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Princeton Considers Whitewashing History; Students Appeased (1 Viewer)

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/us-usa-race-princeton-idUSKCN0T91BM20151120

Princeton University has pledged to consider renaming buildings dedicated to former U.S. President Woodrow Wilson, the latest U.S. campus effort to quell student complaints of racism by tweaking names, titles and mascots.

The deal top administrators signed late on Thursday with student demonstrators ended a 32-hour sit-in outside Princeton President Christopher Eisgruber's office.

Protest organizers at the renowned Ivy League university in New Jersey called on Princeton to remove Wilson's name and image from its public spaces, as well as from the university's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.

Wilson, the 28th U.S. president from 1913 to 1921, was a leader of the Progressive Movement but also supported racial segregation, which was legal and part of public policy at the time in the United States, particularly in southern states.

Segregation was banned under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Eisgruber said in a statement that Princeton appreciated the "willingness of the students to work with us to find a way forward".

Student organizers from the Black Justice League also want Princeton to institute a cultural competency and diversity training program and to designate space on campus for "cultural affinity" groups.

Calls for the removal of Wilson's name from Princeton, where he served as president from 1902 to 1910, arose during a wave of demonstrations at U.S. colleges over the treatment of minority students. Some were aimed at showing solidarity with students protesting the failure of administrators at the University of Missouri and Yale University to respond seriously to complaints of racial incidents on their campuses.

Changing U.S. attitudes and values involving race, gender and other issues are a flashpoint not just on campuses but in cities and towns across the country. Historical figures honored for their accomplishments with statues, statehouse portraits and dedicated streets and buildings are now being viewed through a more critical lens.

Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., last weekend said it would rename two buildings that bore the names of school presidents who oversaw the sale of slaves to settle campus debt in the 1800s.

At Amherst College in Massachusetts, students and faculty are pushing for the small, elite liberal arts college to drop as its unofficial mascot Lord Jeff Amherst, who commanded British forces in North America during the French and Indian War and who also is believed to have once given blankets containing the smallpox virus to Native Americans. College trustees will discuss the issue at their meeting in January, Amherst spokeswoman Caroline Hanna said on Friday.
So Woodrow Wilson served as president at Princeton. He served as President as the United States. He gets some buildings named after him. Seems natural and reasonable. But since he wasn't progressive enough, some students are offended and want him scrubbed from campus. Just another example of silly outrage from one of our college campuses :thumbup:

 
Have to give the university some credit in that they basically just pledged to look into doing all the stuff the protestors were demanding. So basically the school does PR damage control without actually agreeing to do anything real.

After having some professional interaction with big university administrators, I can tell you that PR trumps just about everything.

 
It is not whitewashing history to remove Wilson's name. He was an awful President, a terrible man and probably the worst racist we've ever had in high public office. It would be a good thing IMO to remove anything honoring this guy who was an embarrassment to our nation.

 
And what were Wilson's accomplishments, again? Let's see...created the income tax, re-segregation of multiple government agencies, centralized banking, and involving us in WW1 (after campaigning in 1916 on the slogan "He kept us out of war").

 
And what were Wilson's accomplishments, again? Let's see...created the income tax, re-segregation of multiple government agencies, centralized banking, and involving us in WW1 (after campaigning in 1916 on the slogan "He kept us out of war").
Oh there's a lot more. Invaded Mexico.

Sedition Act- arrested anti war protestors.

Supported lynching in South.

Actively supported Jim Crow and ties to the KKK.

Helped write Versailles Treaty (which helped lead to Nazi Germany).

Tried to force democracy all over the world without constraints, leading to dictatorships all over Africa and the Middle East.

 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/us-usa-race-princeton-idUSKCN0T91BM20151120

Princeton University has pledged to consider renaming buildings dedicated to former U.S. President Woodrow Wilson, the latest U.S. campus effort to quell student complaints of racism by tweaking names, titles and mascots.

The deal top administrators signed late on Thursday with student demonstrators ended a 32-hour sit-in outside Princeton President Christopher Eisgruber's office.

Protest organizers at the renowned Ivy League university in New Jersey called on Princeton to remove Wilson's name and image from its public spaces, as well as from the university's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.

Wilson, the 28th U.S. president from 1913 to 1921, was a leader of the Progressive Movement but also supported racial segregation, which was legal and part of public policy at the time in the United States, particularly in southern states.

Segregation was banned under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Eisgruber said in a statement that Princeton appreciated the "willingness of the students to work with us to find a way forward".

Student organizers from the Black Justice League also want Princeton to institute a cultural competency and diversity training program and to designate space on campus for "cultural affinity" groups.

Calls for the removal of Wilson's name from Princeton, where he served as president from 1902 to 1910, arose during a wave of demonstrations at U.S. colleges over the treatment of minority students. Some were aimed at showing solidarity with students protesting the failure of administrators at the University of Missouri and Yale University to respond seriously to complaints of racial incidents on their campuses.

Changing U.S. attitudes and values involving race, gender and other issues are a flashpoint not just on campuses but in cities and towns across the country. Historical figures honored for their accomplishments with statues, statehouse portraits and dedicated streets and buildings are now being viewed through a more critical lens.

Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., last weekend said it would rename two buildings that bore the names of school presidents who oversaw the sale of slaves to settle campus debt in the 1800s.

At Amherst College in Massachusetts, students and faculty are pushing for the small, elite liberal arts college to drop as its unofficial mascot Lord Jeff Amherst, who commanded British forces in North America during the French and Indian War and who also is believed to have once given blankets containing the smallpox virus to Native Americans. College trustees will discuss the issue at their meeting in January, Amherst spokeswoman Caroline Hanna said on Friday.
So Woodrow Wilson served as president at Princeton. He served as President as the United States. He gets some buildings named after him. Seems natural and reasonable. But since he wasn't progressive enough, some students are offended and want him scrubbed from campus. Just another example of silly outrage from one of our college campuses :thumbup:
Another example of the US swirling the bowl.

 
And what were Wilson's accomplishments, again? Let's see...created the income tax, re-segregation of multiple government agencies, centralized banking, and involving us in WW1 (after campaigning in 1916 on the slogan "He kept us out of war").
Oh there's a lot more.Invaded Mexico.

Sedition Act- arrested anti war protestors.

Supported lynching in South.

Actively supported Jim Crow and ties to the KKK.

Helped write Versailles Treaty (which helped lead to Nazi Germany).

Tried to force democracy all over the world without constraints, leading to dictatorships all over Africa and the Middle East.
To be fair, what he wanted out of the Versailles Treaty is nothing near what was actually in the Versailles Treaty.

 
And what were Wilson's accomplishments, again? Let's see...created the income tax, re-segregation of multiple government agencies, centralized banking, and involving us in WW1 (after campaigning in 1916 on the slogan "He kept us out of war").
Oh there's a lot more.Invaded Mexico.

Sedition Act- arrested anti war protestors.

Supported lynching in South.

Actively supported Jim Crow and ties to the KKK.

Helped write Versailles Treaty (which helped lead to Nazi Germany).

Tried to force democracy all over the world without constraints, leading to dictatorships all over Africa and the Middle East.
To be fair, what he wanted out of the Versailles Treaty is nothing near what was actually in the Versailles Treaty.
That part is true, but he still went along with Lloyd George and Clemenceau in the end. And when reasonable Republican members of Congress tried to object he tried to dismiss them as idiots. Though I am generally a fan of Barack Obama, one of my criticisms of himIs that he tends to act like Woodrow Wilson in his hubris and contempt for the opposition in Congress. Wilson was the worst at this in our history though, except perhaps for Andrew Johnson.

 
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Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone. He was no slouch at Princeton either -- he instituted many educational reforms that went on to adopted by many other colleges.

 
Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone. He was no slouch at Princeton either -- he instituted many educational reforms that went on to adopted by many other colleges.
They can honor whomever they like. And students and outsiders can put pressure on the school to change that.
 
It is not whitewashing history to remove Wilson's name. He was an awful President, a terrible man and probably the worst racist we've ever had in high public office. It would be a good thing IMO to remove anything honoring this guy who was an embarrassment to our nation.
And what were Wilson's accomplishments, again? Let's see...created the income tax, re-segregation of multiple government agencies, centralized banking, and involving us in WW1 (after campaigning in 1916 on the slogan "He kept us out of war").
Wow, I am a critic of Wilson' presidency but he doesn't deserve this.

 
And what were Wilson's accomplishments, again? Let's see...created the income tax, re-segregation of multiple government agencies, centralized banking, and involving us in WW1 (after campaigning in 1916 on the slogan "He kept us out of war").
Oh there's a lot more.Invaded Mexico.

Sedition Act- arrested anti war protestors.

Supported lynching in South.

Actively supported Jim Crow and ties to the KKK.

Helped write Versailles Treaty (which helped lead to Nazi Germany).

Tried to force democracy all over the world without constraints, leading to dictatorships all over Africa and the Middle East.
To be fair, what he wanted out of the Versailles Treaty is nothing near what was actually in the Versailles Treaty.
That part is true, but he still went along with Lloyd George and Clemenceau in the end. And when reasonable Republican members of Congress tried to object he tried to dismiss them as idiots. Though I am generally a fan of Barack Obama, one of my criticisms of himIs that he tends to act like Woodrow Wilson in his hubris and contempt for the opposition in Congress. Wilson was the worst at this in our history though, except perhaps for Andrew Johnson.
Yea, the more time goes by the more I think Woodrow Wilson is the nearest President in our history to Obama.

 
Vilifying people who were a product of their times just seems... misplaced. I couldn't care less how terrible of a person he was or how terrible of a President. History is history, warts and all.

Who's next? Remove Thomas Jefferson from UVA because he owned slaves?

 
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Seems a bit unfair to apply today's sensibilities on topics such as racial and gender equality to historical figures.
Gender equality maybe. And race maybe for the founding fathers or before the Civil War. But none of that applies to Wilson. He didn't maintain segregation; he imposed it. He didn't refuse to do anything about Jim Crow, he tried to enforce it. His racism was active and plenty of people in his day condemned him for it.
 
Seems a bit unfair to apply today's sensibilities on topics such as racial and gender equality to historical figures.
Gender equality maybe. And race maybe for the founding fathers or before the Civil War. But none of that applies to Wilson. He didn't maintain segregation; he imposed it. He didn't refuse to do anything about Jim Crow, he tried to enforce it. His racism was active and plenty of people in his day condemned him for it.
Screw this, you and I believe probably agree a lot on Wilson from what I recall, but the renaming and sandblasting of names from our history is a sick disease, we need to stop it.

 
Seems a bit unfair to apply today's sensibilities on topics such as racial and gender equality to historical figures.
Gender equality maybe. And race maybe for the founding fathers or before the Civil War. But none of that applies to Wilson. He didn't maintain segregation; he imposed it. He didn't refuse to do anything about Jim Crow, he tried to enforce it. His racism was active and plenty of people in his day condemned him for it.
Screw this, you and I believe probably agree a lot on Wilson from what I recall, but the renaming and sandblasting of names from our history is a sick disease, we need to stop it.
i don't see why. Nobody's removing him from the history books. You seem to be associating this sort of thing in your mind to Stalin removing Trotsky's name from contributing to the Revolution. But it's not like that at all. Wilson will always be remembered but he doesn't deserve to be honored.
 
Seems a bit unfair to apply today's sensibilities on topics such as racial and gender equality to historical figures.
Gender equality maybe. And race maybe for the founding fathers or before the Civil War. But none of that applies to Wilson. He didn't maintain segregation; he imposed it. He didn't refuse to do anything about Jim Crow, he tried to enforce it. His racism was active and plenty of people in his day condemned him for it.
Screw this, you and I believe probably agree a lot on Wilson from what I recall, but the renaming and sandblasting of names from our history is a sick disease, we need to stop it.
i don't see why. Nobody's removing him from the history books. You seem to be associating this sort of thing in your mind to Stalin removing Trotsky's name from contributing to the Revolution. But it's not like that at all. Wilson will always be remembered but he doesn't deserve to be honored.
Exactly.

History is not being sandblasted. His many "accomplishments" are not being removed from history books, wiki or any other source. Those who wish to learn more about his presidency will have just as much information as they did before if Princeton agrees that he shouldn't continued to be honored.

 
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It is not whitewashing history to remove Wilson's name. He was an awful President, a terrible man and probably the worst racist we've ever had in high public office. It would be a good thing IMO to remove anything honoring this guy who was an embarrassment to our nation.
Oh shut the #### up.

 
I am surprised Princeton would voluntarily do this to quiet down some students, unless the administration themselves already hated the school's history with Wilson. Princeton turns away thousands of applicants per year, pretty sure that wouldn't change if they didn't appease the current student body.

 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/20/us-usa-race-princeton-idUSKCN0T91BM20151120

Princeton University has pledged to consider renaming buildings dedicated to former U.S. President Woodrow Wilson, the latest U.S. campus effort to quell student complaints of racism by tweaking names, titles and mascots.

The deal top administrators signed late on Thursday with student demonstrators ended a 32-hour sit-in outside Princeton President Christopher Eisgruber's office.

Protest organizers at the renowned Ivy League university in New Jersey called on Princeton to remove Wilson's name and image from its public spaces, as well as from the university's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.

Wilson, the 28th U.S. president from 1913 to 1921, was a leader of the Progressive Movement but also supported racial segregation, which was legal and part of public policy at the time in the United States, particularly in southern states.

Segregation was banned under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Eisgruber said in a statement that Princeton appreciated the "willingness of the students to work with us to find a way forward".

Student organizers from the Black Justice League also want Princeton to institute a cultural competency and diversity training program and to designate space on campus for "cultural affinity" groups.

Calls for the removal of Wilson's name from Princeton, where he served as president from 1902 to 1910, arose during a wave of demonstrations at U.S. colleges over the treatment of minority students. Some were aimed at showing solidarity with students protesting the failure of administrators at the University of Missouri and Yale University to respond seriously to complaints of racial incidents on their campuses.

Changing U.S. attitudes and values involving race, gender and other issues are a flashpoint not just on campuses but in cities and towns across the country. Historical figures honored for their accomplishments with statues, statehouse portraits and dedicated streets and buildings are now being viewed through a more critical lens.

Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., last weekend said it would rename two buildings that bore the names of school presidents who oversaw the sale of slaves to settle campus debt in the 1800s.

At Amherst College in Massachusetts, students and faculty are pushing for the small, elite liberal arts college to drop as its unofficial mascot Lord Jeff Amherst, who commanded British forces in North America during the French and Indian War and who also is believed to have once given blankets containing the smallpox virus to Native Americans. College trustees will discuss the issue at their meeting in January, Amherst spokeswoman Caroline Hanna said on Friday.
So Woodrow Wilson served as president at Princeton. He served as President as the United States. He gets some buildings named after him. Seems natural and reasonable. But since he wasn't progressive enough, some students are offended and want him scrubbed from campus. Just another example of silly outrage from one of our college campuses :thumbup:
He was very progressive, he was a big fan of expansive government.

He was also an rascist.

 
It is not whitewashing history to remove Wilson's name. He was an awful President, a terrible man and probably the worst racist we've ever had in high public office. It would be a good thing IMO to remove anything honoring this guy who was an embarrassment to our nation.
Oh shut the #### up.
Yes sir.(I don't argue with police).
You're white so it's OK.
What are you anti semitic? He's part of the tribe.

 
BLM is so pissed about the terror attacks have taken the limelight away from these stupid worthless issues.

Love reading their tweets, their heads are exploding. :thumbup:

 
I am surprised Princeton would voluntarily do this to quiet down some students, unless the administration themselves already hated the school's history with Wilson. Princeton turns away thousands of applicants per year, pretty sure that wouldn't change if they didn't appease the current student body.
They didn't really do anything though other than create a "safe space" for black students. All they agreed to do was look into possibly doing those other things. So basically refer it to a committee to look into the possibility of doing those things. It was pure PR control.

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.
Nobody's saying that Princeton doesn't have the right to get rid of references to Woodrow Wilson. They're just saying that doing so for this particular reason is dumb.

 
Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone.
Millard Fillmore was the founder of the University at Buffalo and was president (then called chancellor) of the university from inception in 1846 until his death in 1874. He remained chancellor in a part-time role while serving as POTUS from 1850-1853, and returned to a full-time capacity after leaving the US Presidency. The school has a number of buildings and a continuing ed program named after him.

:thumbup:

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.
Nobody's saying that Princeton doesn't have the right to get rid of references to Woodrow Wilson. They're just saying that doing so for this particular reason is dumb.
I guess. But if the idea is to honor the guy and this generation doesn't think he deserves honoring, I have a hard time disagreeing with that. Gotta cater to your customers and prospective customers, after all. And hey, if they do it they have more building name opportunities to whore out to rich donors. Win-win.

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.
Nobody's saying that Princeton doesn't have the right to get rid of references to Woodrow Wilson. They're just saying that doing so for this particular reason is dumb.
I guess. But if the idea is to honor the guy and this generation doesn't think he deserves honoring, I have a hard time disagreeing with that. Gotta cater to your customers and prospective customers, after all. And hey, if they do it they have more building name opportunities to whore out to rich donors. Win-win.
If they do this, they're going to have decades worth of angry old rich guys withholding donations. It's fine for Princeton's president to say they'll "consider" changing the name of the Woodrow Wilson School, but it won't actually happen. University administrators are a lot more worried about angering old rich people than young, relatively poor people.

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.
Nobody's saying that Princeton doesn't have the right to get rid of references to Woodrow Wilson. They're just saying that doing so for this particular reason is dumb.
I guess. But if the idea is to honor the guy and this generation doesn't think he deserves honoring, I have a hard time disagreeing with that. Gotta cater to your customers and prospective customers, after all. And hey, if they do it they have more building name opportunities to whore out to rich donors. Win-win.
If they do this, they're going to have decades worth of angry old rich guys withholding donations. It's fine for Princeton's president to say they'll "consider" changing the name of the Woodrow Wilson School, but it won't actually happen. University administrators are a lot more worried about angering old rich people than young, relatively poor people.
Pretty good point. Bet they don't do it now that you put it that way.

 
Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone.
Millard Fillmore was the founder of the University at Buffalo and was president (then called chancellor) of the university from inception in 1846 until his death in 1874. He remained chancellor in a part-time role while serving as POTUS from 1850-1853, and returned to a full-time capacity after leaving the US Presidency. The school has a number of buildings and a continuing ed program named after him.

:thumbup:
Sounds made up.

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.
Nobody's saying that Princeton doesn't have the right to get rid of references to Woodrow Wilson. They're just saying that doing so for this particular reason is dumb.
I guess. But if the idea is to honor the guy and this generation doesn't think he deserves honoring, I have a hard time disagreeing with that. Gotta cater to your customers and prospective customers, after all. And hey, if they do it they have more building name opportunities to whore out to rich donors. Win-win.
If they do this, they're going to have decades worth of angry old rich guys withholding donations. It's fine for Princeton's president to say they'll "consider" changing the name of the Woodrow Wilson School, but it won't actually happen. University administrators are a lot more worried about angering old rich people than young, relatively poor people.
Maybe. It depends on what the change would be, and how it's presented. I get that donors care about tradition, but I'm not so sure they especially care about Woodrow Wilson.

 
Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone.
Millard Fillmore was the founder of the University at Buffalo and was president (then called chancellor) of the university from inception in 1846 until his death in 1874. He remained chancellor in a part-time role while serving as POTUS from 1850-1853, and returned to a full-time capacity after leaving the US Presidency. The school has a number of buildings and a continuing ed program named after him.

:thumbup:
Nice. I did not know that. Need to bone up on my Fillmore trivia. :thumbup:

 
Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone. He was no slouch at Princeton either -- he instituted many educational reforms that went on to adopted by many other colleges.
Why shouldn't students be able to rename buildings?

 
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Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone.
Millard Fillmore was the founder of the University at Buffalo and was president (then called chancellor) of the university from inception in 1846 until his death in 1874. He remained chancellor in a part-time role while serving as POTUS from 1850-1853, and returned to a full-time capacity after leaving the US Presidency. The school has a number of buildings and a continuing ed program named after him.

:thumbup:
Sounds made up.
definitely made up.

 
Why would anyone care what a private institution names their buildings? Schools whore out building names to rich donors all the time, they can honor or dis-honor (un-honor?) anyone for whatever reason they want.
Nobody's saying that Princeton doesn't have the right to get rid of references to Woodrow Wilson. They're just saying that doing so for this particular reason is dumb.
I guess. But if the idea is to honor the guy and this generation doesn't think he deserves honoring, I have a hard time disagreeing with that. Gotta cater to your customers and prospective customers, after all. And hey, if they do it they have more building name opportunities to whore out to rich donors. Win-win.
If they do this, they're going to have decades worth of angry old rich guys withholding donations. It's fine for Princeton's president to say they'll "consider" changing the name of the Woodrow Wilson School, but it won't actually happen. University administrators are a lot more worried about angering old rich people than young, relatively poor people.
Maybe. It depends on what the change would be, and how it's presented. I get that donors care about tradition, but I'm not so sure they especially care about Woodrow Wilson.
They care a lot about Woodrow Wilson at Princeton. Their most famous school is named after him and he wrote the school motto which people there talk about all the time.

More than that, Princeton's alumni ranks are populated with the kind of stodgy old white guys that will fight change kicking and screaming, particularly when that change is fueled by young, liberal people of color taking aim at stodgy old white guys.

 
Even assuming he was a terrible President of the United States, why shouldn't Princeton be able to honor a former president of the school who went on to become U.S. President? Princeton and Columbia are the only two I can think of who can claim that, but I might be forgetting someone. He was no slouch at Princeton either -- he instituted many educational reforms that went on to adopted by many other colleges.
Why shouldn't students be able to rename buildings?
  • Costs money to change signs, print new maps, etc.
  • Ruins continuity and connections between alumni and current students.
  • Never going to find someone that no one will have any problems with, unless selecting from Norwood's 100 Mediumest Americans list.
  • Is this really students renaming buildings? It sounds like a very small group of students requesting a change. If all students were voting on it, I'd guess they'd vote to keep the name.
  • With Wilson specifically, I can't think of a more influential person in Princeton history, with respect to Princeton itself.
 

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