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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (1 Viewer)

Did they really just hire Tom Cable again, or is this just a lucid nightmare from the substances not wearing off from last night?

Forget the PR risk of hiring a domestic abuser for a second - though I wish we had a higher standard. We’re supposed to be raising the bar and upgrading everywhere, on the field and off, not going over the same tired and ineffective ground.

Per Football Outsiders, Cable’s o lines have never ranked higher than 20th in adjusted sack rate. 

Here’s hoping talent rises above coaching to keep Carr standing, and that Gruden resists going back to the zbs scheme that mired our team in mediocrity the last time around with Cable.
I saw that list but i was trying to remember out of those teams who he was working with. I dont recall us having decent talent on the line and Seattle hasnt. 

No way we go ZBS with the o-line we have that is clearly built for power. I can see Gruden throwing in a couple of plays but that is not a concern for me at all.

 
I am ambevilant about the hire — or should I say rehire? — of Tom Cable as Oline coach.

On one hand, Cable has a nice record of developing players. He also brings expertise of the zone blocking scheme.

On the other hand, the Oline is more suited to a power run game. Witness the 12 wins in 2016 and Carr’s accension.

Decent article bringing up the concern: Link

If Gruden is the savior then my guess is they will run a mixed run game and adopt some of the things Ried is doing schematically.

 
Ed Wood said:
Another uninspiring pick. I don't get it. Gruden's had 8, 9 years to "scout" coaches and he's hiring retreads (almost typed "#######").
What's to get? A retread is hiring retreads, makes sense to me.

 
Raiders announce 13 coaching hires

Posted by Darin Gantt on January 18, 2018, 2:37 PM EST

The Raiders have been adding guys to their coaching staff along the way, and formalized the hires of 13 of them Thursday.

The team announced the new coaches en masse, many of whose names have already been reported.

One new name among the list is defensive line coach Mike Trgovac, who was let go as part of the defensive staff housecleaning in Green Bay. Trgovac had spent the previous nine years working there under Dom Capers, after the previous seven years in Carolina (six of those as defensive coordinator).

The release said that any “remaining staff additions will be announced at a later date,” which suggests that there could be some. They had previously announced offensive coordinator Greg Olson, defensive coordinator Paul Guenther and special teams coordinator Rich Bisaccia.

The full list includes Derrick Ansley (defensive backs), Edgar Bennett (wide receivers), Tim Berbenich (quality control – offense), Tom Cable (offensive line), Nick Holz (quality control – offense), David Lippincott (linebackers), Jim O’Neil (senior defensive assistant), Dave Razzano (director of football research), Jemal Singleton (running backs), Frank Smith (tight ends), Travis Smith (quality control – defense), and Byron Storer (assistant special teams).

The list did not include Tee Martin, who interviewed for the head coaching job (sorry tried to type that with a straight face) and then for an assistant gig. They didn’t retain their other Rooney Rule interview, tight ends coach Bobby Johnson, either.

 
Just a random thought...Ansley is intriguing when looking at the Raiders draft needs. The former Alabama DB coach certainly will have a lot to say about Minkah Fitzpatrick. I gotta think with Reggie's tendency to draft DBs in the 1st round and having Ansley in the house Fitzpatrick might be the guy they're targeting. Especially if Bowman comes back, Reggie might stick to his guns and keep mining for LBs deep in the draft instead of going with the likes of R. Smith in the 1st. 

 
saw something on twitter saying the Raiders were interested in RB Dion Lewis in the offseason

 
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saw something on twitter saying the Raiders were interested in RB Dion Lewis in the offseason
Washington and Richard on the outs with the new regime? Richard took a step back this season but Washington seems to be a younger, healthier version of Lewis. Maybe I'm wrong.

 
Bruno2 said:
Washington and Richard on the outs with the new regime? Richard took a step back this season but Washington seems to be a younger, healthier version of Lewis. Maybe I'm wrong.
As much of a mancrush I have on Dion, I would not want to see him come to the team as a preplacement for any of the 3 RBs we currently have. We need a runner like Lynch, and Dion doesn't bring that N/S/downhill style, and Washington and Richard seem like lower risk and fresher candidates -- Lewis is only 3 years older, but that's a lot of wear/tear in that delta.

I have no idea what to make out of all the subcoach hires.

 
In the 'it's far too-early for a mock draft' mock drafts that I have seen (including the likes of Kiper and Jeremiah)... the Raiders have been selecting Roquan Smith at 10.   Which means that is more likely not the pick we will see come april.

 
In the 'it's far too-early for a mock draft' mock drafts that I have seen (including the likes of Kiper and Jeremiah)... the Raiders have been selecting Roquan Smith at 10.   Which means that is more likely not the pick we will see come april.
I see that pick a lot, too -- I like it, but also think that nabbing one of the best (if not the best) CBs available in the draft is just, if not more, of a positional need. I am not sure how talented the or deep the overall pool is, or how the top 3 at the position rank comparatively against the top 3 at another position of need (LB, DE) but if a guy like Joshua Jackson is there for us, I'd be heavily considering going that way.

 
I love Gruden and super excited about his hiring. I have to admit though that I was expecting to be more impressed with the coaching hirings considering all the write ups about him recruiting over the years and networking while not being in coaching and access to all these NFL coaches etc.

Cable scares the hell out of me. Our O-line is decidedly not ZBS type of build. And Cable is a ZBS guy. I hate it when coaches have a system and then try to fit round pegs into square holes. We did a bunch more ZBS stuff this last year and I think that that and unimaginative overall scheme of Downing is a big reason why our O-line underperformed and thus the offense underperformed. If you are not going to run ZBS why hire Cable? Now, I have read that there are some hybrid type concepts that you can run for a power built O-line but still, why bother with that? Why not let your O-line be what it was built to be?

Jemel Singleton, I think, is a good get though. I want to say the same for Edgar Bennet but it just goofey to me how a guy who was always a RB as a player can be a good WR coach. But hey, he had success as one and has the extra experience of being an OC too.

 
As much of a mancrush I have on Dion, I would not want to see him come to the team as a preplacement for any of the 3 RBs we currently have. We need a runner like Lynch, and Dion doesn't bring that N/S/downhill style, and Washington and Richard seem like lower risk and fresher candidates -- Lewis is only 3 years older, but that's a lot of wear/tear in that delta.

I have no idea what to make out of all the subcoach hires.
Replacing Washington and Richard seems dumb.   We need a good, bigger 3 down back

 
I see that pick a lot, too -- I like it, but also think that nabbing one of the best (if not the best) CBs available in the draft is just, if not more, of a positional need. I am not sure how talented the or deep the overall pool is, or how the top 3 at the position rank comparatively against the top 3 at another position of need (LB, DE) but if a guy like Joshua Jackson is there for us, I'd be heavily considering going that way.
Love Josh Jackson. He is a ball hawk which the Raiders desperately need. Jackson and a healthy Conley would make a great CB pair imo.

 
I love Gruden and super excited about his hiring. I have to admit though that I was expecting to be more impressed with the coaching hirings considering all the write ups about him recruiting over the years and networking while not being in coaching and access to all these NFL coaches etc.

Cable scares the hell out of me. Our O-line is decidedly not ZBS type of build. And Cable is a ZBS guy. I hate it when coaches have a system and then try to fit round pegs into square holes. We did a bunch more ZBS stuff this last year and I think that that and unimaginative overall scheme of Downing is a big reason why our O-line underperformed and thus the offense underperformed. If you are not going to run ZBS why hire Cable? Now, I have read that there are some hybrid type concepts that you can run for a power built O-line but still, why bother with that? Why not let your O-line be what it was built to be?

Jemel Singleton, I think, is a good get though. I want to say the same for Edgar Bennet but it just goofey to me how a guy who was always a RB as a player can be a good WR coach. But hey, he had success as one and has the extra experience of being an OC too.
I like the hirings of Derrick Ansley, Edgar Bennett, and Mike Trgovac. The others I admit I don't know much about so I'm on a wait and see mode for them. 

 
Cable scares the hell out of me. Our O-line is decidedly not ZBS type of build. And Cable is a ZBS guy. I hate it when coaches have a system and then try to fit round pegs into square holes. We did a bunch more ZBS stuff this last year and I think that that and unimaginative overall scheme of Downing is a big reason why our O-line underperformed and thus the offense underperformed. If you are not going to run ZBS why hire Cable? Now, I have read that there are some hybrid type concepts that you can run for a power built O-line but still, why bother with that? Why not let your O-line be what it was built to be?
I had the same concern when Cable's hiring was first announced. I read a pretty good follow up article (can't find it now) about Cable bring an expertise of the "pin and pull" to the scheme. For the more initiated:

https://www.xandolabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2171:concept-blocking-the-pin-and-pull-scheme1&catid=94&Itemid=162

http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2015/10/football-fundamentals-pin-and-pull-scheme-blocking-rules.html

This technique is sort of a blend of power blocking / ZBS.

Remember that Gruden is a WCO disciple and ZBS is a key part of his system. My hope is that they leverage the player's skill to the system, which makes sense. 

 
I see that pick a lot, too -- I like it, but also think that nabbing one of the best (if not the best) CBs available in the draft is just, if not more, of a positional need. I am not sure how talented the or deep the overall pool is, or how the top 3 at the position rank comparatively against the top 3 at another position of need (LB, DE) but if a guy like Joshua Jackson is there for us, I'd be heavily considering going that way.
I was see R Smith's name in mocks all over the place too and was falling in love with the write ups.

Then I saw the note about the Raiders hoping to re-sign Bowman and assume that would "solve" that position for the coming few years.

Agreed?

Bowman seemed pretty damn solid to me this year.

 
I was see R Smith's name in mocks all over the place too and was falling in love with the write ups.

Then I saw the note about the Raiders hoping to re-sign Bowman and assume that would "solve" that position for the coming few years.

Agreed?

Bowman seemed pretty damn solid to me this year.
R. Smith could move to the outside and play there as well.

 
I would be thrilled if they picked Roquan.  Three down linebacker with great instincts.  No reason they couldn't re-sign Bowman and pick Roquan.

 
snagging the best D player would be fine by me. 
Don't get me wrong. I agree. I just just don't think it will happen. Although, it would be cool to be a fly on the wall in the draft room now with Gruden and his $100 mil in the house. I wonder how much say he will have.

 
I was see R Smith's name in mocks all over the place too and was falling in love with the write ups.

Then I saw the note about the Raiders hoping to re-sign Bowman and assume that would "solve" that position for the coming few years.

Agreed?

Bowman seemed pretty damn solid to me this year.
Partially agree -- love what Bowman brought to the team immediately, and he absolutely fills a hole in our defensive needs. If the Raiders don't resign him, I think it's a big mistake.

I still think even if we do resign, we should look for quality LB talent in the draft for starting/rotational depth. Our D aside from Mack has been a welcome sight for any team with any semblance of a passing game. We need guys to cover big physical TEs and slot receivers, and in addition to having solid inside/outside run coverage, guys who can also put pass pressure on the opposing QB.

 
Partially agree -- love what Bowman brought to the team immediately, and he absolutely fills a hole in our defensive needs. If the Raiders don't resign him, I think it's a big mistake.

I still think even if we do resign, we should look for quality LB talent in the draft for starting/rotational depth. Our D aside from Mack has been a welcome sight for any team with any semblance of a passing game. We need guys to cover big physical TEs and slot receivers, and in addition to having solid inside/outside run coverage, guys who can also put pass pressure on the opposing QB.
The coaches said we want to sign him. He said he wants to sign. Do we have the money to sign him is the question.

 
The coaches said we want to sign him. He said he wants to sign. Do we have the money to sign him is the question.
Sure. We have plenty to sign a LB on the downside of his career.  

Regarding this offseason, I like looking at all the draft eligible players that are at positions of need.  I like mock drafts, but they are comically incorrect right now. I'm a lot more interested in what holes we fill on the team before the draft. 

As a point of discussion, what relationships do our new coaches have that can pay off in FA?  

Offensive Coordinator – Greg Olson--recent connects as offensive coach with Jags and Rams.  Trumaine Johnson, Sammy Watkins, Marquise Lee, LaMarcus Joyner, Allen Robinson, Tyrunn Walker, Aaron Colvin

Quarterbacks – Vacant

Running Backs – Jemal Singleton-Colts, only.  Kamar Aiken, Donte Moncrief, Darius Butler, Jack Mewhort, Pierre Desir, Rashaan Melvin?

Wide Receivers – Edgar Bennett--Green Bay lifer.  Morgan Burnett, Davon House

Tight Ends – Frank Smith--Past three years same position with CHI.  Saints 2010-14.  I seriously see no major player on either team worth spending more that 1.5 mill on.  

Offensive Line – Tom Cable--Seattle since he left here.  Paul Richardson, Dashawn Shead, Sheldon Richardson, etc.

Quality Control/Offense - Nick Holz--Raider lifer, Stanford back in the day.

Quality Control/Offense - Tim Berbenich--Colts since 2013, mostly Gruden with TB before that.  

Rich Bisaccia Special Teams-Cowboys last few years. Meh. DeMarcus Lawrence, who ain't going anywhere.

Defensive Coordinator – Paul Guenther--Bengals. Bengals unfortunately have little in free agency, but two are interesting:  Tyler Eifert, Andre Smith

Senior Defensive Assistant – Jim O'Neil--Came from SF in 2016, CLE before that.  Four years with Jets before that.  Carlos Hyde, Eric Reid?

Defensive Line – Mike Trgovac--Packers last few years.  

Linebackers – David Lippincott--Bengals lifer, same ties as Guenther

Defensive Backs – Derrick Ansley--Young guy, his resume is Alabama, and Kentucky. So he knows recent Alabama grads, who are not eligible for FA. Little use, it seems.  

Quality Control/Defense - Travis Smith--Raiders lifer. 

Director of Football Research--Dave Razzano--This guy is interesting, it seems like Gruden/Reggie brought on a vet scout, he's been the western US area scout for Indy last six years. 

 
Sure. We have plenty to sign a LB on the downside of his career.  
We have Mack to extend this year. Which is going to cost a pretty penny.

Also Cooper but his play last year will give us a bit of a discount.

How much play money will we have after that?

 
I think they could free up some money with cuts as well. Sean Smith? Amerson? Reggie Nelson?
Nelson is gone. Not sure of the savings there.

I think we paid Smith a decent amount. He started playing decently. I have a feeling that his struggles were personal based. He had some domestic stuff going on and it seems to coincide with his dip in play.

I think we didn't pay much on Amerson. Maybe we keep him on if so.

Crabtree frees some cash up and it seems he is gone.

I can't think of any other spots where we would be savings money.

 
If this site is correct cutting Amerson would free up #7.5 million: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/david-amerson-12332/

Crabtree's contract is around the same amount: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/michael-crabtree-5964/
If they get they Crabtree of 2016 that is a pretty good deal based on the going rate. If it is the 2017 version, not so much.

Another player that under performed is Gabe Jackson. Trading or cutting him would save $10 million: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/michael-crabtree-5964/

Looks like the team has a little under $23 million in cap space as of now: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap/

That seems to be enough to get Mack signed and either one big signing and a couple mid tier signings. I am not a capologist so feel free to correct me. 

 
If this site is correct cutting Amerson would free up #7.5 million: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/david-amerson-12332/

Crabtree's contract is around the same amount: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/michael-crabtree-5964/
If they get they Crabtree of 2016 that is a pretty good deal based on the going rate. If it is the 2017 version, not so much.

Another player that under performed is Gabe Jackson. Trading or cutting him would save $10 million: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/michael-crabtree-5964/

Looks like the team has a little under $23 million in cap space as of now: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap/

That seems to be enough to get Mack signed and either one big signing and a couple mid tier signings. I am not a capologist so feel free to correct me. 
Jackson? Um.... I feel the need to correct you.

 
You disagree that Jackson did not perform to his contract? You do know at one point in the season he was benched for Feliciano, right? If that is going to be the norm with this guy then I argue that money can be better served elsewhere. 

 
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32 Counter Pass said:
You disagree that Jackson did not perform to his contract? You do know at one point in the season he was benched for Feliciano, right? If that is going to be the norm with this guy then I argue that money can be better served elsewhere. 
I disagree with putting the fault on Jackson. I think it was the piss poor scheme that further misplaced him trying to do too much zone blocking and power like he is built for. I don't blame him. The whole line that was easily top 3 two years ago doing more power concepts underperformed put into more zone concepts.

 
I can understand that POV, and do not disagree. But if Jackson displays an inability to pick up Gruden's system then he is becomes an over paid liability the team can't afford.  I thinkmy main issue is the contract itself. There was no need for Reggie to extend him an offer of $10 million a year. I think that was a big mistake. Maybe they can renegotiated it this coming year. 

 
massraider said:
Sure. We have plenty to sign a LB on the downside of his career.  

Regarding this offseason, I like looking at all the draft eligible players that are at positions of need.  I like mock drafts, but they are comically incorrect right now. I'm a lot more interested in what holes we fill on the team before the draft. 

As a point of discussion, what relationships do our new coaches have that can pay off in FA?  

Offensive Coordinator – Greg Olson--recent connects as offensive coach with Jags and Rams.  Trumaine Johnson, Sammy Watkins, Marquise Lee, LaMarcus Joyner, Allen Robinson, Tyrunn Walker, Aaron Colvin

Quarterbacks – Vacant

Running Backs – Jemal Singleton-Colts, only.  Kamar Aiken, Donte Moncrief, Darius Butler, Jack Mewhort, Pierre Desir, Rashaan Melvin?

Wide Receivers – Edgar Bennett--Green Bay lifer.  Morgan Burnett, Davon House

Tight Ends – Frank Smith--Past three years same position with CHI.  Saints 2010-14.  I seriously see no major player on either team worth spending more that 1.5 mill on.  

Offensive Line – Tom Cable--Seattle since he left here.  Paul Richardson, Dashawn Shead, Sheldon Richardson, etc.

Quality Control/Offense - Nick Holz--Raider lifer, Stanford back in the day.

Quality Control/Offense - Tim Berbenich--Colts since 2013, mostly Gruden with TB before that.  

Rich Bisaccia Special Teams-Cowboys last few years. Meh. DeMarcus Lawrence, who ain't going anywhere.

Defensive Coordinator – Paul Guenther--Bengals. Bengals unfortunately have little in free agency, but two are interesting:  Tyler Eifert, Andre Smith

Senior Defensive Assistant – Jim O'Neil--Came from SF in 2016, CLE before that.  Four years with Jets before that.  Carlos Hyde, Eric Reid?

Defensive Line – Mike Trgovac--Packers last few years.  

Linebackers – David Lippincott--Bengals lifer, same ties as Guenther

Defensive Backs – Derrick Ansley--Young guy, his resume is Alabama, and Kentucky. So he knows recent Alabama grads, who are not eligible for FA. Little use, it seems.  

Quality Control/Defense - Travis Smith--Raiders lifer. 

Director of Football Research--Dave Razzano--This guy is interesting, it seems like Gruden/Reggie brought on a vet scout, he's been the western US area scout for Indy last six years. 
Not sure how much pull a first year DB coach has. But I'd bet Ansley has a lot to say about Minkah Fitzpatrick and will lobby hard for him. I know it's early but Reggie loves picking DBs high and if he's there at 9/10 I think he'll be a Raider.

 
didn't Amerson get hurt? I thought he was the star of our defensive backfield for a while and recall and injury, not performance, to change that. Am I mis-remembering?
Honestly at those prices I would only get rid of Sean Smith.  And I would reconsider resigning Smith for a reduced rate.

No way you cut bait on Gabe Jackson at this point.  Too young and has performed too well in the past to consider 2017 as anything more than an aberration.

 
Chadstroma said:
We have Mack to extend this year. Which is going to cost a pretty penny.

Also Cooper but his play last year will give us a bit of a discount.

How much play money will we have after that?
I'm not sure how this works exactly so I'm just throwing this out there. The Raiders are already paying Mack almost $14 million this next season. When they restructure his contract most likely they will only add a few million to that $14 million number so will Mack really take a huge chunk out of the cap this next season?

Cooper will be entering his fourth season and the Raiders still have the 5th year option to play with on Cooper. 

So I think we will be sitting better with the cap that people realize.

 
I'm not sure how this works exactly so I'm just throwing this out there. The Raiders are already paying Mack almost $14 million this next season. When they restructure his contract most likely they will only add a few million to that $14 million number so will Mack really take a huge chunk out of the cap this next season?

Cooper will be entering his fourth season and the Raiders still have the 5th year option to play with on Cooper. 

So I think we will be sitting better with the cap that people realize.
He didn't have a defensive MVP season last year so that helps but you can't sign an elite pass rusher for $14 a year. Think Von Miller $114 million over 6 years two years ago to get an idea of what kind of money ball park we are going to be talking about.

 
I hope there is not even a glimmer of truth to this.  Bell is extremely talented but the Raiders do not need his price tag or crap attitude. 
Agree... This is nonsense. The free agent talk should be about fixing the defense. Offense needs to shore up the tackle positions and WR depth. If they're going to shake up the RB position, do it through the draft in the mid rounds.

 

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