Phenoms going under (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

I doubt this meets a legal definition of a trust fund. Some of the money paid was for his profit and business expenses. If there is one place Mike could get in trouble, it is how he described it though and if there is proof he meant to deceive.

 

[cstu]

It's been painful watching you guys take this from point A (reality) to point B (assumptions, guesses, and outright making things up).

As a completely unbiased party who has read most of the pages in this thread, here's what I've concluded to be the most likely situation and outcome:

The guy was a good commissioner, but a moron. He screwed up royally by thinking he could create his own platform and keep the costs down. He's probably going broke because of it. He'll never spend a second in jail for this, he'll just lose his business. No relaxing on an island somewhere and no getting violated in prison.

None of you will hire a private investigator, there will be no class action lawsuit. If it makes you all feel better, continue to say that he'll be prosecuted, he'll go to prision, karma will come back and get him, unicorns will trample his family, etc. Just be aware, that's only a coping mechanism and not based in reality.

I suggest chalking this up as a loss and moving on. Beyond filing chargeback claims with your credit cards and maybe getting $50 here and there if you're lucky, no 'justice' will come of this. Relieve your cognitive dissonance in other ways. Go to the gym or buy a pinata. Rambling on for another 50 pages based only on speculation and guesses isn't accomplishing anything.

Why are you buying the web developer story? The first thing any con man is going to do is make up some story about having spent the money on building the business.

 

[Moonlight]

http://ago.mo.gov/newsreleases/2011/AG_Koster_sues_fantasy_sports_operator/

Attorney General Koster sues fantasy sports operator for consumer fraudJefferson City, Mo. – Attorney General Chris Koster today filed suit against Dustin Ashby and his company, Gridiron Fantasy Sports, headquartered in Alparetta, Georgia, for allegedly defrauding Missouri consumers by failing to pay out the cash and other prizes they had promised to the winning fantasy league owners.

Koster said Ashby ran the World Championship of Fantasy Football and the World Championship of Fantasy Baseball both in Missouri and throughout the country, operating from an office in Chesterfield, Missouri. Participants in the fantasy football and baseball contests would pay entrance fees for a chance to win pre-set cash prizes.

Koster said prior to the start of the 2010 fantasy football season, the defendants promised to pay cash awards to up to 331 participants, totaling a minimum of $389,500, based on the performance of the individual fantasy teams. For instance, the person whose team scored the most fantasy points in each league during the regular season was guaranteed a cash prize of $5,000, and there were up to 100 leagues, based on the number of participants. At the end of the 2010 season, the defendants notified the winners, told them the amount they had won, and promised to pay by February 15, 2011. The defendants even went on ESPN during Super Bowl XLV and presented the grand prize winner with an oversized check for $300,000, which was not fully honored.

While the investigation is ongoing, Koster has discovered that the defendants have failed to pay out at least $151,261 of the promised prize money. Koster’s suit is alleging that the defendants were using the fantasy baseball entrance fees to pay the fantasy football winners and the football entrance fees to pay the baseball winners. As a result, they could not guarantee prize-winning amounts, as they had done, since the payouts would be dependent on the number of participants. The suit also alleges the defendants used some of the entrance fee money for other non-contest purposes, including paying off loans.

Koster is asking the court to issue preliminary and permanent injunctions prohibiting further violations of the law; to require the defendants to provide full restitution to victims and pay all court and investigative costs; and to require the defendant to pay the state a civil penalty and an amount equal to 10 percent of total restitution ordered.

 

[cstu]

None of you will hire a private investigator, there will be no class action lawsuit. If it makes you all feel better, continue to say that he'll be prosecuted, he'll go to prision, karma will come back and get him, unicorns will trample his family, etc. Just be aware, that's only a coping mechanism and not based in reality.

I don't think they will but 700x$20 is $14k to hire an investigator.

 

[TheWalk84]

http://ago.mo.gov/newsreleases/2011/AG_Koster_sues_fantasy_sports_operator/

Attorney General Koster sues fantasy sports operator for consumer fraudJefferson City, Mo. – Attorney General Chris Koster today filed suit against Dustin Ashby and his company, Gridiron Fantasy Sports, headquartered in Alparetta, Georgia, for allegedly defrauding Missouri consumers by failing to pay out the cash and other prizes they had promised to the winning fantasy league owners.

Koster said Ashby ran the World Championship of Fantasy Football and the World Championship of Fantasy Baseball both in Missouri and throughout the country, operating from an office in Chesterfield, Missouri. Participants in the fantasy football and baseball contests would pay entrance fees for a chance to win pre-set cash prizes.

Koster said prior to the start of the 2010 fantasy football season, the defendants promised to pay cash awards to up to 331 participants, totaling a minimum of $389,500, based on the performance of the individual fantasy teams. For instance, the person whose team scored the most fantasy points in each league during the regular season was guaranteed a cash prize of $5,000, and there were up to 100 leagues, based on the number of participants. At the end of the 2010 season, the defendants notified the winners, told them the amount they had won, and promised to pay by February 15, 2011. The defendants even went on ESPN during Super Bowl XLV and presented the grand prize winner with an oversized check for $300,000, which was not fully honored.

While the investigation is ongoing, Koster has discovered that the defendants have failed to pay out at least $151,261 of the promised prize money. Koster’s suit is alleging that the defendants were using the fantasy baseball entrance fees to pay the fantasy football winners and the football entrance fees to pay the baseball winners. As a result, they could not guarantee prize-winning amounts, as they had done, since the payouts would be dependent on the number of participants. The suit also alleges the defendants used some of the entrance fee money for other non-contest purposes, including paying off loans.

Koster is asking the court to issue preliminary and permanent injunctions prohibiting further violations of the law; to require the defendants to provide full restitution to victims and pay all court and investigative costs; and to require the defendant to pay the state a civil penalty and an amount equal to 10 percent of total restitution ordered.

BOOM!

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

It's been painful watching you guys take this from point A (reality) to point B (assumptions, guesses, and outright making things up).

As a completely unbiased party who has read most of the pages in this thread, here's what I've concluded to be the most likely situation and outcome:

The guy was a good commissioner, but a moron. He screwed up royally by thinking he could create his own platform and keep the costs down. He's probably going broke because of it. He'll never spend a second in jail for this, he'll just lose his business. No relaxing on an island somewhere and no getting violated in prison.

None of you will hire a private investigator, there will be no class action lawsuit. If it makes you all feel better, continue to say that he'll be prosecuted, he'll go to prision, karma will come back and get him, unicorns will trample his family, etc. Just be aware, that's only a coping mechanism and not based in reality.

I suggest chalking this up as a loss and moving on. Beyond filing chargeback claims with your credit cards and maybe getting $50 here and there if you're lucky, no 'justice' will come of this. Relieve your cognitive dissonance in other ways. Go to the gym or buy a pinata. Rambling on for another 50 pages based only on speculation and guesses isn't accomplishing anything.

I have no money owed to me here. However, you look a fool for your comments. If it's so painful then puff away with yourself. I don't think anyone cares about your opinion.

If I did have a dog in this fight I would not rest until this criminal is finished. My money is on him gambling it away.

 

[JohnnyU]

I doubt this meets a legal definition of a trust fund. Some of the money paid was for his profit and business expenses. If there is one place Mike could get in trouble, it is how he described it though and if there is proof he meant to deceive.

see post 1606. I'm pretty sure Mike broke the law. Pretty much along the same lines as Phenoms.

 

[JohnnyU]

It's been painful watching you guys take this from point A (reality) to point B (assumptions, guesses, and outright making things up).

As a completely unbiased party who has read most of the pages in this thread, here's what I've concluded to be the most likely situation and outcome:

The guy was a good commissioner, but a moron. He screwed up royally by thinking he could create his own platform and keep the costs down. He's probably going broke because of it. He'll never spend a second in jail for this, he'll just lose his business. No relaxing on an island somewhere and no getting violated in prison.

None of you will hire a private investigator, there will be no class action lawsuit. If it makes you all feel better, continue to say that he'll be prosecuted, he'll go to prision, karma will come back and get him, unicorns will trample his family, etc. Just be aware, that's only a coping mechanism and not based in reality.

I suggest chalking this up as a loss and moving on. Beyond filing chargeback claims with your credit cards and maybe getting $50 here and there if you're lucky, no 'justice' will come of this. Relieve your cognitive dissonance in other ways. Go to the gym or buy a pinata. Rambling on for another 50 pages based only on speculation and guesses isn't accomplishing anything.

perhaps you should read post 1606 also. It is very possible to get these guys.

 

[ROCKET]

I'm not surprised in the least about the MO case being pursued by the AG there. These guys have fleeced people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars and will face the music for it. The Phenoms debacle is the same exact scenario.]

Like I posted earlier other businesses have so many different aspects to them that people can steal the money, bankrupt them and walk away. This business model isn't complex enough for that. If Mike isn't able to prove he invested the $$ into the business he is likely screwed. People will likely never get a dime but at least they will have the satisfaction of seeing the guy go down. It may take a while but he will pay a price eventually.

There are smart con men who get away with stuff like this and then there are idiots like the fools that ran these leagues who thought they could just pocket the prize money and walk away. The paper trail will be real easy for the authorities to trace. They are screwed one way or the other, financially, criminally or both.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

http://ago.mo.gov/newsreleases/2011/AG_Koster_sues_fantasy_sports_operator/

Attorney General Koster sues fantasy sports operator for consumer fraudJefferson City, Mo. – Attorney General Chris Koster today filed suit against Dustin Ashby and his company, Gridiron Fantasy Sports, headquartered in Alparetta, Georgia, for allegedly defrauding Missouri consumers by failing to pay out the cash and other prizes they had promised to the winning fantasy league owners.

Koster said Ashby ran the World Championship of Fantasy Football and the World Championship of Fantasy Baseball both in Missouri and throughout the country, operating from an office in Chesterfield, Missouri. Participants in the fantasy football and baseball contests would pay entrance fees for a chance to win pre-set cash prizes.

Koster said prior to the start of the 2010 fantasy football season, the defendants promised to pay cash awards to up to 331 participants, totaling a minimum of $389,500, based on the performance of the individual fantasy teams. For instance, the person whose team scored the most fantasy points in each league during the regular season was guaranteed a cash prize of $5,000, and there were up to 100 leagues, based on the number of participants. At the end of the 2010 season, the defendants notified the winners, told them the amount they had won, and promised to pay by February 15, 2011. The defendants even went on ESPN during Super Bowl XLV and presented the grand prize winner with an oversized check for $300,000, which was not fully honored.

While the investigation is ongoing, Koster has discovered that the defendants have failed to pay out at least $151,261 of the promised prize money. Koster’s suit is alleging that the defendants were using the fantasy baseball entrance fees to pay the fantasy football winners and the football entrance fees to pay the baseball winners. As a result, they could not guarantee prize-winning amounts, as they had done, since the payouts would be dependent on the number of participants. The suit also alleges the defendants used some of the entrance fee money for other non-contest purposes, including paying off loans.

Koster is asking the court to issue preliminary and permanent injunctions prohibiting further violations of the law; to require the defendants to provide full restitution to victims and pay all court and investigative costs; and to require the defendant to pay the state a civil penalty and an amount equal to 10 percent of total restitution ordered.

BOOM!

Looks like it's a civil, not a criminal action.

 

[Marauder]

Does anybody know if there has been any resolution in that MO case? That article is from three years ago. It would be nice to know if a judgement was made and if there has been any restitution.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

http://ago.mo.gov/newsreleases/2011/AG_Koster_sues_fantasy_sports_operator/

Attorney General Koster sues fantasy sports operator for consumer fraudJefferson City, Mo. – Attorney General Chris Koster today filed suit against Dustin Ashby and his company, Gridiron Fantasy Sports, headquartered in Alparetta, Georgia, for allegedly defrauding Missouri consumers by failing to pay out the cash and other prizes they had promised to the winning fantasy league owners.

Koster said Ashby ran the World Championship of Fantasy Football and the World Championship of Fantasy Baseball both in Missouri and throughout the country, operating from an office in Chesterfield, Missouri. Participants in the fantasy football and baseball contests would pay entrance fees for a chance to win pre-set cash prizes.

Koster said prior to the start of the 2010 fantasy football season, the defendants promised to pay cash awards to up to 331 participants, totaling a minimum of $389,500, based on the performance of the individual fantasy teams. For instance, the person whose team scored the most fantasy points in each league during the regular season was guaranteed a cash prize of $5,000, and there were up to 100 leagues, based on the number of participants. At the end of the 2010 season, the defendants notified the winners, told them the amount they had won, and promised to pay by February 15, 2011. The defendants even went on ESPN during Super Bowl XLV and presented the grand prize winner with an oversized check for $300,000, which was not fully honored.

While the investigation is ongoing, Koster has discovered that the defendants have failed to pay out at least $151,261 of the promised prize money. Koster’s suit is alleging that the defendants were using the fantasy baseball entrance fees to pay the fantasy football winners and the football entrance fees to pay the baseball winners. As a result, they could not guarantee prize-winning amounts, as they had done, since the payouts would be dependent on the number of participants. The suit also alleges the defendants used some of the entrance fee money for other non-contest purposes, including paying off loans.

Koster is asking the court to issue preliminary and permanent injunctions prohibiting further violations of the law; to require the defendants to provide full restitution to victims and pay all court and investigative costs; and to require the defendant to pay the state a civil penalty and an amount equal to 10 percent of total restitution ordered.

BOOM!

Looks like it's a civil, not a criminal action.

This is a template of how legal proceedings against Phenoms could look like. But I'm with Warrior. I don't see anybody taking the initiative to do this unless the Utah Attorney General does so under some pressure.

GRIDIRON Lawsuit

 

[wakelawyer]

Does anybody know if there has been any resolution in that MO case? That article is from three years ago. It would be nice to know if a judgement was made and if there has been any restitution.

Default Judgment was entered in August 2012.

http://haysconsulting.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Hays-Gridiron-State-of-Mo.-Judgment-Fully-Executed-8-2-12_50240121.pdf

The judgment provides for injunctive relief, $126,776 to be paid into a fund for restitution (this amount is based on entry fee, not winnings), a $46,000 civil penalty, and another penalty of 10% of the restitution amount ($12,677.60). For those non-attorneys, a default judgment is entered if an answer is not filed.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Does anybody know if there has been any resolution in that MO case? That article is from three years ago. It would be nice to know if a judgement was made and if there has been any restitution.

Default Judgment was entered in August 2012.

http://haysconsulting.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Hays-Gridiron-State-of-Mo.-Judgment-Fully-Executed-8-2-12_50240121.pdf

The judgment provides for injunctive relief, $126,776 to be paid into a fund for restitution (this amount is based on entry fee, not winnings), a $46,000 civil penalty, and another penalty of 10% of the restitution amount ($12,677.60). For those non-attorneys, a default judgment is entered if an answer is not filed.

You look up Dustin Ashby and that dude was all over poker websites at the same time WCOFF went under. No surprise.

 

[AAABatteries]

Warrior is an Unlucky alias?

 

[riggidy]

I just filed a dispute through wellsfargo ... My deposit was on 8/10 for $200. The rep said this is pretty straight forward and he felt that the fee reversal should go right through. I pointed them at both the phenomsff website and this forum post. The rep also mentioned that he was involved in successfully reversing many deposits for the full tilt poker fiasco a few years ago.

I was in 2 $100 auction leagues. I won 1st place along with top victory points in one league and 2nd place in another. At this point I'd consider my entry fee back a win.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Hey guys. I'm sorry you all got swindled. Good luck next season.

 

[Slider]

Warrior is an Unlucky alias?

Relative...

 

[Dr. Octopus]

a default judgment is entered if an answer is not filed.

Not easy to collect on, but at least it's something.

 

[SacramentoBob]

a default judgment is entered if an answer is not filed.

Not easy to collect on, but at least it's something.

No more difficult to collect on than a non default judgment legally speaking.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

a default judgment is entered if an answer is not filed.

Not easy to collect on, but at least it's something.

No more difficult to collect on than a non default judgment legally speaking.

Well, usually there's a reason the defendant didn't appear in the case, but in a general sense sure.

 

[jon_mx]

Assuming Mike does file bankruptcy, you can't legally proceed with a civil case. And if you got a judgement, there is no money to collect. Most of the money is gone. These legal maneuvers would be fruitless endeavors. As you saw above, the case was a civil one not a criminal one. Perhaps if Mike does not file bankruptcy, then there would be reason to pursue action as there is probably some money to go after, just not nearly enough to pay everyone.

 

[Dragon1952]

It's been painful watching you guys take this from point A (reality) to point B (assumptions, guesses, and outright making things up).

As a completely unbiased party who has read most of the pages in this thread, here's what I've concluded to be the most likely situation and outcome:

The guy was a good commissioner, but a moron. He screwed up royally by thinking he could create his own platform and keep the costs down. He's probably going broke because of it. He'll never spend a second in jail for this, he'll just lose his business. No relaxing on an island somewhere and no getting violated in prison.

None of you will hire a private investigator, there will be no class action lawsuit. If it makes you all feel better, continue to say that he'll be prosecuted, he'll go to prision, karma will come back and get him, unicorns will trample his family, etc. Just be aware, that's only a coping mechanism and not based in reality.

I suggest chalking this up as a loss and moving on. Beyond filing chargeback claims with your credit cards and maybe getting $50 here and there if you're lucky, no 'justice' will come of this. Relieve your cognitive dissonance in other ways. Go to the gym or buy a pinata. Rambling on for another 50 pages based only on speculation and guesses isn't accomplishing anything.

Yes, definitely nice to finally see a post with no assumptions or guesses

 

[MissionCoach]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't
follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller
to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the
Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make
their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You
opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was
automatically closed.

 

[TheWalk84]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't

follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller

to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the

Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make

their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You

opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was

automatically closed.

Garbage… They are saying as long as the crook can dodge you or make you think you are getting what you paid for for 45 days, he can keep your money and tell you to go f yourself…

I bet if someone ripped off paypal and they found it on day 46, they would have no problem finding a solution to get their money back… but the fact is, they do not care about crooks/scams/fraud, as long as they are not the ones left holding the bag, they are ok with it..

makes me kind of sick..

 

[jon_mx]

Pay Pal is pretty clear that they do not allow their service to be used in connection with gambling in the US. So Otis a double whammy. The45 day policy and the gambling policy.

 

[MissionCoach]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't

follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller

to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the

Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make

their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You

opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was

automatically closed.

Garbage… They are saying as long as the crook can dodge you or make you think you are getting what you paid for for 45 days, he can keep your money and tell you to go f yourself…

I bet if someone ripped off paypal and they found it on day 46, they would have no problem finding a solution to get their money back… but the fact is, they do not care about crooks/scams/fraud, as long as they are not the ones left holding the bag, they are ok with it..

makes me kind of sick..

The whole thing stinks from start to end.

For all intents and purposes there was no reason to believe the service would not be completed up to or on day 45.

I am going to pursue this issue with PayPal...as well as with Visa...nothing to lose at this point but time.

 

[Dragon1952]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't

follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller

to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the

Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make

their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You

opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was

automatically closed.

Garbage… They are saying as long as the crook can dodge you or make you think you are getting what you paid for for 45 days, he can keep your money and tell you to go f yourself…

I bet if someone ripped off paypal and they found it on day 46, they would have no problem finding a solution to get their money back… but the fact is, they do not care about crooks/scams/fraud, as long as they are not the ones left holding the bag, they are ok with it..

makes me kind of sick..

The whole thing stinks from start to end.

For all intents and purposes there was no reason to believe the service would not be completed up to or on day 45.

I am going to pursue this issue with PayPal...as well as with Visa...nothing to lose at this point but time.

Paypal is not going to refund money spent on gambling, and they consider fantasy sports gambling. They don't allow League Safe transactions either way either which are basically the same thing. And they won't allow payments to and from fantasy leagues period unless you disguise the transactions (e.g. not referring to fantasy sports in the message boxes). You can get away with mentioning fantasy sports but if they notice you accepting payments they can disable your account The only reason that they were probably allowing Paypal payments and payouts to/from Phenoms is they didn't realize what the funds were for. Now, with everyone complaining, maybe they will be more careful which screws us all in the long run.

 

[TheWalk84]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't

follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller

to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the

Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make

their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You

opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was

automatically closed.

Garbage… They are saying as long as the crook can dodge you or make you think you are getting what you paid for for 45 days, he can keep your money and tell you to go f yourself…

I bet if someone ripped off paypal and they found it on day 46, they would have no problem finding a solution to get their money back… but the fact is, they do not care about crooks/scams/fraud, as long as they are not the ones left holding the bag, they are ok with it..

makes me kind of sick..

The whole thing stinks from start to end.

For all intents and purposes there was no reason to believe the service would not be completed up to or on day 45.

I am going to pursue this issue with PayPal...as well as with Visa...nothing to lose at this point but time.

Paypal is not going to refund money spent on gambling, and they consider fantasy sports gambling. They don't allow League Safe transactions either way either which are basically the same thing. And they won't allow payments to and from fantasy leagues period unless you disguise the transactions (e.g. not referring to fantasy sports in the message boxes). You can get away with mentioning fantasy sports but if they notice you accepting payments they can disable your account The only reason that they were probably allowing Paypal payments and payouts to/from Phenoms is they didn't realize what the funds were for. Now, with everyone complaining, maybe they will be more careful which screws us all in the long run.

It is interesting that they can view it as gambling, but federal law doesn't…

 

[TheWalk84]

Maybe they think it is ok to murder someone.. screw what federal law says, they get to be the judge of what is acceptable and what isn't

 

[Dragon1952]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't

follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller

to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the

Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make

their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You

opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was

automatically closed.

Garbage… They are saying as long as the crook can dodge you or make you think you are getting what you paid for for 45 days, he can keep your money and tell you to go f yourself…

I bet if someone ripped off paypal and they found it on day 46, they would have no problem finding a solution to get their money back… but the fact is, they do not care about crooks/scams/fraud, as long as they are not the ones left holding the bag, they are ok with it..

makes me kind of sick..

The whole thing stinks from start to end.

For all intents and purposes there was no reason to believe the service would not be completed up to or on day 45.

I am going to pursue this issue with PayPal...as well as with Visa...nothing to lose at this point but time.

Paypal is not going to refund money spent on gambling, and they consider fantasy sports gambling. They don't allow League Safe transactions either way either which are basically the same thing. And they won't allow payments to and from fantasy leagues period unless you disguise the transactions (e.g. not referring to fantasy sports in the message boxes). You can get away with mentioning fantasy sports but if they notice you accepting payments they can disable your account The only reason that they were probably allowing Paypal payments and payouts to/from Phenoms is they didn't realize what the funds were for. Now, with everyone complaining, maybe they will be more careful which screws us all in the long run.

It is interesting that they can view it as gambling, but federal law doesn't…

Paypal has an image to uphold....the federal government doesn't

 

[TheWalk84]

This is the written response I received from PayPal:

When you open a dispute in the Resolution Center, you must follow some

specific guidelines. We automatically close or defer cases that don't

follow these guidelines.

If you’re not satisfied, we encourage you to work directly with the seller

to resolve the problem (you’ll find their contact information on the

Transaction Details page). Most sellers welcome the opportunity to make

their buyers happy.

You have to open a dispute within 45 days of the transaction date. You

opened your dispute more than 45 days after the transaction date, so it was

automatically closed.

Garbage… They are saying as long as the crook can dodge you or make you think you are getting what you paid for for 45 days, he can keep your money and tell you to go f yourself…

I bet if someone ripped off paypal and they found it on day 46, they would have no problem finding a solution to get their money back… but the fact is, they do not care about crooks/scams/fraud, as long as they are not the ones left holding the bag, they are ok with it..

makes me kind of sick..

The whole thing stinks from start to end.

For all intents and purposes there was no reason to believe the service would not be completed up to or on day 45.

I am going to pursue this issue with PayPal...as well as with Visa...nothing to lose at this point but time.

Paypal is not going to refund money spent on gambling, and they consider fantasy sports gambling. They don't allow League Safe transactions either way either which are basically the same thing. And they won't allow payments to and from fantasy leagues period unless you disguise the transactions (e.g. not referring to fantasy sports in the message boxes). You can get away with mentioning fantasy sports but if they notice you accepting payments they can disable your account The only reason that they were probably allowing Paypal payments and payouts to/from Phenoms is they didn't realize what the funds were for. Now, with everyone complaining, maybe they will be more careful which screws us all in the long run.

It is interesting that they can view it as gambling, but federal law doesn't…

Paypal has an image to uphold....the federal government doesn't

Touche'

That has to be in the top 10 of best replies ever..

Literally laughed out loud

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

MFL leagues are bought through PayPal. And the payouts for winners are being handled through paypal.

 

[JimmyJabroni]

Paypal accepts payments to and from Draftkings and Fanduel.

 

[Dragon1952]

MFL leagues are bought through PayPal. And the payouts for winners are being handled through paypal.

True but it is possible to get accounts locked if they find out. Although with millions of transactions per month it's probably hard to get caught.

 

[Dragon1952]

Paypal accepts payments to and from Draftkings and Fanduel.

That is indeed a double standard to allow those but not allow League Safe and other fantasy related transactions. Could be they've relaxed overall recently.

 

[sPiKeRs]

I don't get it. You guys chose to play in a fantasy football contest where the prize pool was not secure and now you think Paypal should be on the hook to cover your entry fees?

B/c Paypal and credit card companies are suppose to cover you for any fraud. That is one of the services that they provide as a protection for consumers. Fraud is exactly what happened to Phenoms.

For the people that have not filed complaints to the appropriate authorities, shame on you.

 

[Warrior]

I don't get it. You guys chose to play in a fantasy football contest where the prize pool was not secure and now you think Paypal should be on the hook to cover your entry fees?

B/c Paypal and credit card companies are suppose to cover you for any fraud.

False. They don't cover you for fantasy football losses. Fraud or not. It's actually against their terms to even use Paypal for fantasy sports.

 

[stbugs]

I don't get it. You guys chose to play in a fantasy football contest where the prize pool was not secure and now you think Paypal should be on the hook to cover your entry fees?

B/c Paypal and credit card companies are suppose to cover you for any fraud.

False. They don't cover you for fantasy football losses. Fraud or not. It's actually against their terms to even use Paypal for fantasy sports.

I agree with this. You used PayPal to enter the fantasy league and you played the entire season. You were cheated of winnings. If he had taken the money and you couldn't log in then PayPal should have refunded it, but you received what you paid for and the fraud was the prize from playing.

 

[JohnnyU]

I don't get it. You guys chose to play in a fantasy football contest where the prize pool was not secure and now you think Paypal should be on the hook to cover your entry fees?

B/c Paypal and credit card companies are suppose to cover you for any fraud.

False. They don't cover you for fantasy football losses. Fraud or not. It's actually against their terms to even use Paypal for fantasy sports.

This is a true statement.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I don't get it. You guys chose to play in a fantasy football contest where the prize pool was not secure and now you think Paypal should be on the hook to cover your entry fees?

B/c Paypal and credit card companies are suppose to cover you for any fraud.

False. They don't cover you for fantasy football losses. Fraud or not. It's actually against their terms to even use Paypal for fantasy sports.

This is a true statement.

True. Additionally, PayPal is not classified as a bank in the US, even though they should be. In my experience, this makes their fraud policy and buyer/seller protections pretty much worthless.

 

[jlrhall]

yup, won 2 of 6 and a 3 butttttttt u know the rest

 

[boutrous11]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

 

[riggidy]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

Mine as well.....

I then logged into my phenomsff account and my winnings have been posted. The withdrawal link has been disabled so the winnings just sit and tease me.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

Mine as well.....

I then logged into my phenomsff account and my winnings have been posted. The withdrawal link has been disabled so the winnings just sit and tease me.

ouch, that's brutal, now he's just taunting everyone.

 

[cstu]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

Mine as well.....

I then logged into my phenomsff account and my winnings have been posted. The withdrawal link has been disabled so the winnings just sit and tease me.

ouch, that's brutal, now he's just taunting everyone.

If someone kills this guy you want me on the jury.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

Mine as well.....

I then logged into my phenomsff account and my winnings have been posted. The withdrawal link has been disabled so the winnings just sit and tease me.

It is possible that if there any legitimacy to his claims (and I realize that's a big "if"), he may have done this as part of establishing rightful creditors for a bankruptcy proceeding.

This actually seems like a positive thing.

 

[jon_mx]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

Mine as well.....

I then logged into my phenomsff account and my winnings have been posted. The withdrawal link has been disabled so the winnings just sit and tease me.

It is possible that if there any legitimacy to his claims (and I realize that's a big "if"), he may have done this as part of establishing rightful creditors for a bankruptcy proceeding.

This actually seems like a positive thing.

Yeah, i don't get it. If he does not complete the calculations then the bankruptcy court will have no idea how to split the money. He is doing his job and people get pissed.

 

[JohnnyU]

lol why did the commisioner log in to one of my phenoms leagues 15 hours ago?

Mine as well.....

I then logged into my phenomsff account and my winnings have been posted. The withdrawal link has been disabled so the winnings just sit and tease me.

It is possible that if there any legitimacy to his claims (and I realize that's a big "if"), he may have done this as part of establishing rightful creditors for a bankruptcy proceeding.

This actually seems like a positive thing.

Yeah, i don't get it. If he does not complete the calculations then the bankruptcy court will have no idea how to split the money. He is doing his job and people get pissed.

Why are you bending over backwards to defend this crook? One might think you are Mike or someone close to him. You are not endearing yourself to a lot of folks who lost money to this guy. I'm not one of them, but I surely understand their grief. You might want to back off a little bit, because folks on this board have a great memory.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Just logged in to the site to see my $546 in winnings (not including another $100 in deposits) staring at me teasing me from a broken retrieve funds link. I went to the "My Leagues" page and all of my 2014 leagues have been erased, but the

Iink is there still for 2013 leagues, so I could backdoor find my way back to this year's leagues. Mike's been checking in lately. I wonder why?