QB Russell Wilson, PIT (3 Viewers)

[Stoneworker]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

Those numbers are completely misleading. Wilson's passer rating and comp % were high because the vast majority of his throws were either the first read or checkdowns. His ypr was bottom 1/3 of the league.

Russ couldn't execute the coach's offense any better than Jarrett Stidham could. For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more than half that in just two games.

Wilson is elite off-platform and 2-min drill, but his primary weaknesses of below-average ability reading the field/defenses, working through progressions, anticipating throwing lanes, and complete lack of use of the middle of the field meant that for over half the game last year the Broncos offense was completely stifled.

How does that "fall on Payton?"

 

[travdogg]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

25% of the league is only 8 teams though. At least 5 and possibly 6 of which sound like they’re about to draft rookies to be their starter. Two will have Baker or Cousins. Another is likely to be Fields.

Who’s his market?

I think he'd be a clear upgrade for:
Falcons
Raiders
Patriots
Giants
Steelers
Commanders

Those are all teams where Wilson could be the starter in 2024 no questions asked.

Then there are teams that are likely to draft a guy, but not sign one, like:
Bears
Broncos
Rams
Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)
Jets (maybe? Possible trade?)
Seahawks

That's 12 teams I could see with new QBs. I don't think its likely all the top-6 rookies are starting this season. I'm assuming Baker stays in TB.

I still think the most likely spot is either Atlanta (if they can't get Cousins) or Vegas.

 

[Grahamburn]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

25% of the league is only 8 teams though. At least 5 and possibly 6 of which sound like they’re about to draft rookies to be their starter. Two will have Baker or Cousins. Another is likely to be Fields.

Who’s his market?

One of those teams who doesn't want to draft the 5th or 6th QB to hitch their employment to

I get that. Just don’t really see the fit anywhere.

 

[Tau837]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

25% of the league is only 8 teams though. At least 5 and possibly 6 of which sound like they’re about to draft rookies to be their starter. Two will have Baker or Cousins. Another is likely to be Fields.

Who’s his market?

These are teams that need a new starting QB:

1. Bears, assuming they trade Fields
2. Commanders
3. Patriots
4. Raiders
5. Vikings, if Cousins leaves
6. Steelers
7. Broncos
8. Bucs, if Baker leaves
9. Giants, but likely stuck with Jones for another season
10. Titans, if Levis doesn't pan out, but they will presumably give him another season to see

3 of these teams will end up with Fields, Cousins, and Baker. 3 others will end up with rookies Williams, Maye, and Daniels as early season starters. Jones and Levis could stick, for now, with no changes. That still leaves 2 teams in need, unless they are willing to roll with McCarthy, Nix, or Penix as their presumed starter, which I strongly doubt.

Would Wilson on a vet minimum salary be of interest to the Raiders or Steelers? I would certainly think so.

 

[Anarchy99]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

25% of the league is only 8 teams though. At least 5 and possibly 6 of which sound like they’re about to draft rookies to be their starter. Two will have Baker or Cousins. Another is likely to be Fields.

Who’s his market?

A team that would rather have an 8-time Pro Bowl QB that has won a SB. Not every team will want to draft a rookie (or be able to draft the guy they really want). What benefit does a team have from publicly saying they are interested in him (other than throwing it out there as a diversion from the guy they really want)? A halfway decent team should want to bring in a QB for $1M next year, as it allows for some crazy salary cap flexibility to bring in free agents or free up cap room for future seasons. I suspect there will be several teams in on Wilson . . . even if we may not know who they are right at the moment.

 

[Terpman22]

My only question is will this have a domino effect where the Broncos do a major rebuild and start auctioning players off...

 

[travdogg]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

Those numbers are completely misleading. Wilson's passer rating and comp % were high because the vast majority of his throws were either the first read or checkdowns. His ypr was bottom 1/3 of the league.

Russ couldn't execute the coach's offense any better than Jarrett Stidham could. For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Wilson is elite off-platform and 2-min drill, but his primary weaknesses of below-average ability reading the field/defenses, working through progressions, anticipating throwing lanes, and complete lack of use of the middle of the field meant that for over half the game last year the Broncos offense was completely stifled.

How does that "fall on Payton?"

If your QB is elite at something, and you insist on not doing that, but instead forcing a square peg into a round hole, that falls on the HC in my opinion. I'm not arguing Wilson doesn't have weaknesses, but Payton often just banged his head against the wall and then got upset that he had a headache so to speak.

Russ was a FAR better QB than Stidham. Stidham's starts were the 2nd and 3rd lowest scoring games the Broncos had all season, the only Russ one worse, was the game on the road against the Super Bowl Champs.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

the "new" team no matter who it is doesn't really want to "bail out" DEN from a terrible contract, all teams will want DEN to suffer the consequences so to speak for this upcoming year, so no reason to go huge on a new deal...they are going to want that "free year" basically.....

where Russ signs will mostly be decided by who is willing to give him the most on a new contract that kicks in after next year.....feels like there is going to have to be some give and take from Wilson's camp.....mostly give, because I think most are going to want to see what he has left during this upcoming "free" season....most aren't going to throw any long term money at him until they see the goods....although it would feel like a very Raider or WAS type of move....but don't think they will do it....Russ had the power over DEN but now he doesn't really have the leverage he needs in long term contract discussions....if he is smart he works out the best deal he can with the Steelers....and just accepts it as is what it is for this year and that he is kind of now in that "one year prove it" type of spot...

 

[travdogg]

My only question is will this have a domino effect where the Broncos do a major rebuild and start auctioning players off...

Fully expecting Courtland Sutton (9.7 mil) to be gone, possibly Garrett Bolles (16 mil) as well, and there has been talk of Justin Simmons too (14.5 mil). Jeudy is likely available, and while it would cost a lot, I don't think Surtain is untouchable.

 

[Anarchy99]

the "new" team no matter who it is doesn't really want to "bail out" DEN from a terrible contract, all teams will want DEN to suffer the consequences so to speak for this upcoming year, so no reason to go huge on a new deal...they are going to want that "free year" basically.....

where Russ signs will mostly be decided by who is willing to give him the most on a new contract that kicks in after next year.....feels like there is going to have to be some give and take from Wilson's camp.....mostly give, because I think most are going to want to see what he has left during this upcoming "free" season....most aren't going to throw any long term money at him until they see the goods....although it would feel like a very Raider or WAS type of move....but don't think they will do it....Russ had the power over DEN but now he doesn't really have the leverage he needs in long term contract discussions....if he is smart he works out the best deal he can with the Steelers....and just accepts it as is what it is for this year and that he is kind of now in that "one year prove it" type of spot...

With the huge bump in the salary cap this season and another expected next year, there are 17 teams with a projected $100M+ in cap space for 2025. Having to pay for a veteran signal caller is just the cost of business in today's NFL. I think that there will be some teams that think they are closer to winning than they probable are that would hitch their wagon to Wilson over rolling the dice with a rookie. We'll have to see how it plays out, but getting an experienced QB for a year for $1M has a lot of benefits.

 

[Anarchy99]

My only question is will this have a domino effect where the Broncos do a major rebuild and start auctioning players off...

Fully expecting Courtland Sutton (9.7 mil) to be gone, possibly Garrett Bolles (16 mil) as well, and there has been talk of Justin Simmons too (14.5 mil). Jeudy is likely available, and while it would cost a lot, I don't think Surtain is untouchable.

I get that this season is a salary cap nightmare for DEN, but they are projected to have $105M in cap space next year (don't know how OTC allocated Wilson's cap hit). In general, will teams be as concerned about saving every last dollar against the cap? Do you project free agent contracts will be inflated because so many teams have more money to spend? History has shown when the cap goes up, the top players are the ones that get better contracts, and +/- 90% of the league doesn't really get paid much differently.

 

[travdogg]

My only question is will this have a domino effect where the Broncos do a major rebuild and start auctioning players off...

Fully expecting Courtland Sutton (9.7 mil) to be gone, possibly Garrett Bolles (16 mil) as well, and there has been talk of Justin Simmons too (14.5 mil). Jeudy is likely available, and while it would cost a lot, I don't think Surtain is untouchable.

I get that this season is a salary cap nightmare for DEN, but they are projected to have $105M in cap space next year (don't know how OTC allocated Wilson's cap hit). In general, will teams be as concerned about saving every last dollar against the cap? Do you project free agent contracts will be inflated because so many teams have more money to spend? History has shown when the cap goes up, the top players are the ones that get better contracts, and +/- 90% of the league doesn't really get paid much differently.

I'm thinking those are all trade candidates, where the Broncos can recoup some picks, while getting younger and cheaper, as well as getting "Payton guys"

I'm not sure the overall salary cap increase makes a huge difference in FA, though it might.

 

[Grahamburn]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

25% of the league is only 8 teams though. At least 5 and possibly 6 of which sound like they’re about to draft rookies to be their starter. Two will have Baker or Cousins. Another is likely to be Fields.

Who’s his market?

A team that would rather have an 8-time Pro Bowl QB that has won a SB. Not every team will want to draft a rookie (or be able to draft the guy they really want). What benefit does a team have from publicly saying they are interested in him (other than throwing it out there as a diversion from the guy they really want)? A halfway decent team should want to bring in a QB for $1M next year, as it allows for some crazy salary cap flexibility to bring in free agents or free up cap room for future seasons. I suspect there will be several teams in on Wilson . . . even if we may not know who they are right at the moment.

Is his resume relevant? He hasn’t won a playoff game since 2019. That’s a long time ago in NFL years.

Lot of Russ’ baggage comes with that minimal price tag. I don’t think a halfway decent organization would want anything to do with him.

 

[Stoneworker]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

Those numbers are completely misleading. Wilson's passer rating and comp % were high because the vast majority of his throws were either the first read or checkdowns. His ypr was bottom 1/3 of the league.

Russ couldn't execute the coach's offense any better than Jarrett Stidham could. For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Wilson is elite off-platform and 2-min drill, but his primary weaknesses of below-average ability reading the field/defenses, working through progressions, anticipating throwing lanes, and complete lack of use of the middle of the field meant that for over half the game last year the Broncos offense was completely stifled.

How does that "fall on Payton?"

If your QB is elite at something, and you insist on not doing that, but instead forcing a square peg into a round hole, that falls on the HC in my opinion. I'm not arguing Wilson doesn't have weaknesses, but Payton often just banged his head against the wall and then got upset that he had a headache so to speak.

Russ was a FAR better QB than Stidham. Stidham's starts were the 2nd and 3rd lowest scoring games the Broncos had all season, the only Russ one worse, was the game on the road against the Super Bowl Champs.

The Stidham comparison was used to illustrate that Payton's system requires full use of the field to be successful. Pretty much any system, really.

Let's just stick with it was a bad fit that required a one-year trial period before it became clear enough for Payton to pick a long-term direction.

And IMO you don't start a new regime by building an entire offense (including coaches and personnel) around a 35 y/o's unique and rapidly diminishing skill set if it clearly doesn't fit with your own philosophy.

 

[Statorama]

Stay in shape, wait for a QB on a playoff bound team to go down, and pull a Flacco.

 

[massraider]

Is his resume relevant? He hasn’t won a playoff game since 2019. That’s a long time ago in NFL years.

Lot of Russ’ baggage comes with that minimal price tag. I don’t think a halfway decent organization would want anything to do with him

Yeah, this is all being ignored. You cannot just put his numbers up there, and be like, hey look, prime Tannehill, who wouldn't want that? Because he's been chased out of two cities, by respected coaches who did NOT have a better QB in town.

He's an unlikable, entitled, cringey diva, which coach wants to commit to him for multiple years? I don't think any. If he was someone's 1st choice, we would have heard.

 

[Anarchy99]

He hasn’t won a playoff game since 2019. That’s a long time ago in NFL years.

Neither have Watson or Cousins . . . and guys like Geno, Tua, Carr, Herbert, and Murray haven't won a playoff game at all.

 

[BigJim®]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

 

[Grahamburn]

He hasn’t won a playoff game since 2019. That’s a long time ago in NFL years.

Neither have Watson or Cousins . . . and guys like Geno, Tua, Carr, Herbert, and Murray haven't won a playoff game at all.

I don’t see how that helps a pro-Russ argument.

Who is the desperate team here that is going to cater to him? He has a reputation of needing the carpet rolled out. Something will have to give.

 

[Grahamburn]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

The Vikes are the one team here who I think could be in the running for a Russ experiment if Cousins goes elsewhere.

 

[Tau837]

Him and Payton were a bad fit (which falls on Payton) but honestly, Wilson was a solid QB last season. Dude was:

8th in passer rating
4th in adjusted completion percentage, which is completion %, not counting drops.
Was sacked more than all but 4 QBs, despite being middle of the pack in pressure to sack ratio
Was in the top-10 in TD passes despite being sat the last couple games. Had a 26-8 TD/INT ratio

Not arguing he's anywhere near his peak, where he was an MVP candidate, but he's still absolutely an NFL starter. He'd be an upgrade for at least 25% of the league.

Those numbers are completely misleading. Wilson's passer rating and comp % were high because the vast majority of his throws were either the first read or checkdowns. His ypr was bottom 1/3 of the league.

Russ couldn't execute the coach's offense any better than Jarrett Stidham could. For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Wilson is elite off-platform and 2-min drill, but his primary weaknesses of below-average ability reading the field/defenses, working through progressions, anticipating throwing lanes, and complete lack of use of the middle of the field meant that for over half the game last year the Broncos offense was completely stifled.

How does that "fall on Payton?"

If your QB is elite at something, and you insist on not doing that, but instead forcing a square peg into a round hole, that falls on the HC in my opinion. I'm not arguing Wilson doesn't have weaknesses, but Payton often just banged his head against the wall and then got upset that he had a headache so to speak.

Russ was a FAR better QB than Stidham. Stidham's starts were the 2nd and 3rd lowest scoring games the Broncos had all season, the only Russ one worse, was the game on the road against the Super Bowl Champs.

IMO it was obvious that Payton did not want Wilson. He did not tailor his offense to Wilson's strengths but instead tried to force Wilson into his offense. To Wilson's credit, he actually did a solid job with that.

And this is false:

For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Depth on Wilson's attempts:

• Behind LOS: 92 completions on 104 attempts
• Short (0-9): 140 completions on 170 attempts
• Medium (10-19): 42 completions on 66 attempts
• Deep (20+): 23 completions on 60 attempts

Not sure what you are defining as 'intermediate' but suspect you are regurgitating false talking points.

 

[BigJim®]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

The Vikes are the one team here who I think could be in the running for a Russ experiment if Cousins goes elsewhere.

I hope not. I’m not a fan of what we’ve heard about Wilson, and even less of what I’ve seen on the field these past two seasons. They need better or else pay Cousins.

 

[Stoneworker]

For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Depth on Wilson's attempts:

• Behind LOS: 92 completions on 104 attempts
• Short (0-9): 140 completions on 170 attempts
• Medium (10-19): 42 completions on 66 attempts
• Deep (20+): 23 completions on 60 attempts

Not sure what you are defining as 'intermediate' but suspect you are regurgitating false talking points.

It's intermediate between the numbers. He had plenty of completions outside of them.

Source: Brett Kollmann

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[Stoneworker]

IMO it was obvious that Payton did not want Wilson. He did not tailor his offense to Wilson's strengths but instead tried to force Wilson into his offense. To Wilson's credit, he actually did a solid job with that.

Nope. If "it was obvious Payton did not want Wilson" upon hiring then he would have never invested an entire offseason having him run with the 1's.

Payton would have cut him immediately upon taking the job, found someone else, and not wasted nearly an entire season trying to make it work.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

His QB rating was good last season at 100. Which is only 1 point less than his career average.. And he played 20 rating points better than he did the DEN season before, I would think mostly because of Peyton. So the idea Peyton didn't help him ... he did by a lot statistically.

My opinion .... Pete Carroll was a loosy goosy type coach. Pumped up. Excitable. Forgiving. Freedom for players on and off the field. Completely atypical of a normal NFL coach. Russ left a really good situation in SEA. And now he's playing for NFL coaches that expect execution, attention to detail, and running the offense their way. Russ spent years not doing that and can't adjust on and off the field especially after he's made it, cashed coin, and living celebrity life. His coaches are then frustrated. If I am a coach I'm probably not touching this guy.

 

[travdogg]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

I don't see why not. If the Bears don't feel he's a franchise QB (and they wouldn't trade him if they did) then it doesn't matter where he goes. Its about who would give up the most. The idea that you wouldn't want to help a division rival, even if they offer the most, is loser mentality.

 

[BigJim®]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

I don't see why not. If the Bears don't feel he's a franchise QB (and they wouldn't trade him if they did) then it doesn't matter where he goes. Its about who would give up the most. The idea that you wouldn't want to help a division rival, even if they offer the most, is loser mentality.

I don’t disagree, yet it still does not happen. Bledsoe->Buffalo in 2001 is the only one I remember.

 

[Tau837]

For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Depth on Wilson's attempts:

• Behind LOS: 92 completions on 104 attempts
• Short (0-9): 140 completions on 170 attempts
• Medium (10-19): 42 completions on 66 attempts
• Deep (20+): 23 completions on 60 attempts

Not sure what you are defining as 'intermediate' but suspect you are regurgitating false talking points.

It's intermediate between the hash marks. He had plenty of completions outside of them.

Source: Brett Kollmann

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Not according to PFF. PFF reports Wilson's "Between Numbers" performance as follows:

Behind LOS: 58/66
0-9: 70/85
10-19: 20/29
20+: 6/16

I guess Kollmann must be referencing the 10-19 yards beyond LOS between the hashes numbers. Wilson was 20/29 for 310 yards, 2 TDs, 2 interceptions, with a 98.3 NFL passer rating. That is probably worse than most NFL QBs, but I suspect Wilson's outside the hash performance is better than most.

 

[travdogg]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

I don't see why not. If the Bears don't feel he's a franchise QB (and they wouldn't trade him if they did) then it doesn't matter where he goes. Its about who would give up the most. The idea that you wouldn't want to help a division rival, even if they offer the most, is loser mentality.

I don’t disagree, yet it still does not happen. Bledsoe->Buffalo in 2001 is the only one I remember.

Philly traded McNabb to Washington too. Its rare, but both those guys were a lot more proven than Fields.

 

[BigJim®]

Vikings (although Wilson/Fields wouldn't blow my mind if they can't re-sign Cousins. don't like the 2nd tier of QBs, and can't trade up)

How do you see Vikes acquiring Fields? You think Chicago would trade QB to divisional opponent?

I don't see why not. If the Bears don't feel he's a franchise QB (and they wouldn't trade him if they did) then it doesn't matter where he goes. Its about who would give up the most. The idea that you wouldn't want to help a division rival, even if they offer the most, is loser mentality.

I don’t disagree, yet it still does not happen. Bledsoe->Buffalo in 2001 is the only one I remember.

Philly traded McNabb to Washington too. It’s rare, but both those guys were a lot more proven than Fields.

Bledsoe was more proven but from what I recall McNabb was totally past his prime. Looks like he started 19 games his final 2 seasons with Washington/Minnesota after that trade.

I do sort of get Chicago reluctance to trade a young guy like Fields in division. There’s what you acquire balanced with what you might need to defend to your fans twice annually.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Wilson is no longer the tide that raises all boats....if he ever was.....and brings some baggage/drama/some Forrest Gump mixed with awkward diva/to good to be true/say all the right things but really say nothing at all/I want everybody to love me/I love all my teammates/.....I'll be at the PTA bake sale after practice /but I want my own office/I never get mad like Mahomes/I just chill bruh/ and go along for the lets ride with a terrible 250 million dollar contract extension before I take a snap and an extension that I end up never playing a snap on cause you release me/never any obvious controversy that causes you problems but I don't bond well with my teammates/but I can sometimes be better than 2/3rds of the other QB's in the league....if Pete would have just gave Lynch the ball I'd have 2 SB's and everybody would get out of my grill/I wanted to stay in SEA but then got stuck with Hackett for a year/and then a power trip coach and organization that decided they didn't want me and threatened to bench me after I beat the freakin Chiefs.....

 

[Tau837]

Wilson is no longer the tide that raises all boats....if he ever was.....and brings some baggage/drama/some Forrest Gump mixed with awkward diva/to good to be true/say all the right things but really say nothing at all/I want everybody to love me/I love all my teammates/.....I'll be at the PTA bake sale after practice /but I want my own office/I never get mad like Mahomes/I just chill bruh/ and go along for the lets ride with a terrible 250 million dollar contract extension before I take a snap and an extension that I end up never playing a snap on cause you release me/never any obvious controversy that causes you problems but I don't bond well with my teammates/but I can sometimes be better than 2/3rds of the other QB's in the league....if Pete would have just gave Lynch the ball I'd have 2 SB's and everybody would get out of my grill/I wanted to stay in SEA but then got stuck with Hackett for a year/and then a power trip coach and organization that decided they didn't want me and threatened to bench me after I beat the freakin Chiefs.....

That's quite a diatribe. I still think Wilson will be a week 1 starter in 2024.

 

[Capella]

For the entire season, Wilson had only 18 intermediate-level completions. Stidham had more in just two games.

Depth on Wilson's attempts:

• Behind LOS: 92 completions on 104 attempts
• Short (0-9): 140 completions on 170 attempts
• Medium (10-19): 42 completions on 66 attempts
• Deep (20+): 23 completions on 60 attempts

Not sure what you are defining as 'intermediate' but suspect you are regurgitating false talking points.

It's intermediate between the hash marks. He had plenty of completions outside of them.

Source: Brett Kollmann

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www.reddit.com

Yup. And that’s why Atlanta doesn’t make sense either. The McVay offense they are going to run goes through the middle of the field.

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Broncos Legend Blasts Russell Wilson With Scathing Comment

"Russell Wilson isn’t a leader. The foolishness that went on in his first year at Denver with a private coach, his own office at the facility, and family at training camp when other players didn’t have those privileges, proved his self centeredness,"

 

[JohnnyU]

Who besides me is sick of Wilson?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

still think Wilson will be a week 1 starter in 2024.

Russ will get paid by Denver, so any team can sign him for the veteran minimum and Denver picks up the rest of what he's owed. He will be starting for somebody this year, he's at minimum a cheap bridge for a team that drafts someone they want to sit to start off.

 

[Stoneworker]

Some stats from Sharp Football that underscore Wilson's lack of intermediate passing ability, as well as demonstrate how much of his 2023 completion % and QBR was fool's gold.

- Wilson threw 27% of his passes behind the line of scrimmage (#1 highest out of 509 QBs since 2005)

- Wilson threw 62% of his passes within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage (#2 highest out of 509 QBs since 2005)

- the 2023 Broncos had the least amount of intermediate passing of any offense since 2005

- Wilson threw just 26% of his passes between 5-15 yards downfield (#1 lowest out of 509 QBs since 2005)

- [2023] was nothing but record breaking rates of underneath passes and the occasional moon ball downfield

https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1765153034315706614?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

 

[32 Counter Pass]

The intent of this post is NOT to defend Russ Wilson but...these stats are somewhat misleading.

Payton was calling the plays, not Wilson. Payton likely called a lot of short passes due to his concerns with poor line play. It was also somewhat likely Payton was using the short pass game in place of a very poor run game.

Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

still think Wilson will be a week 1 starter in 2024.

Russ will get paid by Denver, so any team can sign him for the veteran minimum and Denver picks up the rest of what he's owed. He will be starting for somebody this year, he's at minimum a cheap bridge for a team that drafts someone they want to sit to start off.

Or he could not play for 2 years and get the same amount from DEN. Is he gonna really put in 2 full seasons somewhere to make $915K per year? Think about how much work the job is. Working out. Getting hit 10-20 times a game. Studying film. Practices 5x a week. At age 35. Even a temporary condo in the new city would cost more than the $915K he'd make. He will be in the top 5 paid QBs the next 2 seasons if he lays by his pool w Ciara. He has listed both of his homes (in WA and CO) for $61M total. He has another in Rancho Sante Fe. Probably headed there.

 

[Stoneworker]

The intent of this post is NOT to defend Russ Wilson but...these stats are somewhat misleading.

Payton was calling the plays, not Wilson. Payton likely called a lot of short passes due to his concerns with poor line play. It was also somewhat likely Payton was using the short pass game in place of a very poor run game.

Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics.

Nope. It wasn't because "Payton called short passes." It was because Russ had an inability to work through progressions and keep his eyes downfield while stepping up in the pocket like most successful NFL QB's.

Generally speaking, if Wilson's first read wasn't open he would almost immediately go into fire drill mode. And then either launch a moonball, dump underneath, or take off on a scamper.

Russ had more completions to his RB's and TE's combined than to his primary WR's (Sutton, Jeudy, Mims).

That's not because of "play calling" but because of who Wilson chose to throw to once the ball was snapped.

 

[massraider]

I think maybe hiring a coach who isn't trying to adjust his offense to his players was not the easiest path.

And I think Wilson is really an unlikable diva and that matters to team building.

Both can be true. But man, if Wilson helps a team this year, it could look really bad for Payton. If some other lesser coach out there can get a tune out of this little beat up trumpet, and Denver goes backwards, that's gonna look really bad.

 

[massraider]

Or he could not play for 2 years and get the same amount from DEN. Is he gonna really put in 2 full seasons somewhere to make $915K per year? Think about how much work the job is. Working out. Getting hit 10-20 times a game. Studying film. Practices 5x a week. At age 35. Even a temporary condo in the new city would cost more than the $915K he'd make. He will be in the top 5 paid QBs the next 2 seasons if he lays by his pool w Ciara. He has listed both of his homes (in WA and CO) for $61M total. He has another in Rancho Sante Fe. Probably headed there.

Only one year. 39 mill. Denver is done with him after this year.

Best case scenario for Russell is he gets guaranteed money in 2025 from his new team.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Or he could not play for 2 years and get the same amount from DEN. Is he gonna really put in 2 full seasons somewhere to make $915K per year? Think about how much work the job is. Working out. Getting hit 10-20 times a game. Studying film. Practices 5x a week. At age 35. Even a temporary condo in the new city would cost more than the $915K he'd make. He will be in the top 5 paid QBs the next 2 seasons if he lays by his pool w Ciara. He has listed both of his homes (in WA and CO) for $61M total. He has another in Rancho Sante Fe. Probably headed there.

Only one year. 39 mill. Denver is done with him after this year.

Best case scenario for Russell is he gets guaranteed money in 2025 from his new team.

I would say some 2025 $ is very likely. Unless he is seen as somehow too toxic, the inevitable conclusion is someone will have to bid up 25 to win him over other teams.

 

[Tau837]

The intent of this post is NOT to defend Russ Wilson but...these stats are somewhat misleading.

Payton was calling the plays, not Wilson. Payton likely called a lot of short passes due to his concerns with poor line play. It was also somewhat likely Payton was using the short pass game in place of a very poor run game.

Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics.

Nope. It wasn't because "Payton called short passes." It was because Russ had an inability to work through progressions and keep his eyes downfield while stepping up in the pocket like most successful NFL QB's.

Generally speaking, if Wilson's first read wasn't open he would almost immediately go into fire drill mode. And then either launch a moonball, dump underneath, or take off on a scamper.

Russ had more completions to his RB's and TE's combined than to his primary WR's (Sutton, Jeudy, Mims).

That's not because of "play calling" but because of who Wilson chose to throw to once the ball was snapped.

Which is more likely?

1. Wilson has been a starting QB in the league for 12 seasons despite the fact that he can't work through progressions or keep his eyes downfield.
2. Sean Payton didn't tailor his offense to Wilson's strengths.

IMO it is pretty obviously #2.

 

[travdogg]

The intent of this post is NOT to defend Russ Wilson but...these stats are somewhat misleading.

Payton was calling the plays, not Wilson. Payton likely called a lot of short passes due to his concerns with poor line play. It was also somewhat likely Payton was using the short pass game in place of a very poor run game.

Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics.

Nope. It wasn't because "Payton called short passes." It was because Russ had an inability to work through progressions and keep his eyes downfield while stepping up in the pocket like most successful NFL QB's.

Generally speaking, if Wilson's first read wasn't open he would almost immediately go into fire drill mode. And then either launch a moonball, dump underneath, or take off on a scamper.

Russ had more completions to his RB's and TE's combined than to his primary WR's (Sutton, Jeudy, Mims).

That's not because of "play calling" but because of who Wilson chose to throw to once the ball was snapped.

Which is more likely?

1. Wilson has been a starting QB in the league for 12 seasons despite the fact that he can't work through progressions or keep his eyes downfield.
2. Sean Payton didn't tailor his offense to Wilson's strengths.

IMO it is pretty obviously #2.

Would also argue Wilson didn't exactly have quality weapons in Denver either.

Courtland Sutton is an ok #2 WR who sometimes makes spectacular catches, but he's not a #1 since his knee injury several years ago.
Jerry Jeudy hasn't been a bust per se, but he's been disappointing. He's basically a good #3 WR.
Marvin Mims should have played double the snaps he did, even if he is a bit raw as a route runner. He's the only explosive guy they had.
TE was a wasteland. Dulcich might have some talent if he can ever get on the field, but he played 32 snaps this season.
Javonte Williams looked a step slower post knee injury, and probably saw more work than he should have.
Samaje Perine is a quality 3rd down RB.
Jaleel McLaughlin looked explosive, but he also might just be another Philip Lindsay. Still, he deserved more work.

I thought Payton mismanaged the offense all around, but especially with Wilson. With Harbaugh in the division now, I think its gonna be a while before the Broncos finish higher than 3rd.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

The intent of this post is NOT to defend Russ Wilson but...these stats are somewhat misleading.

Payton was calling the plays, not Wilson. Payton likely called a lot of short passes due to his concerns with poor line play. It was also somewhat likely Payton was using the short pass game in place of a very poor run game.

Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics.

Nope. It wasn't because "Payton called short passes." It was because Russ had an inability to work through progressions and keep his eyes downfield while stepping up in the pocket like most successful NFL QB's.

Generally speaking, if Wilson's first read wasn't open he would almost immediately go into fire drill mode. And then either launch a moonball, dump underneath, or take off on a scamper.

Russ had more completions to his RB's and TE's combined than to his primary WR's (Sutton, Jeudy, Mims).

That's not because of "play calling" but because of who Wilson chose to throw to once the ball was snapped.

Which is more likely?

1. Wilson has been a starting QB in the league for 12 seasons despite the fact that he can't work through progressions or keep his eyes downfield.
2. Sean Payton didn't tailor his offense to Wilson's strengths.

IMO it is pretty obviously #2.

I don't think it's the coach's job to completely redo his offense for a QB. Tweak it maybe, but not rebuild it. It's the GMs job to get a QB that fits the coach's schemes (or vice versa). SEA wanted Wilson gone. Both DEN coaches wanted him gone. Payton is 169-105 in his career. Odds are he did tweak it. Wilson is 115-72. Neither are/were bad at what they do. Russell is likely lacking motivation at this point is all I see from the outside. This was a marriage made in hell from the start and the front office is to blame.

 

[Boston]

The intent of this post is NOT to defend Russ Wilson but...these stats are somewhat misleading.

Payton was calling the plays, not Wilson. Payton likely called a lot of short passes due to his concerns with poor line play. It was also somewhat likely Payton was using the short pass game in place of a very poor run game.

Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics.

Nope. It wasn't because "Payton called short passes." It was because Russ had an inability to work through progressions and keep his eyes downfield while stepping up in the pocket like most successful NFL QB's.

Generally speaking, if Wilson's first read wasn't open he would almost immediately go into fire drill mode. And then either launch a moonball, dump underneath, or take off on a scamper.

Russ had more completions to his RB's and TE's combined than to his primary WR's (Sutton, Jeudy, Mims).

That's not because of "play calling" but because of who Wilson chose to throw to once the ball was snapped.

Which is more likely?

1. Wilson has been a starting QB in the league for 12 seasons despite the fact that he can't work through progressions or keep his eyes downfield.
2. Sean Payton didn't tailor his offense to Wilson's strengths.

IMO it is pretty obviously #2.

I don't think it's the coach's job to completely redo his offense for a QB. Tweak it maybe, but not rebuild it. It's the GMs job to get a QB that fits the coach's schemes (or vice versa). SEA wanted Wilson gone. Both DEN coaches wanted him gone. Payton is 169-105 in his career. Odds are he did tweak it. Wilson is 115-72. Neither are/were bad at what they do. Russell is likely lacking motivation at this point is all I see from the outside. This was a marriage made in hell from the start and the front office is to blame.

Yup...it was a bad marriage...I am not a fan of Wilson at all, but Payton also picked his poison when he decided to go to Denver...that horrible contract was not going away.

 

[massraider]

James Palmer

Russell Wilson is now a free agent, so what does his market look like? It's early and things can easily change with free agency and the draft still ahead, but there isn't much of one right now.

 

[BigJim®]

Broncos Legend Blasts Russell Wilson With Scathing Comment

"Russell Wilson isn’t a leader. The foolishness that went on in his first year at Denver with a private coach, his own office at the facility, and family at training camp when other players didn’t have those privileges, proved his self centeredness,"

This is exactly my take on Wilson, and why I want him nowhere near the Vikes locker room.

 

[Bri]

Gerry Dulac on X said there's mutual interest w Steelers and him and they're discussing contract.
THEN
It was presented as more fact finding contract talk than an offer
THEN a rebuttal on that

IDK but there's a lot of smoke there