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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (1 Viewer)

Obie Wan said:
could be that the McNair family is reneging on that backroom deal with Buzbee to organize and orchestrate the massage circus against Watson.  

on top of Buzbee getting paid only made a fraction of what he expected from his 35% of the vastly reduce settlement amounts.
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33.3%

 
Gopher State said:
Depends how much your company cares about it’s public image.  The NFL does care about its image and if they don’t suspend him for at least one year their will be an outrage by NFL fans a large number of which will be women.  With the Texans now being dragged through the mud in this PR nightmare everyone in the NFL upper circle will be onboard for a major penalty for Watson.  Some people act like Watson is bigger then the NFL, but in reality he is a very small part of the NFL, and will quickly be forgotten.  As the say NFL stands for not for long when it comes to players.
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League imposed suspensions are not the same thing as getting cut(fired).  You are going on about the former while quoting a post from me responding to the later.

 
menobrown said:
League imposed suspensions are not the same thing as getting cut(fired).  You are going on about the former while quoting a post from me responding to the later.
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Lifetime suspension would be the same as being fired, and I don’t think anyone can rule that option out at this time.

 
ghostguy123 said:
However, more could come to light, not to mention the very real potential for something else to happen in the future that puts him in jeopardy.  It won't take 26 cases next time.  Let's fast-forward to next off-season,  if something else like this happened with ONE lady and there was any sort of proof at all, he never plays again.
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Unless a player was getting in trouble over something he showed he just could not stop, like an addict, I don't really think they have any more of a chance of doing something wrong in the future then any other player in the league so I only view them based on what they've done, not what might do.

I don't view him as an addict, maybe some do but I don't which is why I say it's far fetched he never plays again. Covered this over the weekend with someone but based on timeline of accusations his behavior stopped when he started getting sued. By timeline I mean date of last alleged incidents and reporting from Jenny Vrentas which she said covered up until Spring of 2021.

So to me not an addict, someone who I really don't think understood the ramifications of his actions and now that he does he has ceased. He got scared straight. Not someone I'm worried about doing this in the future any more then any rando player running afoul of the league so badly they are permanently out.

 
Gopher State said:
Lifetime suspension would be the same as being fired, and I don’t think anyone can rule that option out at this time.
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No it's not the same thing at all. It's not even semantics, it's nothing close to the same thing as an employer firing you as an entity with power above your employer suspending you. This should not be that hard to understand.

I've said more times then I can count in this thread he's not getting suspended for life, so go ahead and put me down as that someone who is saying it's not an option at this time.

 
menobrown said:
Unless a player was getting in trouble over something he showed he just could not stop, like an addict, I don't really think they have any more of a chance of doing something wrong in the future then any other player in the league so I only view them based on what they've done, not what might do.

I don't view him as an addict, maybe some do but I don't which is why I say it's far fetched he never plays again. Covered this over the weekend with someone but based on timeline of accusations his behavior stopped when he started getting sued. By timeline I mean date of last alleged incidents and reporting from Jenny Vrentas which she said covered up until Spring of 2021.

So to me not an addict, someone who I really don't think understood the ramifications of his actions and now that he does he has ceased. He got scared straight. Not someone I'm worried about doing this in the future any more then any rando player running afoul of the league so badly they are permanently out.
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I think I have no idea if this is a problem he cannot control. The only thing I think is that he got out of order with several/many women.

I don't know if it's a kink he has, or maybe he was just a young guy that thought rules didn't apply to him, and now he wants to get paid, so he never does it again. That seems like a reasonably plausible outcome. 

But Art Schlicter gambled his way out of football, and Kellen Winslow couldn't keep his hands off little old ladies. There are precedents. 

 
menobrown said:
No it's not the same thing at all. It's not even semantics, it's nothing close to the same thing as an employer firing you as an entity with power above your employer suspending you. This should not be that hard to understand.

I've said more times then I can count in this thread he's not getting suspended for life, so go ahead and put me down as that someone who is saying it's not an option at this time.
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he may not even get suspended in 2022, at this time.

they sure need more than after the fact verbal accounts from the plaintiffs

 
Obie Wan said:
what could go wrong in trying to manipulate a judge

clearly the league has been priming the pump with talk of maximum penalties

Judge may not be pleased with the NFL's tactics and decide no discipline at this time, until the trials conclude
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In the story I saw, the information about what punishment the league is recommending was attributed to someone with ties to the NFLPA, not the the NFL.

(The NFL formally notified both the Disciplinary Officer and the NFLPA of its recommendation nine days ago.)

 
I don't really know why people wanna get in the weeds about lifetime suspension, there will always be some way for him to reapply. 

 
Dry humping the table during a massage is rather hilariously inappropriate, icky, complete lack of self control, and just downright YUCK.

However, is it suspension worthy, or just embarrassment worthy.  

 
I wonder how his teammates and opponents look at this and what it does to locker room dynamics. When (if?) he plays again I can't help wondering if he will be treated differently and certainly with less respect. Trash talk will be next level (tackling too I guess). Who would want to catch his balls? (pun intended)

 
ghostguy123 said:
Dry humping the table during a massage is rather hilariously inappropriate, icky, complete lack of self control, and just downright YUCK.

However, is it suspension worthy, or just embarrassment worthy.  
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Is that one act alone suspension worthy? Probably not, but I’m pretty sure you’d be pissed off if your buddy slept over on your couch and he left a big wet spot. I mean these tables are usually owned by the therapist - but maybe in DeShaun’s case he invested in his own?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Is that one act alone suspension worthy? Probably not, but I’m pretty sure you’d be pissed off if your buddy slept over on your couch and he left a big wet spot. I mean these tables are usually owned by the therapist - but maybe in DeShaun’s case he invested in his own?
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Wrapped in barbed wire named her Lucille

Joking aside, he basically admits to habitual sexual misconduct in his suit vs the Texans right? Blames the organization for not taking responsibility to prevent his behavior. And allegedly facilitate by setting him up with private massage sessions in hotel rooms fully aware of how he behaves.

Going public, he has taken this to the Shield level.  Watson expects the organization to be responsible for his actions, he is basically telling the NFL that they are at risk for future misconduct.  What else can the NFL do at this point but suspend Watson indefinitely from any NFL facility until the risk is mitigated?  

 
sneakerfreak said:
I wonder how his teammates and opponents look at this and what it does to locker room dynamics. When (if?) he plays again I can't help wondering if he will be treated differently and certainly with less respect. Trash talk will be next level (tackling too I guess). Who would want to catch his balls? (pun intended)
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you assume his teammates are choir boys with no strange habits.

if he can win games, nobody cares

 
Perhaps deserving of its own thread and discussion but what role or punishment is going to be handed down to the Houston Texans which had to know what was going on and also were complicit if providing contracts or letterhead linking them to the 24 victims that have come forward. 

How many games do the Houston Texans get suspended for?

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Perhaps deserving of its own thread and discussion but what role or punishment is going to be handed down to the Houston Texans which had to know what was going on and also were complicit if providing contracts or letterhead linking them to the 24 victims that have come forward. 

How many games do the Houston Texans get suspended for?
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The Texans absolutely pulling the wool down over the Browns and unloading this guy for all those picks is going to go down as a historic train robbery 

 
Capella said:
The Texans absolutely pulling the wool down over the Browns and unloading this guy for all those picks is going to go down as a historic train robbery 
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It’s like a dude in your FF league hearing his RB has a torn ACL from a friend of a friend of the team trainer, and he rushes to offer him to every other team in your league before the really bad news hits. 

That said, the Browns look the absolute worst here - they knew how bad it was and paid Watson a boatload of money anyway. 

 
Grid71 said:
Wrapped in barbed wire named her Lucille

Joking aside, he basically admits to habitual sexual misconduct in his suit vs the Texans right? Blames the organization for not taking responsibility to prevent his behavior. And allegedly facilitate by setting him up with private massage sessions in hotel rooms fully aware of how he behaves.

Going public, he has taken this to the Shield level.  Watson expects the organization to be responsible for his actions, he is basically telling the NFL that they are at risk for future misconduct.  What else can the NFL do at this point but suspend Watson indefinitely from any NFL facility until the risk is mitigated?  
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Deshaun isn't suing the Texans. One (so far) of the women is.

From the articles, the Texans got Deshaun a membership at a hotel that has spa facilities on its complex that he used for workouts and such, and that included access to a room, in which two (I believe that's the number I've seen) of the women gave him massages that led to them suing him.

The Texans contract to have 4 masseuses available for treating the team. They are included in the NY Times count of 66 women that Deshaun has gotten massages from, but none are (that I've heard) plaintiffs suing him.

In the one suit that has included the Texans, it mentions a statement from the owner of the place that contracts those 4 masseuses as having "complained to the Texans that Watson was seeking out unqualified strangers for massages via Instagram,” and that “Watson was putting himself in danger of contracting Covid, or getting himself sued.”

It also states the owners as saying she was aware that Watson had some sort of sex with 2 women from her spa. It does not say that she informed the Texans of this.  Which, I'm not a lawyer but I imagine those details of what exactly was and wasn't said are going to probably be pretty important, which I'll get back to.

At some point along the way, a non-connected massage therapist that alleges she was harassed had put some stuff on Instagram about Deshaun. He'd told the team's head of security. We don't know what the conversation covered, but he gave Watson a boiler plate NDA.

As far as the one suit against the Texans so far then, it is saying they provided him the NDA which he used with that plaintiff, that the massage took place in the room that they'd made available for use at the hotel/spa, and that they had supplied a massage table. 

As I understand it from our lawyers who have posted, this kind of lawsuit comes down to either "they did know" or "they should have known" in order to be able to get a judgment.  I would imagine a lot of the case is going to turn around, did they know or have reason to believe Watson was sexually harassing. I would not think just "He's getting a lot of massages from a lot of women" would be the issue. They would have to have reason to believe there was a pattern of conduct that included illegal sexual harassment, whether criminal or civil.

Resident lawyers, correct me where needed.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
It’s like a dude in your FF league hearing his RB has a torn ACL from a friend of a friend of the team trainer, and he rushes to offer him to every other team in your league before the really bad news hits. 

That said, the Browns look the absolute worst here - they knew how bad it was and paid Watson a boatload of money anyway. 
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Yes - however the browns are a multi-billion dollar organization who should have had multiple former fbi and/or cia agents on staff who could investigate these claims. It’s insane they just ran headfirst into this with no background. 

 
Obie Wan said:
The NFL specifically changed the CBA to fix a fairness problem that they were forced to act.

They did it by specifically adding an "independent" trained judge and specifically paid her to be the "independent" arbitrator.

and now the league is going to play games in the media to stack the deck and manipulate the outcome, on top of controlling the investigation and evidence presented.

Likely that any judge not bought and paid for, will be extremely pissed they have been played.

but then again, that could be the NFL's plan all along, as a few have said the NFL don't want to suspend him, but need cover from the Twitter bots (real football fans don't care)

this is how they defer it till next year
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Arbitration clauses in a CBA are extremely common. This one has probably been in place forever. The two parties - NFL and NFLPA - jointly select the arbitrator and share the cost. It would be extremely odd if an arbitrator were selected and paid by  one party to the dispute. If you have a reference for that I'd like to see it because it would make the process a joke IMO. My understanding in this case is they chose a retired federal judge - which is also extremely common.

 
Grid71 said:
Wrapped in barbed wire named her Lucille

Joking aside, he basically admits to habitual sexual misconduct in his suit vs the Texans right? Blames the organization for not taking responsibility to prevent his behavior. And allegedly facilitate by setting him up with private massage sessions in hotel rooms fully aware of how he behaves.

Going public, he has taken this to the Shield level.  Watson expects the organization to be responsible for his actions, he is basically telling the NFL that they are at risk for future misconduct.  What else can the NFL do at this point but suspend Watson indefinitely from any NFL facility until the risk is mitigated?  
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bolded I think is the real issue.....and might be hard to prove.....how do we know they were "fully aware" of what he was doing in these sessions....?

basically what I am saying is that I don't think it is out of bounds that the team provided a place for their star QB to receive massages....and massage equipment and even NDA's for that matter....I'm sure there are many players that get "extra perks" from their teams.....heck, I think some are written into their contracts....

if they were in fact "fully aware" of what was going on and did nothing then sure you can say they enabled it.....but I think we are assuming the Texans knew everything that was happening, and I'm not sure that's the case....or at least what they can say because I'm not sure there will be a "smoking gun" moment where they will be able to prove that the Texans knew the full extent of what was happening in these sessions....

 
Ministry of Pain said:
Perhaps deserving of its own thread and discussion but what role or punishment is going to be handed down to the Houston Texans which had to know what was going on and also were complicit if providing contracts or letterhead linking them to the 24 victims that have come forward. 

How many games do the Houston Texans get suspended for?
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everybody thinking they "had to know" is different then proving that they did in fact "know" the full extent of what was going on in these sessions....

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Obie Wan said:
what could go wrong in trying to manipulate a judge

clearly the league has been priming the pump with talk of maximum penalties

Judge may not be pleased with the NFL's tactics and decide no discipline at this time, until the trials conclude
Click to expand...


In the story I saw, the information about what punishment the league is recommending was attributed to someone with ties to the NFLPA, not the the NFL.

(The NFL formally notified both the Disciplinary Officer and the NFLPA of its recommendation nine days ago.)
Click to expand...


This makes sense. If the arbitration starts today, it would be expected that the parties would have made their written submissions to the arbitrator some time ago. In some cases those are confidential but in many cases the written submissions are shared with the other side. I don't doubt one or both sides are leaking information for PR purposes, but its not likely intended to affect the arbitrator's decision.

 
sneakerfreak said:
I wonder how his teammates and opponents look at this and what it does to locker room dynamics. When (if?) he plays again I can't help wondering if he will be treated differently and certainly with less respect. Trash talk will be next level (tackling too I guess). Who would want to catch his balls? (pun intended)
Click to expand...


I've thought of this and my guess is what most people talk about or focus on majority of his teammates won't care and really is not a great fodder for trash talking Watson. They may think he's a pervert but don't expect him to catch much heat inside the locker room or by visiting teams. Except for one thing.

That would be multiple mentions in the lawsuits that he basically loves his glutes worked on and not sure another way to put this but it sounded like you could not go deep enough for his taste.

I could sure see  something like an opponent running back a pick 6 on him and throwing down a Happy Baby yoga pose as their end zone celebration.

 
menobrown said:
I've thought of this and my guess is what most people talk about or focus on majority of his teammates won't care and really is not a great fodder for trash talking Watson. They may think he's a pervert but don't expect him to catch much heat inside the locker room or by visiting teams. Except for one thing.

That would be multiple mentions in the lawsuits that he basically loves his glutes worked on and not sure another way to put this but it sounded like you could not go deep enough for his taste.

I could sure see  something like an opponent running back a pick 6 on him and throwing down a Happy Baby yoga pose as their end zone celebration.
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That would be epic

 
Capella said:
Yes - however the browns are a multi-billion dollar organization who should have had multiple former fbi and/or cia agents on staff who could investigate these claims. It’s insane they just ran headfirst into this with no background. 
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I suspect that we may eventually learn that they knew, and simply didn’t care.

His contract seems to reflect that they expected a lengthy suspension in his 1st year. I know NFL contracts are often back-loaded, but Watson’s is pretty extreme. 

 
menobrown said:
I've thought of this and my guess is what most people talk about or focus on majority of his teammates won't care and really is not a great fodder for trash talking Watson. They may think he's a pervert but don't expect him to catch much heat inside the locker room or by visiting teams. Except for one thing.
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if I’m in the stands and the Browns are in town with Watson at the helm, I’m holding up a banner with a picture of baby lotion & a peach on it all day. 

menobrown said:
I could sure see  something like an opponent running back a pick 6 on him and throwing down a Happy Baby yoga pose as their end zone celebration.
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I’m not sure I’ve ever laughed harder at a post on this forum. Well done, sir or madame. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Summer Wheat said:
Been reading up on Watson, looks like he is a bonafide pervert who really needs help.
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Honestly that's kinda where I'm at on this one at this point.  It's quite sad and depressing.  His behavior absolutely warrants punishment (financial, game suspensions etc), assuming the allegations are at least mostly true, but it really reads like this guy has a serious problem.  I hope the women here get their fair compensation, retribution, etc., but it's looking clear that he needs some mental help too when all is said and done.

 
on the Texans angle of this mess....is there a smoking gun that officially says/proves....

"this is when we know the Texans (or at least one person within the organization) were made aware of his inappropriate acts in his massage sessions.... and they did nothing"....and who exactly it was that notified them....?....and when?

I haven't seen anything indicating there is such a smoking gun....

big difference between thinking they "had to know" something inappropriate was going on or "should have known" something inappropriate was going on....and actually proving that they in fact "did" know something inappropriate was going on....

simply providing a location, equipment, and NDA's.... as much as we think that shows enabling doesn't really mean they knew of the inappropriate things and just turned and looked the other way....

 
Steve Tasker said:
Honestly that's kinda where I'm at on this one at this point.  It's quite sad and depressing.  His behavior absolutely warrants punishment (financial, game suspensions etc), assuming the allegations are at least mostly true, but it really reads like this guy has a serious problem.  I hope the women here get their fair compensation, retribution, etc., but it's looking clear that he needs some mental help too when all is said and done.
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I saw a discussion on TV that one of the stipulations in the settlement talks with the league was that Watson had to be actively enrolled and participating in therapy / counseling throughout his suspension. However, I have yet to see that in an article or mentioned anywhere else. Just throwing that out there that that might be part of the league's requirement . . . and that's another way for an indefinite suspension to drag out longer (not complying to the terms for reinstatement).

 
Stinkin Ref said:
on the Texans angle of this mess....is there a smoking gun that officially says/proves....

"this is when we know the Texans (or at least one person within the organization) were made aware of his inappropriate acts in his massage sessions.... and they did nothing"....and who exactly it was that notified them....?....and when?

I haven't seen anything indicating there is such a smoking gun....

big difference between thinking they "had to know" something inappropriate was going on or "should have known" something inappropriate was going on....and actually proving that they in fact "did" know something inappropriate was going on....

simply providing a location, equipment, and NDA's.... as much as we think that shows enabling doesn't really mean they knew of the inappropriate things and just turned and looked the other way....
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IIRC, several of the massage therapists contacted the Texans directly to complain about Watson's inappropriate behavior. Would that constitute a smoking gun, as the same situations happened multiple times after that?

 
Anarchy99 said:
IIRC, several of the massage therapists contacted the Texans directly to complain about Watson's inappropriate behavior. Would that constitute a smoking gun, as the same situations happened multiple times after that?
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Can you find a link for that?  Searched and don't see it anywhere. I'd expect it would have stood out since the team said they didn't know about sexual harassment until the word of the lawsuit hit and that would have been a direct contradiction that I'd think would have drawn a lot of focus.

 
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