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Along those same lines, I do think Daboll and his staff let Jones do what he does best, and this may be a sign of his growth. Like I said if I’m a GM, I’d sure be reluctant to hand him a big contract but some QBs do take time to develop and then have steady careers. Jones ability to run, alone, makes him an attractive player in this new NFL. Heck, two slightly better athletes, but much further behind passers may end up in the Top 10 of the draft this year.
For sure. And one or both of Levis and Richardson could be out of football in a season or two.
Fair enough.
It's telling that the Giants best success historically is when they ask Danei Jones to do nothing and the D and running game carry the team. Unless your D and running game is elite (Giants run game is excellent and the D should improve), it's hard to win in the playoffs. Jones best statistical year was this year and he threw 15 TDs. QBR is a nice stat but when you're not even throwing for 200 yards a game, you're a QB being hidden on O so you don't mess up the team. As for the "he had no talent around him" argument... he didn't have talent around him in Duke also and was terrible then. The really good coaches and QBs can elevate poor talent around them (see Brian Daboll or Eli Manning @ Ole Miss/his whole career); Jones has shown no ability to do that in college or the 5 years he's been a Giants QB.
That's the beauty of a plan outline: you don't need names. There is nothing vague and nebulous about "use Tyrod Taylor at QB in 2023 while you reload at QB because it's better than paying Daniel Jones $40 million dollars and it doesn't destroy your cap and force you to release other talented players".
Tyrod Taylor is 33 years, has never thrown for more than 20 TDs or had more than 3,035 yards in a season...that simply is not viable...the Giants are in a tough spot...they had a very good year and being in New York taking a step backwards is not going to fly unless the next big thing is already on the roster...their best bet maybe franchising Jones and drafting someone like Hooker in the second unless Daboll is a big fan of an available QB like Carr or Jimmy G.
Says who exactly? The giants should have been terrible this year, some people had them barely sneaking out four wins before the start of the season. They won a lot of close games, which statistically are a year to year crap shoot. Who outside of the crazy fans are expecting an improvement in year two of the new regime? A regression is not only likely, but should be expected.
He also threw for 3,000 yards and 24 TD's in just 12 starts as a rookie.
. Again, his 1st start was Week 3 of the 2019 NFL season after being the #6 pick in the draft and It's taken him four years to get to where he is now... which is still not a credible NFL QB. Is he close? Sure, but he's not there yet and it's a legitimate question if he can get there. It can't be underestimated the fantastic job Daboll/Mike Kafka did with Daniel Jones, and I respect them wanting to bring him back to hopefully progress for another year. However, you don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul; pay Jones at such a high cost that you lose Saquon Barkley, Julian Love, and mess up the planned extensions for Xavier McKinney, Dexter Lawrence, etc.
@Yenrub - He also had the pocket awareness of a gnat and could barely progress off his 1st read his rookie year
@Boston - It absolutely is and Tyrod Taylor's contract was specifically structured with possibly being the QB in 2023. Why, if Daboll is great with QBs, do you suddenly not trust him with T-Mobile or another young QB? I think that's really odd Giants supposedly can't rebuild and go 6-11/5/12 for a year in order to improve your team via the draft while not destroying your cap. The NFL has worked that way for a long time; teams don't want to spend and tank (Houston) or start nosetailing by midseason and never recover (Bears, Panthers, Colts, Falcons, etc.)
The Giants literally lost a good corner last year in James Bradberry because they couldn't pay him due to being in cap Hell. You cannot repeat that mistake, especially for multiple years.
Can't have crap without a but.
Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Because you know more than Brian DaBoll? LOLBut they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Sometimes to get better a team needs to get worse.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Never said I did. Can you quote me saying that?
You’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Pretty sure @habsfan was in agreement with you. lolYou’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Yeah. You are convinced they shouldn’t re-sign Jones even if DaBoll thinks it’s the right thing to do. Ergo you think you know the right thing to do even if it contradicts what DaBoll wants.
Ha! Good point. Thanks for pointing that out. Thought he was replying to me. I’m all good. Nothing wrong with some healthy back and forth.Pretty sure @habsfan was in agreement with you. lolYou’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Maybe take a breath and relax. It’s a friendly discussion.
What "fantasy managers" somtimes do is say their team shouldn't go through Door 1, 2 or 3. That's easy to say when you're on the sidelines but the actual team needs to pick a door. You can't just stand there with your tallywacker hanging out. I think Danny Dimes is the door you walk through if you're the Giants.Ha! Good point. Thanks for pointing that out. Thought he was replying to me. I’m all good. Nothing wrong with some healthy back and forth.Pretty sure @habsfan was in agreement with you. lolYou’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Maybe take a breath and relax. It’s a friendly discussion.
Danny Dimes is a door.
You’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Here's the thing, Daboll hasn't done anything yet. He's made a lot of comments, but you have absolutely no idea if it's completely coach speak. He could be saying the exact opposite behind closed doors and the media and fans would have absolutely no idea.
Why would any player give a discount if ten mil per year? That's insane.
To be fair, JimmyG’s contract was incentive laden as a backup to Lance.
I think people can discuss and comment on something someone more capable than them is doing without claiming they know more or claim they could do a better job. Should Dan Orlovsky not be able to criticize Aaron Rodgers because he wasn't a very good NFL QB and Rodger is a future HoF?
You’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Here's the thing, Daboll hasn't done anything yet. He's made a lot of comments, but you have absolutely no idea if it's completely coach speak. He could be saying the exact opposite behind closed doors and the media and fans would have absolutely no idea.
Maybe Daboll would be delighted to have Jones back... As long as he signed for 20m a season so the team could address other areas. But Jones is hearing from his agent he can get twice that on the open market. And maybe Daboll loves Jones... But not as much as he'd love two new offensive linemen, a stud corner, and linebacker.
All you know is that the Giants are talking contract with Jones. You have no idea what those numbers are and how serious they are about wrapping him up long term.
Then I think we're both in total agreement, only that I don't have any faith in Jones. Daboll may be able to turn him into Kirk Cousins level qb, and that might be what the giants are banking on if they resign him to a long high priced contract, but that doesn't win superbowls without a dominant team around him.You’re not convinced? Do you not think DaBoll knows what he’s doing? If he chooses to extend him I’ll go with the Coach of the Year and “QB Whisperer” as some in this thread dubbed him over us yahoos who only think we know what we are talking about. I think DaBolls earned that right.Not convinced. Things could get better but odds suggest they could get much, much worse.But they should.If they aren’t sold on Jones but aren’t enamored by the other options, they aren’t going to be tied to Jones for another 3 plus years on a long term deal. They will do what Frankman suggests and go with a short term replacement and look to fill the hole in the future.Or because they don’t see anything on the market that would be an upgrade. Obviously.
As you said, don’t think too hard.
Everything out of the team and those who cover them state they like Jones and want him to stick around. Not sure why it’s hard for people to think they actually like him and want him as their QB for the near future. I’m sure it has its limits, and they probably don’t want to go full market value ($40MM) but I also don’t think they want to start over with an unknown.
Here's the thing, Daboll hasn't done anything yet. He's made a lot of comments, but you have absolutely no idea if it's completely coach speak. He could be saying the exact opposite behind closed doors and the media and fans would have absolutely no idea.
Maybe Daboll would be delighted to have Jones back... As long as he signed for 20m a season so the team could address other areas. But Jones is hearing from his agent he can get twice that on the open market. And maybe Daboll loves Jones... But not as much as he'd love two new offensive linemen, a stud corner, and linebacker.
All you know is that the Giants are talking contract with Jones. You have no idea what those numbers are and how serious they are about wrapping him up long term.
I 1,000% agree. Why I predicated it by saying "if the Giants sign Jones to a long term deal". I'm more questioning the monday morning quarterbacking that will happen if they make that move. If they choose to let him walk then the answer is pretty obvious. I just trust DaBoll in either scenerio.
So I guess I wasn’t crazy to suggest he’d be paid north of $25M after all.
He'll get it unless he's franchised. Such is the QB market these days.
And here we get to see if the Giants want to build a dynasty or get kicked in the early rounds of the playoffs for the next handful of seasons. The 49ers had this choice - albeit with a much better surrounding team - a successful enough qb to get the team into the playoffs, but one who can't be THE MAN when his team needs him to be. The 9ers made the gamble on their ideal guy and while it didn't work out, they've still got the cap space to keep their defense at NFC championship levels.
Agree - and said as much earlier in this topic.
