Smack Tripper
Footballguy
He can and likely will restructure as opportunities become available, but if they have the money to pay him now he should get what he can
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QB Joe Burrow, CIN (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
zamboni
Footballguy
100%. Teams can and do salary cap gymnastics when they need to in order to get guys they want.
massraider
Footballguy
Man it's a shame he doesn't care about winning.
rockaction
Footballguy
Still don't see how you can't criticize a guy for eating up the cap. It's just a fact. There is a limit to cap gymnastics. Guys that want to win badly enough figure out cap-friendly ways to do it. Mahomes is getting less than he's worth and signed a deal replete with roster bonuses that aren't guaranteed money.
Why couldn't Burrow?
Why couldn't Burrow?
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Yeah. Look at Kelce’s deal coupled with Mahomes. And the fact that they like winning Super Bowls.
rockaction
Footballguy
One thing I will say is they've both alluded to the fact that they'd like to make more. They just haven't pushed the issue. One thing you hope is that it doesn't embitter them. But yeah, I need to see the logistics of Burrow's deal before I comment too strongly.
massraider
Footballguy
You wanna win with an expensive QB?
Draft better.
They knew he was was good, they knew he was gonna cost. Why do QBs need to give up millions to help front offices who make bad investments?
What did KC get with Mahomes savings? Juju?Hooray cap space
eighsse2
Footballguy
Genuinely asking, does the money being unguaranteed actually help anything? If Mahomes stays healthy and plays all his years, he gets all the money, right? And it all hits the cap?
rockaction
Footballguy
That's probably a poor example to use given that JuJu had a good year and we saw what just happened the other night in KC. Weird, even, that you'd use KC as an example.
Your comment is sort of implying something that doesn't happen. It's not like the Minnesota Twins of Carl Pohlad yore whereby accepting a lesser contract you're giving ownership a break and letting the front office line its own pockets at your expense. There's a zero-sum game you have with the other players on your own squad.
Now as to your literal point, he should know that any front office is limited in both knowledge and in efficacy of their decisions based on predictions. Are some F.O.'s better than others at what they do? Sure. But It's not like the Bengals' FO has been bad at their job. At all. They've been quite good, in fact, roster construction and the OL notwithstanding. How can you quibble with an F.O. that just went to the Super Bowl and lost in the AFC Championship Game because of a bad penalty? You really can't quibble too drastically.
I get wanting the guaranteed money and that it might only come once, but you've gotta know that you might not be winning in the not-so-distant future if you can't re-sign Higgins and Chase and make necessary improvements to the offensive line. Not to mention their defense yet, which is where they've spent a lot of their savings on Burrow not eating into the cap yet.
I don't know. Not everything is a labor issue where labor and management are at odds. Perhaps that's just our worldview colliding, but I really don't see how distributing your cap money to fellow players "help(s) a front ofice who make(s) bad investments" when the investments they've made have been top notch.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is the best answer I got with a quick search. I know front offices desire it. The math is a bit stickier for me.
Unlike a signing bonus, the amount of a roster bonus is not prorated over the lifetime of a player's contract. Thus, roster bonuses are often used by teams that prefer to front-load the salary cap impact of a contract and lessen the impact on future years
massraider
Footballguy
Seems to me like people want all the top QBs to take less money for their teams whether the team made top notch investments or not.
The top QBs cost what they cost for a reason. teams are not walking away from big QBs because the money can be spent better elsewhere. Khalil Herbert averaged 6 yards a carry because Justin Fields. He's not a 6 ypc running back. So the QB can get 5 mill/year [production out of 2 mill/year players. That's why they get paid.
rockaction
Footballguy
Every organization wants to run more efficiently. The rub you seem to have is that the idiots are running the show, why should anyone bail them out? I don't really know what to tell you. KC and Cincinnati are awfully good examples of teams doing right, personnel-wise, by their QBs. Yes, the Bengals OL has been suspect. So was KC's in that Tampa SB because they were hurt. But in general, you can't quibble with the results, notwithstanding the egregious CEH pick that really had me doubting for a minute if Brett Veach wasn't the product of lucking into Mahomes and John Dorsey's holdovers.
I also think what you get when the average fan speaks about wanting to keep QB salaries down is threefold in its outlook.
One, the average fan can't comprehend the salary to begin with. Seems unfair in a world where teachers and workers can't get paid a decent buck.
Secondly, if they can, they can't comprehend why a QB makes so much more than an inside linebacker or running back because the average fan views a team as a meritocratic concept where teammates are generally (generally) holding each other in equal regard and importance to the team. Now, the past twenty or thirty years has sort of disproven this in the NFL, but the average fan still holds basic concepts like these dear.
And thirdly, the average fan wants to win and knows that if the quarterback takes all of the pie, it's going to be harder to do so. So that's probably why you see so many people arguing for the QB to take less -- so the team and, in turn, the fan can win.
rockaction
Footballguy
And not every fan satisfies condition one, which I think is where your distrust in the fan asking somebody like Burrow to take less money comes from. Some of us are fine or have made peace with the exorbitant salaries of athletes. It's the third one that really takes precedence for most fans, I think. They want a hometown or affiliated winner.
eighsse2
Footballguy
Honestly as a Bengals fan, though I would be ecstatic if Burrow said "I'm going to take half the going rate, increase my expected career Super Bowl wins by 53%, and with endorsement money and investing, be a billionaire by age 40. I'll be just fine." But at the same time, 25% of current cap (could be significantly less than 25% in the later years of the contract, due to cap increases) for an asset as critical as Joe? I couldn't possibly not just be happy for him.
massraider
Footballguy
I agree.
That's not a good reason to ask one guy to take less millions. It's a common reason. it's not a realistic one.
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, it's a pretty tough question to ask or proposition to posit to someone. That they should take less, that is. I wish I could find Henry Ford's sterling dissection of the view that Tom Brady played for less money. He got the details of Brady's contract and worked out mathematically how it really wasn't less money in the end, just team-friendly. In no way did Brady lose money off his deals, Ford argued.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Cap will increase and the team will do their salary cap wizardry. Having joe burrow is such an advantage over the field in real life…it’s why he’s what he’s worth
massraider
Footballguy
And when you sign a guy to a long term deal, you can plan ahead.
Jalen Hurts' new contract isn't a problem for the next few years. His cap numbers the next few years: 6.1 million, 13.5 million, 21.7 million, 31.7 million
People took the rookie contract thing waaaaay too far.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Bad weather, too much rust/too little preparation and the OL still sucks.
They were comatose in week 1 last year as well.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Absolute ****ing disaster lol so much for what I said above for this week at least
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Looks hurt to me; everything throw was like a shot put, like he couldn’t step into anything. Zero slants in the time I watched
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Holy **** what was that??? Worse than last year.
The Frankman
Footballguy
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Just inexcusable to have this stat line lol
gladee88er
Footballguy
That was me. I was only shooting for 75 yards, so it was a decent day! I couldn't help it Higgins couldn't catch anything.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Only week one and I am worried
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Joe Burrow had a pretty harsh looking calf issue early in camp, he was shut down until right before Week 1 opener.
I am concerned after watching Rodgers and his Achilles rupture, he also had a calf issue he dealt with all summer
And we all remember Kevin Durant for Golden State, had a calf issue and then he ruptures his Achilles
I don't know that Burrow is any more of a risk but calf issues can lead to Achilles issues, wish Cinci would slow their roll
The contract to him being cleared to Week 1 all felt very rushed.
I am concerned after watching Rodgers and his Achilles rupture, he also had a calf issue he dealt with all summer
And we all remember Kevin Durant for Golden State, had a calf issue and then he ruptures his Achilles
I don't know that Burrow is any more of a risk but calf issues can lead to Achilles issues, wish Cinci would slow their roll
The contract to him being cleared to Week 1 all felt very rushed.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I agree with this 100%. One of our local sports talk guys has been talking about this for awhile. Not just on Burrow but other athletes and how calf injuries are sometimes pre-cursors to achilles injuries.
Proteus
Footballguy
It feels like the “is it rust” or “is he still injured” debate needs more attention.
But…there’s little to suggest everything’s gonna suddenly be alright, and I’m tempted to sit Higgins…probably won’t…but can anyone find a reason for optimism that we’re not in for another horrible stinker this week?
But…there’s little to suggest everything’s gonna suddenly be alright, and I’m tempted to sit Higgins…probably won’t…but can anyone find a reason for optimism that we’re not in for another horrible stinker this week?
eighsse2
Footballguy
Biased Bengals fan, but I wouldn't be particularly worried about the Bengals offense, even as soon as this week. Obviously depends who you have that can start in his stead.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
The Achilles injury is from that worthless fake turf combined with the real grass cleats these guys still wear. It's mind boggling how little attention the NFL, teams, and shoe companies pay to this problem. Even the "turf" shoes are poorly designed for turf. Unlike real grass, if one of your outer studs gets caught up, there is zero give and it's an ankle sprain at best, torn ACL or ruptured Achilles or Broken bones at worst.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
Anyone sitting him?
Regret not playing cousins over him last bjght
Have Richardson in another league and I think I’m going with a rich
Regret not playing cousins over him last bjght
Have Richardson in another league and I think I’m going with a rich
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s what I’m lookin at. IIRC Mullen is also out still.
Plus if they go 0-2 in the division to start the season it’s a massive uphill battle.
And the Ravens have a limited Andrews and no Dobbins.
I’m feeling a CIN win & cover.
Catbird
Footballguy
I'm thinking 80% Burrow plays well but not great for a CIN win and 20% that the calf is still stiff, he blows out his Achilles, is done for this year and never the same. I hope/wish they would rest him until he is fully healthy and not risk everything they have to increase their chances in the next couple of games.
eighsse2
Footballguy
20% that I quit football for life and go live in a hole in the ground? Seems a little high.
Streetduck
Footballguy
Joe Burrow has a 101.0 passer rating with 1,556 yards 9 TD's and 3 Int's. in 5 games vs the Ravens in his career.
"You make the choice"
styleride85
Footballguy
so 0% chance that Baltimore wins and Burrow's career isn't basically over? lol
eighsse2
Footballguy
Don't overthink it. Actually just don't think it.
styleride85
Footballguy
I think if there was even a 10% chance that he tears his Achillies this game, no chance cinci would play him
eighsse2
Footballguy
I'm a Bengals fan and have no fantasy investment in any Bengals players, and sitting Burrow would not even be a consideration. Granted, I'm not a doctor either, and obviously the team knows a lot more about his condition and risk than I do.
styleride85
Footballguy
Agree. The soft part of their schedule is coming up, and normally I'd think maybe they just sit him for 5 weeks until after their bye (Rams, Titans, Cardinals, Seahawks), but with the 0-2 start, they can't afford to go 2-2 in those games, plus those teams are all seeming better than originally expected.
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