Official US Women's soccer thread: Gold Cup Final- US 1 - Brazil 0! (3 Viewers)

[Charlie Steiner]

Not talking about the political side of the equation here, though I will say that what I haven't liked about this iteration of the USWNT is the hubris. Watching them celebrate each.and.every.one.of.the.13.goals.they.scored.against.Thailand in the last WC was ridiculous. It has just seemed to me that the traditional work rate and cohesion that I'm used to through the personnel changes has been replaced by individuality. Crossing the ball into the box and waiting for something to happen is exhibit A of what I mean, and I saw too many cases of a player just turning and shooting blindly inside the 18.

I don't like kicking people when they're down, and I also don't like holding back when I feel I see something so clearly and don't want to be misunderstood.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I was happy for Sam Mewis who was a key player in 2019 but didn't get off the bench this time around until very late this game, and her only touch of the ball this entire world cup was that banger.

That was Kristie, Sam's sister. Sam was not on this roster (injures, surgeries etc)

 

[rockaction]

I like that he keeps posting and then deleting, then posting and editing his posts. He clearly knows it does not belong here while we are just trying to talk about the game and the program but can't help himself.

Two other people have said something similar to the issue I'm getting at. I'm trying to raise an issue without cheapness or silliness and trying to find the correct words for thoughts that I have. It's called a message board and allows for tangential thoughts. It belongs right smack here, man. Don't kid yourself.

Use your words my friend. If you have a point to make, fkn make it. This is women's soccer so you should feel free to drop the pseudo intellectual schtick we all know and love.

Nothing pseudo about it, friend. It's quite clear exactly what I'm trying to say.

It's a passion for white suburbanites that dabble in American feminism and self back-patting and almost nobody else.

And don't threaten me Al, I'll kick your ***. - Weird Science

I say that so you don't think I'm responding to your curses and somewhat bullying and condescending post. I already answered upthread.

 

[3C's]

The world has bought into the queen of American farces and is catching up in the display of charades.

I’ve read this 5 times and don’t even know what it means.

https://i.imgflip.com/2nx1eg.jpg

 

[rockaction]

Here comes the hissing.

Sounds like steam escaping.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I’ve read this 5 times and don’t even know what it means.

That men's and women's soccer could never be equal in any respect if we're being honest.

That the outpouring of emotion over USWNT has something to do with suburban, white female politics rather than pure sport. Its popularity and resonance with white suburbanites was always very socio-political at its core.

That the world reacts totally different to notions of male and female equality across the globe than America and Scandinavia does, but in this case at least gins up and sends second-rate teams with second-rate support and funding to compete with American women

Yet this world is able to draw on soccer tradition and best the Americans occasionally because American suburbia will, in the future, be hard-pressed to compete with the world's pool of underclass athletes (meaning poor and rough and tumble) and the world soccer structures in future soccer endeavors.

That the whole thing is a big balloon that's fated soon to pop.

'Cause if honey I'm the bottom, you're the top!

OK thanks. You should know that it would be very easy to find hundreds of thousands of words written on the internet and elsewhere over the last decade or so discussing this topic and debating some of these same tired points. The socio economic aspects of the sport are well-known. We know soccer is still largely a pay-to-play sport in this country. The US Women's dominance on the international stage is also easily understood by all who care to look into it. Of course anyone who watches sports knows the women's game is far inferior to men's soccer. We also watch high school and college sports knowing the play is far inferior to the professional versions. As for the rest of the world, I wonder from your comments if you actually know much about the current state of club soccer in Europe and elsewhere?

 

[AAABatteries]

Jesus - can we talk soccer please

 

[AAABatteries]

The flip side of the result is that Sweden didn’t look great - I would expect Japan to beat them but who knows.

 

[TLEF316]

Big soccer guy but I certainly wasn't going to wake up at the crack of dawn to watch the women's team play.

Political/equal pay stuff aside, the arrogance of this group has turned me off to them for a while. Obviously Rapinoe is the ring-leader here and it will be much easier to root for them once she's gone. To the winner goes the spoils and they've won for a long time. You win....you celebrate and you get famous. That's how it works.

But they enjoyed distinct advantages over the rest of the world (Title IX gave them a MASSIVE leg up over every other country) and never seemed to appreciate that. The countries with the potential resources and talent base to challenge us really didn't care about women's sports for a long time and are now starting to. Big time women's European club football is starting to level the playing field.

Is this the new world (where we'll just be one of 7-8 good teams that occasionally wins it) or just a group in transition (That held onto a few pieces for too long) that had a bad couple of weeks finishing? Guess we'll see. I have a feeling its the former. Europe is starting to try now.

 

[AAABatteries]

And how sick was Rodman? I hated they took her off because I felt she could provide a moment of magic but if she was spent then I get it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

rock is the new tim. He is gonna charge into whatever thread he feels like and overtake it whether anyone likes it or not.

I woke up just in time to see the end of PKs. Brutal way to go out.

 

[rockaction]

Of course anyone who watches sports knows the women's game is far inferior to men's soccer.

That's not really my main point. Saying that makes one a killjoy or somebody who can't restrain themselves. It's like a turd in the punch bowl, which actually says something about the religiosity of which I speak. When truth gets sidelined and is considered tacky or abhorrent, then there are several things at play, but I'll spare everybody the exegesis.

It's the sociopolitical lens through which it is viewed that I find more interesting, and where that intertwines with both the workings and perception of the utter hugeness that is the USWNT.

We also watch high school and college sports knowing the play is far inferior to the professional versions.

And we don't pay them the same rate as the professionals by definition, nor do they clamor for it as a political act.

As for the rest of the world, I wonder from your comments if you actually know much about the current state of club soccer in Europe and elsewhere?

At best, I dabble in understanding.

 

[AAABatteries]

Is this the new world (where we'll just be one of 7-8 good teams that occasionally wins it) or just a group in transition

I think things are more bleak for USWNT than say the men’s basketball. Soccer is so ingrained in the culture in these other countries that now that they put more in to it it was inevitable that we would come back to the pack.

 

[rockaction]

rock is the new tim. He is gonna charge into whatever thread he feels like and overtake it whether anyone likes it or not.

Not really. I typed one sentence. It became this through response. Why don't you go listen to some Lou Reed and get your head straight, Ghost Rider?

Candy says...

 

[rockaction]

And I'm really not going into equal pay too much because given the hugeness of the women's team, they may have very well deserved it. I'm not sure how the monetary breakdowns work, and I really don't care. It's more the indignation and perception among the laity of suburban females cheering for their sisters that I care about. That's the interesting thing about this.

 

[rockaction]

But they enjoyed distinct advantages over the rest of the world (Title IX gave them a MASSIVE leg up over every other country) and never seemed to appreciate that. The countries with the potential resources and talent base to challenge us really didn't care about women's sports for a long time and are now starting to. Big time women's European club football is starting to level the playing field.

There are two separate issues here.

One is gratitude and attitude. Title IX and court interpretations put America so far ahead of other countries that other countries in the World Cup seemed littered with American players (see: the Nigerian woman and fifty-two other American citizens who represented other countries). Even with this in tow, the American players saw fit to protest more against the political and sporting system that had propped them up (artificially, really, through acts such as cutting more popular men's programs like baseball and other sports). Some realized the importance of Title IX, but the lavish praise on its equality demands by the players (like Julie Foudy) was off-putting, at least to someone like me, who watched his baseball program at school get cut for Title IX reasons. Then the clamor for equal pay as a socio-political thing just went further along in the endeavor. We litter the world with soccer players. We're the country who cares about it. My question is why?

Back to suburban sociopolitics, of course.

One is future competence. Will suburbia and the pay-to-play way win the day? As Cletus intoned, I probably don't know well enough, but I would imagine the European clubs and other countries taking this a little more seriously will narrow the gap significantly. Then again, I'm not sure about that. I think that other countries' different versions of feminism and equality and rights will really determine whether or not they catch up to the Americans. Right now, the USWNT has a distinct political outlook among its members and supporters, and that can safely be construed as an equality-based feminism from the Second Wave of feminism in the United States. They're still in the pages of Ms. Magazine, frankly. One wonders what a liberation movement would look like and how it would intersect with sport in other countries. Time will tell. I made a comment early in the tournament about the U.S. citizen playing for Nigeria. One could not, given Islamism on the rise in that country, have imagined a more ironic pairing than U.S. Women's Soccer and the Nigerians. Just jaw-dropping.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Well I guess it is our fault for having so many soccer threads. This was bound to happen from people who could care less about the sport and just want to ruin threads.

 

[Capella]

I’ve read this 5 times and don’t even know what it means.

That men's and women's soccer could never be equal in any respect if we're being honest.

That the outpouring of emotion over USWNT has something to do with suburban, white female politics rather than pure sport. Its popularity and resonance with white suburbanites was always very socio-political at its core.

That the world reacts totally different to notions of male and female equality across the globe than America and Scandinavia does, but in this case at least gins up and sends second-rate teams with second-rate support and funding to compete with American women

Yet this world is able to draw on soccer tradition and best the Americans occasionally because American suburbia will, in the future, be hard-pressed to compete with the world's pool of underclass athletes (meaning poor and rough and tumble) and the world soccer structures in future soccer endeavors.

That the whole thing is a big balloon that's fated soon to pop.

'Cause if honey I'm the bottom, you're the top!

Sir this is a Wendy’s.

 

[rockaction]

Well I guess it is our fault for having so many soccer threads. This was bound to happen from people who could care less about the sport and just want to ruin threads.

Oh, yes. That's exactly what it is. You do tell it, good sir. I only humbly request a crumb of bread and a cup of water.

 

[rockaction]

Sir this is a Wendy’s.

How weird to talk about the phenomenon that is U.S. Women's Soccer in a U.S. Women's Soccer thread.

I'd rather you and @NewlyRetired just stamped your feet and hissed instead of gaslighting.

 

[Capella]

I’ve read this 5 times and don’t even know what it means.

That men's and women's soccer could never be equal in any respect if we're being honest.

That the outpouring of emotion over USWNT has something to do with suburban, white female politics rather than pure sport. Its popularity and resonance with white suburbanites was always very socio-political at its core.

That the world reacts totally different to notions of male and female equality across the globe than America and Scandinavia does, but in this case at least gins up and sends second-rate teams with second-rate support and funding to compete with American women

Yet this world is able to draw on soccer tradition and best the Americans occasionally because American suburbia will, in the future, be hard-pressed to compete with the world's pool of underclass athletes (meaning poor and rough and tumble) and the world soccer structures in future soccer endeavors.

That the whole thing is a big balloon that's fated soon to pop.

'Cause if honey I'm the bottom, you're the top!

Still don’t know what this is really about. Women like watching women’s soccer? What’s the problem? I like it too. The men’s team is better than woman? Who cares?

Millions watch college football where the play sucks most of the time and is grossly inferior to the pros. I don’t get the beef but like others I agree it shouldn’t be in this thread.

 

[rockaction]

We don't agree so we'll call your posts either inappropriate or overbearing.

But whatever we do, let's not rebut the points intelligently.

 

[El Floppo]

Rock... Start your own thread and vent.

 

[Capella]

Sir this is a Wendy’s.

How weird to talk about the phenomenon that is U.S. Women's Soccer in a U.S. Women's Soccer thread.

I'd rather you and @NewlyRetired just stamped your feet and hissed instead of gaslighting.

But you’re not discussing women’s soccer you’re discussing some made-up beef you have with it that is hard to follow.

 

[rockaction]

Still don’t know what this is really about. Women like watching women’s soccer? What’s the problem? I like it too. The men’s team is better than woman? Who cares?

A gross mischaracterization of the argument.

I don’t get the beef but like others I agree it shouldn’t be in this thread.

This thread doesn't exist but for the conditions I address.

 

[rockaction]

***Official US Women's Soccer Thread*** sees fit to not address equal pay, comparison to men, pipeline issues, or sociopolitical thoughts behind its very existence.

This is ******** gaslighting no matter how many people of the proper socio-political persuasion do it.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Rock... Start your own thread and vent.

That is not the tim way. rock wouldn't be the new tim if he didn't insist on dominating the existing thread.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Well I guess it is our fault for having so many soccer threads. This was bound to happen from people who could care less about the sport and just want to ruin threads.

We also debated and discussed the equal pay issue years ago when it was relevant and still somewhat interesting. The odd thing today is why anyone would come into a soccer thread for the first time ever after a horrible loss, feigning interest and knowledge but really just tilting at windmills that are long dead.

 

[rockaction]

Huh. PK?

From July 19. 2023. I've been here before @CletiusMaximus.

Every World Cup. Here.

 

[Capella]

***Official US Women's Soccer Thread*** sees fit to not address equal pay, comparison to men, pipeline issues, or sociopolitical thoughts behind its very existence.

This is ******** gaslighting no matter how many people of the proper socio-political persuasion do it.

Why would we discuss comparison to men????? I feel like I’m going crazy.

 

[rockaction]

That is not the tim way. rock wouldn't be the new tim if he didn't insist on dominating the existing thread.

Yeah, I dominate all current threads like tim did because of this one. Good show. Hiss away, Matilda.

 

[rockaction]

Why would we discuss comparison to men????? I feel like I’m going crazy.

In the context of equal pay, why wouldn't you? You're certainly not crazy, just being obtuse. You have a way of looking at things. That's fine. This shouldn't threaten it so much. Let people reading decide.

 

[Capella]

*Ohio State loses to Alabama*


Well like I’ve been saying, they would never beat the Chiefs.

 

[rockaction]

The odd thing today is why anyone would come into a soccer thread for the first time ever after a horrible loss, feigning interest and knowledge but really just tilting at windmills that are long dead

The windmill tilting is at mirages. That the U.S. Women clamored for equal pay and got it and then exited in the first round of the playoff stage in the World Cup is no mirage, friend.

Funny, people are trying to use big words, concepts, or calling me tim and nothing seems to really be in place nor succeeding.

 

[3C's]

Musovic was pretty stellar today. And hopefully it's okay to say, she's quite pretty too.

 

[rockaction]

*Ohio State loses to Alabama*


Well like I’ve been saying, they would never beat the Chiefs.

Never, ever even implied that as part of the argument.

Now you're really gaslighting. Tell you what. Stop trying to summarize my arguments for others. I've already summarized them effectively enough for the reader.

 

[AAABatteries]

This thread has become worse than Rapinoe’s PK. Have a good Sunday.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Well I guess it is our fault for having so many soccer threads. This was bound to happen from people who could care less about the sport and just want to ruin threads.

We also debated and discussed the equal pay issue years ago when it was relevant and still somewhat interesting. The odd thing today is why anyone would come into a soccer thread for the first time ever after a horrible loss, feigning interest and knowledge but really just tilting at windmills that are long dead.

I found those conversations interesting and enlightening, but that was because we had the facts and understood the nuance of the situation. We learned from each other like we have for almost 15 years in the soccer threads.

 

[rockaction]

Serious questions

USWNT vs Men’s u19 squad... who wins?

Now this is a guy that asked that question. Not me.

And he, too, got hissed and gaslighted.

 

[NewlyRetired]

This thread has become worse than Rapinoe’s PK. Have a good Sunday.

And shocking that it would be someone's personal politics that again ruins another thread.

 

[rockaction]

but that was because we had the facts and understood the nuance of the situation

Exactly what facts and nuance did you have about the situation that's missing in speculative questions about the socio-politics behind the USWNT and their popularity.

Tell me, the benighted one, what's missing.

 

[rockaction]

And shocking that it would be someone's personal politics that again ruins another thread.

Uh, there has been no discussion about how I feel about it. It'd probably be as varied as one would imagine.

You're really gaslighting now, bub. Hey, here's a thing. Why don't you stay away from commenting about thread politics and concentrate on building your own arguments?

You're now attributing a lack of knowledge or discretion to me that I don't particularly care for. I don't think you know as much as you think, and I don't think you're responding to me. You're responding to a caricature of my argument.

Gaslighting.

 

[Capella]

*Ohio State loses to Alabama*


Well like I’ve been saying, they would never beat the Chiefs.

Never, ever even implied that as part of the argument.

Now you're really gaslighting. Tell you what. Stop trying to summarize my arguments for others. I've already summarized them effectively enough for the reader.

I’m just trading your straw man argument for mine.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

And I'm really not going into equal pay too much because given the hugeness of the women's team, they may have very well deserved it. I'm not sure how the monetary breakdowns work, and I really don't care. It's more the indignation and perception among the laity of suburban females cheering for their sisters that I care about. That's the interesting thing about this.

It is honestly a much more complicated issue than can easily be addressed here. We went into it in great detail a year or so ago when the lawsuit settled. The fact is that the men won the lawsuit but the women got paid, at least in the short term but really only the few who belong to the plaintiff class. The women certainly used political and media means to their end, but it was never about anything more than money. The simple fact most casual observers have to understand is that the top men make their millions through professional contracts with their clubs and media sponsorships. For most of the US national team men, their national team pay is an afterthought at most. Those options are for the most part foreclosed for the great majority of professional women soccer players, for obvious reasons. The great majority of professional women soccer players make about as much as a public school teacher. The very very few who are able to play for the US national team took their shot and made some money, so good for them I guess. The outcome didn't benefit women's professional soccer in our country or elsewhere in my opinion, but it certainly enriched the few plaintiffs in that lawsuit. In that respect, it was exactly like most all other lawsuits and labor disputes.

I live in the city and don't have much contact with suburban females so can't speak to their view on any of this. I was drinking bourbon on my neighbor's porch until a few hours before kickoff this morning and while we all agreed we'd try to stay up and watch the game, I'm certain none of us did. I spent about an hour earlier today skimming through the game on replay and enjoyed it despite the disastrous result.

 

[culdeus]

Smith and Morgan looked old and lost. How is the pipeline this thin we ship rapinoe there to honk corners and pks?

Isn’t Smith like 23?

Whoa, didn't know. These girls that have spent half their lives in the sun are hard to read age wise.

 

[The Z Machine]

They played well on defense and did well in the midfield, but the team lacked danger. Sure they had shots, even some on target, but the team generated very few really dangerous plays, where the xG was above 0.5. Where were the tap ins? Where were the melees in the box? Where was the beating a defender on the dribble and hitting a trailing teammate? Sure Smith and Rodman and Williams got around the corner a few times, but their passes were errant or no one was crashing the back post.

Morgan is done. She can't get separation from her mark and isn't big enough to dominate in the air. Time to find a #9 that can a) finish and b) link up with her teammates.

Rapinoe is beyond done. She doesn't have the strength to put in dangerous free kicks. Putting her in was a disgrace.

The user of subs and roster was horrendous. Sure the midfielders played well and yes the offense was generating some shots, but it was obvious that the tactics and players weren't working. Did they really not have a like for like for Morgan? Was Ashley Sanchez such as a liability on defense that they didn't need a different look in the midfield at the 80 minute mark?

There's obviously a missing group of 25-30 year olds in the pool and this was the obvious outcome.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Time to find a #9 that can a) finish and b) link up with her teammates.

Horan has all the makings of a target #9 but she plays all over at the club level.

And at 29, this may be her last cycle as well. There is going to be a lot of turn over.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

rock is the new tim

Uhhhhhh…..no

 

[The Z Machine]

Time to find a #9 that can a) finish and b) link up with her teammates.

Horan has all the makings of a target #9 but she plays all over at the club level.

And at 29, this may be her last cycle as well. There is going to be a lot of turn over.

That would have been an interesting sub at the 80 minute mark. Pull Horan into a target forward role, leave Smith and Williams on the wings. Bring Sanchez in to try and unlock / unsettle the defense.

Better than wheeling Rapinoe out there to under hit set pieces, show a huge degradation in touch and reaction time, and royally **** up a potentially winning penalty.

So long, and thanks for the memories, Ms Rapinoe.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Time to find a #9 that can a) finish and b) link up with her teammates.

Horan has all the makings of a target #9 but she plays all over at the club level.

And at 29, this may be her last cycle as well. There is going to be a lot of turn over.

Rose LaVelle is 28 and probably nearing the end as well, but its high time for some turnover. The salaried old guard is way too powerful and made it hard to rotate in youth. They went on a (fully deserved) celebrity exhibition tour playing against the Washington Generals of women's soccer for a full year or so, and good for them for grabbing the cash while it was there for them, but it may have been at the expense of the team this cycle and possibly next.