to the Bengals at 21 by some.

 

[datonn]

Ogletree to the Vikes is so obvious at this point that some team who wants him will trade up to get him.

Or Arthur Brown...who a lot of folks have mocked to the Vikings at 1.25.

 

[BigJim®]

What unique talent did the Vikings have with Musgrave that he did not use well enough?I would like to hear you (or anyone else who dislikes Musgrave)back up why Musgrave is such a terrible coach. I do not see it.

I didn't say he was a terrible coach, but I think our QBs struggle generally with his system and he has no creativity for a guy like Webb. You had to see how Musgrave used a Ponder gameplan for Webb vs. the Packers in the playoffs, one week before Kaepernick ran all over them for 180 yards. Other than the first drive, it was bad; really bad. If you think Musgrave used Webb right in that game, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on it. The Webb we saw in 2010 is a far cry from the Webb we saw in 2012, both preseason and postseason.

Webb played terrible in that game but is it really fair to place much of the blame for that on Musgrave? Did Musgrave make Webb unable to hit the broad side of a barn? The Vikings game plan was for Ponder as they were hoping he would be healthy enough to play.I agree that they maybe could have used more read option to help Webb win with his legs, but the Packers were spying him and I am not sure that would have been very effective either.You are not alone in the criticism's of Musgrave. I have heard many people say they think he is uncreative.. whatever that means.. what I saw him doing formation wise seemed pretty creative to me.

My post you responded to initially was acknowledging that Cassel may be a better fit for Musgrave, because he has not coached Webb to exploit his capabilities. Webb has regressed over the past two years, clearly. I can't see how you'd disagree with that. Webb probably should have been cut last preseason the way he played. I agree that they had game planned hoping Ponder would play. Knowing what we learned about Ponder's condition that week, that was obviously dumb. What we got from that gameplan using Webb is about what I'd expect taking any mobile QB and forcing him be a pocket passer.

 

[Faust]

Leslie Frazier: Vikings want Antoine Winfield back

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Ogletree to the Vikes is so obvious at this point that some team who wants him will trade up to get him.

Or Arthur Brown...who a lot of folks have mocked to the Vikings at 1.25.

From what I've heard, Ogletree isn't the sharpest knife on the tree. I'm not sure he's who the Vikes would look to to man the middle. And they already have Henderson and Greenway on the outsides.

 

[tietzjd]

Leslie Frazier: Vikings want Antoine Winfield back

We all do! Just not at 7.5 M a year.

Ogletree... I think at 25 would be good pick (Greenway would be calling the plays), but ILB in 2nd round works too.

I still like Vikings package their 4th to move up in 2nd round to have 3 picks in top 40 or so... DT,WR,ILB would be 3 picks I like to see. This would still give them there 3rd and DET 4th for CB/S/OG any other needs.

 

[Biabreakable]

What unique talent did the Vikings have with Musgrave that he did not use well enough?I would like to hear you (or anyone else who dislikes Musgrave)back up why Musgrave is such a terrible coach. I do not see it.

I didn't say he was a terrible coach, but I think our QBs struggle generally with his system and he has no creativity for a guy like Webb. You had to see how Musgrave used a Ponder gameplan for Webb vs. the Packers in the playoffs, one week before Kaepernick ran all over them for 180 yards. Other than the first drive, it was bad; really bad. If you think Musgrave used Webb right in that game, we're probably not going to see eye to eye on it. The Webb we saw in 2010 is a far cry from the Webb we saw in 2012, both preseason and postseason.

Webb played terrible in that game but is it really fair to place much of the blame for that on Musgrave? Did Musgrave make Webb unable to hit the broad side of a barn? The Vikings game plan was for Ponder as they were hoping he would be healthy enough to play.I agree that they maybe could have used more read option to help Webb win with his legs, but the Packers were spying him and I am not sure that would have been very effective either.You are not alone in the criticism's of Musgrave. I have heard many people say they think he is uncreative.. whatever that means.. what I saw him doing formation wise seemed pretty creative to me.

My post you responded to initially was acknowledging that Cassel may be a better fit for Musgrave, because he has not coached Webb to exploit his capabilities. Webb has regressed over the past two years, clearly. I can't see how you'd disagree with that. Webb probably should have been cut last preseason the way he played. I agree that they had game planned hoping Ponder would play. Knowing what we learned about Ponder's condition that week, that was obviously dumb. What we got from that gameplan using Webb is about what I'd expect taking any mobile QB and forcing him be a pocket passer.

No I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB than either Cassell or Webb. I am not sure why the Vikings preferred Cassell. Perhaps Bevel did a better job with Webb than Musgrave has but again I think that is more on Webb not being able to execute than Musgraves coaching causing him to regress.I just watched the Houston game again last night. Ponder played very well in this game where AD was clearly hurting and the Texan defense doing a good job of stopping him. Jarius Wright had a nice run and 3 catches in this game. The 3rd time Ponder flipped the ball out to Wright from motion out of the backfield he got blown up right when the ball arrived and then the Vikings went away from this. Despite that Wright executed very well on the 2 prior to this. He is not Harvin but he did a very good job in this role and I think the Vikings will use him this way more in 2013.In this game it was noted by the announcers how small the play chart was that Musgrave was using compared to the one Kubiak was using. Perhaps this is part of peoples criticism of Musgrave. I do think the offense was somewhat simplified to help Ponder with his reads. That might be opened up more this season compared to last. We will have to wait and see on that. I think the game planning was also limited by the WR the Vikings had and what they can do. Against the Texans I noted the Vikings ran a lot of 2TE/FB with one WR. Sometimes the WR would motion to the backfield (Wright). The way they had AD lining up almost looks like the pistol to me. Ponder does make some key 1st downs with his legs in this game and the Vikings did open things up with 3 and 4 WR later in the 2nd quarter. More than I had seen them do in the previous 2 games. Ponder did pretty well from the shotgun.

 

[The Kuhn]

really? Good lord we have bad qb's

Better then Webb.. remember this is only for Backup QB.. They don't want Ponders ego bruised by having any competition.

I don't think he is anyways (unless the sarcasm flew over my head)

Probably more accurate to say Cassell is a guy more likely not to be uncoached to the point of unserviceability by Musgrave, who has no idea how to utilize unique talent.

What unique talent did the Vikings have with Musgrave that he did not use well enough?I would say the most unique talent the Vikings have is Adrian Peterson. He seemed to have gotten plenty of use and almost broke Eric Dickersons record. How does someone as clueless as you seem to be saying Musgrave is accomplish this? Or would Peterson have been able to do more with someone else as OC?

The other unique talent was Harvin who has been very busy and used in motion, as a RB and as a WR. Harvin was on pace to have a year similar or better than Welker with Brady before he was injured. So how is Musgrave not using unique talent again?

Kyle Rudolph scored a ton of TD as a 2nd year TE. He did not get used enough between the 20's but part of that is on Rudolph not being able to get off the line and being double teamed after Harvin was out. Rudolph improved as a blocker but still has a long way to go in that part of his game.

I would like to hear you (or anyone else who dislikes Musgrave)back up why Musgrave is such a terrible coach. I do not see it.

I'll bite...why take Peterson out in goal line packages? 9 times out of 10, you line Harvin up in the backfield, defense is going to be looking for that play. It wasn't fooling anybody. The stalls in the red zone I put squarely on Musgrave.Why wait so long to get Wright involved- even after Harvin went out? When Simpson wasn't stepping up into the role they wanted him for, Wright should have been getting more work. He was good in spurts, but he wasn't activated until week 10. I don't feel like he has a defined role yet, and that's a big problem when you mix the WR corps up again.

Before Peterson started tearing it up in per game yardage totals, the offense scheme was just pathetic- 95% of Ponder's passes for the 1st half of the season had to be- at most- 5 yd out hooks and slants. They would stretch the field on ONE play per game. This was painfully obvious in the loss to IND. How do you expect your QB to develop if you don't vary the game plan?

 

[Azhais]

No I think Fitzpatrick is a better QB than either Cassell or Webb. I am not sure why the Vikings preferred Cassell. Perhaps Bevel did a better job with Webb than Musgrave has but again I think that is more on Webb not being able to execute than Musgraves coaching causing him to regress.

I still firmly believe that the front office was looking for someone that a) had some experience and b) would in no way, shape, or form cause a quarterback controversy. Nobody wants Cassel to start ever, and he won't pressure Ponder (into getting better). While Fitzpatrick hasn't been good, he's at least started for a few years. When Ponder inevitably comes out without improving again, people might start thinking Fitz is a better option, and they don't want to have that hanging over Ponder.I'm not a Ponder fan at all. I think what he's shown over 2 seasons is that he was maxed out in college and he's simply unable to elevate his game to the NFL level.

Before Peterson started tearing it up in per game yardage totals, the offense scheme was just pathetic- 95% of Ponder's passes for the 1st half of the season had to be- at most- 5 yd out hooks and slants. They would stretch the field on ONE play per game. This was painfully obvious in the loss to IND. How do you expect your QB to develop if you don't vary the game plan?

This was also why Ponder's numbers "improved". They changed the offense to be nothing but checkdowns, hooks, and bubble screens so he didn't have to throw the ball very far. His accuracy numbers went up because he was being asked to throw the ball 18 feet. As soon as they "stretched the field" he was exposed and went 5/32 on passes 20+ yards.

 

[The Kuhn]

Let's not forget the game vs. GB where Ponder barely made one completion to a WR and only 4 more the entire game. How does an OC not make SOME adjustment that corrects a 30+ min span with no completions? BAL canned theirs and Flacco didn't have a game that bad this year.

Either Musgrave is bad for not being able to mold Ponder into a starting caliber QB, or Ponder is truly that bad and doesn't deserve an uncontested starter label going into next year. Musgrave is accountable- to some extent- either way.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I continue to say Musgrave was a bad hire and should be fired.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

I continue to say Musgrave was a bad hire and should be fired.

Maybe, but someone smart said something about chicken salad and chicken poop...with the WR corps he had to work with, Musgrave didn't do all that bad, imho.

 

[Azhais]

I continue to say Musgrave was a bad hire and should be fired.

Better watch out; With talk like that they'll trade you to Seattle.

 

[Biabreakable]

I continue to say Musgrave was a bad hire and should be fired.

Ok. Why?

 

[Biabreakable]

I'll bite...why take Peterson out in goal line packages? 9 times out of 10, you line Harvin up in the backfield, defense is going to be looking for that play. It wasn't fooling anybody. The stalls in the red zone I put squarely on Musgrave.

The Vikings did not take Peterson out of the lineup in goal line situations 90% of the time and Harvin did not take his place that much either. The Vikings had 31 passing attempts from 10 yards or less compared to 36 rushing attempts. The Vikings scored 14 TD passing 10TD rushing from that distance as well. Harvin had 1 of those 10.Furthermore no player except for Michael Turner has had more goal line attempts than Adrian Peterson since 2009. http://football.razzball.com/goal-line-running-back-stats

NAME Att TD Att/TDMichael Turner 64 25 0.39Adrian Peterson 59 29 0.49Rashard Mendenhall 51 23 0.45Maurice Jones-Drew 48 14 0.29Arian Foster 41 19 0.46Marion Barber 39 13 0.33Cedric Benson 39 12 0.31Chris Johnson 37 13 0.35Mike Tolbert 36 15 0.42Michael Bush 36 15 0.42Frank Gore 36 12 0.33Brandon Jacobs 36 12 0.33BenJarvus Green-Ellis 35 18 0.51Ray Rice 35 12 0.34Matt Forte 33 3 0.09LeSean McCoy 32 13 0.41Marshawn Lynch 30 13 0.43Jonathan Stewart 30 8 0.27Peyton Hillis 28 9 0.32Steven Jackson 28 8 0.29Willis McGahee 27 11 0.41Knowshon Moreno 26 10 0.38Chris Wells 25 13 0.52Ahmad Bradshaw 24 15 0.63Ronnie Brown 24 10 0.42Joseph Addai 22 8 0.36Tashard Choice 21 5 0.24John Kuhn 20 8 0.40Tim Hightower 18 10 0.56Fred Jackson 18 8 0.44Pierre Thomas 18 6 0.33Jason Snelling 17 4 0.24Ryan Grant 15 8 0.53Justin Forsett 15 4 0.27Donald Brown 15 4 0.27Kevin Smith 13 7 0.54Shonn Greene 13 4 0.31DeAngelo Williams 13 3 0.23Jamaal Charles 12 7 0.58Darren Sproles 12 2 0.17LeGarrette Blount 11 4 0.36Felix Jones 11 2 0.18Maurice Morris 10 6 0.60Derrick Ward 10 4 0.40Ryan Mathews 10 4 0.40

Why wait so long to get Wright involved- even after Harvin went out? When Simpson wasn't stepping up into the role they wanted him for, Wright should have been getting more work. He was good in spurts, but he wasn't activated until week 10. I don't feel like he has a defined role yet, and that's a big problem when you mix the WR corps up again.

I think that is a fair question. It did take some time for the Vikings to start working Wright into Harvins former role and they never let him run away with that. I do not put that all on the coaching staff however. We do not know how Wright was looking in practice prior to him being activated. Even after he was active he was used sparingly as the Vikings were using a lot of the big sets with usually one of the WR on the field over Wright until late in the season.

Before Peterson started tearing it up in per game yardage totals, the offense scheme was just pathetic- 95% of Ponder's passes for the 1st half of the season had to be- at most- 5 yd out hooks and slants. They would stretch the field on ONE play per game. This was painfully obvious in the loss to IND. How do you expect your QB to develop if you don't vary the game plan?

I agree that the passing game was extremely conservative and that cannot continue for the simple fact that it does not force the defense to defend the full field. At the same time the success rate of deep passing attempts was very poor. Part of that is on Ponder, part of that is on the WR and part of that is because of the coaches game plan.

 

[BigJim®]

Furthermore no player except for Michael Turner has had more goal line attempts than Adrian Peterson since 2009. http://football.razzball.com/goal-line-running-back-stats

Why would you use stats dating from 2009? Let's see the red-zone splits from 2009-2010 and compare to 2011 and 2012 (which seemed worse) under Musgrave. Also, let's see AP vs. all other RBs/QBs if you are going to generalize rushing attempts. I don't think The Kuhn is alone in thinking AP was not involved enough in the redzone. Perhaps you are right, but the way you presented the facts seems ambiguous.

 

[Biabreakable]

Furthermore no player except for Michael Turner has had more goal line attempts than Adrian Peterson since 2009. http://football.razzball.com/goal-line-running-back-stats

Why would you use stats dating from 2009? Let's see the red-zone splits from 2009-2010 and compare to 2011 and 2012 (which seemed worse) under Musgrave. Also, let's see AP vs. all other RBs/QBs if you are going to generalize rushing attempts. I don't think The Kuhn is alone in thinking AP was not involved enough in the redzone. Perhaps you are right, but the way you presented the facts seems ambiguous.

I dont have goal line data for AD specifically for 2012 available right now or I would have added it. I did list the pass attempts and rushing attempts from nfl.com you can count up how many AD got of those 36 rushing attempts from 10 yards or less if you want. I know from what I saw AD was getting most of them. It is not the same thing as what I linked which is rushing attempts from 5 yards or less, but that does not have the 2012 stats. It covers 2009-2011 and thought it was interesting when searching GL stats so I added that information. Would be nice to see that updated for 2012.I felt that the Vikings resorted to a play action pass in the red zone too often last season myself but then when I look at the actual numbers I realize it was 31 PA to 36 RA and 14TD passing compared to 10TD rushing. Remember most of those TD passes went to Rudolph and I have no problem with the Vikings calling that play over letting Peterson try to run over the other team again. I actually thought the pass attempts in that situation were higher compared to the runs until I actually looked at it.

 

[datonn]

Greg Jennings: Brett Favre helped with Vikings deal Skol.

 

[BigJim®]

Furthermore no player except for Michael Turner has had more goal line attempts than Adrian Peterson since 2009. http://football.razzball.com/goal-line-running-back-stats

Why would you use stats dating from 2009? Let's see the red-zone splits from 2009-2010 and compare to 2011 and 2012 (which seemed worse) under Musgrave. Also, let's see AP vs. all other RBs/QBs if you are going to generalize rushing attempts. I don't think The Kuhn is alone in thinking AP was not involved enough in the redzone. Perhaps you are right, but the way you presented the facts seems ambiguous.

I dont have goal line data for AD specifically for 2012 available right now or I would have added it. I did list the pass attempts and rushing attempts from nfl.com you can count up how many AD got of those 36 rushing attempts from 10 yards or less if you want. I know from what I saw AD was getting most of them. It is not the same thing as what I linked which is rushing attempts from 5 yards or less, but that does not have the 2012 stats. It covers 2009-2011 and thought it was interesting when searching GL stats so I added that information. Would be nice to see that updated for 2012.I felt that the Vikings resorted to a play action pass in the red zone too often last season myself but then when I look at the actual numbers I realize it was 31 PA to 36 RA and 14TD passing compared to 10TD rushing. Remember most of those TD passes went to Rudolph and I have no problem with the Vikings calling that play over letting Peterson try to run over the other team again. I actually thought the pass attempts in that situation were higher compared to the runs until I actually looked at it.

All I know is I complained regularly this season that AP was not in there, or not used, as soon as the Vikes got into the red-zone. Whatever it was, it wasn't enough.

 

[Biabreakable]

Furthermore no player except for Michael Turner has had more goal line attempts than Adrian Peterson since 2009. http://football.razzball.com/goal-line-running-back-stats

Why would you use stats dating from 2009? Let's see the red-zone splits from 2009-2010 and compare to 2011 and 2012 (which seemed worse) under Musgrave. Also, let's see AP vs. all other RBs/QBs if you are going to generalize rushing attempts. I don't think The Kuhn is alone in thinking AP was not involved enough in the redzone. Perhaps you are right, but the way you presented the facts seems ambiguous.

I dont have goal line data for AD specifically for 2012 available right now or I would have added it. I did list the pass attempts and rushing attempts from nfl.com you can count up how many AD got of those 36 rushing attempts from 10 yards or less if you want. I know from what I saw AD was getting most of them. It is not the same thing as what I linked which is rushing attempts from 5 yards or less, but that does not have the 2012 stats. It covers 2009-2011 and thought it was interesting when searching GL stats so I added that information. Would be nice to see that updated for 2012.I felt that the Vikings resorted to a play action pass in the red zone too often last season myself but then when I look at the actual numbers I realize it was 31 PA to 36 RA and 14TD passing compared to 10TD rushing. Remember most of those TD passes went to Rudolph and I have no problem with the Vikings calling that play over letting Peterson try to run over the other team again. I actually thought the pass attempts in that situation were higher compared to the runs until I actually looked at it.

All I know is I complained regularly this season that AP was not in there, or not used, as soon as the Vikes got into the red-zone. Whatever it was, it wasn't enough.

Perception is not always reality however. I am curious now so perhaps I will look into it deeper but I am guessing that Peterson got 26-30 of those 36 rushing attempts inside the 10 yard line but maybe I am wrong. If that is enough or not? I am not sure. What percentage should it be?Another thing to consider is that Peterson was playing through a hernia late in the season also. The main game that I saw this come into play was against Houston. He was clearly wincing in pain and that is when they spelled him with Gerhardt. There may be times where they are just giving him a breather particularly if he just broke off a long run to get them in scoring range. All I am trying to say is that there may be reasons we are not always aware of for why certain packages and substitutions are used. If AD takes himself out for a breather you guys will still blame Musgrave.

I think AD did quite enough last season recovering from his ACL.

 

[Biabreakable]

Greg Jennings: Brett Favre helped with Vikings deal Skol.

Skol bro! I am just trying to be quiet about how happy I am that we signed Greg Jennings. I think I am still waiting for someone to wake me.Following the trail of this-

New Viking Greg Jennings is in the process of making the move across the Mississippi River from Wisconsin to Minnesota. After not getting the kind of offer he was seeking from Green Bay, Jennings becomes the latest star Packers player to make the trip west to Minnesota – following in the footsteps of Darren Sharper, Ryan Longwell and Brett Favre.

Monday morning in an interview with Vikings play-by-play man Paul Allen on KFAN radio, Jennings said he got clarity on the atmosphere with the Vikings from Favre. Jennings played two seasons with Favre in Green Bay before the quarterback was traded to the New York Jets in 2008. In 2009, the Jets released Favre and the Vikings signed him to a two-year deal and he helped lead the Vikings to the NFC Championship game in his first season in purple.

As usual, the Old Gunslinger didn’t hold back on his assessment of Minnesota. He and Jennings were actually speaking to one another when the meetings with the Vikings brass began.

“Literally, as I got off the plane and (offensive coordinator Bill) Musgrave walked up to me, I’m on the phone with Brett,” Jennings said. “I spoke with Brett two or three times throughout this process. He shot me straight. I knew if there was one person that would shoot straight and tell me exactly what I wanted to hear and things I possibly didn’t want to hear, it would be Brett. He did that for me.”

While Jennings comes from a team that has QB Aaron Rodgers as the face of its franchise, he knows where the bread is buttered in Minnesota. Adrian Peterson is the centerpiece of the Vikings offense, but Jennings believes that can have a ripple effect for the passing offense as well. Because of the attention he receives, Peterson opens things up for everyone else in the offense and he’s looking forward to be playing alongside Peterson instead of against him.

Having played with arguably the best quarterbacks in the league with both Favre and Rodgers, he sees some similarities in the point in his career that Christian Ponder is to where Rodgers was after Favre was shipped off to the Jets. He said the Vikings did an impressive selling job with their highlight film of Ponder, but it served its purpose. Jennings came away from the film study impressed with what he saw.

“I was able to see him make all throws,” Jennings said. “He has a very strong arm. He can move within the pocket. If there’s one thing I would say, he probably, as every young quarterback, can work on accuracy outside the pocket. But that will come. To his credit, he had every right to be frustrated with the pieces that were around him – no disrespect with Percy (Harvin) going down and him having a young group of guys around him. He had every right to be a little frustrated, but he played well with what he had and he was able to have success.”

Jennings came away from his first discussions with Ponder with the feeling that the young QB is very confident and won’t be looking over his shoulder. He made strides from his rookie season to his second year and Jennings wants to be part of his continued ascent in the NFL.

“A little competition pushes you to acceleration really fast,” Jennings said. “Bringing Matt Cassel in, Christian is going to be confident, which he should be. He should be confident. He’s a really good quarterback. He’s young. He’s maturing. He’s going to get better with experience. We all know that. It’s evident with the success he’s had thus far.”

Jennings said his ultimate decision had more to do with the convincing job that general manager Rick Spielman and head coach Leslie Frazier did selling him on the Vikings organization.

“Mr. Spielman, Coach Frazier and the Wilf family, they were more in tune to me playing in this color and with this organization than Green Bay was,” Jennings said. “The decision was made and I’m excited about it and, even more so than me being excited about it, my family is excited about it. That always makes it easy.”

Asked what impressed him most about the Vikings and convinced him to make the jump from the team he won a Super Bowl with, Jennings said the marked improvement the Vikings made with a young group of players was a motivating factor. Just as the Packers won the Super Bowl with a young QB coming off a double-digit loss season, Jennings was impressed with the strides the Vikings made last season with a young team – going from 3-13 to 10-6 and a playoff berth. Jennings is convinced the best is yet to come for the Vikings.

“Just what you guys were able to do last year with the pieces that you had, obviously the interest was there because of that,” Jennings said. “The youth and the ability to grow – when you have a window of opportunity, you have to take advantage of it. I definitely feel like the window is opening for this ball club and I’m excited to be a part of it.”

The New England Patriots made a late run to try land him, but Jennings had already committed to the visit with the Vikings and wasn’t second-guessing himself in the decision-making process once he got to Winter Park. He was looking at the best fit for him and his family. Frazier, Spielman, Musgrave and wide receivers coach George Stewart did a good selling job, what got to Winter Park. He was looking at the best fit for him and his family. Frazier, Spielman, Musgrave and wide receivers coach George Stewart did a good selling job, what Jennings described as “a love affair” from the time he landed in Minneapolis

http://min.scout.com/2/1275736.htmlIts VU so the fluffiest of the fluff but the quotes from Jennings about Ponder are very reassuring.

 

[BigJim®]

Jennings came away from his first discussions with Ponder with the feeling that the young QB is very confident and won’t be looking over his shoulder.

Yeah, I suppose not.

 

[Azhais]

Jennings came away from his first discussions with Ponder with the feeling that the young QB is very confident and won’t be looking over his shoulder.

Yeah, I suppose not.

Hey, Cassel is the best QB on the roster now

 

[Biabreakable]

Jennings came away from his first discussions with Ponder with the feeling that the young QB is very confident and won’t be looking over his shoulder.

Yeah, I suppose not.

If you find that so funny why did you cut off this part? The rest of that paragraph?

He made strides from his rookie season to his second year and Jennings wants to be part of his continued ascent in the NFL.

I mean isn't that even more laughable?I some times I think Vikings fans give so little credit to the team for things they do well and expect so much that even what Peterson did last season isn't enough. It almost seems like they want the team to fail.

I for one hope you are all very wrong.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Hey, Cassel is the best QB on the roster now

Oh please.... <_<

 

[The Kuhn]

Furthermore no player except for Michael Turner has had more goal line attempts than Adrian Peterson since 2009. http://football.razz...ning-back-stats

Why would you use stats dating from 2009? Let's see the red-zone splits from 2009-2010 and compare to 2011 and 2012 (which seemed worse) under Musgrave. Also, let's see AP vs. all other RBs/QBs if you are going to generalize rushing attempts. I don't think The Kuhn is alone in thinking AP was not involved enough in the redzone. Perhaps you are right, but the way you presented the facts seems ambiguous.

I dont have goal line data for AD specifically for 2012 available right now or I would have added it. I did list the pass attempts and rushing attempts from nfl.com you can count up how many AD got of those 36 rushing attempts from 10 yards or less if you want. I know from what I saw AD was getting most of them. It is not the same thing as what I linked which is rushing attempts from 5 yards or less, but that does not have the 2012 stats. It covers 2009-2011 and thought it was interesting when searching GL stats so I added that information. Would be nice to see that updated for 2012.I felt that the Vikings resorted to a play action pass in the red zone too often last season myself but then when I look at the actual numbers I realize it was 31 PA to 36 RA and 14TD passing compared to 10TD rushing. Remember most of those TD passes went to Rudolph and I have no problem with the Vikings calling that play over letting Peterson try to run over the other team again. I actually thought the pass attempts in that situation were higher compared to the runs until I actually looked at it.

All I know is I complained regularly this season that AP was not in there, or not used, as soon as the Vikes got into the red-zone. Whatever it was, it wasn't enough.

Perception is not always reality however. I am curious now so perhaps I will look into it deeper but I am guessing that Peterson got 26-30 of those 36 rushing attempts inside the 10 yard line but maybe I am wrong. If that is enough or not? I am not sure. What percentage should it be?Another thing to consider is that Peterson was playing through a hernia late in the season also. The main game that I saw this come into play was against Houston. He was clearly wincing in pain and that is when they spelled him with Gerhardt. There may be times where they are just giving him a breather particularly if he just broke off a long run to get them in scoring range. All I am trying to say is that there may be reasons we are not always aware of for why certain packages and substitutions are used. If AD takes himself out for a breather you guys will still blame Musgrave.

I think AD did quite enough last season recovering from his ACL.

I'm not saying Peterson didn't do enough...I'm saying even if he's not the guy you plan on running the ball, he attracts attention from the defense on every snap, and you know he'd love to be in there anyway. Often they had Gerhart or Harvin back there- I'm not sure how often exactly, but there were 3-down series where he didn't get a single try to punch it in, which seems crazy to me.Don't get me wrong- I was excited for what they did last year, but I look at the Lions from the past two seasons, and the Vikings can certainly regress in a similar fashion, as they got where they did in spite of their flaws, and by Peterson's herculean effort. Peterson is definitely the guy that COULD have back-to-back dominating seasons, but history suggests the odds are not good for it- which means success hinges on the OC, Ponder, and a recycled WR corps (again) to take things to the next level.

 

[BigJim®]

Jennings came away from his first discussions with Ponder with the feeling that the young QB is very confident and won’t be looking over his shoulder.

Yeah, I suppose not.

If you find that so funny why did you cut off this part? The rest of that paragraph?

He made strides from his rookie season to his second year and Jennings wants to be part of his continued ascent in the NFL.

I mean isn't that even more laughable?I some times I think Vikings fans give so little credit to the team for things they do well and expect so much that even what Peterson did last season isn't enough. It almost seems like they want the team to fail.

I for one hope you are all very wrong.

Good grief. No one wants to me to be wrong about Ponder more than myself, and I most certainly don't want the Vikes to fail. That's ridiculous. I agree I could focus my attention more on the promising things that go on, but people are going to have opinions on key topics like the QB position. We do have 2 seasons worth of information on the topic. Personally I can't see how Ponder made strides in 2012. Seems to me most Ponder supporters acknowledge he looked bad, but are inclined to blame the WRs he had to work with. That's not making strides. JMHO, he was pedestrian at his best in 2012 (by NFL QB standards), and difference-making bad at his worst in 2012. His long passes were either out of bounds or thrown up for grabs, and he had happy feet. But again, no one wants me to be more wrong about Ponder than me. I'd love to be posting 'boy was I wrong' in 2013, just like I hoped to do in 2012.

 

[Heatman]

Jennings came away from his first discussions with Ponder with the feeling that the young QB is very confident and won’t be looking over his shoulder.

Yeah, I suppose not.

If you find that so funny why did you cut off this part? The rest of that paragraph?

He made strides from his rookie season to his second year and Jennings wants to be part of his continued ascent in the NFL.

I mean isn't that even more laughable?I some times I think Vikings fans give so little credit to the team for things they do well and expect so much that even what Peterson did last season isn't enough. It almost seems like they want the team to fail.

I for one hope you are all very wrong.

Good grief. No one wants to me to be wrong about Ponder more than myself, and I most certainly don't want the Vikes to fail. That's ridiculous. I agree I could focus my attention more on the promising things that go on, but people are going to have opinions on key topics like the QB position. We do have 2 seasons worth of information on the topic. Personally I can't see how Ponder made strides in 2012. Seems to me most Ponder supporters acknowledge he looked bad, but are inclined to blame the WRs he had to work with. That's not making strides. JMHO, he was pedestrian at his best in 2012 (by NFL QB standards), and difference-making bad at his worst in 2012. His long passes were either out of bounds or thrown up for grabs, and he had happy feet. But again, no one wants me to be more wrong about Ponder than me. I'd love to be posting 'boy was I wrong' in 2013, just like I hoped to do in 2012.

Seemed to me that Ponder played well early in the season. Than as he got close to getting married things went to crap. As soon as he got married things seemed to start settling down for him again. Perhaps he was distracted and not working as hard on the game.

 

[FunkyPlutos]

Ponder: 59.2%, 4788 yards, 31 TD/25 INT

Eli: 51.6%, 4805 yards, 30 TD/26 INT

Rodgers: 48.4%, 111 yards, 0 TD/1 INT

Stats for first two years...will he be those two guys? Maybe not, but a little early to judge, especially with the lack of WR options he has had.