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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Capella
Footballguy
They have 10 points bro
-OZ-
Footballguy
As long as you’re happy with the ending.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Too many dropped TD passes
TampaMike19
Footballguy
This guy sucks. - Bob barker
Soulfly3
Footballguy
his receivers let him down, but hard to blame them or anyone in that weather. was an ugly game.
but we're gonna have those kinds of games every year (maybe not that extreme, but some bad weather games) so he needs to get used to it and deliver.
fact is, i still see progress and a winning qb. like i said, next season can't come soon enough... neither can this sunday.
but we're gonna have those kinds of games every year (maybe not that extreme, but some bad weather games) so he needs to get used to it and deliver.
fact is, i still see progress and a winning qb. like i said, next season can't come soon enough... neither can this sunday.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
im sure he wouldnt mind getting tugged again...
but 2yrs out of the game in a completely new system, city and team.... ya, i think next season is his true self.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I guess the Browns don't understand what fully guaranteed means.
Why would Watson help them out other than to convert salaries into bonuses that go directly into his account?
This is similar to an MLB deal where even if your guy bats .240 after he inks a $250M deal, you don't get to restructure the contract, it's guaranteed.
Appreciate the news link.
The bolded is exactly what he is talking about doing. This is standard, language is in every players contract that allows teams to do this without needing consent of the player. Not that they'd ever really argue about having a portion of their salary kicked into a bonus and paid out quicker.
Watson has 4 years remaining on his contract. Each of those years he has exactly a $46m guaranteed base salary and each of those years his bonus that was paid out hits the cap for another $8.993M for a salary cap hit of $54.993M each of the next 4 years.
Since the cap is increasing each year it only makes sense to keep trying to lower his current $54.993M cap hit now and take the hit later. So they are going to take a portion, maybe a lot or most, of his $46m base bay and convert it to a bonus and spread it out.
They might have to extend him in 2 years because the cap hit at the end of the 4 years he's got left on his contract is going to be freaking enormous.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Excellent reply.
Broad view explanation and the details on how restructures work.
--------------------
How The Cleveland Browns Can Create $93,864,800 Of Cap Space Without Cutting Anyone...
...A restructure is taking a player's base salary or roster bonus and converting it to a signing bonus.
- In terms of payment the player is getting the same amount of money
- This doesn't impact the number of years a player is signed for
- A player gets their salary above the minimum which is usually earned for each week paid upfront
- The team gets a short-term salary cap benefit as their current year number goes down
- This is balanced by future rises in the salary cap, there is no such thing as free money
...Let us look at Deshaun Watson's deal as it is a good example of how a restructure works, ...
----------------------
Go to the link for the full read and detailed description.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
What is this really going to accomplish? Sure, they can redistribute what Watson will get paid each year . . . or add some dummy years to his contract. That will just result in kicking his cap hit further down the road. They might be able to extend a player or two now, but on the backside of Watson's deal they could have to cut a player or two to pay Watson. I'm guessing Watson is not going to give money back to the Browns and take a pay cut.
isn't kick the can down the road the favorite salary cap game that teams play
Yes and no player has to "be open" to it. It's just paying them upfront instead and does not need their permission to do that.
The way some people have been reporting this has been annoying.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well, if you want to talk about window of opportunity, itz these next couple years. It would make all the sense in the world to go all out to reduce the cap 2023 and 2024
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Guess we will have to wait and see how they break out the cap charges. As of now, Watson carries a $55M cap hit for the next 4 seasons. They could save $30M against the cap this year by converting $30M of that into a cash bonus. That would up his cap hit to $65M for the next three years (or another combination / allocation). I get the intent and the strategy, but usually things don't work out well when teams starting using the cap as a credit card. It worked for the Rams (going all in for a season and winning the SB), but the fall out is ending up with a lot of bloated contracts, cap issues, and player cuts.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Pretty sure the Rams would take that 100 times out of 100
massraider
Footballguy
For real.
You might have to cut someone in three years!!!!!
----Scares no one
You might have to cut someone in three years!!!!!
----Scares no one
-OZ-
Footballguy
Rebuilding after there’s a trophy in the case seems a LOT more fun than staying in the middle. Or constantly building.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If we win a SB, we can go 0-17 the next decade with smiles on all our faces.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I get it . . . no one cares what you have to do or how much you have to spend when you win. Lots of teams have tried that model, and not many of them have been successful. It really won't make much difference, as teams will can a coaching staff and an administration for not winning anyway (and leave the mess for someone else to clean up).
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I kinda like when my team tries to win for once. Call me crazy.
If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Ok. What's the alternative? Lose while not trying to win?
For some reason when teams TRY and win, but lose, they get hammered for it. But, when they just go with the flow and lose, it's all roses. Interesting.
Kevrunner
Footballguy
A team cannot restructure a player’s contract without the player agreeing to do so. A perfect example is when Tyreek refused to restructure with the Chiefs, for whatever reasons, Tyreek wasn’t open to it. For a team to restructure a player’s contract, they do need the player’s permission, so Watson has to be open to it.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I remember when people called the Miami Heat a failure for only winning two titles with Lebron. What exactly was their alternative?? Not sign him and never win one?
I suppose I rather my team get roasted for losing in the finals than not get talked about at all as a mediocre team.
I suppose I rather my team get roasted for losing in the finals than not get talked about at all as a mediocre team.
That's false. It's standard language in all contracts, I have heard the clause but forgot it, that enables any team to convert base salary to a bonus. If Tryeek refused a restructure it was something else then that.
Can't find the clause, have heard it discussed, here is a brief explanation: https://overthecap.com/restructure
There are two types of restructuring:
- A simple restructure converts payments into prorated signing bonuses within the confines of the remainder of the contract. Teams typically have the ability to unilaterally execute simple restructures without any action necessary from the player.
- A maximum restructure increases the amount of cap space via conversion into prorated signing bonuses by either extending the contract or by adding void years to a contract, years that do not extend the contract but are only used as placeholders for the proration. Maximum restructures are typically considered a renegotiation of the contract that requires the player's consent to execute.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
The issue the rest of the league (and other teams fans) have is that CLE went all in for a crazy, 100% guaranteed contract on a player that was essentially persona non grata (and many feel not worth the contract) . . . in addition to sending a boatload of picks in the process. We will have to wait and see how it all turns out, but there are likely a bunch of people that either want Watson to fail or think his contract will blow up in the Browns face (and be a reason why they don't win). Watson's contract is now the benchmark for other QB contracts, and that isn't going over well with some people.
The Browns have tried lots of QBs over the years and haven't gotten great production from those players (pre-SB notwithstanding). IMO, they would be in decent shape and a contender if Watson put up numbers like he did in HOU (a year like 4800/33/7). The problem is, no QB has put up those numbers playing for the Browns. Sipe was the only Browns QB to break 4K yards passing or throw for 30 TD. They've only had 7 guys throw for 3600 yards OR 26+ TD in a season (in 75 years).
I hardly got to see Watson play in HOU, and I generally don't get to watch the Browns (their games are rarely on in my area). Hard for me to have much opinion on either given that CLE doesn't usually get premium tv game slots. But I feel for Browns fans. They definitely are on my list of franchises I root for if my local team is out of the running.
As for your comment on trying to win . . . obviously that's the name of the game and what every franchise is doing. It's the process of trying to win and what the best methods are that every team goes through, and some teams are more successful than others. If I were the Browns GM, I wouldn't have given Watson that contract (and I probably wouldn't have an interest in rostering him in the first place). But I'm not, and they did, so now we have to see what happens moving forward.
It's tough cycling through 9 coaches in 15 years and not landing on a lot of premium draft picks. Getting top players and coaches to come to CLE is a challenge, and it's always a new regime that gets a really short window to fix things.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
What exactly is your point that you are trying to make?
Should they have just kept Baker and sucked for sure for a long time?
Kevrunner
Footballguy
Thanks, I see where I was wrong, Tyreek didn’t want to restructure because it was adding void years to his contract which he was against. Tyreek was interested in a contract extension. If it was just a “simple restructure”, the Chiefs could have done it automatically without his approval as you clearly showed in your post. As long as the Browns just want a simple restructure, Watson doesnt have any say. I guess Deshaun is giving his approval because the Browns are interested in more than just a simple restructure.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Yep. The Browns restructuring Watson's contract in March 2023 was obvious in March 2022 and it will be done again in March 2024.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Although they were two “lesser” QBs, neither Carr or Geno got full guarantees. I don’t think most teams want to model themselves after the Browns. This will be a thing, until it’s not.
yellowdog
Footballguy
From Matthew Berry's "23 Most Interesting Things Heard At The Combine" :
Cleveland's offense is going to be really interesting next year. Look for the Browns to add a speed wide receiver this off-season to go with Amari Cooper. One source told me “They are really going to open up the offense. Go five wide. Pass a lot. This is going to be Deshaun Watson's offense, not Nick Chubb's. They will pass a lot more than folks expect.”
I was told to go look at the Browns-Steelers game from Week 18. In that game, the opening kickoff temperature was in the 30's. Cold as hell and the Over/Under was 39.5. People expected a low scoring, cold weather, typical AFC North game. Instead, even as cold and windy as the conditions were, Cleveland threw it 29 times while Nick Chubb ran it 12 times in a 28-14 loss for the Browns. Yes, they were down, but my source said that will be much closer to the norm for Cleveland next year. Tons of passing attempts for Watson (likely closer to 40 a game in reasonable weather) with like 12 rushing attempts for Chubb and maybe a few touches for Jerome Ford.
Cleveland's offense is going to be really interesting next year. Look for the Browns to add a speed wide receiver this off-season to go with Amari Cooper. One source told me “They are really going to open up the offense. Go five wide. Pass a lot. This is going to be Deshaun Watson's offense, not Nick Chubb's. They will pass a lot more than folks expect.”
I was told to go look at the Browns-Steelers game from Week 18. In that game, the opening kickoff temperature was in the 30's. Cold as hell and the Over/Under was 39.5. People expected a low scoring, cold weather, typical AFC North game. Instead, even as cold and windy as the conditions were, Cleveland threw it 29 times while Nick Chubb ran it 12 times in a 28-14 loss for the Browns. Yes, they were down, but my source said that will be much closer to the norm for Cleveland next year. Tons of passing attempts for Watson (likely closer to 40 a game in reasonable weather) with like 12 rushing attempts for Chubb and maybe a few touches for Jerome Ford.
Drake Hater
Footballguy
This is the kind of stuff I hope everyone in my league takes to heart so they avoid drafting Chubb, allowing me to scoop him on the sly.
They got blown out by a mediocre at best team that game, and that's what they want to do more of? Oof...
-OZ-
Footballguy
From Matthew Berry's "23 Most Interesting Things Heard At The Combine" :
“Let’s take the ball away from our best player”
I get that he was rusty, but in no way did Watson look like he should take the ball more away from one of the best running backs in the game.
Browns gotta brown.
“Let’s take the ball away from our best player”
I get that he was rusty, but in no way did Watson look like he should take the ball more away from one of the best running backs in the game.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
To be fair we have no idea who the source was and what he really knows.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Unfortunately, the guy who wrote this and got credit as the source isn't a Browns beat reporter, doesn't live in Ohio, isn't even an NFL writer, he covers MLB and lives in LA.
He ripped off the work of Jack Duffin who has written numerous scenarios of how the Browns can restructure Watson and other contracts to free up tens of millions of dollars and has had pinned to the top of his twitter page for months.
Jack Duffin deserves credit.
=====================
Pinned Tweet
Jack Duffin
@JackDuffin
#Browns Current Cap Space ($14,049,131)
ERFA Tenders Graham $0.94m Stille $0.87m Restructures Watson +$35.936m Garrett +$12.936m Teller +$9.136m Bitonio +$7.868m FA Cap Space $51,076,909 
June 2nd JJ3 +$9.75m Don’t need permission to restructure!How The Cleveland Browns Can Create $93,864,800 Of Cap Space Without Cutting Anyone, But Should They?
=============
Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
Which is what
@JackDuffin
has been writing
@TheOBR
for about 11 months.
Quote Tweet
ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
The Browns have the automatic right to restructure Deshaun Watson's contract, if they want; the power to do so comes from the contract he signed last year. https://wp.me/pbBqYq-cy90
==============
Jack Duffin
@JackDuffin
For anyone on #BrownsTwitter this should come as no surprise, we’ve been discussing this for over a year
GregR
Footballguy
There's both a mix of irony and causality loop that's interesting about the Watson thing to me.
Instead of giving up three 1sts, a 3rd, a 4th, swapping a 4th for 6th, and also giving a monster guaranteed contract, Cleveland could have waited one more season and signed Lamar Jackson away from the Ravens and had it just cost them the contract and two 1sts.
Though on the causality front, it was their contract they gave Watson that perhaps led to Lamar Jackson even being available. Without that, would he have agreed to a more reasonable contract offer from Baltimore and avoided the tag? Hard to say, quite possibly he wouldn't be available though.
Either way, interesting the way it continues to play out. I suppose if Jackson ends up leaving the division because of it, that would be an unintended positive of the Browns move.
Instead of giving up three 1sts, a 3rd, a 4th, swapping a 4th for 6th, and also giving a monster guaranteed contract, Cleveland could have waited one more season and signed Lamar Jackson away from the Ravens and had it just cost them the contract and two 1sts.
Though on the causality front, it was their contract they gave Watson that perhaps led to Lamar Jackson even being available. Without that, would he have agreed to a more reasonable contract offer from Baltimore and avoided the tag? Hard to say, quite possibly he wouldn't be available though.
Either way, interesting the way it continues to play out. I suppose if Jackson ends up leaving the division because of it, that would be an unintended positive of the Browns move.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You say this now, but listen to Warriors or SF Giants fans this year.
Whenever there’s a price to pay, fanbases never take losing well.
I believe you now. I just believe you’ll sound a lot different if 0-17 actually happens.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You are 100% wrong then.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
For your (and all Browns fans) sake, I hope those things come to pass so we can find out.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
It happened with the Cavs. Already evidence of itFor your (and all Browns fans) sake, I hope those things come to pass so we can find out.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You’re unique then, because I know a bunch of extra salty bitter Browns fans who are still sore over LeBron going to Miami.It happened with the Cavs. Already evidence of itFor your (and all Browns fans) sake, I hope those things come to pass so we can find out.
Now, to be fair, that might be more because of what could have been had he stayed in CLE (and the who “decision” fiasco).
-OZ-
Footballguy
For your (and all Browns fans) sake, I hope those things come to pass so we can find out.
I’ll speak for every fan of every other team. Let’s Hope they just skip the ship and go 0-17 for the next decade.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don’t think we’ll ever get to see how Browns fans act after winning the Super Bowl.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Me either unfortunatelyI don’t think we’ll ever get to see how Browns fans act after winning the Super Bowl.
