***OFFICIAL Trump vs. DeSantis Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[sho nuff]

Cheney said the Republican Party "can't survive" if the former president runs for the White House again and wins the GOP nomination for 2024

I think that he can't be the party nominee. And I don't think the party would survive that," Cheney said. "I believe in the party, and I and I believe in what the party can be and what the party can stand for. And I'm not ready to give that up."

"Those of us who believe in Republican principles and ideals have a responsibility to try to lead the party back to what it can be, and to reject, and to reject so much of the toxin and the vitriol," she added.

The complete interview with Janathon Karl

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/prosecuting-trump-jan-fuel-graver-threat-liz-cheney/story?id=86132933

I ask again to anyone who knows Desantis...in what ways is he fundamentally different that Trump?

 

[JIslander]

Yeah, the magnanimous step aside and endorsement, I don't see it.

There's no money in it. He raised 250 mill conning dumb people into thinking he's fighting voter fraud. Then using that money to pay legal bills. Well, he still has legal bills. 

He lost the revenue stream of putting his name on things, because no one who stays in hotels regularly wants to stay in a hotel with his name on it. So......what's he doing for a living? 

Fund-raising as a politician. I don't see how handing off the baton to Ronny Florida, a guy Donald possibly sees as a watered-down version of himself, is in Trump's best interest. 

 yep

 

[The Commish]

I ask again to anyone who knows Desantis...in what ways is he fundamentally different that Trump?

In DeSantis' defense, I do think he is FAR more self aware than Trump is and I don't think he'd attempt to burn it all down like Trump did.  That's a pretty big fundamental difference.

 

[timschochet]

I ask again to anyone who knows Desantis...in what ways is he fundamentally different that Trump?

My impression of DeSantis is that, as President, he would push for policies which I very much disapprove of. Like Trump, he appears to be a nativist, a populist, and a very right wing culture guy. 
But I have no reason to believe that he’s mentally unstable or treasonous to the USA. Therefore if these two were my only choices, I would choose DeSantis 100 times out of 100. 

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, the magnanimous step aside and endorsement, I don't see it.

There's no money in it. He raised 250 mill conning dumb people into thinking he's fighting voter fraud. Then using that money to pay legal bills. Well, he still has legal bills. 

He lost the revenue stream of putting his name on things, because no one who stays in hotels regularly wants to stay in a hotel with his name on it. So......what's he doing for a living? 

Fund-raising as a politician. I don't see how handing off the baton to Ronny Florida, a guy Donald possibly sees as a watered-down version of himself, is in Trump's best interest. 

Agreed. He's running in 2024. 

 

[rockaction]

DeSantis has a third of the charisma of Trump, and charisma is yuge when appealing to who they have to appeal to. These are not your foul-weather voters we're talking about. We're talking about people who support a nativist, knee-jerk movement, rife with conspiracy theories and hardened with a complete distrust in government and news about government. Trump is the king of that crowd. DeSantis is playing the secondest of second fiddles. 

 

[sho nuff]

In DeSantis' defense, I do think he is FAR more self aware than Trump is and I don't think he'd attempt to burn it all down like Trump did.  That's a pretty big fundamental difference.

A good one for sure...a big difference to have.

I mean more policy wise.  

 

[sho nuff]

My impression of DeSantis is that, as President, he would push for policies which I very much disapprove of. Like Trump, he appears to be a nativist, a populist, and a very right wing culture guy. 
But I have no reason to believe that he’s mentally unstable or treasonous to the USA. Therefore if these two were my only choices, I would choose DeSantis 100 times out of 100. 

Sure...he seems preferred to Trump.  But policy wise if he is the same...just smarter and more savvy, could be even worse in different ways.  Especially if mid terms go the way they look they will as he will have control of every branch of government and a very friendly SCOTUS.

 

[The Commish]

A good one for sure...a big difference to have.

I mean more policy wise.  

He's also been decent on climate change initiatives here in Florida.  He's done SOME of what he said and he doesn't deny that the issues exist.  He goes out of his way to suggest those issues are because of "climate change" though, which is funny to me, but as long as they are moving forward on those things, I don't care what they call them.

I think another big difference is his "all bark and no bite" approach....like with school masking etc.  He created the headline he wanted but then did nothing meaningful when the school districts ignored him or when he went to "battle" with the cruise lines, who, ignored him and he did nothing.  With Trump you can believe when he says he's going to burn it down, that's what he's going to do.

 

[sho nuff]

He's also been decent on climate change initiatives here in Florida.  He's done SOME of what he said and he doesn't deny that the issues exist.  He goes out of his way to suggest those issues are because of "climate change" though, which is funny to me, but as long as they are moving forward on those things, I don't care what they call them.

I think another big difference is his "all bark and no bite" approach....like with school masking etc.  He created the headline he wanted but then did nothing meaningful when the school districts ignored him or when he went to "battle" with the cruise lines, who, ignored him and he did nothing.  With Trump you can believe when he says he's going to burn it down, that's what he's going to do.

THanks...so what may become more important is who is leading the House and Senate and pushing an agenda he would rubber stamp.

 

[The Commish]

THanks...so what may become more important is who is leading the House and Senate and pushing an agenda he would rubber stamp.

Yup....just like any other "normal" President.  It's sad that this reality is a "step in the right direction" compared to many others in the GOP today.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I ask again to anyone who knows Desantis...in what ways is he fundamentally different that Trump?

IMO viewing DeSantis in relation to Trump is misguided, and probably due in large part to that silly ad he ran during his gubernatorial campaign. He was a founding member of the House Freedom Caucus. He's much more like a Jim Jordan than he is like Trump. Which is to say, he's highly ideological (which is, uh, not a word I'd use to describe Trump).

He's also very smart, which allows him to put an intellectual spin on his views. The pandemic is the perfect distillation of that. Trump minimized Covid because he thought it would hurt his re-election chances. He opposed masks because he thought they made him look weak. DeSantis, meanwhile, went out and found all those iconoclastic Great Barrington Declaration academics and came up with a whole worldview around how Covid restrictions were unnecessary, vaccines aren't important, etc.

The one way they are similar is that they both intuited that the path to political salvation lay in constantly stoking the MAGA base, always picking fights with liberals and refusing to back down. I wish I could give credit to whoever posted this, but in one of the threads here someone said something like Trump wants you to fight his enemies, DeSantis wants to fight your enemies.

I do agree that he would likely clear the low bar of not trying to overturn election results, leading armed assaults on the Capitol, etc. And that's definitely not nothing! But I'm not entirely sold on his commitment to democracy. I think he (like a disturbingly growing number of people on the right) see Viktor Orban as a model. Orban isn't about throwing elections, he's about rigging the game so that he never has to worry about losing them. And this is where his hard-right ideology comes into play. As outlined in the article I linked to above:

DeSantis does not believe the Constitution merely establishes a set of ground rules for how policy should be written. He thinks the Constitution requires that conservative Republican policy prevail forever. This is not an original belief. It was the dominant right-wing position from the late-19th century through the middle of the New Deal, and conservative courts routinely struck down all sorts of progressive legislation on the grounds that the Constitution prohibits active government intervention in the economy.

[...]

DeSantis’s core conviction is that an outcome in which Democrats win majorities through free and fair elections and vote to expand social spending by taxing the rich is fundamentally illegitimate. He is far from the only Republican to hold this view. The American right has never fully accepted the legitimacy of democratically elected majorities setting economic policy.

This principle helps explain why even most Republicans who get queasy over Trump’s authoritarianism ultimately support him anyway. The prospect of Democrats winning elections poses a graver threat to the Constitution than Republicans stealing them.

All that said, I would still take DeSantis over Trump six days a week and twice on Sunday. He's smart and cagey and, more than any politician since Obama, has been blessed with incompetent opponents. If he enters office with large GOP majorities, I fear he would do far more legislative damage than Trump or Bush. But he doesn't represent the kind of frontal assault on democracy that Trump does.

 

[massraider]

Former President Trump is reportedly considering making an announcement of a 2024 presidential run this summer. "It could very well change the whole landscape of 2022,"

@costareports says on how an "unusually early" announcement by Trump could impact the midterm elections.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1544451202909339650?s=20&t=C3e2pU0ib6WGMqFSCp6tsQ

 

[ZADO]

I ask again to anyone who knows Desantis...in what ways is he fundamentally different that Trump?

Hes not Trump , thats enough lol

Seriously tho he endorses the policies i believe in .
Will get Immigration tightened up
Is anti woke 
anti cancel culture 
pro 2nd amendment
Isnt totally anti abortion (heartbeat law)
Isnt afraid to stand up for his base but isnt crude about it
Good family man who wants the best for kids in schools 
wont force Covid shutdowns if that arises again
Has Florida in great financial shape and i trust he could do the same for the whole country


Thats just off the top of my head
 

 

[eoMMan]

Won’t lie, it’s going to be fun seeing these two go at in a debate. It wasn’t that long ago when DeSantis won governor after basically praising Trump and riding his coattails (you can google the old campaign ads). I’m sure Trump will be quick to point that out.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Won’t lie, it’s going to be fun seeing these two go at in a debate. It wasn’t that long ago when DeSantis won governor after basically praising Trump and riding his coattails (you can google the old campaign ads). I’m sure Trump will be quick to point that out.

It is interesting that no one's really been going after DeSantis for most of the past couple years. His Democratic opponents in this year's gubernatorial election are both hapless, and even to the extent the media has gone after him, the attacks have been all over the place (the 60 Minutes hit piece being the most notable example). And of course, attacks from liberals and the media only help him in the context of a GOP primary. It's telling that the most coherent line of attack against him came in a drive-by from a governor on the other side of the country, frontally taking him on over the issue of "freedom".

Meanwhile, he regularly receives tongue baths from Fox News, where the order has apparently come down from on high that Rupert wants to make him the new face of the party. Which means the typical GOP primary voter's exposure to him basically consists of "Fox thinks he's great and the liberal media hates him." No wonder his positives are so high.

I do think DeSantis has a lot going for him, but I also think he has a number of weaknesses, and in a competitive GOP primary, particularly one that involves Trump, you can bet those will be highlighted

 

[Joe Mammy]

Won’t lie, it’s going to be fun seeing these two go at in a debate.

You'll never see that debate. They are both terrible debaters and the pubs are already doing all they can to not debate.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

You'll never see that debate. They are both terrible debaters and the pubs are already doing all they can to not debate.

I would be absolutely shocked if there are general election debates in 2024. Republicans have basically declared that they don't believe in the concept of an "honest broker". Not the Commission on Presidential Debates, not any moderator from the "lamestream media", not even Chris Wallace.

But in the GOP primary? Unclear. I'm sure they'll steer clear of CNN or any of the major networks. but I could definitely picture debates sponsored by Fox, Newsmax, OANN, Dan Bongino, Diamond and Silk, MyPillow, Hobby Lobby, Chick-fil-A, Alex Jones, QAnon, etc.

Now, as to you question whether the candidates would participate, I don't think it's too far fetched that DeSantis would want a chance to raise his visibility and show he can go toe-to-toe with Trump. And I think Trump would relish the opportunity to open up both barrels on DeSantis. I'd put it as 50/50 that it happens.

(For the record, after the last couple cycles I'm pretty much at the point where I would throw out everything I believe in and pledge my vote, my undying support and my second-born child to whichever candidate ran on a platform of fewer primary debates).

 

[Captain Cranks]

The Lincoln Project

Despite being blatantly obvious what they're trying to do, it will still work. They know how bad his narcissism is.

 

[JIslander]

The Lincoln Project

Despite being blatantly obvious what they're trying to do, it will still work. They know how bad his narcissism is.

"Trump with a brain" 

THAT's definitely gonna get under his thin skin --I bet Ronnie's hands are bigger too --

 

[The Commish]

The Lincoln Project

Despite being blatantly obvious what they're trying to do, it will still work. They know how bad his narcissism is.

Take notes Dems  

It really is puzzling how the Dems can't figure out it's in their best interests to get DeSantis out there as the "front runner".  Trump would absolutely lose his #### and the onslaught would begin.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Take notes Dems  

That wasn't their first attempt. In case you missed this one from January

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

This is like a third-hand account, and I have no idea if it's true, so please don't bother source-copping it because that's not really the point. But on this week's Pod Save America, one of the hosts was recounting a conversation he had with a plugged in political reporter who is familiar with the DeSantis camp's thinking. And what he said was the exact point I've made in this forum before: DeSantis knows that presidential windows are usually shorter than they appear, and has looked to the example of Christie and Rubio waiting until 2016 -- and the counterexample of Obama not waiting in 2008 -- as a good argument for why he shouldn't just assume he can sit this one out and go for it in '28.

All of which is to say I do think it's likely we get a Trump-DeSantis match-up. How it will play out, I honestly have no clue

 

[The Commish]

That wasn't their first attempt. In case you missed this one from January

They don't pop up for me very often, if ever, so I appreciate the links for some of this stuff.  It's rare that people spend this sort of time and money to create content for a single individual nevermind that approach actually work.

 

[Captain Cranks]

They don't pop up for me very often, if ever, so I appreciate the links for some of this stuff.  It's rare that people spend this sort of time and money to create content for a single individual nevermind that approach actually work.

Oh, man. Their "Last Week in the Republican Party" bits are must watch. 

Gee, where have we seen these soundbites before...

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

This clip is pretty astonishing. Trump has built his entire political career on always staying in tune with the MAGA base. But with vaccines, DeSantis has gotten to his right and has cultivated the anti-vax movement, and Trump seems really flummoxed. He clearly wants to brag about them, but he also doesn't want to get booed again for bringing them up

 

[ekbeats]

I've been saying all along that Trump will not get the nomination.  It'll be interesting to see if Trump runs or not, or what he resorts to when Desantis beats him.  I expect nothing less than classless, selfish behavior.  No matter though.  Densantis will be our next President.

 

[BladeRunner]

I've been saying all along that Trump will not get the nomination.  It'll be interesting to see if Trump runs or not, or what he resorts to when Desantis beats him.  I expect nothing less than classless, selfish behavior.  No matter though.  Densantis will be our next President.

Yep, as have I. 

They need to keep Trump front and center despite him losing more and more support by the day.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I've been saying all along that Trump will not get the nomination.  It'll be interesting to see if Trump runs or not, or what he resorts to when Desantis beats him.  I expect nothing less than classless, selfish behavior.  No matter though.  Densantis will be our next President.

I genuinely don’t know, man. If you tell me DeSantis can beat Trump straight up on a one-to-one matchup, I can see that happening (though I’m not nearly as confident in that outcome as you and BR). But like I said in an earlier post, I’m still having trouble envisioning the scenario where DeSantis manages to unite the party in the face of Trump’s inevitable meltdown after he loses. If it happens, it’s not going to be like Hillary in ‘08 or Bernie in ‘16 or Ted Cruz in ‘16. It will likely be every bit as unprecedented as January 6. Maybe even worse, since Trump would know it would represent the final, humiliating end of his political career

 

[The Dude]

Desantis biggest problem is all the other candidates (Cruz, Rubio, Christie, etc) taking away from his vote count in the primary - while Donald's voters are locked in and maybe enough for Trump to get the nomination with the other voting block fragmented

 

[AAABatteries]

This clip is pretty astonishing. Trump has built his entire political career on always staying in tune with the MAGA base. But with vaccines, DeSantis has gotten to his right and has cultivated the anti-vax movement, and Trump seems really flummoxed. He clearly wants to brag about them, but he also doesn't want to get booed again for bringing them up

When crazy meets crazier.

 

[FairWarning]

Desantis biggest problem is all the other candidates (Cruz, Rubio, Christie, etc) taking away from his vote count in the primary - while Donald's voters are locked in and maybe enough for Trump to get the nomination with the other voting block fragmented

I fear a Trump vs Newsom election. 

 

[The Dude]

Desantis biggest problem is all the other candidates (Cruz, Rubio, Christie, etc) taking away from his vote count in the primary - while Donald's voters are locked in and maybe enough for Trump to get the nomination with the other voting block fragmented

+hogan

+pence

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I fear a Trump vs Newsom election. 

Oof. Absolutely.

 

[FairWarning]

Oof. Absolutely.

We’ll have to band together on a 3rd party candidate.  

 

[Alex P Keaton]

We’ll have to band together on a 3rd party candidate.  

I really, truly wish America could do that

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I fear a Trump vs Newsom election. 

I learned after 2016 to avoid categorical predictions, but I think Newsom running in '24 is exceedingly unlikely. First, I still think people are underestimating the odds that Biden runs for re-election. But if he doesn't, Harris immediately becomes the frontrunner. Granted, she will be a particularly weak frontrunner, and I'm sure she won't run unopposed for the nomination. But Newsom will be particularly ill-equipped to challenge her, for a number of reasons:

• They're long-time friends. Wouldn't be totally unprecedented for friends to compete against each other, but it does make it less likely
  
• They're both Californians, which means they'd be fishing in the same pond when it came to donors and campaign staff. And she'd probably start out with a huge advantage
  
• There's no particularly compelling narrative to distinguish him from her. When Obama ran against Hillary, or Bernie against Hillary, the differences were obvious, both stylistically and policy-wise. That wouldn't be the case here
  
• I don't have any particular objection to Newsom, but I've also never seen many people describe him as a rare political talent. And politics aside, people don't seem to like him very much. He comes across as kind of smarmy.
  
• We've seen over the last few cycles that Black voters, and Black women in particular, are the key constituency in a Democratic primary. They provided Obama's margin over Hillary, Hillary's over Bernie, and Biden's over everyone. Not only would Newsom have trouble making inroads against Harris with them, but I think he'd face a backlash as a white dude trying to take down a Black woman just as she's viewed as the heir apparent.
  

In a scenario where Harris is viewed as the frontrunner, there are probably a number of Democrats who could beat her. But I don't think Newsom is particularly well positioned to be one of them

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I learned after 2016 to avoid categorical predictions, but I think Newsom running in '24 is exceedingly unlikely. First, I still think people are underestimating the odds that Biden runs for re-election. But if he doesn't, Harris immediately becomes the frontrunner. Granted, she will be a particularly weak frontrunner, and I'm sure she won't run unopposed for the nomination. But Newsom will be particularly ill-equipped to challenge her, for a number of reasons:

• They're long-time friends. Wouldn't be totally unprecedented for friends to compete against each other, but it does make it less likely
  
• They're both Californians, which means they'd be fishing in the same pond when it came to donors and campaign staff. And she'd probably start out with a huge advantage
  
• There's no particularly compelling narrative to distinguish him from her. When Obama ran against Hillary, or Bernie against Hillary, the differences were obvious, both stylistically and policy-wise. That wouldn't be the case here
  
• I don't have any particular objection to Newsom, but I've also never seen many people describe him as a rare political talent. And politics aside, people don't seem to like him very much. He comes across as kind of smarmy.
  
• We've seen over the last few cycles that Black voters, and Black women in particular, are the key constituency in a Democratic primary. They provided Obama's margin over Hillary, Hillary's over Bernie, and Biden's over everyone. Not only would Newsom have trouble making inroads against Harris with them, but I think he'd face a backlash as a white dude trying to take down a Black woman just as she's viewed as the heir apparent.
  

In a scenario where Harris is viewed as the frontrunner, there are probably a number of Democrats who could beat her. But I don't think Newsom is particularly well positioned to be one of them

Biden will run again.  Sadly.

If he doesn’t…..Harris has close to zero chance of winning the nomination.

 

[The Dude]

I don’t think newcomers is running.  I think he’s just trying to position himself as the second most powerful man in politics as the governor of CA.

 

[massraider]

Trump lays out the strong new plank in his 2024 platform:

At a campaign rally in Anchorage, AK, on July 9, former President Donald Trump told the audience that the U.S. has ‘bigger problems’ than rising sea levels.

‘We’ll have a little more beachfront property — that’s not the worst thing in the world,’ Trump told the crowd. https://t.co/uOqScwrsOf

 

[beef]

Trump lays out the strong new plank in his 2024 platform:

At a campaign rally in Anchorage, AK, on July 9, former President Donald Trump told the audience that the U.S. has ‘bigger problems’ than rising sea levels.

‘We’ll have a little more beachfront property — that’s not the worst thing in the world,’ Trump told the crowd. https://t.co/uOqScwrsOf

Water levels rise = creates more beachfront property?  US's clean air travels to China and China's dirty air comes back to the US?  70% of republicans believe Biden lost the election?

MURICa!!1!  ™

 

[Amused to Death]

Trump lays out the strong new plank in his 2024 platform:

At a campaign rally in Anchorage, AK, on July 9, former President Donald Trump told the audience that the U.S. has ‘bigger problems’ than rising sea levels.

‘We’ll have a little more beachfront property — that’s not the worst thing in the world,’ Trump told the crowd. https://t.co/uOqScwrsOf

Huh, I guess he's not concerned about his golf course anymore.

Trump acknowledges climate change — at his golf course
Donald Trump says he is “not a big believer in global warming.” He has called it “a total hoax,” “bullspit” and “pseudoscience.”

But he is also trying to build a sea wall designed to protect one of his golf courses from “global warming and its effects.”

A permit application for the wall, filed by Trump International Golf Links Ireland and reviewed by POLITICO, explicitly cites global warming and its consequences — increased erosion due to rising sea levels and extreme weather this century — as a chief justification for building the structure.

“It’s diabolical,” said former South Carolina Republican Rep. Bob Inglis, an advocate of conservative solutions to climate change. “Donald Trump is working to ensure his at-risk properties and his company is trying to figure out how to deal with sea level rise. Meanwhile, he’s saying things to audiences that he must know are not true. … You have a soft place in your heart for people who are honestly ignorant, but people who are deceitful, that’s a different thing.”

 

[sho nuff]

Huh, I guess he's not concerned about his golf course anymore.

Trump acknowledges climate change — at his golf course
Donald Trump says he is “not a big believer in global warming.” He has called it “a total hoax,” “bullspit” and “pseudoscience.”

But he is also trying to build a sea wall designed to protect one of his golf courses from “global warming and its effects.”

A permit application for the wall, filed by Trump International Golf Links Ireland and reviewed by POLITICO, explicitly cites global warming and its consequences — increased erosion due to rising sea levels and extreme weather this century — as a chief justification for building the structure.

“It’s diabolical,” said former South Carolina Republican Rep. Bob Inglis, an advocate of conservative solutions to climate change. “Donald Trump is working to ensure his at-risk properties and his company is trying to figure out how to deal with sea level rise. Meanwhile, he’s saying things to audiences that he must know are not true. … You have a soft place in your heart for people who are honestly ignorant, but people who are deceitful, that’s a different thing.”

You see...that global warming by his properties is caused by the Democrats going after him...

 

[Osaurus]

You see...that global warming by his properties is caused by the Democrats going after him...

Bad air from China too

 

[zoonation]

Never in doubt:

DeSantis won’t run against him.  No one will.  Save for maybe a couple of completely irrelevant candidates.  He still owns the party.  

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Never in doubt:

DeSantis won’t run against him.  No one will.  Save for maybe a couple of completely irrelevant candidates.  He still owns the party.  

I still expect DeSantis to run. He'd be stupid not to. I just don't know how he'll deal with Trump

 

[The Dude]

Never in doubt:

DeSantis won’t run against him.  No one will.  Save for maybe a couple of completely irrelevant candidates.  He still owns the party.  

I disagree.  Gop has to get out the message that trump can’t win a general.  And they need to start saying things like that now.

whoever trump runs against in the general can now tie him to 1/6 and coordination with white extremists.  Sounds like a loser ticket.

 

[massraider]

He has a billion in debt on his Manhattan buildings alone. He HAS to run. 

 

[themeanmachine]

I really hope DeSantis runs. To me, the #1 goal for 2024 is to ensure Trump is not elected again. I don’t feel confident in the current lineup of Dem options (Biden, Harris, Newsom?) in accomplishing that. I think there are a lot of GOP voters who are tired of Trump’s antics and baggage and would gladly shift over to someone they viewed as both conservative and sane. Personally, based on what I know right now, I’d prefer any of the Dem options to DeSantis. But Trump in the White House again is a nightmare scenario, and if that means DeSantis is the alternative, then so be it. 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

Trump suffers huge fundraising dip, falls below DeSantis for 2022