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Official US Women's soccer thread: *** US u17s lose to NKorea in u17 WC Semi finals. 3rd place game upcoming (8 Viewers)

There are quite a few reasons for this, but the biggest is coaching. Complain all you want about the old guard not having it... who called them in? Who chose to put Rapinoe in at the end of this game? Who used a total of 6 subs in the last 3 games on a team that is widely considered the deepest in the WC?

Vlatko had absolutely zero business still being the coach of this team after the disastrous Olympics we had. This is what you get for rewarding mediocrity.
 
Are you saying that 28 and 29 year old women are gonna be washed up at 32 and 33 years old?

I get it that Morgan is 34 and looks cooked, but she was much better even 2 years ago imo.
 
there just has to be some younger talent out there. Has to be. Take a play from the USMNT and jettison the dinosaurs that are just taking up space and roll the dice on some new players. That should have been done several years ago, but it’s never too late to start.
 
Vlatko had absolutely zero business still being the coach of this team after the disastrous Olympics we had. This is what you get for rewarding mediocrity.
100% if he doesn't resign today; he should be fired in the morning.

He's $5000 for your plane ticket to wherever you wanna go. Byeeeeeeee!
 
Time to find a #9 that can a) finish and b) link up with her teammates.
Horan has all the makings of a target #9 but she plays all over at the club level.

And at 29, this may be her last cycle as well. There is going to be a lot of turn over.

Rose LaVelle is 28 and probably nearing the end as well, but its high time for some turnover. The salaried old guard is way too powerful and made it hard to rotate in youth. They went on a (fully deserved) celebrity exhibition tour playing against the Washington Generals of women's soccer for a full year or so, and good for them for grabbing the cash while it was there for them, but it may have been at the expense of the team this cycle and possibly next.
I took a look at the roster to get a feel for the age.

The following players all have a chance to have played their last World Cup game today:

Morgan (34 and clearly not the player she was)
Rapinoe (38, has already announced her retirement and really should not have taken up a roster spot even now)
Ertz (31)
Horan (29, I think she has one more cycle in her, the Olympics may tell one way or another)
Neaher (35, but as a keeper she could go longer)
Kristie Mewis (32)
Dunn (31 and she had a rough WC according to most who follow the team closely)
O'Hara (34)

That is a lot of players to turn over, especially in contrast to the Men's side where it is only Ream who might age out.
 
Are you saying that 28 and 29 year old women are gonna be washed up at 32 and 33 years old?
This is the age some of them start having kids. That process can have a massive effect on a female's body especially when we are talking this elite level. Some bounce back but some are never the same players again.
 
Are you saying that 28 and 29 year old women are gonna be washed up at 32 and 33 years old?
This is the age some of them start having kids. That process can have a massive effect on a female's body especially when we are talking this elite level. Some bounce back but some are never the same players again.
I get that, but it's not a foregone conclusion.

The roster turnover will be huge. Dunn was really up and down this tournament for me. Still lightning quick and best top gear on the team, but out of position and had bad touches. Offered very little on offense. Never seemed to link up well with Smith.
 
The taeks are pretty misplaced after that game IMO. They played well -- easily well enough to win. The defense was rock solid and they created enough good chances. Sometimes things just don't go your way.

Also, don't feed the trolls.
Disagree. I watched 3 of 4 US games. They did not play well enough to win. They played well enough not to lose.

This is like tiki taka Spain when they had no finishing and could be beaten on a single shot off a counter.
 
There are quite a few reasons for this, but the biggest is coaching. Complain all you want about the old guard not having it... who called them in? Who chose to put Rapinoe in at the end of this game? Who used a total of 6 subs in the last 3 games on a team that is widely considered the deepest in the WC?

Vlatko had absolutely zero business still being the coach of this team after the disastrous Olympics we had. This is what you get for rewarding mediocrity.
The coach will be gone very soon, there should be no question (although this is US Soccer so who knows)

However, I do think almost all of us need to re calibrate what disastrous means going forward given for this team. The US won the bronze medal in the last Olympics. A bronze medal in the next Olympics will likely be far from disastrous for me.
 
The taeks are pretty misplaced after that game IMO. They played well -- easily well enough to win. The defense was rock solid and they created enough good chances. Sometimes things just don't go your way.

Also, don't feed the trolls.

There’s no doubt they coulda shoulda scored at least 10 more goals over the 4 games and the defense was fantastic throughout. I guess it’s an interesting question whether poor finishing is bad luck or something else like coaching. Several shots on goal today went straight at the keeper. I don’t understand XG but am surprised it’s not over 2. To outplay an opponent so thoroughly, then lose on that particular set of penalties is a true gut punch. Also, I’m bitter but the yellow card accumulation / suspension rule in these tournaments continues to be one of the dumbest things in all of sports.
 
Also, I’m bitter but the yellow card accumulation / suspension rule in these tournaments continues to be one of the dumbest things in all of sports.
FIFA has made small adjustments over the years but they have never found the right balance.

While I hate butchers, too many players get marginal yellow cards for being a nano second late and when you can only get two before suspension, it leaves little room for error.

I wonder how it would look if the two was bumped to three cards before suspension..?
 
The taeks are pretty misplaced after that game IMO. They played well -- easily well enough to win. The defense was rock solid and they created enough good chances. Sometimes things just don't go your way.

Also, don't feed the trolls.
In isolation, I think this is fair. But as part of a larger pattern, I think it’s frustrating and indicative of some issues.
 
Not sure if anybody said but WOTM for me was the Swedish keeper - two big saves, especially the one off the bullet from Horan
Worth pointing out that the US turned a total of 1.29 of xG into 1.82xG in the subset that were specifically on goal. i.e. they were considerably more accurate shooting than you'd expect (I think?). Keeper had a very good game.
 
We have always talked about how the US had a large head start on the rest of the world and how that has changed in recent years.

Is there a chance that we are actually going to have to start to play catch up now as the foreign teams are going to use the academy and pro development system models then men use? We know that model is going to be superior to allowing college developing a good amount of our players.

I don't expect us to drop from the top tier of teams but it is an interesting thing to think about. I know we are starting to integrate younger players into the pro environment quicker but it may take the NWSL many years for it to take over from college I think (same as it took MLS years to do).
 
Well, my daughter slept through the first half but stayed downstairs with me. She woke up at halftime, we ate a bunch of kettle corn we got from the coast, I made it all the way until the 2nd OT. I missed the PKs. Daughter watched it all, though. Baller. Sad it's over. Happy for the memory.

Till next.
 
We have always talked about how the US had a large head start on the rest of the world and how that has changed in recent years.

Is there a chance that we are actually going to have to start to play catch up now as the foreign teams are going to use the academy and pro development system models then men use? We know that model is going to be superior to allowing college developing a good amount of our players.

I don't expect us to drop from the top tier of teams but it is an interesting thing to think about. I know we are starting to integrate younger players into the pro environment quicker but it may take the NWSL many years for it to take over from college I think (same as it took MLS years to do).
Yes. Unless there is a major push for MLS to take on the NWSL and invest in the women's game like Europe is doing, then the US will fall behind. This is where the push from the women's team should've been if the desire was for the advancement of the US women's game. Becoming a pro after college versus being in a pro setup from 8-9 years old is just different worlds.
 
We have always talked about how the US had a large head start on the rest of the world and how that has changed in recent years.

Is there a chance that we are actually going to have to start to play catch up now as the foreign teams are going to use the academy and pro development system models then men use? We know that model is going to be superior to allowing college developing a good amount of our players.

I don't expect us to drop from the top tier of teams but it is an interesting thing to think about. I know we are starting to integrate younger players into the pro environment quicker but it may take the NWSL many years for it to take over from college I think (same as it took MLS years to do).
100%. We were ahead of the curve for women's soccer. I expect us to back up to 6-12 ranked over the next few years. Also, we are OLD. I get it's hard to move on from women that dominated. But honestly, a few aren't there primarily for the soccer anymore. They are there to bank some $s, make societal statements, and take a victory tour. That's their choice. But leadership needed to move them aside for the next generation IMO.
 
If you have to ask to be able to call a female athlete attractive, you've already succumbed to the poison that is the noxious side of feminism and the prevailing attitude about female sporting endeavors. Just my four cents on the day.
 
We have always talked about how the US had a large head start on the rest of the world and how that has changed in recent years.

Is there a chance that we are actually going to have to start to play catch up now as the foreign teams are going to use the academy and pro development system models then men use? We know that model is going to be superior to allowing college developing a good amount of our players.

I don't expect us to drop from the top tier of teams but it is an interesting thing to think about. I know we are starting to integrate younger players into the pro environment quicker but it may take the NWSL many years for it to take over from college I think (same as it took MLS years to do).
Yes. Unless there is a major push for MLS to take on the NWSL and invest in the women's game like Europe is doing, then the US will fall behind. This is where the push from the women's team should've been if the desire was for the advancement of the US women's game. Becoming a pro after college versus being in a pro setup from 8-9 years old is just different worlds.
I don't foresee MLS ever taking this on. I think the NWSL will have to adapt as quick as possible but that requires lots and lots of capital. They are still adjusting to having to pay all the players now that US Soccer is not covering the big names any more.

It could be a rough transition. Hopefully the quality will be there in enough capacity to to sustain a top 5ish type team. I still expect the US to pop from time to time but expecting it every time is almost certainly gone now.
 
Oh, and by the way. They did care. That's why they pussyfooted around the subject

Because of people like FreeBaGel hell-bent on, if not the lecture, at least compliance.
 
Well, my daughter slept through the first half but stayed downstairs with me. She woke up at halftime, we ate a bunch of kettle corn we got from the coast, I made it all the way until the 2nd OT. I missed the PKs. Daughter watched it all, though. Baller. Sad it's over. Happy for the memory.

Till next.
you and your daughter will have many more I am sure. You will almost certainly get a chance relatively soon to see a home World Cup game with her.
 
Not sure if anybody said but WOTM for me was the Swedish keeper - two big saves, especially the one off the bullet from Horan.

The difference in the match, for sure. That's why I don't think there is anything to ultimately feel bad about in this game. It's not even like some of the other games where they had possession but didn't create great chances or didn't finish. They did what would normally be required to finish, the keeper just made a few truly tremendous saves. You can't really ask Horan to do more than what she did with that ball. That thing goes in 9 out of 10 times, and against maybe every other keeper in the tournament.

Even the missed PKs. They went for it. If they'd just tried to hope the keeper guessed wrongly and slotted the ball in calmly they would have missed just as many if not more because the keeper guessed right on I think 4 out of 7 of the PKs (maybe 5 out of 7?). So really trying to hit the corner paid off as they put those handful in the net even though the keeper guessed right.

It's just soccer. It's a low scoring game with naturally high variance. Sometimes the ball deflects and inch this way or an inch that way, or goes 1mm over the line. Sucks, but they played hard, they put it all together, just didn't work out.

It was an uphill battle for the team from the get-go. If they celebrated too little people said they didn't care. If they celebrated too much people said they were too arrogant. Ultimately they played hard, played passionately, played well, and just went up against a keeper playing the game of her life and came out on the wrong end of a few bad breaks. It's a bummer, but it was always going to be a tough run anyway with the path they had in front of them and the team just not having the talent/skill advantage they've had in the past when facing similar circumstances. We can definitely be proud of the way they played in this game.
 
There are quite a few reasons for this, but the biggest is coaching. Complain all you want about the old guard not having it... who called them in? Who chose to put Rapinoe in at the end of this game? Who used a total of 6 subs in the last 3 games on a team that is widely considered the deepest in the WC?

Vlatko had absolutely zero business still being the coach of this team after the disastrous Olympics we had. This is what you get for rewarding mediocrity.
I don’t understand how they played 4 matches without Cook or Sanchez getting a single minute. IMO Cook at CB, Ertz in for Sullivan at DM and Sanchez in an attacking midfield role gives them a better chance to win and also gives WC experience to 2 players that should be around in 4 years.
 
Ertz said she is now done with national team play and has retired from the international game.

Hopefully in the same way Messi retired after a heartbreaking loss, then changed his mind later.
I agree. Sometimes making these decisions in the heat of the moment is not the best idea.

Although as a new mom, she may have made it before the tournament even started. Hard to know as she did not specify.
 
Not sure if anybody said but WOTM for me was the Swedish keeper - two big saves, especially the one off the bullet from Horan.

The difference in the match, for sure. That's why I don't think there is anything to ultimately feel bad about in this game. It's not even like some of the other games where they had possession but didn't create great chances or didn't finish. They did what would normally be required to finish, the keeper just made a few truly tremendous saves. You can't really ask Horan to do more than what she did with that ball. That thing goes in 9 out of 10 times, and against maybe every other keeper in the tournament.

Even the missed PKs. They went for it. If they'd just tried to hope the keeper guessed wrongly and slotted the ball in calmly they would have missed just as many if not more because the keeper guessed right on I think 4 out of 7 of the PKs (maybe 5 out of 7?). So really trying to hit the corner paid off as they put those handful in the net even though the keeper guessed right.

It's just soccer. It's a low scoring game with naturally high variance. Sometimes the ball deflects and inch this way or an inch that way, or goes 1mm over the line. Sucks, but they played hard, they put it all together, just didn't work out.

It was an uphill battle for the team from the get-go. If they celebrated too little people said they didn't care. If they celebrated too much people said they were too arrogant. Ultimately they played hard, played passionately, played well, and just went up against a keeper playing the game of her life and came out on the wrong end of a few bad breaks. It's a bummer, but it was always going to be a tough run anyway with the path they had in front of them and the team just not having the talent/skill advantage they've had in the past when facing similar circumstances. We can definitely be proud of the way they played in this game.
I disagree. Yes, the SWE goalie played very well. Player of the match, for sure. Was it a world class performance for the ages? No. The US simply did not make the dangerous attacking plays that score multiple goals. They didn't do it vs. NED, nor POR, nor SWE. The outcome was deserved and it was not simply due to variance.

The team was tactically inflexible and the personnel management was poor. This outcome is on the players and the coach. Rapinoe should have not unretired to play in this tournament. Her game was a net negative and took a roster spot away from a player that could have actually contributed to a win. That is a decision she'll have to live with.
 
Seeing early estimates of USA 1.29-0.80 Sweden for xG. Seemed a lot better than that to me.
I just saw that as well. I expected a little over 2 in xG for the US. Maybe the chances they created were not as good as I thought on first viewing.
Agreed, off the top of my head, they had 2 point blank shots right at mousivic plus the header that went just over the crossbar.

Though, ultimately, there were probably only two or three other truly legit chances despite some much sound and fury on the attack.
 
The odd thing today is why anyone would come into a soccer thread for the first time ever after a horrible loss, feigning interest and knowledge but really just tilting at windmills that are long dead

The windmill tilting is at mirages. That the U.S. Women clamored for equal pay and got it and then exited in the first round of the playoff stage in the World Cup is no mirage, friend.

Funny, people are trying to use big words, concepts, or calling me tim and nothing seems to really be in place nor succeeding.
Does the fact that they lost today mean that they don’t deserve the money in and of itself?

Or is this more like schadenfreude because you don’t agree with their arguments for getting paid more? I don’t know enough to know whether they really deserved it, though I know there were a number of legal and contractual issues well beyond simple gender inequality.
 
Well, my daughter slept through the first half but stayed downstairs with me. She woke up at halftime, we ate a bunch of kettle corn we got from the coast, I made it all the way until the 2nd OT. I missed the PKs. Daughter watched it all, though. Baller. Sad it's over. Happy for the memory.

Till next.
you and your daughter will have many more I am sure. You will almost certainly get a chance relatively soon to see a home World Cup game with her.

For sure. We watched the 2019 run together when she was 7 and hopefully when she's 15, she still talks to me and will watch games with me. Sad it's over - some of these US players are plastered all over her walls. She dressed up like Alex Morgan for school and did a project on her. We had a soccer team called The Rapinoes for a season. These have been our heros to root for together so it's a bummer to watch the sun set but a lot of lessons to be learned.

Go England for now!
 
Remember when the men's team won a world cup .... Good times

Did I do that right?
 
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Does the fact that they lost today mean that they don’t deserve the money in and of itself?

No, and I never said they don't deserve the money. One of my posts specifically addresses that. The revenue they create might be enough to justify equality in pay. In fact, I don't know if they don't deserve more than the men. If the demand is there and the revenue streams support it, then by all means. I doubt it based on the fact that it's a singular, unsustainable phenomenon and the women's pro leagues fold all the time in the U.S., but that's for number crunchers.

Or is this more like schadenfreude because you don’t agree with their arguments for getting paid more?

No schadenfruede, either, because I don't care enough to take this misfortune and make it a positive thing for me. I can't stress that enough. But it's certainly a comment-worthy occurrence, and I did.
 
I don’t know enough to know whether they really deserved it, though I know there were a number of legal and contractual issues well beyond simple gender inequality.
Here is the rough skinny

1) A handful of years back, many on the US Women's national team could not sustain a career in soccer financially. The NWSL simply did not have the money to pay them a wage that was better than what they could do with their college degrees.

2) US Soccer was fearful that they were going to lose a large amount of national team players who would go on to other things

3) US Soccer reached back into their history and came up with a similar plan that they used for the men back in the early 90's, before MLS started. They decided to pay the NWSL salaries of the US National team players and while no one was getting rich, the national team players were given a salary that was far above the other NWSL players and allowed them to continue as professional soccer players.

4) A few years pass by and the women start to want equal pay for US national team games. On the surface, they were getting paid far less for National Team duty than the men were. But every time negotiations were held, US Soccer kept pointing out that they were paying their salaries and that the salaries had to factor into their over all compensation from US Soccer when comparing what they gave the men (which did not include any salary support).

5) They fought this out until they ended up in court in which the women lost, due to the salaries.

6) The women appealed and lost again

7) This is when they decided the only way to win was to use the court of public opinion and spread the gospel of equal pay.

8) US Soccer stood firm and the fight went on for way too long.

9) Eventually the deal US Soccer cut with the NWSL was set to expire. Once the salaries were off the US Soccer books, the two sides quickly agreed because US Soccer could finally give the women the exact same deal they gave the men.

10) This almost settled the whole thing, except for one MAJOR obstacle. The women also wanted the same bonus's the men would get from the WC's. This was a huge problem because US Soccer does not provide those bonuses, they come directly from FIFA. FIFA gives higher bonuses to the men than the women because they base it off of revenue.

11) This caused another prolonged fight until a compromise was made. The men decided to pool all of their bonus WC money that they would earn with the bonus money that the women would earn from the WC and then split it evenly. I believe we are the only federation that does this but I would guess it may become much more common in the future.

This ended the years long battle. It was very unfortunate because millions of dollars were wasted on lawyers when from the absolute jump every one could see the salaries were never going to be ignored when considering the compensation.

This is obviously a 50,000 foot view and there were many smaller steps in between but this should give you a rough outline of the process.
 
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Has Rapino's PK landed yet?

I’m indifferent to the Rapino hate/love but she shouldn’t have been playing
Totally agree. She had no business playing. From what I remember, 3 corners that never got more 3-4 feet off the ground and at near post, badly miss pk, several passes to no body. The only passes she connected were back to defenders. Coach should be fired.
 
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Totally agree. She had no business playing. From what I remember, 3 corners that never got more 3-4 off the ground and at near post, badly miss pk, several passes to no body. The only passes she connected were back to defenders. Coach should be fired.
The odd thing about Rapinoe is that the coach was not afraid to exclude other stars from the past (like Christian Press) who were even younger than Rapinoe and showed similar signs of no longer being their best. Press was hurt at the time of the WC but she had also been left out of recent rosters when healthy.

Ironically the one reason he may have rostered Rapinoe was due to her experience in pk shoot outs.
 
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The one thing no one can really hang their hat on is injuries.

Yes, the US would have been stronger (likely much stronger) if Rose, Mallory Swanson and Sauerbrunn were all healthy but almost every team had important players injured. In fact some of the best players in the world are not fully healthy for this WC sadly.

In a normal year, Rose, Kerr (Aussie) and Putellas (Spain) would have been contenders for top 11 in the tournament but none of the 3 have had an impact (yet) on the WC.
 
And how sick was Rodman? I hated they took her off because I felt she could provide a moment of magic but if she was spent then I get it.
She was clearly the best player on the field even sick. So I was pleplexed she was the first one subbed.
Even though her and Smith may have been one cycle to early to be starters, they are likely going to have to build around these two going forward. The biggest issue right now is finding a new #9 (a problem that took the men years to solve on their side as we went pretty much the entire cycle chucking things at the wall and hoping they would stick).
 

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