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QB Case Keenum, HOU (1 Viewer)

can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.

 
can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
Did you see his lone game? If not you need to watch it.

The Chiefs Defense is #1 in the league in fewest yards giving up per game never giving up 300 passing yards to any opponant. Case was 21 yards short of that mark. Not sure where you get 250 yards is his upside?

As far as putting points on the board Case barely missed a Rushing TD when he rushed to the half yard line and the Chiefs stopped him and then in that same drive he threw another TD pass to Hopkins which Hopkins dropped and could have scored a 2nd passing TD. Yes he only scored one TD but he should have gotten two at least.

In that game Case had 5 different 25+ yard completions with three of them going to Andre Johnson (for anyone wondering if today's news hurt AJ).

This is an interesting article about how the Chiefs viewed Case Keenum after that game and playing him

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/10/20/4566010/keenum-earns-chiefs-respect-with.html

Entering the Chiefs' 17-16 win over the Texans on Sunday, it seemed reasonable to think Houston's second-year quarterback would be in for a long day.

Not only would Case Keenum, a man who went undrafted in 2012 due to his perceived lack of arm strength and mobility, be making his first career start on the road, he would be doing it at a rejuvenated Arrowhead Stadium, against the NFL's most ferocious pass rush.

But by the end of the day, even though the Texans lost, let's just say Keenum had made it clear he wasn't the overwhelmed, wide-eyed kid they expected him to be.

“The guy can definitely move around back there, buy some time for his receivers to get open and he has the arm strength to make the big play down the field,” said Chiefs cornerback Sean Smith. “I found that out the hard way.”

Smith is a confident guy, someone who loves to refer to the “swag” he and his fellow Chiefs corners like to play with. But he offered that self-deprecating remark with a smirk, one that perhaps belies a certain amount of respect earned for a young quarterback who just played his tail off in a hostile environment.

“I don't want to say we overlooked him,” Chiefs safety Kendrick Lewis said, “but that guy was better than we thought.”

....

Safety Quintin Demps, who played with Keenum last season in Houston, wasn't necessarily surprised by Keenum's strong day. Keenum, 25, was a scout team quarterback last season as he learned Houston's offense under coach Gary Kubiak, whom Demps regards as one of the league's best quarterback gurus.

Demps remembers seeing Keenum make enough plays against the first-string defense to think he should have been drafted.

“I told y'all Keenum can play,” Demps said. “He's gonna be good ... he's got good composure. He's like a fourth-year guy as a rookie. That's very rare.”
 
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can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
So his upside is less than what he did against the Chiefs last week? 15/25/271 and 1 TD in their house.

I don't see why Keenum doesn't have upside at least as high as Schaub's, who was north of 300 with 2 TD's twice this year. The downside risk is greater, of course, but that's what you get with a rookie.

 
Kubiak last week: "Schaub is our starter when he is healthy."

Kubiak today: "Schaub is healthy -- we're going with Case."

Not wishy-washy at all.
I've not felt like getting into this before, but you're not at all giving an accurate depiction of what Kubiak actually communicated.

He was asked if Schaub would be the starter after the bye. His answer amounted to, he has Schaub who has been the starter and Case who played well when he came in due to injury., and that he was going to evaluate things over the bye.

Right after on the radio that carried the press conference, the radio hosts mentioned twitter was blowing up with "Kubiak names Schaub starter" tweets, and both agreed that was a gross misinterpretation of what Kubiak actually communicated.

There's 100 things where Kubiak deserves criticism. This isn't one of them.
I definitely saw "Matt is our starter when he is healthy." I'll try to find it when I get home. There's always a chance he was misquoted, I suppose.

 
Totally worth a look as a QB2 or bye week replacement, as long as you're not expecting the moon. In my case Tannehill is my current bye week backup so the risk is pretty low.

 
Kubiak last week: "Schaub is our starter when he is healthy."

Kubiak today: "Schaub is healthy -- we're going with Case."

Not wishy-washy at all.
I've not felt like getting into this before, but you're not at all giving an accurate depiction of what Kubiak actually communicated.

He was asked if Schaub would be the starter after the bye. His answer amounted to, he has Schaub who has been the starter and Case who played well when he came in due to injury., and that he was going to evaluate things over the bye.

Right after on the radio that carried the press conference, the radio hosts mentioned twitter was blowing up with "Kubiak names Schaub starter" tweets, and both agreed that was a gross misinterpretation of what Kubiak actually communicated.

There's 100 things where Kubiak deserves criticism. This isn't one of them.
I definitely saw "Matt is our starter when he is healthy." I'll try to find it when I get home. There's always a chance he was misquoted, I suppose.
Kubiak was asked directly about the QB1 job the Monday after the KC game and gave a politically correct answer that wouldn't embarrass a guy whose back he's always had while also admitting that the youngster played well enough to get another chance. Kubiak wasn't going to make a public change at quarterback immediately after that game because it's not his style and it's one reason why his players like playing for him. On the other hand, he left the door open to make that change and said as much in that press conference. All he was saying at that time was "right now, Matt's our starter but I reserve the right to give Keenum an opportunity to win that job outright."

GR is correct in defending Kubiak in this instance and this move is anything but wishy-washy. Wishy-washy would be waiting all week to name a starter. Kubiak came right out and said Keenum is his new starter for the rest of the season because he earned it with his play.

 
can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
Yeah, you didn't watch vs KC. You really should have. He played extremely well and this Brady owner feels very confident in saying I would feel much more confident about starting Keenum the next few weeks in the Texans offensive scheme than the Patriots passing offense. Keenum's floor is 225/1 with some rushing yards thrown in, but he has the opportunity and the weapons around him to post multiple 2/3 TD weeks.

 
can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
Did you see his lone game? If not you need to watch it.
yes, I did. Generally, I think he benefited a lot from the Cheifs' low expectations; they were giving him easy reads most of the game, but once they put the clamps on, Keenum couldn't move the ball. I also saw a disturbing lack of pocket awareness, getting blindsided at least twice that i recall.

edit: Listen, i won't say i wasn't at all impressed given his numbers by the end, his opponent, and it being his first NFL start, but I don't think it lasts.

 
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can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
Did you see his lone game? If not you need to watch it.
yes, I did. Generally, I think he benefited a lot from the Cheifs' low expectations; they were giving him easy reads most of the game, but once they put the clamps on, Keenum couldn't move the ball. I also saw a disturbing lack of pocket awareness, getting blindsided at least twice that i recall.
The Chiefs only "put the clamps on" because of the Texans being forced to go one dimensional due to the loss of their two RBs. Their defensive players even said as much, admitting that they could pin their ears back and attack because they knew the Texans had no running game threat.

 
Kubiak last week: "Schaub is our starter when he is healthy."

Kubiak today: "Schaub is healthy -- we're going with Case."

Not wishy-washy at all.
I've not felt like getting into this before, but you're not at all giving an accurate depiction of what Kubiak actually communicated.

He was asked if Schaub would be the starter after the bye. His answer amounted to, he has Schaub who has been the starter and Case who played well when he came in due to injury., and that he was going to evaluate things over the bye.

Right after on the radio that carried the press conference, the radio hosts mentioned twitter was blowing up with "Kubiak names Schaub starter" tweets, and both agreed that was a gross misinterpretation of what Kubiak actually communicated.

There's 100 things where Kubiak deserves criticism. This isn't one of them.
I definitely saw "Matt is our starter when he is healthy." I'll try to find it when I get home. There's always a chance he was misquoted, I suppose.
I don't blame you, sorry if any of my irritation with the whole matter came through as directed at you. Members of the press (like PFT) were pretty blatant in chopping up the quote so it implied something different than what was really meant.

Here is the press conference transcript for the part in question. This is the day after the KC game, and was the cause of all the "Kubiak just named Schaub the starter" comments.

(on if QB Matt Schaub will return to being the starter after the bye week if he is healthy) "I’ve got to sit down and look at our situation and what’s going on right now. Obviously, Matt’s our starting quarterback. Case (Keenum) play this week because Matt wasn’t healthy. Case went in and played extremely well. I’m going to sit down, we’re on a bye week, I’m going to evaluate where we’re at as a team and move forward form there. So I’m going to do that everywhere, not just at the quarterback position, I’ll do that at every place."
Kubiak was very clear in his first sentence that he would not make a decision until he'd had time to look at it. As Lobary indicated, it's a neutral answer that didn't show a lack of support for any of his players, including Schaub. All he did was restate the situation, that he had to choose between the starter and the new guy who played excellent.

But then sites like ProFootballTalk warp it to garner page hits. They turned that into the misleading headline Kubiak: Matt Schaub’s our starting quarterback. And they give as their evidence of this:

“Matt’s our starting quarterback,” Kubiak said, via the Houston Chronicle. “Case played this week.”
Chopped out anything that shows the actual context of the quote. If you read the Chronicle article, the article paints the opposite picture of what PFT's chopped up quote implies.

 
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Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, Nick Foles, etc. There are lots of below average QBs that can produce with limited opportunities. I'll be very surprised if Keenum ever amounts to anything of substance.

 
Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, Nick Foles, etc. There are lots of below average QBs that can produce with limited opportunities. I'll be very surprised if Keenum ever amounts to anything of substance.
Sure. I'm not even completely sold on him yet. This week's game against the Colts will tell a lot.

 
Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, Nick Foles, etc. There are lots of below average QBs that can produce with limited opportunities. I'll be very surprised if Keenum ever amounts to anything of substance.
on the other hand there are guys like Brady, Wilson, etc that can produce with limited opportunities and become stars. Not really understanding your point, guy.

 
Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, Nick Foles, etc. There are lots of below average QBs that can produce with limited opportunities. I'll be very surprised if Keenum ever amounts to anything of substance.
on the other hand there are guys like Brady, Wilson, etc that can produce with limited opportunities and become stars. Not really understanding your point, guy.
Probably that the Kolbs and Foles of the world are far more common than the opposite. Essentially, that it would be prudent to hold off from anointing him a starting caliber NFL quarterback or success until we see more.

Also, Brady and Wilson aren't apt comparisons to the uphill battle (statistically) Keenum faces. Both Brady and Wilson were drafted (6th & 3rd round respectively). It would be more accurate to compare his situation to guys like Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Kurt Warner (sucessful UDFA QBs).

 
Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb, Nick Foles, etc. There are lots of below average QBs that can produce with limited opportunities. I'll be very surprised if Keenum ever amounts to anything of substance.
on the other hand there are guys like Brady, Wilson, etc that can produce with limited opportunities and become stars. Not really understanding your point, guy.
Probably that the Kolbs and Foles of the world are far more common than the opposite. Essentially, that it would be prudent to hold off from anointing him a starting caliber NFL quarterback or success until we see more.

Also, Brady and Wilson aren't apt comparisons to the uphill battle (statistically) Keenum faces. Both Brady and Wilson were drafted (6th & 3rd round respectively). It would be more accurate to compare his situation to guys like Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, or Kurt Warner (sucessful UDFA QBs).
There's less difference between a 6th round pick and a UDFA and a first round pick to sixth round pick.

 
Lobary said:
Kubiak has announced Keenum as his new starting QB. I believe Case will invigorate the offense and is a good WW target for those in need of a QB. I'm a Brady owner and I would rather start Keenum right now over him.
Rotoworld take:

Matt Schaub is healthy enough to play, but will back up Case Keenum in Week 9.
A report that Schaub's ankle ligaments were torn was leaked so the veteran could save some face. The truth is that he has a mildly sprained ankle, but the Texans would prefer to roll with undrafted rookie Case Keenum. It speaks volumes about Schaub's standing with the organization and in the league. He's 150-of-233 for 1,552 yards with eight touchdowns and nine interceptions this season. Schaub may never play another snap for the Texans if Keenum sustains health and moves the chains.

Source: Texans on Twitter
 
i think Kubiak had no choice but to start keenum considering all the circumstances. Right or wrong we will have a better idea over the next 2 or 3 weeks.

 
tdhartis said:
FUBAR said:
There's less difference between a 6th round pick and a UDFA and a first round pick to sixth round pick.
Okay, great observation. That's irrelevant to the point I was making.
How so? You stated Brady isn't an apt comparison. I think it's closer than we may want to admit.FWIW, most of us would be thrilled if case becomes Romo. In ff anyway

 
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ragnarok628 said:
moviedude25 said:
ragnarok628 said:
can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
Did you see his lone game? If not you need to watch it.
yes, I did. Generally, I think he benefited a lot from the Cheifs' low expectations; they were giving him easy reads most of the game, but once they put the clamps on, Keenum couldn't move the ball. I also saw a disturbing lack of pocket awareness, getting blindsided at least twice that i recall.

edit: Listen, i won't say i wasn't at all impressed given his numbers by the end, his opponent, and it being his first NFL start, but I don't think it lasts.
Oh so he played well because the Chiefs thought it was a scrimmage and he had the red jersey on. Great logic.

 
ragnarok628 said:
moviedude25 said:
ragnarok628 said:
can't see myself starting Keenum over anybody. High risk of a dud, and an upside of what, 250 yds and a TD? Where's the value in that?
Well, if you are a Brady or Eli owner these days, I'd say about 80 more yards worth of value, depending on your league rules.
disagree. 250 and a TD is the upside. We haven't been seeing it but both Eli and Brady are definitely capable of big games (didn't Eli put up like a forty burger week 1?) whereas if Keenum has a great game, this is the best i'd really be hoping for. and the scary part is, i feel like what he's MORE likely to get is 3-5 sacks, 2-4 INT, 0 TD and <200 yards.
Did you see his lone game? If not you need to watch it.
yes, I did. Generally, I think he benefited a lot from the Cheifs' low expectations; they were giving him easy reads most of the game, but once they put the clamps on, Keenum couldn't move the ball. I also saw a disturbing lack of pocket awareness, getting blindsided at least twice that i recall.

edit: Listen, i won't say i wasn't at all impressed given his numbers by the end, his opponent, and it being his first NFL start, but I don't think it lasts.
Is this some sort of joke ?

 
I think the difference between Houston moving the ball early and having trouble late was the lack of a healthy tailback for Houston. Kansas City ignored the run and could sell out to stop the pass.

 
No shame in Keenum's final numbers playing at KC in his first start as a rookie.

Seems to me the best number was 0 INTs but he did have the FL.

 
No shame in Keenum's final numbers playing at KC in his first start as a rookie.

Seems to me the best number was 0 INTs but he did have the FL.
FL was toward end of the game on a desperation type play. I don't fault him much for that with the pocket collapsing and getting blindsided.

 
I think it's fair to give him a few games before passing hard judgments on him. He seems to have a nice arm and release on him from what little I saw. HOU's playoff hopes seem shot now, so why not give him a few more chances?

 
I think it's fair to give him a few games before passing hard judgments on him. He seems to have a nice arm and release on him from what little I saw. HOU's playoff hopes seem shot now, so why not give him a few more chances?
Not with Case behind center :moneybag:

 
I think it's fair to give him a few games before passing hard judgments on him. He seems to have a nice arm and release on him from what little I saw. HOU's playoff hopes seem shot now, so why not give him a few more chances?
Not with Case behind center :moneybag:
:fishy:

They won't catch the Colts, then you have the Broncos or chiefs holding one wc. Their chances are the same as a snowball in hell.

 
I think it's fair to give him a few games before passing hard judgments on him. He seems to have a nice arm and release on him from what little I saw. HOU's playoff hopes seem shot now, so why not give him a few more chances?
Not with Case behind center :moneybag:
HOU is dead in the water. They can win this game and it won't much matter. They need to get to 9 wins to have a shot, that is almost impossible when looking at their schedule. They won't win in Indy, they won't beat Denver, unlikely to beat NE, that's already eight losses. Most likely they lose again on Sunday, Luck tends to play well when the lights are bright.

I've said all along, HOU has many other problems, Schaub was just one of them. They simply aren't that good and haven't been since they wore those letterjackets to Foxboro last year.

 
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I think it's fair to give him a few games before passing hard judgments on him. He seems to have a nice arm and release on him from what little I saw. HOU's playoff hopes seem shot now, so why not give him a few more chances?
Not with Case behind center :moneybag:
HOU is dead in the water. They can win this game and it won't much matter. They need to get to 9 wins to have a shot, that is almost impossible when looking at their schedule. They won't win in Indy, they won't beat Denver, unlikely to beat NE, that's already eight losses. Most likely they lose again on Sunday, Luck tends to play well when the lights are bright.

I've said all along, HOU has many other problems, Schaub was just one of them. They simply aren't that good and haven't been since they wore those letterjackets to Foxboro last year.
Cushing and Manning out for the season hasn't helped but I think they'll make 9-7 under Clutch City Case.

 
Major, it isn't that i don't WANT Keenum to be everything you say and more... but c'mon man you can't honestly have this high of expectations?

 
I think there is something to be said for tempering rhetoric, especially in situations with an unproven player like this.

Over the top fanaticism quickly breeds contempt.. It turns a lot of people against the player. See Tebow, Tim.

But more importantly for us here, it can make objective discussion difficult. At the very least, it gives others reason to doubt one's opinions and observations if it looks like you're just arguing a side.

 
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Looking forward to watch Keenum this weekend against Luck. Hopefully a lot of down field passing from him. Wanna see how much arm he has.

 
suprised noone's bumped this yet. this is rather amazing. wish i'd listened to you major and picked him up after your initial post in my dynasty league. I waited a week and missed out on him. damnit.

 
I was waiting for the camera to show Schaub on the sideline so I can see if he is in the fetal position. Keenum makes plays Schaub has never made.

 
I understand coaches don't think this way but lets hope they let Case have the job for the rest of the year whether he keeps this up or has some rough patches. Houston needs to find out if they need to draft a quarterback early in the draft this year or if Case is their guy.

 

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